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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
Harvey White
On Sat, 03 Sep 2011 20:03:13 -0400, you wrote:
You will need to pull the AC connector out to access a screw that holds the board to the frame. It's the only hidden screw.A 468 is a combination analog/digital scope. Digital backpack and analog scope, combines a bit of the best of both worlds. Digital is good to 10 Mhz at the most, so not spectacular. On the other hand, it does well for low frequency work as well, so has that part of an advantage of a storage scope. You might be able to get a 7603 (100 Mhz, 3 bay), or a 7704A (200 Mhz, 4 bay) or a 7904 (500 Mhz, 4 bay). Working on the 7000 series and the plugins is another world at times. For some strange reason, I really like HP logic analyzers (I have several), don't like Tek logic analyzers (have a 308), Like Tek oscilloscopes (have a bunch), don't like HP scopes, etc.. YMMV. Harvey
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New file uploaded to hp_agilent_equipment
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the hp_agilent_equipment group. File : /HP16500 Series/16500 power supply pinout.pdf Uploaded by : tmillermdems <tmiller@...> Description : Power supply connections You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, tmillermdems <tmiller@...> |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
Tom Miller
You will need to pull the AC connector out to access a screw that holds the board to the frame. It's the only hidden screw.
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Maybe someone on the list has the model numbers in memory and can answer your scope question. If it were me, I would recommend a Tek 465 (100 MHz) or 475 (250 MHz) as a basic semi portable scope. You should be able to find a 465 for about $100 working and <$50 and you change the capacitors. Don't forget the probes. Regards, Tom ----- Original Message -----
From: ghostman1166@... To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:40 PM Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c ok tom first thing in the morning i will have another go at getting the back cover plate off so i can see that area of the board. i should stop looking at the ridge shop my wish list grows and grows lol, what model/part number would i need to look for to get a Oscilloscope card for it? and are they worth getting or is it better to get a dedicated scope? i do have a DSO but it isnt in the best condition! regards jason --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "Tom Miller" <tmiller@...> wrote: > > Jason, look at the supply near the rear panel (with the AC in connector) and see if there is a 9100 ohm power resistor. Is it burned out? > That would kill the 120 volt DC. This resistor is near the line voltage switch. > > I believe for now you would not need an isolation transformer. Just do some careful looking. > > As John stated, if there is no 120 volts, the supply will not work. But there are many things that can shutdown the 120 volt supply. > > > I need to run now but will be back later. > > > Regards. > Tom > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ghostman1166@... > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 3:10 PM > Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c > > > > thanks again for all the help. i am working on getting the supply removed but i dont have full strengh in my hands so strugling with a couple of screws :D i will reconect the power once i have the unit removed. > as luck would have it i have a couple of old tv's in the shed so i might scrounge the transformer out of them for a isolating supply. > regards jason > > --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "J. Forster" <jfor@> wrote: > > > > That's roughly what I'd expect. Comments interspersed. > > > > > Ok guys, > > > > > > This power supply does use some common ICs. > > > > > > UC3842N - off line PWM switcher - > > > My first guess is this is the pre-regulator for the 120 volts > > > > Yup. A switching downconverter to convert varying line into a stable 120 > > or so. Expect a rectifier (possibly a doubler for 115 VAC), capacitor, > > switching transistor, choke, and freewheeling diode, low ESR capacitor, > > plus the chip. > > > > > UC3524N - PWM supply > > > It seems this switches the 120 volts down to the low voltage outputs > > > > Expect a transformer, a pair of driver transistors, several rectifiers > > (bridges or half bridges), filter capacitors. > > > > > TL431CP - programmable voltage reference - many used > > > > There could be part of linear or switching post-regiulators. Any pass > > transistors? > > > > > LM358N - Dual op amp > > > > > > LM339AN - Quad comparators > > > > The comparators are probably OVP and/or OCP. > > > > > NE556N > > > Very high Tech timers (well it was 1983) > > > > > > > > > This seems to be a pretty straight forward switching supply. This is from > > > my non-working spare and I am working through it. > > > > FWIW, if the 120 LED is off, only the pre-reg is likely to be bad. > > > > It would be very useful to know if the PS works properly with no load > > connected. Some switchers shut down w/o load on OVP. > > > > -John > > > > =================== > > > > > > Regards, > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: J. Forster > > > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > > > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:09 PM > > > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault > > > hp16500c > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. I'll see if I can get any info after the long weekend. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > -John > > > > > > ==================== > > > > > > > > > > > Made by OECO Corp model number 080-20521-01 HP part number 0950-1853 > > > > > > > > I need to take a closer look. > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: J. Forster > > > > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > > > > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:17 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault > > > > hp16500c > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who made the PS and what is the part/model number? > > > > > > > > I'd bet that it's similar to other supplies that the vendor made, > > > > perhaps > > > > repackaged. The schemats for a similar supply might be available. > > > > > > > > Many PSs use a common inverter part, rated in Wattage classes, along > > > > with > > > > custom rectifiers and regulators. So, there might well be a dozen or > > > so > > > > designs with various output voltages, that all use the same inverter. > > > > > > > > Is the controller chip a standard part? Often the App Notes for a chip > > > > can > > > > give a pretty good idea of how the circuit works. > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > =================== > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps
Tom Miller
For all the trouble, you think they would have marked it for 105癈.
