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Date
Re: 16530A/16531A self test

Michael Lohmeyer
 

At 7:01 PM -0500 11/9/07, Harvey White wrote:
Is there ever a reason for the 16530A/16531A board test to fail a self
test in the acquisition memory?
I would think this should not happen. Maybe if it had something to do with the two boards not being connected up correctly. Are there any interconnecting cables between the boards? I don't know anything about how these two boards work together, but I can imagine you might get some kind of error if they are supposed to connect together internally, but aren't properly connected. Or, perhaps there's a jumper that needs to be set. So, it may be the memory is bad like you suspect.

I checked and the only manual I have is also just the programmer's manual.

Regards,

Mike
--
----------------
Michael Lohmeyer
mike@...
16530A/16531A self test

Harvey White
 

Is there ever a reason for the 16530A/16531A board test to fail a self
test in the acquisition memory?

I have a "new" board set, which fails self test thusly. I'm seeing a
glitch in a fast sine wave which looks as if it might be a small block
of memory not responding well.

Anything that I could be doing wrong or is there a logical reason
(other than the memory is bad on the board) that would cause this?

If no, the I have to talk to the vendor on Ebay...

Harvey

PS: all I have is the programming manual, which seems to be all that's
currently available as a download. Running this is interesting...

H.
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

i can get a parts mule locally for next to nothing, one of my former coworkers volunteered one for the cause ! now i just got to find the time and make an excuse to drive to ft worth

pdxoregonpete <pdxoregonpete@...> wrote: Time yes, but this is engineering :)

My offer is still there, if anyone is in Reno to pick it up
I'll put10-20 on the bid. If not, next weekend I'll pull apart
one of of my two 8640B's, and offer to 'loan out' the gears
to someone.

-pete

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., J Forster <jfor@...> wrote:

In the time everyone (myself included) have spent on this thread,
the gears could
easily have been measured and specified.

FWIW,
-John



pdxoregonpete wrote:

When I knew an HP mechanical engineer in the early 80's,
the division he worked in either picked gears from another
HP instrument, or had them speced, and they were contracted
out, his SPC and Boston Gear catalog was well worn :) [snip]




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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

its one of the advantages of living out in the boonies , you have elbow space and can do whatever you want to, i had a 19x19' slab on my property when i bought it (in fact that was one of the reasons why i bought this property to begin with) and the power pole right next to the slab was with 100A too weak to support the doublewide, after getting the estimate from the power company about moving the pole or upgrading it to 200A the decission was made (and that was one of the rare occasions me and my wife agreed :) ) to leave the pole where its at and put up a new one for the house ! so i already had part of the infrastructure right here, it took me 7years however to save up the money and get started on building, after 6month i finally got the inside finished out with drywall, painted insulated and wired, the outside insulation and siding is still a work in progress since the funds i had allocated for that were brutally sacrificed to buy machines, benches and other stuff
mostly from TI surplus sales in the local area benches are cheap there, a old 19" equipment rack turned on the side serves as a welding table and another one is used as paint booth (1001 uses for equipment racks, needles to say that the storage cabinets are 19" either !

pdxoregonpete <pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:
When I knew an HP mechanical engineer in the early 80's,
the division he worked in either picked gears from another
HP instrument, or had them speced, and they were contracted
out, his SPC and Boston Gear catalog was well worn :)

EDM is fun :) a co worker and I wanted 'wasted' a lot of time
seeing what it would take and cost to make a batch of LEGO bricks
we came very close to having a mold made, until this spring I still
had the 100lbs of brown ABS pellets. A short life mold, some glass
filled engineering material from GE instead of delrin
()
? and maybe end up with a truly life time gear.

I envy those that have room for a mechanical shop :)

-pete

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Chuck Harris
<cfharris@...> wrote:

Hi Pete,

That gear may be a problem. I cannot say that I have ever
noticed that one... or if I did, it probably scared me so much
that I put it out of my mind ;-)

The only economical way of making it would be to cast it out of
some plastic... probably a metal loaded epoxy would do. I'll have
to check Boston Gear and see if they by some chance have such a
gear set. I doubt that HP had it custom made.

I've been planning to add an EDM machine to my machine shop. Making
an injection mold for this gear might be reason enough.

