Re: New Years Resolution.
And I wish people would properly "top post" instead of bottom post. 73 Eugene W2HX From: hp_agilent_equipment@... [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of Dave B Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 7:00 AM To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] New Years Resolution. On 2 Jan 2013 at 4:24, hp_agilent_equipment@...<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> wrote: __________________________________________________________
A New Years Resolution.
Posted by: "Max Robinson" max@...<mailto:max%40maxsmusicplace.com> k4ods
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 8:24 pm ((PST))
I hereby resolve to look at the subject line of every message I send
and change it if necessary.
Regards.
Max. K 4 O DS. Don't worry Max. I just wish some people would remember to trim their replies, and not include 10's of k's of other rubish. It only takes a minute, if that. There again, bet they are just using the creaky group webmail, not a real mail client. Still, you can scroll down and delete all the irelevant stuff in webmail, just as any other editor... Then, anyone stuck on a mobile device get's a fighting chance to read what they sent! Happy New Year, Grump mode still enabled. Dave B.
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Re: New Years Resolution.
On 2 Jan 2013 at 4:24, hp_agilent_equipment@... wrote: ______________________________________________________________________
A New Years Resolution.
Posted by: "Max Robinson" max@... k4ods
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2013 8:24 pm ((PST))
I hereby resolve to look at the subject line of every message I send
and change it if necessary.
Regards.
Max. K 4 O DS. Don't worry Max. I just wish some people would remember to trim their replies, and not include 10's of k's of other rubish. It only takes a minute, if that. There again, bet they are just using the creaky group webmail, not a real mail client. Still, you can scroll down and delete all the irelevant stuff in webmail, just as any other editor... Then, anyone stuck on a mobile device get's a fighting chance to read what they sent! Happy New Year, Grump mode still enabled. Dave B.
|
Can I write *just* the calkit defintions to floppy on a VNA?
The defintions for many HP/Agilent calibration kits can be found on the web at
These can be copied to a floppy and uploaded to my 8720D VNA quite
quicky. I have a need to be able to write the calkit defintions back
to a floppy, so someone else can put them into their VNA. But when I
write them, it saves the instrument state too. I imagine that could
potentially cause a problem if someone had a different VNA.
Hence can I write just the calkit definitions to disk, but not write
the instrument state at the same time?
Does anyone know the format of the binary files containing the calkit
definitions? Although
has definitions for
kits in a text file for easy reading, what you have to download is a
binary. If I knew the file format for the calkit definitions, I could
write a program to generate just the calkit definitions.
BTW, I'd caution anyone to rely too much on the information about what
VNAs support what cal kits on that page. What calkits are in the
firmware of VNAs depends very much on the firmware version. To give
just three examples,
1) According to that page, the 85032B 'N' calibration kit is supposed
to be in the firmware for an 872xD, but the newer 85032F is
unsupported. In my 8720D, the 85032F is in the firmware, but the older
85032B is not.
2) According to that page, the 85033E 3.5 mm calibration kit is not
supported in the 872xD. In fact it is the firmware of my 8720D, which
is quite nice, as I have that kit
3) That page has a file one can download to enable the 872xD to work
with the 85038A 7-16 calibration kit. In fact the 85038A, is the
firmware of my 8720D, so there is no need to download any file. (Not
that I have that kit anyway)
I think in total I have found about 7 differences between what is listed at
and what I actually find in the firmware of my i8720D. Hence before
selecting a calkit based on information at
check your
firmware, as a lot of the information seems to be wrong. This is
because kits were added and dropped with changes in firmware. Since I
have the latest firmware in my 8720D, the newer calibration kits were
added, but unfortunately some of the older ones were removed.
Dave.
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Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
On 2 January 2013 04:13, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote: Dave, Hi Vladan, No need to torture the wife! She totures me enough, with her almost constant moaning! From your posts, I think you are an excellent candidate for the VNA CalKit Manager:.
I am aware of that utility, but unfortunately it is only available on Windows, and the VNA is hooked up to a workstation running Solaris. But I have written my own software which executes under Solaris (and should work on Linux too), which quickly uploads the standard definitions, (C0, C1, Zo, offsets etc) although it can't do the class asignments (S11A=2,8, S11B=1,7 etc). That's not a problem to me, as all the kits I've seen that have just opens, shorts and loads have the same class asignments, so I've never bothered doing anything with them. I've been experimenting designing my own calibration kit, so that is why I have needed the ability to change the standard definitions quickly. Once I get the constants, I can write them into a text file, and upload them. But of course I need to get the constants first. I don't have a collection like the calkit manager, athough I can read them from that on a laptop running Windows, write them to a text file on tthe Solaris worksation, and upload them. This little utility has countless constants for all the currently common standards and it allows you to see what they are, download them to, and upload from your VNA. Also, I will be happy to send you the numbers when I get back to work and see the pictures of your standards. I'll send pictures today. Somewhere on the Agilent web site, I saw a directory that had many, many cal standard definitions. I don't have that bookmarked here, so it will have to wait. I'm aware of that too. Vladan Thank you Vladan. Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@...> wrote:
On 2 January 2013 01:43, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote:
Dave,
The 7mm cal kit was used with the 8753 series and is installed in its firmware. It's not called 11866A, but the open may very well be the same as the one you have. If you post a good close-up picture of your open and short, I will compare them to what I have in the 7mm kit I have. If they look the same, the constants are readily available.
Vladan Thank you, I will do that.
I do have an 8753A here, though it needs repair, as the power switch
will not latch. I'd have to get the wife to hold the power switch in
while I read out the data. At least I assume one can do that in an
8753A - I've never tried ,but it can be done in my 8720D, although I
believe that is a much newer instrument - it is a much higher spec for
sure.
I'll post a picture later today (UK time). I have a decent camera
(Nikon D3, with true 35 mm sensor), with a real macro lens, so getting
a decent picture will not be hard.
Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@> wrote:
On 2 January 2013 00:46, pianovt <pianovt@> wrote:
I had seen that thread. Though I could not get any more information,
and the question about the BASIC program never got answered.
It would be interesting to get a dimensioned drawing of the bit which
pushes the collect flat on a modern open. My guess would be that it is
as small as possible, using a low-dielectric constant material.
I guess the other approach might be to just buy the open from Agilent,
and "upgrade" the kit to a late model, which will be supported by the
VNA.
I put the load from that kit on a high quality N-> APC-7 adapter, and
to at least 6 GHz (the limit of my N calibration kit), the load is
very good, despite being rated at just 2 GHz. But getting a 909F (18
GHz load), is not too hard. There are plenty of them on eBay.
APC-7 is not that important to me, but since I do have the cal kit,
getting it to work well would be a bonus.
One possibility for APC-7 might be to model it in HFSS, EMPro or similar.
Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@> wrote:
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
HP 8590A fails 2 Calibration Routines
My newly acquired HP8590A S/N 2618A01105 seems to work ok but it fails Cal Freq and the Cal Ampltd calibration routines. When these run per the Operating Manual I get the following errors:
Cal: Span Sens Fail SRQ 110
Cal: Linear Det Fail SRQ 110
If I understand the Service Manual correctly it appears that the Calibration Data is possibly bad. How do I find good Calibration Data for my unit and how do I best enter it... This is such a fine piece of equipment I hate to give up on it. Any points in the right direction will be helpful.
Steve
|
I hereby resolve to look at the subject line of every message I send and change it if necessary.
Regards.
Max. K 4 O DS.
Email: max@...
Transistor site
Vacuum tube site:
Woodworking site
Music site:
To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
funwithtransistors-subscribe@...
To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
funwithtubes-subscribe@...
To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
funwithwood-subscribe@...
|
Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
Dave,
No need to torture the wife! From your posts, I think you are an excellent candidate for the VNA CalKit Manager:
This little utility has countless constants for all the currently common standards and it allows you to see what they are, download them to, and upload from your VNA. Also, I will be happy to send you the numbers when I get back to work and see the pictures of your standards.
Somewhere on the Agilent web site, I saw a directory that had many, many cal standard definitions. I don't have that bookmarked here, so it will have to wait.
Vladan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@...> wrote:
On 2 January 2013 01:43, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote:
Dave,
The 7mm cal kit was used with the 8753 series and is installed in its firmware. It's not called 11866A, but the open may very well be the same as the one you have. If you post a good close-up picture of your open and short, I will compare them to what I have in the 7mm kit I have. If they look the same, the constants are readily available.
Vladan Thank you, I will do that.
I do have an 8753A here, though it needs repair, as the power switch
will not latch. I'd have to get the wife to hold the power switch in
while I read out the data. At least I assume one can do that in an
8753A - I've never tried ,but it can be done in my 8720D, although I
believe that is a much newer instrument - it is a much higher spec for
sure.
I'll post a picture later today (UK time). I have a decent camera
(Nikon D3, with true 35 mm sensor), with a real macro lens, so getting
a decent picture will not be hard.
Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@> wrote:
On 2 January 2013 00:46, pianovt <pianovt@> wrote:
I had seen that thread. Though I could not get any more information,
and the question about the BASIC program never got answered.
It would be interesting to get a dimensioned drawing of the bit which
pushes the collect flat on a modern open. My guess would be that it is
as small as possible, using a low-dielectric constant material.
I guess the other approach might be to just buy the open from Agilent,
and "upgrade" the kit to a late model, which will be supported by the
VNA.
I put the load from that kit on a high quality N-> APC-7 adapter, and
to at least 6 GHz (the limit of my N calibration kit), the load is
very good, despite being rated at just 2 GHz. But getting a 909F (18
GHz load), is not too hard. There are plenty of them on eBay.
APC-7 is not that important to me, but since I do have the cal kit,
getting it to work well would be a bonus.
One possibility for APC-7 might be to model it in HFSS, EMPro or similar.
Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@> wrote:
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
On 2 January 2013 01:43, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote: Dave,
The 7mm cal kit was used with the 8753 series and is installed in its firmware. It's not called 11866A, but the open may very well be the same as the one you have. If you post a good close-up picture of your open and short, I will compare them to what I have in the 7mm kit I have. If they look the same, the constants are readily available.
Vladan Thank you, I will do that. I do have an 8753A here, though it needs repair, as the power switch will not latch. I'd have to get the wife to hold the power switch in while I read out the data. At least I assume one can do that in an 8753A - I've never tried ,but it can be done in my 8720D, although I believe that is a much newer instrument - it is a much higher spec for sure. I'll post a picture later today (UK time). I have a decent camera (Nikon D3, with true 35 mm sensor), with a real macro lens, so getting a decent picture will not be hard. Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@...> wrote:
On 2 January 2013 00:46, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote:
I had seen that thread. Though I could not get any more information,
and the question about the BASIC program never got answered.
It would be interesting to get a dimensioned drawing of the bit which
pushes the collect flat on a modern open. My guess would be that it is
as small as possible, using a low-dielectric constant material.
I guess the other approach might be to just buy the open from Agilent,
and "upgrade" the kit to a late model, which will be supported by the
VNA.
I put the load from that kit on a high quality N-> APC-7 adapter, and
to at least 6 GHz (the limit of my N calibration kit), the load is
very good, despite being rated at just 2 GHz. But getting a 909F (18
GHz load), is not too hard. There are plenty of them on eBay.
APC-7 is not that important to me, but since I do have the cal kit,
getting it to work well would be a bonus.
One possibility for APC-7 might be to model it in HFSS, EMPro or similar.
Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@> wrote:
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
Dave,
The 7mm cal kit was used with the 8753 series and is installed in its firmware. It's not called 11866A, but the open may very well be the same as the one you have. If you post a good close-up picture of your open and short, I will compare them to what I have in the 7mm kit I have. If they look the same, the constants are readily available.
