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MTS Fans,
I started getting to know MTS quite a while back, then put it on the back
burner awaiting the 1996 system release. Now I'd forgotten what I'd learned
about MTS. I haven't heard anything about the 1996 system release lately.
Has any progress been made on the release?
--
Kevin
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding your question, but builds on archive.michigan-terminal-system.org go up to D6.0A, dated 18 January 2012, including Hercules configuration.? D6.0A is a patched version (mostly for Hercules compatibility) of D6.0 from 1988.
Also a good starting point seems to be?
I just happened to be googling this all up as I was thinking about setting up an MTS or MUSIC/SP VM.? Too bad that? MUSIC/SP doesn't have TCP/IP under Hercules, as far as I can tell.
Apologies if I'm just repeating what you already know.
Scott
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Scott, On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 01:59:21PM -0700, Scott Stillwell via groups.io wrote: I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding your question, but builds on
archive.michigan-terminal-system.org go up to D6.0A, dated 18 January
2012, including Hercules configuration.? D6.0A is a patched version
(mostly for Hercules compatibility) of D6.0 from 1988. I have the available D6.0 releases. I was referring to the future release based on the 1996 system. A little info from the FAQ: Q7: Is D6.0 the latest or final version of MTS? A7: No. D6.0 is the last formal distribution of MTS. It was sent out in 1988. MTS continued to be developed and used at the University of Michigan (U-M) until 1996 and at RPI until 1999. While there is no distribution for later versions of MTS, work is being done now to create an IPLable version of MTS based on the system that was running at U-M in 1996 shortly before MTS was shutdown for the last time. While we don't know exactly when that version of MTS will be available, there is hope that it will be sometime in the first half of 2012. -- Kevin Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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Music SP is really easy to get running under Hercules.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Scott Stillwell via groups.io" <scottstillwell@...> Date: 28/04/2020 22:05 (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] 1996 System Release Status?
I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding your question, but builds on archive.michigan-terminal-system.org go up to D6.0A, dated 18 January 2012, including Hercules configuration.? D6.0A is a patched version (mostly for Hercules compatibility) of D6.0 from 1988. Also a good starting point seems to be? I just happened to be googling this all up as I was thinking about setting up an MTS or MUSIC/SP VM.? Too bad that? MUSIC/SP doesn't have TCP/IP under Hercules, as far as I can tell. Apologies if I'm just repeating what you already know. Scott
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6.0A seems to be what you want, then.? Its release date in 2012 matches up with their expectation of "sometime in the first half of 2012".
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Does it have TCP/IP under Hercules?? The MUSIC/SP docs on the maintainer's site mentions an incompatibility because of incomplete IUCV instruction implementation in Hercules, but it does look like at least some work was done to Hercules after that document was written.
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Scott, On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 02:17:10PM -0700, Scott Stillwell via groups.io wrote: 6.0A seems to be what you want, then.? Its release date in 2012 matches up
with their expectation of "sometime in the first half of 2012". No, I already have the D6.0A release. The FAQ question/answer I quoted in my previous reply is included in the D6.0A README file. D6.0A != D1996.0. Another question/answer from the FAQ: Q9: Should someone wait for the 1996 IPLable version or start working with the D6.0 or D6.0A versions now? A9: This will depend on how much time you have, how much effort you want to put into getting a version of MTS running, and how soon you want to be able to run MTS. Getting MTS working from scratch using D6.0 will take much more effort than working with the D6.0A or the D1996.0 IPLable system when it becomes available. For many people installing the D6.0 starter system from "tape" is likely to be a frustrating experience. There are certainly bugs in the D6.0 version that were fixed after D6.0 was released in 1988. The D6.0A IPLable version should be available sometime during January 2012. It isn't yet clear exactly how long it will take to make the D1996.0 IPLable version of MTS available, but it is likely to take several months and possibly longer. Some people will want the experience of making a version of MTS available from "scratch" and so will be happy to start working with D6.0 now. Others will want to skip that work and will use the D6.0A version or the D1996.0 IPLable version when it is available. -- Kevin Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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{off-topic}?
I have been running MUSIC/SP under Hercules with TCP support for about six months now.? There is a patch to SpinHawk that allow tcp support via Hercules.? So MUSIC/SP seems to working fine.? I do think there is a bug, because after multiple ftp's from MUSIC/SP it does fail.\\ Tom Chandler
T
T
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 4:04 PM Scott Stillwell via <scottstillwell= [email protected]> wrote: I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding your question, but builds on go up to D6.0A, dated 18 January 2012, including Hercules configuration.? D6.0A is a patched version (mostly for Hercules compatibility) of D6.0 from 1988.
Also a good starting point seems to be?
I just happened to be googling this all up as I was thinking about setting up an MTS or MUSIC/SP VM.? Too bad that? MUSIC/SP doesn't have TCP/IP under Hercules, as far as I can tell.
Apologies if I'm just repeating what you already know.
Scott
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On 4/28/20 2:13 PM, Tom Chandler wrote:
{off-topic}?
I have been running MUSIC/SP under Hercules with TCP
support for about six months now.? There is a patch to
SpinHawk that
allow tcp support via Hercules.? So MUSIC/SP seems to
working fine.? I do think there is a bug, because after
multiple ftp's
from MUSIC/SP it does fail.\\
Tom Chandler
T
T
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 4:04
PM Scott Stillwell via <scottstillwell= [email protected]>
wrote:
I'm
not sure if i'm misunderstanding your question, but builds on
go up to D6.0A, dated 18 January 2012, including Hercules
configuration.? D6.0A is a patched version (mostly for
Hercules compatibility) of D6.0 from 1988.