-Chuck Harris

pdxoregonpete wrote:
I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page


-pete




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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

J Forster
 

In the time everyone (myself included) have spent on this thread, the gears could
easily have been measured and specified.

FWIW,
-John



pdxoregonpete wrote:

When I knew an HP mechanical engineer in the early 80's,
the division he worked in either picked gears from another
HP instrument, or had them speced, and they were contracted
out, his SPC and Boston Gear catalog was well worn :) [snip]
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

pdxoregonpete
 

Time yes, but this is engineering :)

My offer is still there, if anyone is in Reno to pick it up
I'll put10-20 on the bid. If not, next weekend I'll pull apart
one of of my two 8640B's, and offer to 'loan out' the gears
to someone.

-pete


--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., J Forster <jfor@...> wrote:

In the time everyone (myself included) have spent on this thread,
the gears could
easily have been measured and specified.

FWIW,
-John



pdxoregonpete wrote:

When I knew an HP mechanical engineer in the early 80's,
the division he worked in either picked gears from another
HP instrument, or had them speced, and they were contracted
out, his SPC and Boston Gear catalog was well worn :) [snip]
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

pdxoregonpete
 

When I knew an HP mechanical engineer in the early 80's,
the division he worked in either picked gears from another
HP instrument, or had them speced, and they were contracted
out, his SPC and Boston Gear catalog was well worn :)

EDM is fun :) a co worker and I wanted 'wasted' a lot of time
seeing what it would take and cost to make a batch of LEGO bricks
we came very close to having a mold made, until this spring I still
had the 100lbs of brown ABS pellets. A short life mold, some glass
filled engineering material from GE instead of delrin
()
? and maybe end up with a truly life time gear.

I envy those that have room for a mechanical shop :)

-pete

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Chuck Harris
<cfharris@...> wrote:

Hi Pete,

That gear may be a problem. I cannot say that I have ever
noticed that one... or if I did, it probably scared me so much
that I put it out of my mind ;-)

The only economical way of making it would be to cast it out of
some plastic... probably a metal loaded epoxy would do. I'll have
to check Boston Gear and see if they by some chance have such a
gear set. I doubt that HP had it custom made.

I've been planning to add an EDM machine to my machine shop. Making
an injection mold for this gear might be reason enough.

-Chuck Harris

pdxoregonpete wrote:
I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page


-pete
Re: ESR Meter Design

 

Hi again, I found the schematic and the website. Could you fill me in on this site. It looks like a place where anyone? can post their projects. Is it a place where a co-operative design could be planned?
Regards, Peter.

----- Original Message -----
From: konnylagarde2002
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 2:48 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] ESR Meter Design


If anyone is interested in building a high quality low cost ESR meter
here is some information: [not necessary to build the fancy enclosure]

Pictures:



Circuit description:


I can also provide a schematic.
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

i would probably make about 2 or 3 batches, sure the US market may only hold 4 per year but you have to consider that the 8640 was sold worldwide plus its not really like im running a business where i have to make a sale or profit.
i also think that probably some owners would take 2 sets just to be on the safe side

Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
lothar baier wrote:
initial setup takes about 45-60minutes you are right on that, this is a one time operation, then put a stack of
blanks on and hob them, change the stack and hob the next batch, the time to change the batch is about 5minutes tops,
so lets do the math:

10minutes hobbing time per batch + 5minutes changing time per batch = 15minutes per batch 60/15 = 4batches per hour
* 5gears in a batch = 20gears per hour

2hrs/20gears/hr=6minutes per gear if you machine 1 batch 3hrs/40gear/hr=4.5minutes per gear if you make 2 batches
and so on
Yes, as I said there is some economy of scale, but how many gears
of one type are you planning to make? Ten would probably be more
than you could sell in a year.

-Chuck Harris




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defective Fluke 8842A

 

I am sorry to post a non HP/Agilent question here. I just want to
know if anyone can help me finding the root cause of my 8842A problem.

When the meter is powered on, it stuck in rolling reset. The display
first come on ok, but it blinks in about every 1.2sec. It has no
reponse to any key input. Pressing SQR button for 3sec will not
trigger it to go to diagnostic mode neither.