Vladan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@...> wrote:
On 2 January 2013 00:46, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote:
I had seen that thread. Though I could not get any more information,
and the question about the BASIC program never got answered.
It would be interesting to get a dimensioned drawing of the bit which
pushes the collect flat on a modern open. My guess would be that it is
as small as possible, using a low-dielectric constant material.
I guess the other approach might be to just buy the open from Agilent,
and "upgrade" the kit to a late model, which will be supported by the
VNA.
I put the load from that kit on a high quality N-> APC-7 adapter, and
to at least 6 GHz (the limit of my N calibration kit), the load is
very good, despite being rated at just 2 GHz. But getting a 909F (18
GHz load), is not too hard. There are plenty of them on eBay.
APC-7 is not that important to me, but since I do have the cal kit,
getting it to work well would be a bonus.
One possibility for APC-7 might be to model it in HFSS, EMPro or similar.
Dave
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@> wrote:
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
On 2 January 2013 00:46, pianovt <pianovt@...> wrote: I had seen that thread. Though I could not get any more information, and the question about the BASIC program never got answered. It would be interesting to get a dimensioned drawing of the bit which pushes the collect flat on a modern open. My guess would be that it is as small as possible, using a low-dielectric constant material. I guess the other approach might be to just buy the open from Agilent, and "upgrade" the kit to a late model, which will be supported by the VNA. I put the load from that kit on a high quality N-> APC-7 adapter, and to at least 6 GHz (the limit of my N calibration kit), the load is very good, despite being rated at just 2 GHz. But getting a 909F (18 GHz load), is not too hard. There are plenty of them on eBay. APC-7 is not that important to me, but since I do have the cal kit, getting it to work well would be a bonus. One possibility for APC-7 might be to model it in HFSS, EMPro or similar. Dave --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@...> wrote:
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Hi again,
I have a new lead... I have found an IC which gets very hot and it is connected to one of the quad-transistor driver which manage the attenuators. It seems that the problem is on the quad-transistor IC (a 1858-0086 which crosses to MPQ6700). Guess what?. It manages the 0dB settings on AT2 and AT3... interesting, right ;-)?
Now it is late here (2:15AM local time), so I will go bed... but tomorrow I will check which IC is faulty and look for some spares.
The circle is closing :-)!!!
JOSE
--
73 EB5AGV - JOSE V. GAVILA - IM99sm La Canyada - Valencia(SPAIN)
AGVradio
Personal WEB
|
Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
On 2 January 2013 00:26, J. Forster <jfor@...> wrote: You might be better off sending it to somebody on list to actually measure
it.
FWIW,
- John Thank you John. That is no easy task for someone though. Sepparating the offset (in ps) from the 4 constants in the polynomial descriibing the capacitance is tricky. Dave.
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
|
Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., David Kirkby <david.kirkby@...> wrote:
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
|
Joe, Steve and everyone else,
Looking at the memory chip U511 which is a TC5517APL it would appear the standby voltage can be from 2.0 volts up to 5.5 volts with a current draw of around 0.005ua for this low power version. So based on this you really have to start to stress out when the battery is around 2.5 volts or so, of course don't quote me on that one. It also would appear that the memory retention is at more risk from the battery just becoming old then the draw from the chip.
In any event a 3.0 or 3.6 volt battery appears to be just fine based on the chip specs. I'm not seeing anything else in the circuit that would make me think otherwise.
Thanks,
Jeff
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/1/2013 4:48 PM, Steve Krull wrote:
Joe,
The SN of my 3457A is 2703A. It is possible that the main controller,
since it appears to be a mix of old resistor values and battery but new
battery location, may have been replaced as an intermediate level
upgrade and thus the mismatch between the SN prefix and the ERC on the
controller board. We did upgrades like that in the cal labs sometimes
but never updated the SN prefix. I don't remember that being a step in
any upgrade but if it was we wouldn't have done it as that would have
thrown the military bean counters into an absolute tizzy. It may also be
that mine is a product of a tech's solution to two bad meters - take the
working parts and make one good unit.
Steve
On 1/1/2013 5:34 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Steve,
That was me. Thanks.
BTW, what is the SN of your 3457A? 2749A? I am suspicious that the ERC
code reflects the prefix of the serial number. On my board, 2703 appears
and my serial number is 2703A.....
Thanks.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Krull
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 5:14 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Forgot to add to my last post - I thought someone asked about Option
700. Option 700 adds CIIL language support.
Steve
On 1/1/2013 4:57 PM, Jeff Machesky wrote:
Hmm, I also just noticed I was looking at one of the newer revision
circuits. The designs look the same however. I also see where NVVCC
goes. One could almost supplement this with a thin film solar cell. Then
again a new battery will outlast most individuals interest in the device.
Jeff
On 1/1/2013 2:07 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Steve, Jeff, and all,
According to the manual, the 'New Main Controller' was installed
starting at
SN 2538A02954 and later. The Assembly Number, 03457-665xx, etc., is
under
the power transformer and difficult to see but there. Also,
regarding the
'new' battery and 'new' resistors, the manual states 'the new
parts are
on
assembly A11, ERC no. 2850 and greater' which I interpret to mean SN
2850Axxxxx and greater.
The 'New Main Controller' is easy to identify by just looking at
where
the
battery is located. Looking from the front of the meter, with the top
cover
off and the 'shield' over the main controller off, the 'old'
controller had
the battery to the left side of the board, near the left side of the
meter,
about half way back from the front while the 'new' main
controller has
the
battery on the right side of the board, near the center of the meter,
about
one fourth of the way back from the front.
So, if I am correct, my SAFT LX-1634 3.0 V battery represents the
'old' 2.9
volt battery although my battery does not state what the chemistry
of the
battery is. Therefore, if I can find an exact replacement of the
battery,
chemistry and all, I would prefer to just replace the battery
rather than
place a new battery and resistors.
