Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Many of the typical capacitors with metal cans have more than one
ground lug, arranged in a circle.? The lugs are, IIRC, only for
grounding and mounting stability.? On the capacitors I've seen
(not the two lead ones), inside the circle formed by the case
mounting ears you'll find the hot lead of the capacitor.?
If you remember the dual capacitors in tube equipment, the hot
leads should be inside this circle as well.
One thing to note (for instance, in the 468 series scope), the
case can be used as a jumper to tie grounds together.? The little
adaptor plates often have ties to a common ground ring, even
though the replacement capacitor only has two leads.?
You may have to run a wire from ground lug to ground lug if they
are not obviously visually connected.
Harvey
On 11/23/2021 11:03 PM, Gene Silvernail
wrote:
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Thanks Kuba,
?
Yeh coming from the era of tubes I had
assumed a dual cap…so much for assuming.
Now that’s starting to make sense with the
single component designator, but leaves the question which 2
out of the 3 leads make up the capacitor and what purpose does
the third lead serve. Is it a non-electrical, mechanical only?
I’m working without a schematic even though
I bought the CLIP from Artek which is minus the PS board.
?
Pre-Thanks
?
Gene/K7QHO
?
?
My assumption would be that the number of
legs has not much to do with anything: it’s a single
capacitor each with 3 or 4 legs. Very common in that era. I’
e got lots of contemporaneous Tektronix equipment that has
the same capacitor styles.
The double and triple electrolytics were
a thing in the vacuum tube era.
?
Thanks Paul,
?
Just got the component location PDF on
the site which provides me the PS cap numbers; also
ordered the 70900A CLIP. However, looking at them I’m
confused further with the 3 leads. Only 1 component number
associated with a dual capacitor…huh? Hopefully the
schematic will clarify this.
?
Regards
?
Gene
?
?
Hi Gene
sorry made a mistake the 3 legged caps are on the Vishay N
-cap ?and can be found on the hp 70000 groups
site. Regards Paul?
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Thanks Kuba, ? Yeh coming from the era of tubes I had assumed a dual cap…so much for assuming. Now that’s starting to make sense with the single component designator, but leaves the question which 2 out of the 3 leads make up the capacitor and what purpose does the third lead serve. Is it a non-electrical, mechanical only? I’m working without a schematic even though I bought the CLIP from Artek which is minus the PS board. ? Pre-Thanks ? Gene/K7QHO ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Kuba Ober Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 7:26 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? My assumption would be that the number of legs has not much to do with anything: it’s a single capacitor each with 3 or 4 legs. Very common in that era. I’ e got lots of contemporaneous Tektronix equipment that has the same capacitor styles. The double and triple electrolytics were a thing in the vacuum tube era. ? Thanks Paul, ? Just got the component location PDF on the site which provides me the PS cap numbers; also ordered the 70900A CLIP. However, looking at them I’m confused further with the 3 leads. Only 1 component number associated with a dual capacitor…huh? Hopefully the schematic will clarify this. ? Regards ? Gene ? ? Hi Gene
sorry made a mistake the 3 legged caps are on the Vishay N -cap ?and can be found on the hp 70000 groups
site. Regards Paul?
|
Working on the PS board of the 70900A and bought the CLIP from Artek. Beautifully clear images, excellent for what's there. Unfortunately, the one thing I really needed it for isn't, that being the PS board. Anyone have any idea where that would that be found? Any help is greatly appreciated. Pre-Thanks Gene/K7QHO 
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
My assumption would be that the number of legs has not much to do with anything: it’s a single capacitor each with 3 or 4 legs. Very common in that era. I’ e got lots of contemporaneous Tektronix equipment that has the same capacitor styles.
The double and triple electrolytics were a thing in the vacuum tube era.
Cheers, Kuba
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23 nov. 2021 kl. 9:54 em skrev Gene Silvernail <genesilvernail@...>:
? Thanks Paul, ? Just got the component location PDF on the site which provides me the PS cap numbers; also ordered the 70900A CLIP. However, looking at them I’m confused further with the 3 leads. Only 1 component number associated with a dual capacitor…huh? Hopefully the schematic will clarify this. ? Regards ? Gene ? ? Hi Gene
sorry made a mistake the 3 legged caps are on the Vishay N -cap ?and can be found on the hp 70000 groups
site. Regards Paul?
