On 6/24/20 9:34 PM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:

(Blew your address the first time.? Ooops.)
I had various issues with SYSCPK install and contents.
First, the changes to the JES2 procedure:
* #1 with a bullet
o This (as suggested on
)
won't work:
??? S JES2OLD
JES2OLD is not a registered subsystem, and thus the START
command will hang.
* The JES2 procedure is not modified in a consistent style with
the preexisting statements:
o SYSC.PROCLIB was hardcoded, unlike SYS1.PROCLIB and
SYS2.PROCLIB.
o When combined with #1 above and a user mistake by me (!), my
recovery entailed restoring from my nightly backups.
+ The preferred (and recoverable from) method of adding
the PROCLIB would have been:
+ Adding parameters PC= and VC= (for volume) to the new
library
+ I would also suggest also use of UNIT=SYSDA, not UNIT=3350.
* SYSC.PROCLIB was in front of SYS1.PROCLIB
o This is not acceptable (not on my system!), and a bad
practice in general.? End of the (DD) line, please.
o You could add an alternate PROCLIB DD (/*JOBPARM PROCLIB=SYSC?)
o Are there duplicate names between SYS1.PROCLIB AND SYSC.PROCLIB?
* On a system with dynamic PROCLIB support, is adding SYSC.PROCLIB
directly to JES2 needed at all?? (At cost of an additional line
of JCL, of course.)
SYSC.LINKLIB has multiple minor issues:
* The library seems to be dumping ground for multiple module types; I
would suggest it be audited and replaced with:
o A library for executable language components (under the current
name?)
+ Is there a summary of changes for modules which also in
SYS1.LINKLIB?
o A library for executable utilities
o A library for linkable subroutines
* Adding SYSC.LINKLIB with its 905 members (SYS1.LINKLIB only has 121)
to the APF authorized list is somewhat cavalier.
o Is there a summary of what modules need authorization (and why)?
o I would think once reorganized, only the utilities library needs
APF authorization?
And finally, the VATLST modifier didn't detect SYSCPK was already added to VATLST00, and inserted a duplicate entry.? As (I think) that was the only line modified, the entire step should have been skipped. (Do the other steps have duplicate changes issues as well?

Drew,

I am sure you have some valid points in your list above. The integration job and procedure have not been updated since 2015 and was originally targeted to people who were building a system based on my instructions. It seems most of the people from whom I have feedback about SYSCPK are adding it to z/OS or Turnkey systems and are doing the process manually.

SYSC.LINKLIB on the current SYSCPK contains 805 members according to REVINFO. The vast majority of those are language compilers; just scrolling through the list the largest number are related to PL/1, Simula, RPG, and IFOX00 assembler. Dividing the modules by function would not be a hardship on me, but would overly complicate what was intended only to be a simple way of collecting useful modules in a central location. It was never a design point to consider response time for what is a 'hobby use' system. If anyone is interested in making sub-millisecond response time they are probably more aware than I am as to what changes to make and, in my opinion, are 'tilting at windmills'. The response I receive on my system rivals anything I experienced on real mainframes. I remember one place that was so slow that you would make as many changes on your ISPF screen as you could, then press Enter and take a sip of coffee while it made the round trip to the mainframe and back.

It sounds like you prefer the Dynamic Proclib approach, so that is probably what you should use and integrate the load modules, procedures and library PDSes into your system using the method you prefer. I have tried Brian Westerman's Dynamic Proclib and didn't particularly care for it, although it is included on another page at my site and I heartily recommend it to anyone for whom that approach appeals to them and works for them. I have also backfitted a Usermod to allow SYSC.LINKLIB to be concatenated into the Link List, and it works great for me on my system. Would it work for everyone? Probably not, but the nature of running MVS (or DOS/VS, VM, or MVT) under Hercules is that it is *your* system. You can customize it any way that you prefer.

I will add your list onto the list of things I consider when updating various parts of my site. At the present time if I were updating the SYSCPK page I would probably simply remove the integration instructions/program and leave it to each individual to integrate it as they see fit.

Jay

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:33 PM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:

I lost a moderate amount of work because of having to restore, and I prefer no one else does.

If you had to restore because you had mucked up something in PARMLIB, you have the option to IPL ZZSA, fix whatever (JES2PARM, VATLST00, ...), then try to IPL MVS again.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:57 PM, Mark Waterbury wrote:

For a "free" tool on the CBT Tapes, you could look for "DCMS" -- The "Dirt Cheap Monitor System".