Also, the PCB is manufactured so as to provide mounting for a battery
with
one positive and one negative pin as well as a battery with one
positive and
two negative pins. Therefore, there may be some other options.
Has anyone found any information specifically about the SAFT LX-1634
battery?
Interestingly, the same SAFT LX-1634 battery is used in the 3478A. I
replaced the 3478A battery with a BR-2/3A several months ago with no
detectable problems so far but the battery backup circuitry is much
simpler
than the 3457A. Also, of note, the BR-2/3A reads 3.397 VDC.
As best I can tell, the only role for R644 and R645 is during the
Power
On
Reset and the Low Power Reset. It would appear that the Low Power
Reset
is
the only issue of concern. The 'old' components set a level of
about 2.99
VDC at the + input of U636A while the 'new' components set a level of
about
3.46 VDC at the + input of U636A when the UNREG +5 VDC supply drops
to 7
VDC. If no changes in resistors were made, the same 3.46 VDC would
occur
when the UNREG +5 VDC supply dropped to about 8.1 VDC. I measure
11.18
VDC
on my UNREG +5 VDC supply.
Therefore, I can't see a compelling reason to change the
resistors. The
Power On Reset is released later and the Low Power Reset is applied
earlier
if all you do is replace the SAFT LX-1634 with a BR-2/3A. Would
this be a
problem? Am I missing something?
Thanks for all the help in 2012 and Happy 2013.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 7:34 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Joe and all,
I will pop the covers off mine again and have a look at the A1 board
revision number and resistor values. Regarding battery voltage, I
noticed a
couple of web sites state that their lithium batteries are "3.6 v
nominal,
3.4 volt operating" I assume that's at their rated current so HP
may have
been stating operating voltage. I can't imagine that maintaining cal
constants would draw much current though.
Steve
On Dec 31, 2012, at 6:25 PM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@...
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net> > wrote:
Steve, Jeff, and all,
My 2703Axxxxx 3457A also has the SAFT LX 1634, Lithium 3.0V,
battery and
it
measures 3.032 VDC. Likewise, I can not see a date code on the
battery,
even after removing the A1 Board and looking as far under the
battery as
possible.
My A1 Board is 03457-665xx, REV A, 2703. According to the manual, this is
the 'New Main Controller'. However, on my board, A11R644 is a 17.4 K
resistor and A11R645 is a 13 K resistor which represents the 'old' resistors
and matches the schematic. The 'new' resistors would be 13 K and
12.7 K
respectively, according to the parts list and 'Changes'. The 'old' battery
is listed as a 'Battery 2.9V .9A-HR Li/S-Diox W-Flex', according
to the
Agilent website. Likewise, the Agilent website lists the 'new' battery as
a
'Battery 3V 1.2A-HR Lithium Poly Carbon'. Only the manual parts list lists
the 'new' battery as 3.4 V.
In addition, I don't think I have ever seen a 3.4 V Lithium battery.
So, the question is, when it comes time to replace the battery, what should
be used?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve
Krull
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:20 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Joe and all,
I just had a quick look inside my 3457A again. Mine has the 3.0 volt
lithium battery, SAFT LX-1634. Obsolete at Agilent, as is the newer
battery. Google was no help either. Mine measures 3.03 volts and there's
no evidence of corrosion so that's good. I couldn't see a date
code on
it; probably on the underneath side. I've replaced batteries by
paralleling the existing connections with an appropriate power
supply
and then unsoldering the old battery with an isolated-tip iron and
soldering in the new battery. I've also carefully soldered a new battery
in parallel with the old and then clipped out the old one. No
problems
with lost data so far.
I'm not sure how the cal numbers increment. I'll have to experiment with
that sometime. Right now I need to repair the 1349D display in my
8757A
so I can get on with a sweeper plug in project, so the
volt-nuttery is
on hold for awhile.
Happy New Year to all!
Steve
On 12/30/2012 5:34 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Steve,
Thanks for the data. Mine is also 2703A prefix with REV?:6,0 and
CALNUM?:98. Not a multiple of 34. Would be interesting to see
what the
CALNUM increments by after an Agilent CAL.
I, too, need to look at the battery condition. I have not looked
at the
manual regarding replacing the battery. Has anyone done that
without
losing
the CAL Constants?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:14 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
It would be interesting to see if a newer rev is out there. My
3457A
is s.n.
prefix 2703, with rev 6,0 and option 0, CALNUM=34. I wonder if
that's a
default number for anything less than a full cal at Agilent?
The last
calibration was at least 6 years ago and performed by what was then
Boeing
Military Airplane Company's metrology lab. I need to open it up and
check
the battery condition.
Steve
On Dec 29, 2012, at 8:08 PM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@...
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net> > wrote:
If the 'SELF TEST OK' message appears, there is no need to
make any
'adjustments'. Just do the 'front panel CAL' if needed.
As I said, I would check it out, assume it is the best
instrument in
your
collection, send it to Agilent for CAL and see what you get.
I would appreciate knowing what 'REV?' and 'OPT?' says when you
get a
chance. 'CALNUM?' would be interesting as well.
In the 3458A, the firmware is in an EPROM (6 EPROM's for the older units)
and can be removed, a socket placed, and easily upgraded by purchasing the
latest pre-programmed EPROM (or EPROM's for the older units) from Agilent.
The only problem is they have a $50 minimum for this $18 part
for the
later
units.
My wife thinks I am going to appear on an episode of 'Hoarders'.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jeff
Machesky
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:01 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Wow, lots of replies all of a sudden. I'm already prepping the
wife
for
the $200 + price tag of calibration. Funny how when I was single I would
have about $800 in cash in my wallet at all times and now I beg
for 20
bucks, Hmm. Sad part is I make about 4 times the money. In any
event
I've not received to much feedback on the "Self Test OK"
message the
seller had posted. Any comments? I'm too much of a skeptic when it comes
to eBay purchases. It's just a convenient place to purchase such
goods.
