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Re: archive.michigan-terminal-system.org seems to have been deleted from Google Sites...

 

On 9 Mar 2023, at 20:45, John Palmer wrote:

Yup – just wanted to alert someone in case something was deleted by accident.
Thanks for letting us know. We have our own archive of it so it won't be lost.

Mike
Re: archive.michigan-terminal-system.org seems to have been deleted from Google Sites...

 

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Yup – just wanted to alert someone in case something was deleted by accident.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark Waterbury
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 19:36
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] archive.michigan-terminal-system.org seems to have been deleted from Google Sites...

?

You can always use the Internet Wayback machine at archive.org ...

See:
? ? ??

for example.

Re: archive.michigan-terminal-system.org seems to have been deleted from Google Sites...

 

You can always use the Internet Wayback machine at archive.org ...

See:
? ? ??

for example.
archive.michigan-terminal-system.org seems to have been deleted from Google Sites...

 

开云体育

Looks like the archive site is gone, unless I am using the wrong URL…
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 


sir,
I would very interested, if possible.

Thank you
tom c


On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 11:15?AM John Palmer <jpalmer@...> wrote:

If you guys want anyone to test Confer out on 6.0, I can do so if someone can copy the files into an .AWS tape file.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Alexander
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 16:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of serveral things

?

Most of these issues would be addressed by a release of the 1996 system (maybe D7.0). You're more or less right about the status of various pieces of software. PascalJB would be easy to install, but Confer requires a bit more work since it requires various userIDs and files in obscure locations. I know that Jeff Ogden has looked into this and thinks it is possible, but it hasn't been done.

There is no interest in MTS at UM and no one is running or studying it officially. Most people aren't aware that it existed. I don't know if there is any interest in Software Archaeology here. A couple of years ago I gave a short talk in Newcastle about the history of MTS. I know the CS department there has a significant interest in the history of IT. II was impressed that the Mayor of Newcastle attended, complete with his regalia, and said he remembered using MTS when he aws a student at Newcastle.

Thanks for nudging me about the 1996 system. I really want to get that done but I have a few higher priority things to clear up first.

Mike

On 26 Feb 2023, at 15:15, John Palmer wrote:

I saw an e-mail posted on the MTS archive site from Bon Parnes (Confer creator) that seemed to indicate that he was OK with distributing Confer to people. Is there any way we could get an .AWS file with the Confer program components?

?

I was also wondering about Fortran 77 (*FTNVS) and Pascal VS. I imagine that those are probably still protected IBM property and are probably in the same boat as *ASMH. ??If Pascal VS or *FTNVS are available, it would be cool if we could get those somehow as well.

?

I also understand that the creator of *PascalJB has indicated that it can be made available as well.

?

I was wondering, in general, what is the status of MTS at U of M? Does U of M have any official instances of MTS running under Hercules?

?

I know that there is a new sub-field of CS called “Software Archaeology” that studies older software systems (for various reasons) – someone did a PHD on this recently. I was wondering if maybe the CS department had it running.

?

Sill anxiously awaiting the release of “d7.0”. I know a lot of people are doing this work on a voluntary basis, and we all appreciate that a lot.

?

Thanks

John
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

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If you guys want anyone to test Confer out on 6.0, I can do so if someone can copy the files into an .AWS tape file.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Alexander
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 16:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of serveral things

?

Most of these issues would be addressed by a release of the 1996 system (maybe D7.0). You're more or less right about the status of various pieces of software. PascalJB would be easy to install, but Confer requires a bit more work since it requires various userIDs and files in obscure locations. I know that Jeff Ogden has looked into this and thinks it is possible, but it hasn't been done.

There is no interest in MTS at UM and no one is running or studying it officially. Most people aren't aware that it existed. I don't know if there is any interest in Software Archaeology here. A couple of years ago I gave a short talk in Newcastle about the history of MTS. I know the CS department there has a significant interest in the history of IT. II was impressed that the Mayor of Newcastle attended, complete with his regalia, and said he remembered using MTS when he aws a student at Newcastle.

Thanks for nudging me about the 1996 system. I really want to get that done but I have a few higher priority things to clear up first.

Mike

On 26 Feb 2023, at 15:15, John Palmer wrote:

I saw an e-mail posted on the MTS archive site from Bon Parnes (Confer creator) that seemed to indicate that he was OK with distributing Confer to people. Is there any way we could get an .AWS file with the Confer program components?

?

I was also wondering about Fortran 77 (*FTNVS) and Pascal VS. I imagine that those are probably still protected IBM property and are probably in the same boat as *ASMH. ??If Pascal VS or *FTNVS are available, it would be cool if we could get those somehow as well.

?

I also understand that the creator of *PascalJB has indicated that it can be made available as well.

?

I was wondering, in general, what is the status of MTS at U of M? Does U of M have any official instances of MTS running under Hercules?