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Tom ----- Original Message -----
From: J. Forster To: nerd@... Cc: hp_agilent_equipment@... ; J. Forster Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps Even the crudest lot inspection would detect that fraud. -John ============== > It is rare to have 100% inspection of all components, and not everyone > even uses ICT! > > What would be funny is if the internal capacitor were a counterfeit as > well. > > Peter > > > On 9/3/2011 6:05 PM, J. Forster wrote: >> >> Wow! >> >> I wonder how much money could be made that way? It seems massively >> unprofitable because it'd fail almost any incoming inspection. >> >> -John >> >> ================= >> >> > On 9/3/2011 5:23 PM, J. Forster wrote: >> >> The cap is held to a PCB by it's leads. I'm not crazy about tacking a >> >> cap >> >> in place with RTV. >> >> >> >> It seems axial leads are getting very scarce. >> >> >> >>Hello-- >> > >> > I stumbled across this while researching counterfeit capacitors: >> > >> > >> <> >> > >> > Our best bet is to purchase components from legitimate distributors. >> > >> > 73-- >> > >> > Brad AA1IP >> > >> > >> >> > > |
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Re: Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps
J. Forster
Even the crudest lot inspection would detect that fraud.
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-John ============== It is rare to have 100% inspection of all components, and not everyone |
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Re: Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps
Peter Gottlieb
It is rare to have 100% inspection of all components, and not everyone even uses ICT!
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What would be funny is if the internal capacitor were a counterfeit as well. Peter On 9/3/2011 6:05 PM, J. Forster wrote:
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Re: Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps
J. Forster
Wow!
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I wonder how much money could be made that way? It seems massively unprofitable because it'd fail almost any incoming inspection. -John ================= On 9/3/2011 5:23 PM, J. Forster wrote:The cap is held to a PCB by it's leads. I'm not crazy about tacking aI stumbled across this while researching counterfeit capacitors: |
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Re: Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps
Looks like one of those russian doll sets... from a russian website!