Any feedback would be appreciated as to possible pitfalls
regarding
this
device. I like to prep for issues rather then build myself up for
failure. What do they say...it's better to be pleasantly surprised
then
let down.
Thanks,
Jeff
On 12/29/2012 5:40 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
According to the manual, there are only two 'adjustments'
that can
be
made
on a 3457A, Input Offset Amplifier adjustment and AC Converter
Frequency
Response, both needed only if there is a 'HARDWARE ERR' failure
message
after 'TEST' is selected and then only if it is a specific
'AUXERR' or
16 or
256 is seen. Otherwise, all the calibrations are done from the
front
panel
with specific inputs from the front panel.
The CALNUM? is incremented by 'several digits' with a 'complete
calibration', one for each calibration point entered, per the
manual.
Interestingly, when I sent my two 3458A's to Agilent for
calibration,
the
CALNUM incremented by only 1. However, when I calibrated one
of them
before
sending it to Agilent, (since I lost the data in the DALLAS
CALRAM
chip that
I was removing) the CALNUM went from 1 to something like 34 or
something. I
don't recall. It seems that if you have the appropriate
software to
run the
complete calibration protocol, it only increments by '1'
instead of
by
all
the data points entered. Such software exists for the 3457A but I
have
never seen it available 'on theBay'. I suspect Agilent would have
that
software and equipment to do that calibration and, thus, an
Agilent
calibration may only increment the CALNUM? by 1.
When getting an Agilent calibration of the 3458A, you get 'As
Received' and
'As Completed' data. Very helpful to me in that the only two
points
my
'House CAL' of the one 3458A failed were the two 'midrange' AC
Voltage
values. All else 'PASSED'.
I agree with Dave. If it's HP/Agilent, I prefer Agilent to do the
CAL.
If
it's Solartron, I prefer AMETEK (Solartron), etc.
I believe that having some 'basic' professionally calibrated
instruments
(DMM's, Noise Sources, Power Sensors, Frequency Standards (unless
you
have a
GPSDO, CS Standard, etc.) etc.), that you can then use as
'transfer
standards' to do your own 'in house' calibration of other
instruments,
is
very important if you want to set up a reliable workshop.
Of course, you will also need a 'stable' source of the various
signals
that
you will use to be 'measured' by the various 'DUT's', such as
resistance,
voltage, current, frequency, etc. The 3458A is relatively easy to
calibrate, requiring only 10.000000 VDC, 10000.000 ohms, and
some AC
voltage
at various frequencies, IIRC. I have never CAL'd a 3457A but the
3478A
is a
multi-step process.
This whole thing can become very 'addictive'. Be careful.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
David
Kirkby
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:53 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
On 29 December 2012 20:01, Jeff Machesky <jeff@...
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com> > wrote:
Thanks Dave, I actually have watched those videos. Bit drawn
out
like
most of his videos..but still good. Too much detail is not
always
a
bad
thing. I thought the bit showing the noise on the DVM was a bit silly
when
it
was connected to a DC power supply.
As for the 3457A, if it works I plan on getting it calibrated by
Agilent
within the year. From what I understand it's about a $200 US
investment.
The meter was last calibrated in '98, so I'll be curious to see
how
accurate it is when I get it. I think the calibration service you chose might dictate
whether you
get data about the condition when sent.
When I send mine in for cal, I'd like to know what was out and by
how
much. But I'm not going to pay extra for a calibration service
that
provides that. As far as I'm concerned, if Agilent calibrate it,
then
it is OK. For me personally, it makes no difference whatsoever
if it
has ISO, NIST or whatever calibration. But I'd prefer Agilent to
someone else.
I have calibration certificate here for an Agilent VNA
calibration
kit. It was done by a calibration house in the USA. But from
what I
can gather from reading the documentation, the equipment to
calibrate
them is not available commerically. So it makes me wonder how
a lab
can calibrate a cal kit, when the equipment to do it can't be
bought.
I suspect there is a fairly cosy realationship between some test
equipment dealers and calibration facilities.
I plan on purchasing some
voltage references from the well known site as a basic test
of the
3457A. I may even calibrate it based on those references if it's
way
out
and later getting it NIST traceable calibrated. I don't know if there are pots in there you can adjust with a
trimmer,
or if it is all done electronically. You might find it is
impossible
to calibrate yourself.
I never had any reason to look inside mine.
Dave
------------------------------------
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|
Hello Joe, I guess I am confused. It would appear that the signal has to get through
the 60 dB attenuator before it gets to the 80 dB attenuator.