With the help of the service manual, I discovered U202 Z8 CPU doesn't
have 80Hz pulse input on pin 39. I believe the signal comes from
U101, the Fluke proprietary A/D chip which has long been out of
production. It is like a dead sentence to my meter.

I have checked all DC supply lines and they are all within spec.

I also believe the meter stuck in rolling reset is because of the
watchdog timer times out every 1.2sec due to inactivity on CS7
according to the service manual. Unfortunately the service manual
doesn't have schematic of the U101 A/D chip input and output.

I'll appreciated it if anyone can help me how to diagnose the issue.

Tom
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "lothar baier" <microwaveengineer1968@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1


the problem with parts mules is that you really dont know if the unit you get doesnt have the same problem and if it doesnt how long the part will last
Yup. Parts mules are usually a crap shoot, but most of the time
I end up with enough of the right parts to complete the repair.

Now the lifetime of that repair is a whole 'nuther story.

Best Regards,

Bob Groschen
Monument, CO
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "lothar baier" <microwaveengineer1968@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1


First off the 8640B was designed in spokane and as to my knowledge this division was disolved years ago,
Spokane wasn't shut down until a bit after we int eh Colorado Springs were laid off. They tried to move PCB manufacturing from Loveland to Spokane without much luck. I had to institute incoming acceptance test on all LA blades from Spokane (boy did that ever make me popular! Not!) When the decision came down to move a manufacturing to Penang, Spokane was a natural target.

most engineers were send to other divisions or into early retirement.
I can't remember which one of the founders didn't believe in early retirement, but in any case there was no such thing. You simply accepted a lower payout to escape early. That was your only choice. If your job was eliminated and you were not slose enough to retirement, you usually had one opportunity to find something else or you were "placed" in a position. The guy that designed the active probes for scopes & logic analyzers was just such a case. They transferred him to the power supply group, like he knew anything about power supplies. Then power supplies was eliminated in favor of outsourced design and rather than get "placed" again he grudging accepted a lower payout just to get out.

This question would have to be answered by a ME and not a EE , most large companies have a strict separation in between system engineering, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering, then the ME who designed the gear doesnt necesarily have knowledge about who makes the gear this is normally done by purchasing.
I can't speak for the other divisions or plants, but that wasn't true in the Springs as there was just too much effort in trying to squeeze 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb box. Lots of the structural parts in HP/Agilent gear was "standard" - at least for us it was. There was always the standard constraint of fitting into a 19" NEMA rack.

so even the ME might not have the info you are looking for.
One of the problems is that internally, the particular piece of equipment was known much more by it's program name than a product or part number. I still need time to translate LA blade numbers into names like Yari, Daytona, Roadrunner, etc. Product numbers just don't mean anything to me.

I doubt HP used catalog parts, HP was famous for custom parts, yes the qty was not too high for the stanbarts of running a injection molder but first of you dont have to think in today standarts but have to think 20 to 30 years back plus the 8640 was not cheap so HP could afford to pay a premium on the price.

Whether custom or OTS parts were used was determined by a lot of factors and invariably was never a single person's decision but a consensus. Criteria like price, availability, lifecycle costs, acceptable lifetime, number of vendors, time-to-market etc. all had to be factored into the decision or you wouldn't get consensus from Logistics, Purchasing, Safety, even Legal etc.

Best Regards,

Bob Groschen
Monument, CO
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

That's the size I was talking about. They are amazing little
machines.

I still would be more inclined to check out a few of the specialty
gear houses. I really doubt that HP custom made this gear. It looks
like something that would be useful for other applications.

-Chuck Harris

lothar baier wrote:

150157892150 look atv this machine, its a benchtop 20AMP EDM that runs of 115V , there are several other hansvedt
machines in the same category on ebay for about $1500 and up , im really impressed by the size, maybe i need to add
on to my shop :)
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

I doubt it, we need someone that understands gears to
get his hands on one, and spec it out... which returns
us to the beginning of the thread... <smirk>

-Chuck Harris

J Forster wrote:

Has anybody actually asked a gear company for a quote? Certainly PIC used to
do mods of stock very cheaply.
-John
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

In spite of the fact that we are discussing machine shop techniques,
we are surprisingly on topic with this thread. It isn't really going
anywhere, but it is on topic.