Mark, I looked at DCMS 2.0; on the face of it, it appears to be a precursor to IMON? In anycase, the load modules in FILE245 of CBT tape 227 just throw a SOC3.

Has anyone gotten DCMS working with MVS 3.8J?

On 6/25/20 9:57 AM, Mark Waterbury wrote:

Drew,

From that time period when MVS 3.8J was still "current" and actively in use -- perhaps it might have been a product like "MICS" or "OMEGAMON" that you recall?

OMEGAMON sticks in my head, but I don't trust my memory on the topic.

I DO remember that both the old and new commands used non-alphabetic characters.

--
Drew Derbyshire

"She was married when we first met | Both agreeing it was best
Soon to be divorced | She turned around to look at me
I helped her out of a jam I guess | As I was walking away
But I used a little too much force | I heard her say over my shoulder
We drove that car as far as we | We'll meet again some day on the
could | avenue
Abandoned it out west | Tangled up in blue . . ."
Split up on a dark sad night | -- Bob Dylan

On 6/25/20 3:36 AM, Joe Monk wrote:

While Jay Moseley does not need defending, the procedure was written to be compatible with his MVS build.

This is not accurate.? To quote "In order to be compatible with the largest number of Hercules/MVS users ...".? Clearly Jay is targeting a wide audience.

Because he is targeting a wide audience including older (out of date) systems, much of the content on the pack is redundant for a TK3UPD system.? This is to be expected and is harmless.? But I didn't even mention fact in that my original note. (That's not a bug, it's a feature!)

Also, I did not comment on what he got right (I would have been here all night), for example making SYSC.LINKLIB a STEPLIB rather than adding it to the system link list.

If you are using his procedure?with another system like TK3UPD (which last I heard has questionable legs anyway, because Phil decided to claim copyright over the whole thing),

In an earlier thread discussing my need to apply service, it was pointed out that TK3UPD was the basis for MVS380 and TK4-; those questionable legs have traveled, to say the least.

of there will be a need to modify the install procedures.

In what way?

What I reported were not customization issues, but rather a failure to follow best? practices.? (The order of PROCLIB entries can be argued ... but not the system failing to start!)

So, when viewed thru that lens, none of these changes are either unusual or unnecessary. Every system takes some customization.

My original tone, which I am sticking by, is that on any MVS system (including Jay's) the original approaches are not best practices and they should be corrected.

For example, if one generating new entries for VATLST, one should verify they are, in fact, new.? And "S JES2OLD" just won't work.

I lost a moderate amount of work because of having to restore, and I prefer no one else does.

-ahd-

--
Drew Derbyshire

"Ain't there one damn song that can me break down and cry?"
-- David Bowie

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--
att.
Jo?o

Drew,

From that time period when MVS 3.8J was still "current" and actively in use -- perhaps it might have been a product like "MICS" or "OMEGAMON" that you recall?

For a "free" tool on the CBT Tapes, you could look for "DCMS" -- The "Dirt Cheap Monitor System".

Hope that helps,

Mark S. Waterbury

CMD1?

Recently (past few months) I dimly recall seeing an add-in package for MVS 3.8 which used commands like *Q on something like the CBT site.

It reminded me of (and may have been) a third party product that I saw when my 1980's employer trialed? but didn't buy.

Does anyone remember such package from the olden days, or even better know where it is now?

-ahd-

--
Drew Derbyshire

"He wants to dream like a young man
With the wisdom of an old man
He wants his home and security
He wants to live like a sailor at sea. . ." -- Bob Seger

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I had various issues with SYSCPK install and contents.

First, the changes to the JES2 procedure:

• #1 with a bullet
• This (as suggested on ) won't work:
  ??? S JES2OLD
  JES2OLD is not a registered subsystem, and thus the START command will hang.
  
• The JES2 procedure is not modified in a consistent style with the preexisting statements:
• SYSC.PROCLIB was hardcoded, unlike SYS1.PROCLIB and SYS2.PROCLIB.?
  
• When combined with #1 above and a user mistake by me (!), my recovery entailed restoring from my nightly backups.?
  
• The preferred (and recoverable from) method of adding the PROCLIB would have been:
• Adding parameters PC= and VC= (for volume) to the new library
• I would also suggest also use of UNIT=SYSDA, not UNIT=3350.
  