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Thanks Paul, ? Just got the component location PDF on the site which provides me the PS cap numbers; also ordered the 70900A CLIP. However, looking at them I’m confused further with the 3 leads. Only 1 component number associated with a dual capacitor…huh? Hopefully the schematic will clarify this. ? Regards ? Gene ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul Bicknell Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 12:56 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? Hi Gene
sorry made a mistake the 3 legged caps are on the Vishay N -cap ?and can be found on the hp 70000 groups
site. Regards Paul?
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hp 33311-60039 absorbing SPDT specs?
I am trying to locate the datasheet for for standard part without a suffix.?? The above datasheet depicts the A,B&C.? Any help is appreciated.
HP / Agilent 33311-60039 DC -18 GHz, 24 VDC, SMA, SPDT Coaxial Switch. Tested!
Specifications:? DC to 4 GHz, 24V DC.
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Gene
sorry made a mistake the 3 legged caps are on the Vishay N -cap ?and can be found on the hp 70000 groups
site. Regards Paul?
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Gene?
re your comment about 3 lead not available I assume you have not looked at the file with the capacitor dater sheets for the 70900 that are in the files on this site?
regards Paul?
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HP 8640B - internal counter suddenly got crazy
HP 8640B S/N 2350A23618.
Modulation OFF (both AM and FM);
Output set to -30dBm.
INT/EXT (rear panel) set to INT;
connecting REF OUT (rear panel) to COUNTER INPUT (and setting INT/EXT to EXT) the counter reads:
0005.00 in the 0-10 range; 05.0000 in the 10-550 range
005.000 (x10) in the 0-10 range; 5.00000 in the 10-550 range;
05.0000 - overflow (X100) in the 0-10 range; .000000+overflow in the 10-550 range;.
The RF output frequency is correct and has the correct RF output level.
Level indicator works normally.
External counter input works OK in the 0-10Mhz range, but doubles
the reading in the 10-512Mhz range (BUT not if signal is coming from output REF (rear panel) !! as seen before..).
The "wiper" contacts on the round clear plastic rotary switches seem to be all in place: 4 on the back and
3 on the front on the band switch and 2 on the peak&deviation switch.
Connecting an external counter to the sig-gen output and comparing its readings against
the 8640B internal counter leads to the following table:
Range????? generated signal??? INT Freq counter Reads:
256-512??? 512??? ??? ??? ? ????????? 1024
?? ????????????? 256?? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ??? ??? 512
128-256??? 256??? ??? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? 1024
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 128??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??? 512
64-128? ? ? 128??? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??? 128
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 64??? ??? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ?? 64
32-64????????? 64??? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ??? 128
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 32?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ??? ??? 64
16-32?? ? ? ?? 32??? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ??? 128
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 16??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? 64
8-16? ? ? ? ? ? 16??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ??? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? 8?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? 4
4-8? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 8? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ??? 8
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4??? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??? 4
2-4?? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 4?? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ??? ??? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? 2??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ??? 4
1-2? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 1??? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??? 4
.5-1?? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1??? ??? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ?? ?? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? 0,5??? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??? 4
Can some 8640 guru address me to find the fault?
I have service manuals but none for my S/N. Ordered the right one at Aterk Manuals: still waiting for it.
Thanks in advance.
Emanuele.
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Yeh, Dan it losing step...back at it...
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"Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the
weak! ;)"
To quote a character from one of (IIRC) Friedrich Duerrenmatt's short stories, "Schlafen ist Suende!" - sleep is a sin!? ? ? ? Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 11/23/21 7:04 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/23/21 6:02 AM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
> No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus!
?? That's a good start.
> Faraday has left the building!...
?? Apparently!
> None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running
> just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72...
> essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz.
>
> 3ea 470uf @ 12V
> 1200uf @ 12V
> 2ea 270uf @ 25V
> 560uf @ 7.5V
>
> These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema
> and they don't appear to tied common.
