Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Gene
sorry made a mistake the 3 legged caps are on the Vishay N -cap ?and can be found on the hp 70000 groups
site. Regards Paul?
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Gene?
re your comment about 3 lead not available I assume you have not looked at the file with the capacitor dater sheets for the 70900 that are in the files on this site?
regards Paul?
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HP 8640B - internal counter suddenly got crazy
HP 8640B S/N 2350A23618.
Modulation OFF (both AM and FM);
Output set to -30dBm.
INT/EXT (rear panel) set to INT;
connecting REF OUT (rear panel) to COUNTER INPUT (and setting INT/EXT to EXT) the counter reads:
0005.00 in the 0-10 range; 05.0000 in the 10-550 range
005.000 (x10) in the 0-10 range; 5.00000 in the 10-550 range;
05.0000 - overflow (X100) in the 0-10 range; .000000+overflow in the 10-550 range;.
The RF output frequency is correct and has the correct RF output level.
Level indicator works normally.
External counter input works OK in the 0-10Mhz range, but doubles
the reading in the 10-512Mhz range (BUT not if signal is coming from output REF (rear panel) !! as seen before..).
The "wiper" contacts on the round clear plastic rotary switches seem to be all in place: 4 on the back and
3 on the front on the band switch and 2 on the peak&deviation switch.
Connecting an external counter to the sig-gen output and comparing its readings against
the 8640B internal counter leads to the following table:
Range????? generated signal??? INT Freq counter Reads:
256-512??? 512??? ??? ??? ? ????????? 1024
?? ????????????? 256?? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ??? ??? 512
128-256??? 256??? ??? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? 1024
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 128??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??? 512
64-128? ? ? 128??? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??? 128
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 64??? ??? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ?? 64
32-64????????? 64??? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ??? 128
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 32?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ??? ??? 64
16-32?? ? ? ?? 32??? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ??? 128
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 16??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? 64
8-16? ? ? ? ? ? 16??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ??? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? 8?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? 4
4-8? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 8? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ??? 8
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4??? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??? 4
2-4?? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 4?? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ??? ??? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? 2??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ??? 4
1-2? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 1??? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??? 4
.5-1?? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1??? ??? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ?? ?? 8
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? 0,5??? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??? 4
Can some 8640 guru address me to find the fault?
I have service manuals but none for my S/N. Ordered the right one at Aterk Manuals: still waiting for it.
Thanks in advance.
Emanuele.
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Yeh, Dan it losing step...back at it...
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"Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the
weak! ;)"
To quote a character from one of (IIRC) Friedrich Duerrenmatt's short stories, "Schlafen ist Suende!" - sleep is a sin!? ? ? ? Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 11/23/21 7:04 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/23/21 6:02 AM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
> No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus!
?? That's a good start.
> Faraday has left the building!...
?? Apparently!
> None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running
> just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72...
> essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz.
>
> 3ea 470uf @ 12V
> 1200uf @ 12V
> 2ea 270uf @ 25V
> 560uf @ 7.5V
>
> These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema
> and they don't appear to tied common.
?? No, 7 capacitors.? They are not dual capacitors; they simply have
three leads.? See the datasheet for Sprague (now Vishay) 672D.
> Hitting the sack...out
?? Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the
weak! ;)
????????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
"Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the
weak! ;)"
To quote a character from one of (IIRC) Friedrich Duerrenmatt's short stories, "Schlafen ist Suende!" - sleep is a sin!? ? ? ? Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> Date: 11/23/21 7:04 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/23/21 6:02 AM, Gene Silvernail wrote: > No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus! ?? That's a good start. > Faraday has left the building!... ?? Apparently! > None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running > just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72... > essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz. > > 3ea 470uf @ 12V > 1200uf @ 12V > 2ea 270uf @ 25V > 560uf @ 7.5V > > These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema > and they don't appear to tied common. ?? No, 7 capacitors.? They are not dual capacitors; they simply have three leads.? See the datasheet for Sprague (now Vishay) 672D. > Hitting the sack...out ?? Surely you could've taken it further last night.? Sleep is for the weak! ;) ????????????? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/23/21 6:02 AM, Gene Silvernail wrote: No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus! That's a good start. Faraday has left the building!... Apparently! None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72... essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz.
3ea 470uf @ 12V
1200uf @ 12V
2ea 270uf @ 25V
560uf @ 7.5V
These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema and they don't appear to tied common. No, 7 capacitors. They are not dual capacitors; they simply have three leads. See the datasheet for Sprague (now Vishay) 672D. Hitting the sack...out Surely you could've taken it further last night. Sleep is for the weak! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
No burnt smell...no over amping any traces...all clean, a plus!
Faraday has left the building!...
None of the dual lead caps below are any where there spec...all running just a few uF even at 120 Hz. ESR running between 24 and 72... essentially no filtering...nearly raw 40khz.
3ea 470uf @ 12V
1200uf @ 12V
2ea 270uf @ 25V
560uf @ 7.5V
These duals will require 14 single pack caps right? working no schema and they don't appear to tied common.
Hitting the sack...out
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Right-Oh
DC > AC > DC
I'm kind of like my dog...
