开云体育

(off topic)

Someone whose name we don't know but whose email address is doscar.sole@... wrote:

<snip; unimportant to the topic>

Just out of curiosity doscar.sole@..., what tn3270 terminal client do you use? Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 product? Or x3270? (wx3270, c3270, wc3270)

I only ask because, as far as I know, most 3270 terminal emulators support copying text directly from the 3270 screen into your email, thereby completely eliminating the need to copy & paste screen images. Does the 3270 emulator you're using not support that?

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Just tested, c3270 doesn't let you select/copy text in the terminal.

Hi, you can call me David :-)
I tend to post pictures because of professional defect... on the place I work we normally take screenshots for bugs/simillar documentation because are more quick and also they tend to add some information (if there's a full screenshot, you can have some contextual information such as time, date, etc); also some tools mess up/don't allow to copy-paste, so I don't even try... hehe... I just make a snapshot knowing it will work :-)

Sorry if this clogs a bit the space, I will try to get text versions for the next post.

Thanks for the suggestion!

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 12:14:34PM -0700, Phil Young wrote:

Just tested, c3270 doesn't let you select/copy text in the terminal.

That seems odd, but I just found the same when I tried. Fortunately I was
running c3270 under GNU screen. After engaging GNU screen's copy/scrollback
mode I was able to copy a c3270 screen:


.-. .-..-. .-..----. .---. .--. .-.
} \/ { \ \_/ /{ {__-` `-`} } { {} } | |
| { } | \ / .-._} } .-.} } _{ {} }{`-' }
`-' `-' `-' `----' `----`{_}`--' `---'

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFDDDDDDDDDDDDD 1111111
R::::::::::::::::R F::::::::::::::::::::FD::::::::::::DDD 1::::::1
R::::::RRRRRR:::::R F::::::::::::::::::::FD:::::::::::::::DD 1:::::::1
RR:::::R R:::::RFF::::::FFFFFFFFF::::FDDD:::::DDDDD:::::D111:::::1
R::::R R:::::R F:::::F FFFFFF D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R::::R R:::::R F:::::F D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R::::RRRRRR:::::R F::::::FFFFFFFFFF D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R:::::::::::::RR F:::::::::::::::F D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R::::RRRRRR:::::R F:::::::::::::::F D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R::::R R::::::R F::::::FFFFFFFFFF D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R::::R R::::::R F:::::F D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
R::::R R::::::R F:::::F D:::::D D:::::D 1::::1
RR:::::R R::::::RFF:::::::FF DDD:::::DDDDD:::::D111::::::111
R::::::R R::::::RF::::::::FF D:::::::::::::::DD 1::::::::::1
R::::::R R::::::RF::::::::FF D::::::::::::DDD 1::::::::::1
RRRRRRRR RRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFF DDDDDDDDDDDDD 111111111111

ENTER REQUEST FOR TERMINAL CUU0C0 ========>

When all else fails, improvise. :-)



--

Kevin


Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

Phil Young wrote:

Just tested, c3270 doesn't let you select/copy text in the terminal.

Seems like a shortcoming to me, but okay, I guess that explains it then.

Posting screenshots is, on the grand scheme of things, NOT that big of a deal. It's just a minor thing, really. But *sometimes* people post screenshots where the text is quite tiny and hard to read for some people. With text, the recipient (i.e. the person reading the post) can set THEIR email/html client's font to whatever size is convenient for their aging, visually impaired eyeballs. Can't do that with screenshots unfortunately. Their size is determined by the person making the post, not the person reading their post.

That's it. Thanks for the feedback. We can end this thread now. Thanks everyone.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

On 08.19.2022 12:14, Phil Young wrote:

Just tested, c3270 doesn't let you select/copy text in the terminal.

c3270 enables "mouse reporting" in the terminal so you can use the mouse
to click around to set the cursor position, trigger the menus, etc.

Therefore, it's taking over the standard mouse behavior from your
terminal emulator, which is why it seems like you can't select text to
copy and paste.

So you need to know how your terminal emulator works.

In my case, using xterm, if I hold down the shift key, mouse events are
handled by xterm instead of being passed through to c3270. Thus, if I
hold down shift, I can highlight text in the terminal window and copy
(in my case, Ctrl-Shift-C to copy selected text from xterm).

I also know in MacOS, when using Terminal.app, you can toggle mouse
reporting with Command-R. So you can toggle mouse reporting off,
highlight and copy text as you please, then toggle mouse reporting back
on again if you want to use your mouse with your 3270 session.

-Matthew

Fish,

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 01:43:41PM -0700, Fish Fish wrote:

Posting screenshots is, on the grand scheme of things, NOT that big of a
deal. It's just a minor thing, really.

True, but they might go unnoticed by some. In my plain text e-mail client I
didn't page down far enough when initially reading the OP's e-mail to notice
there were screen shots attached. I went back and found them after they
were mentioned later in the thread.

With text, the recipient (i.e. the person reading the post) can set THEIR
email/html client's font to whatever size is convenient for their aging,
visually impaired eyeballs. Can't do that with screenshots unfortunately.

Perhaps not with your mail client, but you could open the screen shot(s) in
an image viewer and zoom in as needed.



--

Kevin


Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

Matthew,

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 02:29:21PM -0700, Matthew Wilson wrote:

In my case, using xterm, if I hold down the shift key, mouse events are
handled by xterm instead of being passed through to c3270. Thus, if I hold
down shift, I can highlight text in the terminal window and copy (in my
case, Ctrl-Shift-C to copy selected text from xterm).

Thanks for mentioning that. It works in urxvt also, and is easier than then
GNU screen method I was using. Now if I can just remember that technique
until I have the opportunity to use it enough times for it to stick in my
memory.