Does that mean that when the 0 dB setting is chosen, a 'pad' of the 60 dB
attenuator is selected? It may be that the ALC handles levels from, say, +3
dBm and above and to get to 0 dBm output, you select an ALC setting of +5
dBm and a 5 dB attenuator setting from the 60 dB attenuator. If so, then
there should be an output at frequencies above and below 130 MHz at settings
above +3 dBm (or whatever). If so, that would be definitive proof of a bad
60 dB attenuator. I would verify the control inputs to the attenuator as
well as power to the controller. It also may be that you dial in 60 db of
attenuation with any step and take the level below the ability of your
measuring equipment. At -60 dBm, you would likely need a measuring receiver
of a spectrum analyzer to see it. Or perhaps a standard VHF receiver set to
around 130 MHz. Well, when the Service Sheet 8, page 8 test is done,, you have 9 options to choose. On option 0, 0dB is selected on AT2 (60dB unit) and 0dB is selected on AT3 (80 dB unit). There is NO output on that setting. But then, option 1 selects nothing on AT2 but 20dB on AT3 (I think thre should be a by-pass inside the AT2 module). And there is signal at the output (*). As there is on 2, 3 and 4 options, which select 40, 60 and 80dB from AT3. But then option 5 is for 10dB on AT2 and nothing on AT3. And there is no signal, nor in 6, 7 and 8 options, which select other attenuations on AT2. As this is a test, it seems to me that the signal which enters the attenuators is constant, so I should be able to see it at the AT2 settings (I am using a Tek 2465B to check generator output, which can show pretty low signals in the mV range) I am now checking control signals and there is something wrong, but my guessing (I need to check) is that the problem is with the load presented by some inputs of the AT2 unit (some internal diode may be bad) I have checked with frequencies from 1MHz to about 700MHz, and behaviour is the same, so it seems that the first suspect is the 60dB attenuator. Regards, JOSE (*) yes, 80dB setting is not visible on the Tek, I am guessing signal is there. -- 73 EB5AGV - JOSE V. GAVILA - IM99sm La Canyada - Valencia(SPAIN) AGVradio Personal WEB
|
On Tue, 01 Jan 2013 17:13:35 -0600, you wrote: Forgot to add to my last post - I thought someone asked about Option
700. Option 700 adds CIIL language support. Shades of MATE. Wonder how that ever turned out. Harvey
Steve
On 1/1/2013 4:57 PM, Jeff Machesky wrote:
Hmm, I also just noticed I was looking at one of the newer revision
circuits. The designs look the same however. I also see where NVVCC
goes. One could almost supplement this with a thin film solar cell. Then
again a new battery will outlast most individuals interest in the device.
Jeff
On 1/1/2013 2:07 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Steve, Jeff, and all,
According to the manual, the 'New Main Controller' was installed
starting at
SN 2538A02954 and later. The Assembly Number, 03457-665xx, etc., is under
the power transformer and difficult to see but there. Also, regarding the
'new' battery and 'new' resistors, the manual states 'the new parts are on
assembly A11, ERC no. 2850 and greater' which I interpret to mean SN
2850Axxxxx and greater.
The 'New Main Controller' is easy to identify by just looking at where the
battery is located. Looking from the front of the meter, with the top
cover
off and the 'shield' over the main controller off, the 'old'
controller had
the battery to the left side of the board, near the left side of the
meter,
about half way back from the front while the 'new' main controller has the
battery on the right side of the board, near the center of the meter,
about
one fourth of the way back from the front.
So, if I am correct, my SAFT LX-1634 3.0 V battery represents the
'old' 2.9
volt battery although my battery does not state what the chemistry of the
battery is. Therefore, if I can find an exact replacement of the battery,
chemistry and all, I would prefer to just replace the battery rather than
place a new battery and resistors.
Also, the PCB is manufactured so as to provide mounting for a battery with
one positive and one negative pin as well as a battery with one
positive and
two negative pins. Therefore, there may be some other options.
Has anyone found any information specifically about the SAFT LX-1634
battery?
Interestingly, the same SAFT LX-1634 battery is used in the 3478A. I
replaced the 3478A battery with a BR-2/3A several months ago with no
detectable problems so far but the battery backup circuitry is much
simpler
than the 3457A. Also, of note, the BR-2/3A reads 3.397 VDC.
As best I can tell, the only role for R644 and R645 is during the Power On
Reset and the Low Power Reset. It would appear that the Low Power Reset is
the only issue of concern. The 'old' components set a level of about 2.99
VDC at the + input of U636A while the 'new' components set a level of
about
3.46 VDC at the + input of U636A when the UNREG +5 VDC supply drops to 7
VDC. If no changes in resistors were made, the same 3.46 VDC would occur
when the UNREG +5 VDC supply dropped to about 8.1 VDC. I measure 11.18 VDC
on my UNREG +5 VDC supply.
Therefore, I can't see a compelling reason to change the resistors. The
Power On Reset is released later and the Low Power Reset is applied
earlier
if all you do is replace the SAFT LX-1634 with a BR-2/3A. Would this be a
problem? Am I missing something?
Thanks for all the help in 2012 and Happy 2013.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 7:34 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Joe and all,
I will pop the covers off mine again and have a look at the A1 board
revision number and resistor values. Regarding battery voltage, I
noticed a
couple of web sites state that their lithium batteries are "3.6 v nominal,
3.4 volt operating" I assume that's at their rated current so HP may have
been stating operating voltage. I can't imagine that maintaining cal
constants would draw much current though.
Steve
On Dec 31, 2012, at 6:25 PM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@...
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net> > wrote:
Steve, Jeff, and all,
My 2703Axxxxx 3457A also has the SAFT LX 1634, Lithium 3.0V, battery and it
measures 3.032 VDC. Likewise, I can not see a date code on the battery,
even after removing the A1 Board and looking as far under the battery as
possible.
My A1 Board is 03457-665xx, REV A, 2703. According to the manual, this is
the 'New Main Controller'. However, on my board, A11R644 is a 17.4 K
resistor and A11R645 is a 13 K resistor which represents the 'old' resistors
and matches the schematic. The 'new' resistors would be 13 K and 12.7 K
respectively, according to the parts list and 'Changes'. The 'old' battery
is listed as a 'Battery 2.9V .9A-HR Li/S-Diox W-Flex', according to the
Agilent website. Likewise, the Agilent website lists the 'new' battery as
a
'Battery 3V 1.2A-HR Lithium Poly Carbon'. Only the manual parts list lists
the 'new' battery as 3.4 V.
In addition, I don't think I have ever seen a 3.4 V Lithium battery.
So, the question is, when it comes time to replace the battery, what should
be used?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Krull
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:20 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Joe and all,
I just had a quick look inside my 3457A again. Mine has the 3.0 volt
lithium battery, SAFT LX-1634. Obsolete at Agilent, as is the newer
battery. Google was no help either. Mine measures 3.03 volts and there's
no evidence of corrosion so that's good. I couldn't see a date code on
it; probably on the underneath side. I've replaced batteries by
paralleling the existing connections with an appropriate power supply
and then unsoldering the old battery with an isolated-tip iron and
soldering in the new battery. I've also carefully soldered a new battery
in parallel with the old and then clipped out the old one. No problems
with lost data so far.