Sniff? > Visual > Locate... bury the bone
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 6:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/22/21 9:26 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
> Dave that's spot on my next move.
>
> I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I
> have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc
> in-circuit.? I will make readings of all the caps before and after
> removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one
> of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or
> other actives are involved.
>
> While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to
> continue trouble shooting,? using the wire element from a standard 2
> amp (fast
> acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional
> damage, will see.
?? "Human senses first"...take a look at where the leads exit those capacitors, look for some light charring or darkening around the leads.
Target those first.
?? Yes, something caused that fuse to blow.? I've not looked (recently,
anyway) at the schematic for that power supply, but it's not uncommon for failed smoothing capacitors to cause ripple that exceeds the trigger voltage of a downstream crowbar circuit, resulting in blown fuses.
?? Also, remember that this is a 40kHz circuit, no 60/120Hz business here.
?? Good luck.
??????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: BASIC on the HP 3396B Integrator II ?
O.K., the missing ROM was found by a fellow HP fan and a copy has been installed in my device.
I now see that the core model has a BASIC interpreter built-in, but not the interactive BASIC system which is needed to write programs.
This part is contained in the formerly missing ROM.
What is still missing is the "HP 3396 RS-232-C Programmer's Guide (03396-90335)", which seems to contain the syntax for remote operation as used by the HP PEAK96 software.
Anyway, with the added BASIC Capability it is possible for me to access other HP-IL devices.
Another entertaining building block of the HP-IL universe.
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Right-Oh
DC > AC > DC
I'm kind of like my dog...
Sniff > Visual > Locate... bury the bone
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 6:42 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? On 11/22/21 9:26 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: Dave that's spot on my next move.
I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I
have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc
in-circuit. I will make readings of all the caps before and after
removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one
of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or
other actives are involved.
While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to
continue trouble shooting, using the wire element from a standard 2
amp (fast
acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional
damage, will see. "Human senses first"...take a look at where the leads exit those capacitors, look for some light charring or darkening around the leads. Target those first. Yes, something caused that fuse to blow. I've not looked (recently, anyway) at the schematic for that power supply, but it's not uncommon for failed smoothing capacitors to cause ripple that exceeds the trigger voltage of a downstream crowbar circuit, resulting in blown fuses. Also, remember that this is a 40kHz circuit, no 60/120Hz business here. Good luck. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: : HP Spectrumanalyzer 851b and 852a
Hi Michael,
did you check the addendums / change notes section of your manual already? These instruments obviously underwent a lot of changes in the beginning. For the 851A alone, I have a 1/2" stack of Service Notes, Production Memos and Change Notes alone.
Chris
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/22/21 9:26 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: Dave that's spot on my next move.
I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc in-circuit. ?I will make readings of all the caps before and after removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or other actives are involved.
While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to continue trouble shooting, ?using the wire element from a standard 2 amp (fast acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional damage, will see. "Human senses first"...take a look at where the leads exit those capacitors, look for some light charring or darkening around the leads. Target those first. Yes, something caused that fuse to blow. I've not looked (recently, anyway) at the schematic for that power supply, but it's not uncommon for failed smoothing capacitors to cause ripple that exceeds the trigger voltage of a downstream crowbar circuit, resulting in blown fuses. Also, remember that this is a 40kHz circuit, no 60/120Hz business here. Good luck. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Dave that's spot on my next move. ? I need to get a schematic to work from rather than going in blind. I have a ESR meter that can read with some considerations ESR, etc in-circuit. ?I will make readings of all the caps before and after removal along with the replacement caps. Because I had to re-fuse one of the 2 fuses, I believe more than just caps, may be IC regulator or other actives are involved. ? While awaiting proper fuses (very fast acting) I improvised, to continue trouble shooting, ?using the wire element from a standard 2 amp (fast acting) fuse, see below. This may have provoked some additional damage, will see. 
? ? Will post as we go down this road
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 10:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? ? ?? Definitely look at the column of electrolytic capacitors in the middle of the power supply board.? It seems most 70900s have succumbed to failures of those capacitors now.? There have been YIG failures, but in my experience nearly all of those capacitors will be bad. ? ?? They do need to be low-ESR types, but they're not difficult to find. I'll bet that, once replaced, your 70900 will spring to life. ? ????????????? -Dave ? On 11/20/21 9:02 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: > Thanks Vladan, > > That’s a good postulate because I had to replace one of the fuses on > the PS board to get this far in trouble shooting. BTW those fuses are > rare and damned expensive. They are from the early NASA days and > listed as very fast acting fuses. Got a few on order but not wanting > p-off $10 dollar fuses in trouble shooting I improvised by breaking > open standard fast 2A fuses reclaiming the fuse wire. I pinned the > wire in the 2 pins of the socket using the blown fuse. I extended the > wire free of the socket by 3mm to free it from any thermal sink. ?If I > was going to blow fuses they would be cheap fuses. Before refusing I > could not get all the keys on the 702005A to respond, i.e. row column > selection on A-Map. Also none of the front status LEDs on the L.O. > were illuminated. Best guess was with that fuse out, inboard fuse, > some mutual bus was being inhibited. Refusing cleared 70205A > functionality and LEDs were lit, albeit maybe dimmer than the RF > section. Of note, now the IF LEDs were out where prior to fuse replacement at least one, I think both, were lit. > > I think next step is to pull the PS board and… > >? 1. Visual on full board top and bottom? 2. Run C and ESR readings on > the electrolytics? 3. Verify what the bad fuse fused then verify all > actives in that path > > I still don’t know if the 70905A/L.O. should be seen in the Address > Map > > *From:* [email protected] > <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *pianovt via > groups.io > *Sent:* Saturday, November 20, 2021 5:36 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K > system is old; good or bad omen? > > Gene, > > I don't know the answers to your configuration question, but one > possibility is that a power supply in the LO module is down. After > years of service, the electrolytic capacitors in that module tend to > fail. You may be able to see what's going on by removing the mainframe > cover and the LO module cover. > > Vladan > > ? ? -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA ? ? ? ?