?

I know that there is a new sub-field of CS called “Software Archaeology” that studies older software systems (for various reasons) – someone did a PHD on this recently. I was wondering if maybe the CS department had it running.

?

Sill anxiously awaiting the release of “d7.0”. I know a lot of people are doing this work on a voluntary basis, and we all appreciate that a lot.

?

Thanks

John
Re: Question about the availability of several things

Drew Derbyshire
 

gotta love security.?

The LCM+L does have a skeleton staff (I'm not part of it) and many systems (some emulated) are accessible by "ssh?menu@..."

Should be menu @ tty.livingcomputers.org
Re: Question about the availability of several things

Drew Derbyshire
 

Does the LCM even exist anymore? iIRC, the folks who control the Allen estate used COVID as an excuse kill off all of Paul's passion projects including the the LCM and the Seattle Cinerama theater.

As near I can tell, the division is dormant, not dead. Various news reports have pointed out the estate is to be disposed of with the profits going to Paul Allen's passion projects (???), but for example one does not run randomly a yard sale at Lumen Field to turn the Seahawks into cash.? And in fact, the estate needs to hold on to to the team for another year:?

The LCM+L does have a skeleton staff (I'm not part of it) and many systems (some emulated) are accessible by "ssh?menu@..."

Your friendly 4361 valet,

-ahd-

p.s. my standard disclaimer: (All together now …) I do not work for the LCM+L and I do not speak for them.
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

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Thanks – found it. Works great – searching the system for documentation. I need to know how to call system subroutines from Pascal.

?

I know that with *PascalVS, ?you declared them as “Fortran” instead of “External” to make it use the proper calling convention. Not sure what the syntax is for UBC Pascal.

?

John

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Rob Ballantyne
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 17:41
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of several things

?

I think you can find UBC Pascal (which I recall using as an undergraduate in the early 1980s) in the UNSP: directory.? I don't have my MTS running currently but UNSP:PAS.BC seems familiar.

?

Rob

?

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:22 PM John Palmer <jpalmer@...> wrote:

I think the U of M has an original license. They had to make some modifications to use it on MTS.? I understand that it’s no longer sold by IBM anymore but they still own the copyright on it and do not usually release those, even if there is no chance that it can make them money anymore.

?

I think the Pascal VS and Fortran 77 compilers are also IBM property, so we can’t get those either.

?

John

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marco Antoniotti
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 23:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of several things

?

Hi

?

I am just a lurker here.? I had a thought… is there anyone who can legally run ASMH on MTS?

?

I presume so…?

?

All the?best

?

Marco

?

--

Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the Rainbow
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

Well, Vulcan is still managing an instance of Hercules...that's about it. I'm told the collection is safe, for the time being. But given that the aircraft museum was sold off, that doesn't bode well for the hardware at LCM.

-Dave

On 2/28/23 11:20, Michael Kerpan wrote:
Does the LCM even exist anymore? iIRC, the folks who control the Allen estate used COVID as an excuse kill off all of Paul's passion projects including the the LCM and the Seattle Cinerama theater.
Mike
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 10:55 AM Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@... <mailto:swhobbit@...>> wrote:
Note that the LCM+L has VS FORTRAN (Fortran 77) on the IBM 4361
running VM/SP.
-ahd-
p.s. /my standard disclaimer:/ I do not work for the LCM+L and I do
not speak for them.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

Does the LCM even exist anymore? iIRC, the folks who control the Allen estate used COVID as an excuse kill off all of Paul's passion projects including the the LCM and the Seattle Cinerama theater.

Mike

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 10:55 AM Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...> wrote:

Note that the LCM+L has VS FORTRAN (Fortran 77) on the IBM 4361 running VM/SP.

-ahd-

p.s. my standard disclaimer: I do not work for the LCM+L and I do not speak for them.
Re: Question about the availability of several things

Drew Derbyshire
 

Note that the LCM+L has VS FORTRAN (Fortran 77) on the IBM 4361 running VM/SP.

-ahd-

p.s. my standard disclaimer: I do not work for the LCM+L and I do not speak for them.
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

Thanks.

Therefore, somebody with a UoM affiliation could - in principle - run ASMH to recompile bits and pieces of MTS (e.g., introducing a way to read the list of disks/devices from a a file, or whatever).? I presume that that's the way it is if a 7.0 is to be produced.

All the best

Marco
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

I think you can find UBC Pascal (which I recall using as an undergraduate in the early 1980s) in the UNSP: directory.? I don't have my MTS running currently but UNSP:PAS.BC seems familiar.

Rob

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:22 PM John Palmer <jpalmer@...> wrote:

I think the U of M has an original license. They had to make some modifications to use it on MTS.? I understand that it’s no longer sold by IBM anymore but they still own the copyright on it and do not usually release those, even if there is no chance that it can make them money anymore.