I'm not sure how the cal numbers increment. I'll have to experiment with
that sometime. Right now I need to repair the 1349D display in my 8757A
so I can get on with a sweeper plug in project, so the volt-nuttery is
on hold for awhile.
Happy New Year to all!
Steve
On 12/30/2012 5:34 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Steve,
Thanks for the data. Mine is also 2703A prefix with REV?:6,0 and
CALNUM?:98. Not a multiple of 34. Would be interesting to see what the
CALNUM increments by after an Agilent CAL.
I, too, need to look at the battery condition. I have not looked at the
manual regarding replacing the battery. Has anyone done that without
losing
the CAL Constants?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:14 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
It would be interesting to see if a newer rev is out there. My 3457A
is s.n.
prefix 2703, with rev 6,0 and option 0, CALNUM=34. I wonder if that's a
default number for anything less than a full cal at Agilent? The last
calibration was at least 6 years ago and performed by what was then
Boeing
Military Airplane Company's metrology lab. I need to open it up and
check
the battery condition.
Steve
On Dec 29, 2012, at 8:08 PM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@...
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net>
<mailto:jltran%40att.net> > wrote:
If the 'SELF TEST OK' message appears, there is no need to make any
'adjustments'. Just do the 'front panel CAL' if needed.
As I said, I would check it out, assume it is the best instrument in
your
collection, send it to Agilent for CAL and see what you get.
I would appreciate knowing what 'REV?' and 'OPT?' says when you
get a
chance. 'CALNUM?' would be interesting as well.
In the 3458A, the firmware is in an EPROM (6 EPROM's for the older units)
and can be removed, a socket placed, and easily upgraded by purchasing the
latest pre-programmed EPROM (or EPROM's for the older units) from Agilent.
The only problem is they have a $50 minimum for this $18 part
for the
later
units.
My wife thinks I am going to appear on an episode of 'Hoarders'.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jeff
Machesky
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:01 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
Wow, lots of replies all of a sudden. I'm already prepping the wife for
the $200 + price tag of calibration. Funny how when I was single I would
have about $800 in cash in my wallet at all times and now I beg
for 20
bucks, Hmm. Sad part is I make about 4 times the money. In any event
I've not received to much feedback on the "Self Test OK" message the
seller had posted. Any comments? I'm too much of a skeptic when it comes
to eBay purchases. It's just a convenient place to purchase such
goods.
Any feedback would be appreciated as to possible pitfalls regarding this
device. I like to prep for issues rather then build myself up for
failure. What do they say...it's better to be pleasantly surprised
then
let down.
Thanks,
Jeff
On 12/29/2012 5:40 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
According to the manual, there are only two 'adjustments' that can
be
made
on a 3457A, Input Offset Amplifier adjustment and AC Converter
Frequency
Response, both needed only if there is a 'HARDWARE ERR' failure
message
after 'TEST' is selected and then only if it is a specific
'AUXERR' or
16 or
256 is seen. Otherwise, all the calibrations are done from the
front
panel
with specific inputs from the front panel.
The CALNUM? is incremented by 'several digits' with a 'complete
calibration', one for each calibration point entered, per the
manual.
Interestingly, when I sent my two 3458A's to Agilent for
calibration,
the
CALNUM incremented by only 1. However, when I calibrated one
of them
before
sending it to Agilent, (since I lost the data in the DALLAS CALRAM
chip that
I was removing) the CALNUM went from 1 to something like 34 or
something. I
don't recall. It seems that if you have the appropriate
software to
run the
complete calibration protocol, it only increments by '1'
instead of
by
all
the data points entered. Such software exists for the 3457A but I
have
never seen it available 'on theBay'. I suspect Agilent would have
that
software and equipment to do that calibration and, thus, an
Agilent
calibration may only increment the CALNUM? by 1.
When getting an Agilent calibration of the 3458A, you get 'As
Received' and
'As Completed' data. Very helpful to me in that the only two
points
my
'House CAL' of the one 3458A failed were the two 'midrange' AC
Voltage
values. All else 'PASSED'.
I agree with Dave. If it's HP/Agilent, I prefer Agilent to do the
CAL.
If
it's Solartron, I prefer AMETEK (Solartron), etc.
I believe that having some 'basic' professionally calibrated
instruments
(DMM's, Noise Sources, Power Sensors, Frequency Standards (unless
you
have a
GPSDO, CS Standard, etc.) etc.), that you can then use as
'transfer
standards' to do your own 'in house' calibration of other
instruments,
is
very important if you want to set up a reliable workshop.
Of course, you will also need a 'stable' source of the various
signals
that
you will use to be 'measured' by the various 'DUT's', such as
resistance,
voltage, current, frequency, etc. The 3458A is relatively easy to
calibrate, requiring only 10.000000 VDC, 10000.000 ohms, and
some AC
voltage
at various frequencies, IIRC. I have never CAL'd a 3457A but the
3478A
is a
multi-step process.
This whole thing can become very 'addictive'. Be careful.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
David
Kirkby
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:53 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3457a on the way
On 29 December 2012 20:01, Jeff Machesky <jeff@...
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com>
<mailto:jeff%40codebest.com> > wrote:
Thanks Dave, I actually have watched those videos. Bit drawn
out
like
most of his videos..but still good. Too much detail is not
always
a
bad
thing. I thought the bit showing the noise on the DVM was a bit silly
when
it
was connected to a DC power supply.
As for the 3457A, if it works I plan on getting it calibrated by
Agilent
within the year. From what I understand it's about a $200 US
investment.
The meter was last calibrated in '98, so I'll be curious to see
how
accurate it is when I get it. I think the calibration service you chose might dictate
whether you
get data about the condition when sent.