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Re: Looking for a 16534a or 16533a oscilloscope card
Nada on a 33A or 34A from me.
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Re: Maybe someone can use parts for a HP3577A?
On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 10:00 PM, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Just stumbled on this advert. Mind you, I am not the seller nor do I know him. Prices are in � and the parts are in the Netherlands.
Hi Wilko, I purchased the keyboard (therefore no longer in the ad), which contains 51 Bill West switches. It proved in very good condition and it was packed with great care. I hope others will be happy with the other boards. Also, a disclaimer from my side: No affiliation whatsoever. Raymond
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Maybe someone can use parts for a HP3577A?
Just stumbled on this advert. Mind you, I am not the seller nor do I know him. Prices are in � and the parts are in the Netherlands.
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Re: 5065A rubidium frequency standard, no 2nd harmonic.
Jared You can pull it from the front or back. They come from the same circuit. Your simply looking to see if teh 5 MHz is off in open loop mode. If its more then 1 Hz I will believe thats trouble. You could also inject the good 5 MHz into what the OCXO feeds and if you have some 2H then you know your on the right trail. Regards Paul
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Got that Dave... makes sense and availability is probably nil... will replace? with 2 leg varieties...TNX
Gene/K7QHO
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?? I don't recall whether the third lead is isolated or not, but I
replace them with two-leaded capacitors.? As far as I can tell, that was
just HP being overly anal-retentive about immobilization of the components.
????????????? -Dave
On 11/22/21 2:09 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
> Thanks Dave,
>
> What's the story on the dual caps?
>
> Regards
>
> Gene
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
> Get Outlook for Android <>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
> < [email protected]> on behalf of Dave McGuire
> <mcguire@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 22, 2021 8:40:02 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> < [email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K
> system is old; good or bad omen?
> On 11/21/21 10:56 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
>> The as-found is shown on the right…so I tried the settings in Figure 2.4
>>? ?as shown below… still no cigar…70900A still MIA ON Map?
>
>? ?? Gene, seriously, check those capacitors on the power supply board.
> This is not just an occasional problem; seriously, 3/4ths of the 70900s
> that have gone through here have had that failure.
>
>? ?????????? -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
I don't recall whether the third lead is isolated or not, but I replace them with two-leaded capacitors. As far as I can tell, that was just HP being overly anal-retentive about immobilization of the components.
-Dave
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On 11/22/21 2:09 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote: Thanks Dave,
What's the story on the dual caps?
Regards
Gene
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Get Outlook for Android <>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
*Sent:* Monday, November 22, 2021 8:40:02 AM
*To:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
On 11/21/21 10:56 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
The as-found is shown on the right…so I tried the settings in Figure 2.4 ? ?as shown below… still no cigar…70900A still MIA ON Map? ?? Gene, seriously, check those capacitors on the power supply board.
This is not just an occasional problem; seriously, 3/4ths of the 70900s
that have gone through here have had that failure.
?????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Thanks Dave,
What's the story on the dual caps?
Regards
Gene
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On 11/21/21 10:56 PM, Gene Silvernail wrote:
> The as-found is shown on the right…so I tried the settings in Figure 2.4
>? ?as shown below… still no cigar…70900A still MIA ON Map?
?? Gene, seriously, check those capacitors on the power supply board.
This is not just an occasional problem; seriously, 3/4ths of the 70900s
that have gone through here have had that failure.
?????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Here is a Mouser list I use:
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Mfr. #:
A759MU277M1VAAE022
Mouser #:
80-A759MU277M1VAAE22
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| 3 |
Mouser #:
710-870135375007
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| 4 |
Mfr. #:
A758KR567M1AAAE011
Mouser #:
80-A758KR567M1AAAE11
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| 5 |
Mfr. #:
A750MV128M1CAAE012
Mouser #:
80-A750MV128M1CAAE12
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On 11/21/2021 9:13 PM, pianovt via
groups.io wrote:
Just a reminder: the supply operates at 40KHz, so search for
correct ESR values in that frequency range.
Vladan
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Paul Bicknell
Emanuele Girlando
Dave McGuire
Precaud