Also a good starting point seems to be?
I just happened to be googling this all up as I was thinking
about setting up an MTS or MUSIC/SP VM.? Too bad that?
MUSIC/SP doesn't have TCP/IP under Hercules, as far as I can
tell.
Apologies if I'm just repeating what you already know.
Scott
_._
Which MUSIC/SP -- S/370 or XA?
--
Drew Derbyshire
The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the
center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South
Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South
End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End.
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On 28 Apr 2020, at 17:26, Kevin Monceaux wrote:
Scott,
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 02:17:10PM -0700, Scott Stillwell via groups.io wrote:
6.0A seems to be what you want, then.? Its release date in 2012 matches up
with their expectation of "sometime in the first half of 2012".
No, I already have the D6.0A release. The FAQ question/answer I quoted in my
previous reply is included in the D6.0A README file. D6.0A != D1996.0.
Another question/answer from the FAQ:
Unfortunately nothing much has been done about this in quite a while. The good news is that several of us who have to do the work to get it out were talking about it the other day. Perhaps something will happen while we're all stuck at home.
One good thing is that if we get this out it will likely have TCP/IP support given the correct updates to Hercules. The version I have includes an FTP client and server as well as network printing to a Postscript printer attached to my Mac. This is done by adding emulation of the network interface devices MTS used for this in the past to Hercules.
Keep pushing, I really hope it gets done.
Mike
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On Apr 28, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Mike Alexander < mta@...> wrote:
On 28 Apr 2020, at 17:26, Kevin Monceaux wrote:
Scott,
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 02:17:10PM -0700, Scott Stillwell via wrote:
6.0A seems to be what you want, then.? Its release date in 2012 matches up
with their expectation of "sometime in the first half of 2012".
No, I already have the D6.0A release. The FAQ question/answer I quoted in my
previous reply is included in the D6.0A README file. D6.0A != D1996.0.
Another question/answer from the FAQ:
Unfortunately nothing much has been done about this in quite a while. The good news is that several of us who have to do the work to get it out were talking about it the other day. Perhaps something will happen while we're all stuck at home. One good thing is that if we get this out it will likely have TCP/IP support given the correct updates to Hercules. The version I have includes an FTP client and server as well as network printing to a Postscript printer attached to my Mac. This is done by adding emulation of the network interface devices MTS used for this in the past to Hercules. Keep pushing, I really hope it gets done.
That’s great to hear, Mike! I think I might have been the author of some of that FTP code, while I was still an undergrad at RPI. It’d be fun to get that working again here at some point. I also did an rlogin implementation and an NFS implementation, though I’m not sure whether that code ever made it to other MTS sites.
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On 28 Apr 2020, at 23:33, Ron Frederick wrote:
That’s great to hear, Mike! I think I might have been the author of some of that FTP code, while I was still an undergrad at RPI. It’d be fun to get that working again here at some point. I also did an rlogin implementation and an NFS implementation, though I’m not sure whether that code ever made it to other MTS sites.
I don't remember seeing rlogin or NFS code, but after nearly 25 years I can't be sure. The most likely place to find it would be on the redistribution tapes, but, unfortunately, they were all or mostly lost. [Redistribution tapes were a way for MTS sites to share stuff before the Internet. Everyone would send tapes of interesting stuff to Michigan and we would combine them all onto one tape and send a copy to everyone. There was no attempt to review or integrate anything.]
Mike
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Mike, On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 08:22:49PM -0400, Mike Alexander wrote: One good thing is that if we get this out it will likely have TCP/IP
support given the correct updates to Hercules. The version I have
includes an FTP client and server as well as network printing to a
Postscript printer attached to my Mac. This is done by adding emulation
of the network interface devices MTS used for this in the past to
Hercules. It sounds like it will be worth the wait. -- Kevin Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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On Apr 28, 2020, at 9:29 PM, Mike Alexander < mta@...> wrote: On 28 Apr 2020, at 23:33, Ron Frederick wrote:
That’s great to hear, Mike! I think I might have been the author of some of that FTP code, while I was still an undergrad at RPI. It’d be fun to get that working again here at some point. I also did an rlogin implementation and an NFS implementation, though I’m not sure whether that code ever made it to other MTS sites.
I don't remember seeing rlogin or NFS code, but after nearly 25 years I can't be sure. The most likely place to find it would be on the redistribution tapes, but, unfortunately, they were all or mostly lost. [Redistribution tapes were a way for MTS sites to share stuff before the Internet. Everyone would send tapes of interesting stuff to Michigan and we would combine them all onto one tape and send a copy to everyone. There was no attempt to review or integrate anything.]
Yeah - I remember us doing that with FTP, but I’m not sure some of the other Internet apps I wrote ever got shared beyond RPI. Unfortunately, I don’t have any of that code any more. I do still keep in touch with folks at RPI who worked on MTS there, but I’m not sure if anyone preserved any of that code.
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On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 08:22:49PM -0400, Mike Alexander wrote: Unfortunately nothing much has been done about this in quite a while.
The good news is that several of us who have to do the work to get it
out were talking about it the other day. Perhaps something will happen
while we're all stuck at home.
One good thing is that if we get this out it will likely have TCP/IP
support given the correct updates to Hercules. The version I have
includes an FTP client and server as well as network printing to a
Postscript printer attached to my Mac. This is done by adding emulation
of the network interface devices MTS used for this in the past to
Hercules.
Keep pushing, I really hope it gets done. Has any progress been made on the 1996 system release? -- Kevin Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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Ron Frederick