--

Kevin


Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 12:14:34 -0700, "Phil Young"
<mainframed767@...> wrote:

Just tested, c3270 doesn't let you select/copy text in the terminal.

It seems to be something related to some curses based applications.
Normally when the simple select (with mouse) does not work, try press
<shift> key while selecting:

=====================8<-----------------------------------------------
Terminal CUU0C2 Date
19.08.22 Time 19:57:27

** **** ||
** ** ** ** ** |||
** ** ** ** ** ||||
** ** ** || ||
|l _,,,---,,_ ** ** ** || ||
ZZZzz /,'.-'`' -. ;-;;, ** **** || ||
|,4- ) )-,_. ,( ( ''-' ** || ||
'---''(_/--' `-')_) ** ** ** || ||||||||||||
** ** ** |||||||||||
The MVS 3.8j ** ** ** ||
Tur(n)key System ** ** ** ||
* **** *** ||||||

TK3 created by Volker Bandke vbandke@...
TK4- update by Juergen Winkelmann winkelmann@...
see TK4-.CREDITS for complete credits

MVS 3.8j Level 8505

Logon ===>
RUNNING
TK4-
=====================8<-----------------------------------------------

Most of the time it works.


HTH


Roxo

--
---------------- Non luctari, ludare -------------------+ WYSIWYG
Fernando M. Roxo da Motta <mvs@...> | Editor?
Except where explicitly stated I speak on my own behalf.| VI !!
PU5RXO | PX5Q6048 | I see text,
------------ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?-------------+ I get text!

Kevin Monceaux wrote:

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 01:43:41PM -0700, Fish Fish wrote:

Posting screenshots is, on the grand scheme of things, NOT that
big of a deal. It's just a minor thing, really.

True, but they might go unnoticed by some. In my plain text e-mail
client I didn't page down far enough when initially reading the OP's
e-mail to notice there were screen shots attached. I went back and
found them after they were mentioned later in the thread.

Same here.

With text, the recipient (i.e. the person reading the post) can
set THEIR email/html client's font to whatever size is convenient
for their aging, visually impaired eyeballs. Can't do that with
screenshots unfortunately.

Perhaps not with your mail client, but you could open the screen
shot(s) in an image viewer and zoom in as needed.

True. But: 1) depending on your image viewer, the more you zoom, the more blurry the text becomes, and: 2) you can't copy "text" from an image, forcing you to manually re-type everything yourself, which is not only a PITA but risks the introduction of typing errors, resulting in much confusion.

Attaching screen shots for actual pictures is fine.

Attaching them for text is not.

At least in my personal opinion anyway.

<shrug>

As I said, no big deal. Just trying to pass on some helpful advice is all.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Fish wrote:
[...]

True. But: 1) depending on your image viewer, the more you zoom,
the more blurry the text becomes, and: 2) you can't copy "text"
from an image, forcing you to manually re-type everything yourself,
which is not only a PITA but risks the introduction of typing
errors, resulting in much confusion.

And I should probably add: 3) for the truly visually impaired, the "text" that may exist in an attached screenshot (image) can't be read by most screen readers (unless you have a really sophisticated screen reader that is able to automatically OCR an image).

I'm not blind myself (just need glasses), but I can imagine the problem such screen shots might impose for those who happen to be legally blind.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Hi!

This topic escalated quickly! hehe...
Well, as suggested, I tried shift + click and I was able to copy from c3270 (also from PuTTy window it allowed me to copy all window log, but is a bit more complex to get a "clean" copy).

Also, from posting images... most of the times they can be zoomed, and also, there are built-in tools such as Microsoft One Note that allows to search directly among images texts (it comes with an OCR, and as our working environment provides high-contrast images, is easy for the tool to search among the text image).

Finally, just to add my two cents, on some comercial software (quick3270, openText, etc), when copying, by default it makes it on image mode, so when you paste the text you copied it just puts an image (you can of course change this behaviour, but the default is "copy as image" :-) )

As I told, I just did it to provide context; I am a bit neurodivergent, and most of the times I cannot focus on just one thing, so my explanations tend to be incomplete and/or hard to understand. By attaching a screenshot, the reader (or viewer) can have a clear context of what's going on and have all details that I (or anyone) can miss to add on the explanation.

I think it's a good point to support a post/bug report/whatever with images, because they can add some value that a 2-page-long paper maybe can't add :-)

THe c3270 is very powerfull 3270 terminal emulator. I use it daily in my job to access z/OS and z/VM sessions and prepared even small macro engine in python to fast enter of user/password (dependent on the session parameters) and even small help tool showing set of commands grouped by domain: VTAM, TSO, TCPIP etc).

It is of course the curses application and grabbing the screen depends on emulator (see Putty copy/paste options or different linux teminals), but it has also own mechanizm to grab the screen.

Look into dokumentation and check PrintText action (see ).

In simple form press Ctrl-] (escape) to go to command mode and type
PrintText(file, c3270.out).

The screen snapshot (in text form) will be saved in current direcory (the directory, where you start c3270).
More advanced operations are also possible (even sending output to the linux pipe).

Another nice feature is running c3270 with http listener.
Run (if? you have emulator on the same machine - replecae 0.0.0.0 by 127.0.0.1)
c3270 -httpd 0.0.0.0:8888 localhost:3270
and go to the browser, put address where terminal is running followed by selected port (here 8888) and you are in remote terminal control channel.

See for example:

http://<emulator-host-ip>:8888/3270/rest/text/Ascii()

From the top page you can just check screen snapshot converted to html:

http://<emulator-host-ip>:8888/3270/screen.html

Anyway I prefer pure text screenshoot, always readable even on mutt or mailx client.

Piotr