?? No, 7 capacitors.? They are not dual capacitors; they simply have
three leads.? See the datasheet for Sprague (now Vishay) 672D.
> Hitting the sack...out
?? Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the
weak! ;)
????????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
"Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the
weak! ;)"
To quote a character from one of (IIRC) Friedrich Duerrenmatt's short stories, "Schlafen ist Suende!" - sleep is a sin!? ? ? ? Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> Date: 11/23/21 7:04 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/23/21 6:02 AM, Gene Silvernail wrote: > No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus! ?? That's a good start. > Faraday has left the building!... ?? Apparently! > None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running > just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72... > essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz. > > 3ea 470uf @ 12V > 1200uf @ 12V > 2ea 270uf @ 25V > 560uf @ 7.5V > > These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema > and they don't appear to tied common. ?? No, 7 capacitors.? They are not dual capacitors; they simply have three leads.? See the datasheet for Sprague (now Vishay) 672D. > Hitting the sack...out ?? Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the weak! ;) ????????????? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/23/21 6:02 AM, Gene Silvernail wrote: No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus! That's a good start. Faraday has left the building!... Apparently! None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72... essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz.
3ea 470uf @ 12V
1200uf @ 12V
2ea 270uf @ 25V
560uf @ 7.5V
These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema and they don't appear to tied common. No, 7 capacitors. They are not dual capacitors; they simply have three leads. See the datasheet for Sprague (now Vishay) 672D. Hitting the sack...out Surely you could've taken it further last night. Sleep is for the weak! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus!
Faraday has left the building!...
None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72... essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz.
3ea 470uf @ 12V
1200uf @ 12V
2ea 270uf @ 25V
560uf @ 7.5V
These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema and they don't appear to tied common.
Hitting the sack...out
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get
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Right-Oh
DC > AC > DC
I'm kind of like my dog...
Sniff? > Visual > Locate... bury the bone
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 6:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/22/21 9:26 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
> Dave that's spot on my next move.
>
> I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I
> have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc
> in-circuit.? I will make readings of all the caps before and after
> removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one
> of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or
> other actives are involved.
>
> While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to
> continue trouble shooting,? using the wire element from a standard 2
> amp (fast
> acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional
> damage, will see.
?? "Human senses first"...take a look at where the leads exit those capacitors, look for some light charring or darkening around the leads.
Target those first.
?? Yes, something caused that fuse to blow.? I've not looked (recently,
anyway) at the schematic for that power supply, but it's not uncommon for failed smoothing capacitors to cause ripple that exceeds the trigger voltage of a downstream crowbar circuit, resulting in blown fuses.
?? Also, remember that this is a 40kHz circuit, no 60/120Hz business here.
?? Good luck.
??????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: BASIC on the HP 3396B Integrator II ?
O.K., the missing ROM was found by a fellow HP fan and a copy has been installed in my device.
I now see that the core model has a BASIC interpreter built-in, but not the interactive BASIC system which is needed to write programs.
This part is contained in the formerly missing ROM.
What is still missing is the "HP 3396 RS-232-C Programmer's Guide (03396-90335)", which seems to contain the syntax for remote operation as used by the HP PEAK96 software.
Anyway, with the added BASIC Capability it is possible for me to access other HP-IL devices.
Another entertaining building block of the HP-IL universe.
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Right-Oh
DC > AC > DC
I'm kind of like my dog...
Sniff > Visual > Locate... bury the bone
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 6:42 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? On 11/22/21 9:26 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: Dave that's spot on my next move.
I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I
have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc
in-circuit. I will make readings of all the caps before and after
removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one
of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or
other actives are involved.
While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to
continue trouble shooting, using the wire element from a standard 2
amp (fast
acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional
damage, will see. "Human senses first"...take a look at where the leads exit those capacitors, look for some light charring or darkening around the leads. Target those first. Yes, something caused that fuse to blow. I've not looked (recently, anyway) at the schematic for that power supply, but it's not uncommon for failed smoothing capacitors to cause ripple that exceeds the trigger voltage of a downstream crowbar circuit, resulting in blown fuses. Also, remember that this is a 40kHz circuit, no 60/120Hz business here. Good luck. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: : HP Spectrumanalyzer 851b and 852a
Hi Michael,
did you check the addendums / change notes section of your manual already? These instruments obviously underwent a lot of changes in the beginning. For the 851A alone, I have a 1/2" stack of Service Notes, Production Memos and Change Notes alone.