That is a very old fashioned form of gear. The clock makers did the
same thing using a pair of disks with a bunch of regularly spaced rods
placed around the circumference.

-Chuck Harris

J Forster wrote:

OT: (So what else is new... LoL)
I recently visited Battleship Cove in Fall River, Massachusetts and toured the ships there. (Well worth the trip, BTW)
There was ANOTHER way of making a corner gear. It was used on a valve on the destroyer Joseph Kennedy. There were two
disks, one on each shaft, and two rings of nubs, like 1/2 steel balls, attached one to each disk. The balls from one disk
intermeshed with those on the other, forming a corner gear. Really funky, but it worked.
Best,
-John
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

J Forster
 

Has anybody actually asked a gear company for a quote? Certainly PIC used to
do mods of stock very cheaply.

-John



Chuck Harris wrote:

You are, of course right, but letting the experts do their
thing will quickly put the gears out of reach of everyone that
truly needs them.

People that can afford the experts, don't need 8640B's.

-Chuck Harris
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

J Forster
 

Chuck Harris wrote:

[snip]
You use very thin epoxy casting compounds. They flow very nicely.
Once they are in the mold, you hit the vacuum, and draw the bubbles
out for a perfect fill.

-Chuck Harris
Generally, you degas the epoxy after mixing, fill the mold, and then degas again. Heating the compound and mold helps by
reducing the viscosity.

-John
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

lothar baier wrote:
initial setup takes about 45-60minutes you are right on that, this is a one time operation, then put a stack of
blanks on and hob them, change the stack and hob the next batch, the time to change the batch is about 5minutes tops,
so lets do the math:
10minutes hobbing time per batch + 5minutes changing time per batch = 15minutes per batch 60/15 = 4batches per hour
* 5gears in a batch = 20gears per hour
2hrs/20gears/hr=6minutes per gear if you machine 1 batch 3hrs/40gear/hr=4.5minutes per gear if you make 2 batches
and so on
Yes, as I said there is some economy of scale, but how many gears
of one type are you planning to make? Ten would probably be more
than you could sell in a year.


-Chuck Harris
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

J Forster
 

lothar baier wrote:

i remember years and years ago we had a similar problem with another plastic part, we used a part sprayed graphite on it and then plated over a layer of copper, this served as a EDM tool, problem was we had to make 3 of them because they wore out.
most EDMs i looked at have 3 parts, the machine itself, a power supply and a pump that circulates and filters the dielectric fluid, i havent seen a machine with a 50W supply, even the smallest ones are in the KW range, dont know why they use 3 phase , im not the guy who designed the machine, my guess is that it is better in large shops where you have numerous machines to distribute the load , i dont know !
The rate of removal of material is proportional to the machine power. In a shop where you charge by the hour, you want a high production rate.

The EDM setup I described previously ran at roughly 100 VDC at under an amp. Three phase is used because when you FW rectify it, the ripple w/o filtering is only about 4%. Ripple on the supply might lower the surface finish of the part you are making.

Best,
-John
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

150157892150 look atv this machine, its a
benchtop 20AMP EDM that runs of 115V , there are several other hansvedt machines in the same category on ebay for about $1500 and up , im really impressed by the size, maybe i need to add on to my shop :)


J Forster <jfor@...> wrote:
lothar baier wrote:

i remember years and years ago we had a similar problem with another plastic part, we used a part sprayed graphite on it and then plated over a layer of copper, this served as a EDM tool, problem was we had to make 3 of them because they wore out.
most EDMs i looked at have 3 parts, the machine itself, a power supply and a pump that circulates and filters the dielectric fluid, i havent seen a machine with a 50W supply, even the smallest ones are in the KW range, dont know why they use 3 phase , im not the guy who designed the machine, my guess is that it is better in large shops where you have numerous machines to distribute the load , i dont know !
The rate of removal of material is proportional to the machine power. In a shop where you charge by the hour, you want a high production rate.

The EDM setup I described previously ran at roughly 100 VDC at under an amp. Three phase is used because when you FW rectify it, the ripple w/o filtering is only about 4%. Ripple on the supply might lower the surface finish of the part you are making.

Best,
-John





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