Brent On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Brad Thompson <brad.thompson@...>wrote: ** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Be afraid... Electrolytic Caps
On 9/3/2011 5:23 PM, J. Forster wrote:
The cap is held to a PCB by it's leads. I'm not crazy about tacking a capI stumbled across this while researching counterfeit capacitors: Our best bet is to purchase components from legitimate distributors. 73-- Brad AA1IP |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
Harvey White
On Sat, 03 Sep 2011 20:40:43 -0000, you wrote:
ok tom first thing in the morning i will have another go at getting the back cover plate off so i can see that area of the board. i should stop looking at the ridge shop my wish list grows and grows lol, what model/part number would i need to look for to get a Oscilloscope card for it? and are they worth getting or is it better to get a dedicated scope? i do have a DSO but it isnt in the best condition!I spent a bit of time and money to get a 16530 and 16531 scope/timebase combination (16532 is nicer, but more expensive). It runs, but I haven't used it in about 3 years or so. When I need it, it will be good to have, but the analog event/trigger digital or vice versa hasn't come up when doing microprocessor work. Not yet. You might want to invest in a good analog scope, they'll show you a surprising number of things, although a digital scope is best for one shot events and low frequency signals. Harvey regards jason |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
On 09/03/2011 03:20 PM, Tom Miller wrote:
You pretty much see it as I do. The supply can be tested out of the unit if some load is put on the outputs. I sent you a PDF page from the 16500C service manual.You don't need 10 watt resistors. Power is (E^2)/R, so for 49 ohms--you'll really have 47 ohms, more than likely--power is 25/47. Use a 1 watt or 2 watt resistor. For the 3.5 volt supply, a 1/2 watt resistor is adequate. If you don't have a 1 watt resistor, 2 1/2 watt 100 ohm resistors in parallel will give you 50 ohms at 1 watt. --doug
-- Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley |
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Re: WTD: Electrolytic Caps
J. Forster
The cap is held to a PCB by it's leads. I'm not crazy about tacking a cap
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in place with RTV. It seems axial leads are getting very scarce. Thanks, -John ================ J. Forster wrote:How about: |
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Re: WTD: Electrolytic Caps
J. Forster wrote:
How about: 2200 ufd, 100 V. Item is radial lead so you will have to run an insulated wire around to convert it to axial. It is well within your size constraints. -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. ========================================================================= You have the right to YOUR life, liberty and property, but not MINE ========================================================================= Smither@... 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
ok tom first thing in the morning i will have another go at getting the back cover plate off so i can see that area of the board. i should stop looking at the ridge shop my wish list grows and grows lol, what model/part number would i need to look for to get a Oscilloscope card for it? and are they worth getting or is it better to get a dedicated scope? i do have a DSO but it isnt in the best condition!
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regards jason --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "Tom Miller" <tmiller@...> wrote:
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8340A software update availability
Hello all,
I've read in the 8510C service quick reference guide that 8340/41 sources can work with the newer revisions of 8510C firmware C.07.xx and C.08.xx (within feature limitations and with a minimum number of bugs (sigh!)) provided they have a source firmware date of 1992 or later. Does anybody has these 8340 firmwares available or any clue about how to get them? Thanks! Best regards, Javier |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
J. Forster
Hi Tom,
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Can you grab a pic of the component side of the supply PCB? It should be pretty easy to identify what is what, at least in a general sense. Best, -John ===================== Jason, look at the supply near the rear panel (with the AC in connector) |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
Tom Miller
Jason, look at the supply near the rear panel (with the AC in connector) and see if there is a 9100 ohm power resistor. Is it burned out?
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That would kill the 120 volt DC. This resistor is near the line voltage switch. I believe for now you would not need an isolation transformer. Just do some careful looking. As John stated, if there is no 120 volts, the supply will not work. But there are many things that can shutdown the 120 volt supply. I need to run now but will be back later. Regards. Tom ----- Original Message -----
From: ghostman1166@... To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 3:10 PM Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c thanks again for all the help. i am working on getting the supply removed but i dont have full strengh in my hands so strugling with a couple of screws :D i will reconect the power once i have the unit removed. as luck would have it i have a couple of old tv's in the shed so i might scrounge the transformer out of them for a isolating supply. regards jason --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "J. Forster" <jfor@...