• SYSC.PROCLIB was in front of SYS1.PROCLIB
• This is not acceptable (not on my system!), and a bad practice in general.? End of the (DD) line, please.
• You could add an alternate PROCLIB DD (/*JOBPARM PROCLIB=SYSC?)
• Are there duplicate names between SYS1.PROCLIB AND SYSC.PROCLIB?
  
• On a system with dynamic PROCLIB support, is adding SYSC.PROCLIB directly to JES2 needed at all?? (At cost of an additional line of JCL, of course.)
  

SYSC.LINKLIB has multiple minor issues:

• The library seems to be dumping ground for multiple module types; I would suggest it be audited and replaced with:
  
• A library for executable language components (under the current name?)
• Is there a summary of changes for modules which also in SYS1.LINKLIB?
  
• A library for executable utilities
  
• A library for linkable subroutines
  
• Adding SYSC.LINKLIB with its 905 members (SYS1.LINKLIB only has 121) to the APF authorized list is somewhat cavalier.?
  
• Is there a summary of what modules need authorization (and why)?
  
• I would think once reorganized, only the utilities library needs APF authorization?
  

And finally, the VATLST modifier didn't detect SYSCPK was already added to VATLST00, and inserted a duplicate entry.? As (I think) that was the only line modified, the entire step should have been skipped. (Do the other steps have duplicate changes issues as well?

-- 
Drew Derbyshire

Mobile: 425-471-8183

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
 nothing."

Hi Fellows,

?

Please, I’d like to know how can I create thesse tables.

?

Could u help me

?

Cheers

?

Dylson from Brazil.

IEFUTIL !!!

--
Drew Derbyshire

Mobile: 425-471-8183

"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into
mine" -- "Casablanca"

Can't help with the SMF
exit, but must complement the sig...

The timeout exit is IEHUTL. There is a sample for IEHUTL in SYS1.SAMPLIB.? It's enabled by the SMF member of SYS1.PARMLIB.

As I recall, it was modified at my first employer (read: long ago and far away) so that JOBs pulled a S522 ABEND after the configured amount (15 minutes?) but TSO users had longer (an hour?)

Is an active version of IEHUTL installed by default?? If so, where do the IEHUTIL source and object live?

--
Drew Derbyshire

Mobile: 425-471-8183

"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."

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On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 03:41 PM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:

Create a empty dasd loaded 3350, and try to allocate a file via batch.? I can't do an example now, but if you want one later I can.

Just tried it; it works. Here was the .ctl file

drew 3350
vtoc vtoc cyl 2

did a 'dasdload drew.ctl drew.3350'

did this at the Hercules console
attach 721 3350 scratch/drew.3350

did a
m 721,vol=(sl,drew),use=private

Responded with '721' when prompted with
15.59.43 STC 2166? IEF244I MOUNT 721 - UNABLE TO ALLOCATE 1 UNIT(S)??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????? AT LEAST 1 OFFLINE UNIT(S) NEEDED.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
15.59.43 STC 2166? IEF489I MOUNT - 1 UNIT(S) NEEDED FOR IEFRDER??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
15.59.43 STC 2166? IEF247I MOUNT - 721 OFFLINE???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
15.59.43 STC 2166 *13 IEF238D MOUNT - REPLY DEVICE NAME OR 'CANCEL'.?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

mount command completed, and I was able to place datasets on volume 'DREW' w/ both RFE and a batch job:

//WEGSCDCC JOB (DOUG,5278),CREATE.FILE,CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=X?????????????? 00000100
//CLEANUP EXEC PGM=IEFBR14????????????????????????????????????????????? 00000200
//CREATE??? DD DSN=DREW.TEST1,DISP=(NEW,CATLG,DELETE),UNIT=3350,??????? 00000300
//???????????? SPACE=(CYL,(50,20),RLSE),VOL=SER=DREW,?????????????????? 00000400
//???????????? DCB=(RECFM=VBS,LRECL=8000,BLKSIZE=16000)???????????????? 00000500

_._,_._,_

Looks valid.? I duplicate what you did and then try my slightly different variation.

-- 
Drew Derbyshire

". . . You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one
 nuclear weapon and a thing that has two hundred thousand moving parts
 built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good doesn't it?"
                                            -- "Armageddon"

--