Chris
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/22/21 9:26 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: Dave that's spot on my next move.
I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc in-circuit. ?I will make readings of all the caps before and after removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or other actives are involved.
While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to continue trouble shooting, ?using the wire element from a standard 2 amp (fast acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional damage, will see. "Human senses first"...take a look at where the leads exit those capacitors, look for some light charring or darkening around the leads. Target those first. Yes, something caused that fuse to blow. I've not looked (recently, anyway) at the schematic for that power supply, but it's not uncommon for failed smoothing capacitors to cause ripple that exceeds the trigger voltage of a downstream crowbar circuit, resulting in blown fuses. Also, remember that this is a 40kHz circuit, no 60/120Hz business here. Good luck. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Dave that's spot on my next move. ? I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc in-circuit. ?I will make readings of all the caps before and after removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or other actives are involved. ? While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to continue trouble shooting, ?using the wire element from a standard 2 amp (fast acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional damage, will see. 
? ? Will post as we go down this road
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 10:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? ? ?? Definitely look at the column of electrolytic capacitors in the middle of the power supply board.? It seems most 70900s have succumbed to failures of those capacitors now.? There have been YIG failures, but in my experience nearly all of those capacitors will be bad. ? ?? They do need to be low-ESR types, but they're not difficult to find. I'll bet that, once replaced, your 70900 will spring to life. ? ????????????? -Dave ? On 11/20/21 9:02 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: > Thanks Vladan, > > That’s a good postulate because I had to replace one of the fuses on > the PS board to get this far in trouble shooting. BTW those fuses are > rare and damned expensive. They are from the early NASA days and > listed as very fast acting fuses. Got a few on order but not wanting > p-off $10 dollar fuses in trouble shooting I improvised by breaking > open standard fast 2A fuses reclaiming the fuse wire. I pinned the > wire in the 2 pins of the socket using the blown fuse. I extended the > wire free of the socket by 3mm to free it from any thermal sink. ?If I > was going to blow fuses they would be cheap fuses. Before refusing I > could not get all the keys on the 702005A to respond, i.e. row column > selection on A-Map. Also none of the front status LEDs on the L.O. > were illuminated. Best guess was with that fuse out, inboard fuse, > some mutual bus was being inhibited. Refusing cleared 70205A > functionality and LEDs were lit, albeit maybe dimmer than the RF > section. Of note, now the IF LEDs were out where prior to fuse replacement at least one, I think both, were lit. > > I think next step is to pull the PS board and… > >? 1. Visual on full board top and bottom? 2. Run C and ESR readings on > the electrolytics? 3. Verify what the bad fuse fused then verify all > actives in that path > > I still don’t know if the 70905A/L.O. should be seen in the Address > Map > > *From:* [email protected] > <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *pianovt via > groups.io > *Sent:* Saturday, November 20, 2021 5:36 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K > system is old; good or bad omen? > > Gene, > > I don't know the answers to your configuration question, but one > possibility is that a power supply in the LO module is down. After > years of service, the electrolytic capacitors in that module tend to > fail. You may be able to see what's going on by removing the mainframe > cover and the LO module cover. > > Vladan > > ? ? -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA ? ? ? ?
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Re: Looking for a 16534a or 16533a oscilloscope card
Nada on a 33A or 34A from me.
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Re: Maybe someone can use parts for a HP3577A?
On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 10:00 PM, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Just stumbled on this advert. Mind you, I am not the seller nor do I know him. Prices are in � and the parts are in the Netherlands.
Hi Wilko, I purchased the keyboard (therefore no longer in the ad), which contains 51 Bill West switches. It proved in very good condition and it was packed with great care. I hope others will be happy with the other boards. Also, a disclaimer from my side: No affiliation whatsoever. Raymond
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Paul Bicknell
Emanuele Girlando
Dave McGuire
Precaud