When I send mine in for cal, I'd like to know what was out and by
how
much. But I'm not going to pay extra for a calibration service
that
provides that. As far as I'm concerned, if Agilent calibrate it,
then
it is OK. For me personally, it makes no difference whatsoever
if it
has ISO, NIST or whatever calibration. But I'd prefer Agilent to
someone else.
I have calibration certificate here for an Agilent VNA calibration
kit. It was done by a calibration house in the USA. But from
what I
can gather from reading the documentation, the equipment to
calibrate
them is not available commerically. So it makes me wonder how
a lab
can calibrate a cal kit, when the equipment to do it can't be
bought.
I suspect there is a fairly cosy realationship between some test
equipment dealers and calibration facilities.
I plan on purchasing some
voltage references from the well known site as a basic test
of the
3457A. I may even calibrate it based on those references if it's
way
out
and later getting it NIST traceable calibrated. I don't know if there are pots in there you can adjust with a
trimmer,
or if it is all done electronically. You might find it is
impossible
to calibrate yourself.
I never had any reason to look inside mine.
Dave
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
You might be better off sending it to somebody on list to actually measure
it.
FWIW,
-John
==================
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
|
HP 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA.
I've got an 11866A APC-7 calibration kit for a VNA. It's only rated
to 2 GHz, but beyond that bit of information, I don't know anything
about it. Does anyone have any data on this particular calibration
kit? I do have the manual for this kit, but it is only a couple of
pages, and not exactly informative.
Does anyone have a VNA which supports the 11866A? If so, perhaps they
could read off the values for C0, C1, C2, C3, and the offset for me,
so I could put them into my VNA as a user calibration.
I suspect, given the location of the reference plane of the sexless
APC-7 connector, for use up to 2 GHz, all APC-7 calibration kits will
be equal, athough some might be more equal than others!
Dave
|
I guess I am confused. It would appear that the signal has to get through
the 60 dB attenuator before it gets to the 80 dB attenuator.
Does that mean that when the 0 dB setting is chosen, a 'pad' of the 60 dB
attenuator is selected? It may be that the ALC handles levels from, say, +3
dBm and above and to get to 0 dBm output, you select an ALC setting of +5
dBm and a 5 dB attenuator setting from the 60 dB attenuator. If so, then
there should be an output at frequencies above and below 130 MHz at settings
above +3 dBm (or whatever). If so, that would be definitive proof of a bad
60 dB attenuator. I would verify the control inputs to the attenuator as
well as power to the controller. It also may be that you dial in 60 db of
attenuation with any step and take the level below the ability of your
measuring equipment. At -60 dBm, you would likely need a measuring receiver
of a spectrum analyzer to see it. Or perhaps a standard VHF receiver set to
around 130 MHz.
Good luck.
Joe
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of Jose V. Gavila
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 5:47 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP-8657A question
Hello!
Well, I have found an important thing I had missed... the generator HAS
output at some amplitude settings. I have then done the test on Service
Sheet 8, page 8 of the Service Manual, to activate the attenuators, and
when any of the AT2 (the 60dB unit) settings is selected, even the 0dB
setting, signal output vanishes. All other settings, which only activate
AT3 (the 80dB unit), work fine.
So it seems that the 60dB unit could be faulty. It is labelled
5061-4822. I wonder if there could be any parts unit around with that
part in working condition. I would be very interested in getting one.
Thanks and best regards,
JOSE
--
73 EB5AGV - JOSE V. GAVILA - IM99sm La Canyada - Valencia(SPAIN)
AGVradio
Personal WEB
|
Jose,
One other thing. There has been a lot of discussion on the list about the
8657B which is very similar to the 8657A at least up through the HET switch.
You might want to have a look in the archives about the 8657B and various A6
issues.
The A6 board has two outputs to the HET switch, IIRC, and gets one input
from the HET switch. To make sure that the signal is, indeed, making it all
the way through the HET switch, you might want to make sure that the output
is present at all frequencies. IIRC, the 'bands' are less than 130 MHz and
130 MHz to 1040 MHz. The HET switch sends 800.1 MHz to 929.99999 MHz back
to the A6 board to be 'mixed' with 800 MHz to generate the 'low band'
frequencies.
BEWARE OF DC on the connections FROM the A6 board TO the HET switch and FROM
the HET switch back to the A6 board and TO the attenuator. It can kill a
power sensor. Ask me how I know :). I suspect a scope set to AC and
checking the frequencies above and below 130 MHz at the output of the HET
switch to the attenuator would be the best approach to start with. If it is
like the 8657B, the levels above about 0 dBm are controlled by the ALC on
the A6 board and the attenuator then gives 5 dB steps coupled with the ALC
to generate the steps below that.
Good luck.
Joe
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: hp_agilent_equipment@... [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of Jose V. Gavila Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:59 PM To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP-8657A question Hello Joe, I suspect it could be either. My 8657A is silent but my 8657B 'clicks'
every 5 dB and has a mechanical attenuator.
Do you have a picture of the attenuator? I have uploaded one to: Thanks! JOSE -----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jose V. Gavila Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:41 PM
To: HP-Agilent Equipment
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP-8657A question
Hi all,
I wish you have a nice 2013!
Well, I am working on an 8657A which has no output. So far, following
Service Manual (SM) troubleshooting guidance, I have found that there is
signal output from the A6 assembly. So it goes to the attenuator
assembly and vanishes.
I have a simple question: do the attenuaotrs on this unit generate any
mechanical noise or are they some kind of electronic switches?
I am following the tests on the SM (SS7) and there is so far a
difference on a control signal, but it would mean just a wrong
attenuation setting, but not a fully missing signal.
Any hint will be welcomed!. It is my very first 8657A :-)
Regards,
JOSE
-- 73 EB5AGV - JOSE V. GAVILA - IM99sm La Canyada - Valencia(SPAIN) AGVradio Personal WEB
|