> wrote: > > That's roughly what I'd expect. Comments interspersed. > > > Ok guys, > > > > This power supply does use some common ICs. > > > > UC3842N - off line PWM switcher - > > My first guess is this is the pre-regulator for the 120 volts > > Yup. A switching downconverter to convert varying line into a stable 120 > or so. Expect a rectifier (possibly a doubler for 115 VAC), capacitor, > switching transistor, choke, and freewheeling diode, low ESR capacitor, > plus the chip. > > > UC3524N - PWM supply > > It seems this switches the 120 volts down to the low voltage outputs > > Expect a transformer, a pair of driver transistors, several rectifiers > (bridges or half bridges), filter capacitors. > > > TL431CP - programmable voltage reference - many used > > There could be part of linear or switching post-regiulators. Any pass > transistors? > > > LM358N - Dual op amp > > > > LM339AN - Quad comparators > > The comparators are probably OVP and/or OCP. > > > NE556N > > Very high Tech timers (well it was 1983) > > > > > > This seems to be a pretty straight forward switching supply. This is from > > my non-working spare and I am working through it. > > FWIW, if the 120 LED is off, only the pre-reg is likely to be bad. > > It would be very useful to know if the PS works properly with no load > connected. Some switchers shut down w/o load on OVP. > > -John > > =================== > > > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: J. Forster > > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault > > hp16500c > > > > > > > > OK. I'll see if I can get any info after the long weekend. > > > > Best, > > > > -John > > > > ==================== > > > > > > > > Made by OECO Corp model number 080-20521-01 HP part number 0950-1853 > > > > > > I need to take a closer look. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: J. Forster > > > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > > > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:17 PM > > > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault > > > hp16500c > > > > > > > > > > > > Who made the PS and what is the part/model number? > > > > > > I'd bet that it's similar to other supplies that the vendor made, > > > perhaps > > > repackaged. The schemats for a similar supply might be available. > > > > > > Many PSs use a common inverter part, rated in Wattage classes, along > > > with > > > custom rectifiers and regulators. So, there might well be a dozen or > > so > > > designs with various output voltages, that all use the same inverter. > > > > > > Is the controller chip a standard part? Often the App Notes for a chip > > > can > > > give a pretty good idea of how the circuit works. > > > > > > -John > > > > > > =================== > |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
Tom Miller
You pretty much see it as I do. The supply can be tested out of the unit if some load is put on the outputs. I sent you a PDF page from the 16500C service manual.
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I put 49 ohms 10 watt on the 5 volt output and 49 ohms on the 3.5 volt output to get it going. Also, I jumpered all the sense lines to their respective outputs. See the drawing. I do get the 120 volt led without any connections to the output connector. regards, Tom ----- Original Message -----
From: J. Forster To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c That's roughly what I'd expect. Comments interspersed. > Ok guys, > > This power supply does use some common ICs. > > UC3842N - off line PWM switcher - > My first guess is this is the pre-regulator for the 120 volts Yup. A switching downconverter to convert varying line into a stable 120 or so. Expect a rectifier (possibly a doubler for 115 VAC), capacitor, switching transistor, choke, and freewheeling diode, low ESR capacitor, plus the chip. > UC3524N - PWM supply > It seems this switches the 120 volts down to the low voltage outputs Expect a transformer, a pair of driver transistors, several rectifiers (bridges or half bridges), filter capacitors. > TL431CP - programmable voltage reference - many used There could be part of linear or switching post-regiulators. Any pass transistors? > LM358N - Dual op amp > > LM339AN - Quad comparators The comparators are probably OVP and/or OCP. > NE556N > Very high Tech timers (well it was 1983) > > > This seems to be a pretty straight forward switching supply. This is from > my non-working spare and I am working through it. FWIW, if the 120 LED is off, only the pre-reg is likely to be bad. It would be very useful to know if the PS works properly with no load connected. Some switchers shut down w/o load on OVP. -John =================== > > Regards, > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J. Forster > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:09 PM > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault > hp16500c > > > > OK. I'll see if I can get any info after the long weekend. > > Best, > > -John > > ==================== > > > > > Made by OECO Corp model number 080-20521-01 HP part number 0950-1853 > > > > I need to take a closer look. > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: J. Forster > > To: hp_agilent_equipment@... > > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: possiable power supply fault > > hp16500c > > > > > > > > Who made the PS and what is the part/model number? > > > > I'd bet that it's similar to other supplies that the vendor made, > > perhaps > > repackaged. The schemats for a similar supply might be available. > > > > Many PSs use a common inverter part, rated in Wattage classes, along > > with > > custom rectifiers and regulators. So, there might well be a dozen or > so > > designs with various output voltages, that all use the same inverter. > > > > Is the controller chip a standard part? Often the App Notes for a chip > > can > > give a pretty good idea of how the circuit works. > > > > -John > > > > =================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: possiable power supply fault hp16500c
thanks again for all the help. i am working on getting the supply removed but i dont have full strengh in my hands so strugling with a couple of screws :D i will reconect the power once i have the unit removed.
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as luck would have it i have a couple of old tv's in the shed so i might scrounge the transformer out of them for a isolating supply. regards jason --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "J. Forster" <jfor@...> wrote:
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Alexandre Souza
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