?

I think the Pascal VS and Fortran 77 compilers are also IBM property, so we can’t get those either.

?

John

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marco Antoniotti
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 23:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of several things

?

Hi

?

I am just a lurker here.? I had a thought… is there anyone who can legally run ASMH on MTS?

?

I presume so…?

?

All the?best

?

Marco

?

--

Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the Rainbow
Re: Question about the availability of several things

Ray Jewhurst
 

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Would it be possible though to port f2c and it's frontend fort77 to either MTS or MVS? I know that dialect is more DECish not mainframe but it would give you functionality.

Ray

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of John Palmer <jpalmer@...>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 2:17:33 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of several things
?

I think the U of M has an original license. They had to make some modifications to use it on MTS. ?I understand that it’s no longer sold by IBM anymore but they still own the copyright on it and do not usually release those, even if there is no chance that it can make them money anymore.

?

I think the Pascal VS and Fortran 77 compilers are also IBM property, so we can’t get those either.

?

John

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marco Antoniotti
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 23:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of several things

?

Hi

?

I am just a lurker here.? I had a thought… is there anyone who can legally run ASMH on MTS?

?

I presume so…?

?

All the?best

?

Marco

?

--

Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the Rainbow
Re: Question about the availability of several things

 

开云体育

I think the U of M has an original license. They had to make some modifications to use it on MTS. ?I understand that it’s no longer sold by IBM anymore but they still own the copyright on it and do not usually release those, even if there is no chance that it can make them money anymore.

?

I think the Pascal VS and Fortran 77 compilers are also IBM property, so we can’t get those either.

?

John

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marco Antoniotti
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 23:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of several things

?

Hi

?

I am just a lurker here.? I had a thought… is there anyone who can legally run ASMH on MTS?

?

I presume so…?

?

All the?best

?

Marco

?

--

Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the Rainbow
Re: Question about the availability of serval things

 

Hi

I am just a lurker here.? I had a thought… is there anyone who can legally run ASMH on MTS?

I presume so…?

All the?best

Marco

--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the Rainbow
Re: Question about the availability of serval things

 

开云体育

Thanks for all the efforts.

?

I kind of figured that Pascal VS and Fortran 77 were in the same boat as *ASMH.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Alexander
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 16:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Question about the availability of serval things

?

Most of these issues would be addressed by a release of the 1996 system (maybe D7.0). You're more or less right about the status of various pieces of software. PascalJB would be easy to install, but Confer requires a bit more work since it requires various userIDs and files in obscure locations. I know that Jeff Ogden has looked into this and thinks it is possible, but it hasn't been done.

There is no interest in MTS at UM and no one is running or studying it officially. Most people aren't aware that it existed. I don't know if there is any interest in Software Archaeology here. A couple of years ago I gave a short talk in Newcastle about the history of MTS. I know the CS department there has a significant interest in the history of IT. II was impressed that the Mayor of Newcastle attended, complete with his regalia, and said he remembered using MTS when he aws a student at Newcastle.

Thanks for nudging me about the 1996 system. I really want to get that done but I have a few higher priority things to clear up first.

Mike

On 26 Feb 2023, at 15:15, John Palmer wrote:

I saw an e-mail posted on the MTS archive site from Bon Parnes (Confer creator) that seemed to indicate that he was OK with distributing Confer to people. Is there any way we could get an .AWS file with the Confer program components?

?

I was also wondering about Fortran 77 (*FTNVS) and Pascal VS. I imagine that those are probably still protected IBM property and are probably in the same boat as *ASMH. ??If Pascal VS or *FTNVS are available, it would be cool if we could get those somehow as well.

?

I also understand that the creator of *PascalJB has indicated that it can be made available as well.

?

I was wondering, in general, what is the status of MTS at U of M? Does U of M have any official instances of MTS running under Hercules?

?

I know that there is a new sub-field of CS called “Software Archaeology” that studies older software systems (for various reasons) – someone did a PHD on this recently. I was wondering if maybe the CS department had it running.

?

Sill anxiously awaiting the release of “d7.0”. I know a lot of people are doing this work on a voluntary basis, and we all appreciate that a lot.

?

Thanks

John
Re: Question about the availability of serval things

 

开云体育

Most of these issues would be addressed by a release of the 1996 system (maybe D7.0). You're more or less right about the status of various pieces of software. PascalJB would be easy to install, but Confer requires a bit more work since it requires various userIDs and files in obscure locations. I know that Jeff Ogden has looked into this and thinks it is possible, but it hasn't been done.

There is no interest in MTS at UM and no one is running or studying it officially. Most people aren't aware that it existed. I don't know if there is any interest in Software Archaeology here. A couple of years ago I gave a short talk in Newcastle about the history of MTS. I know the CS department there has a significant interest in the history of IT. II was impressed that the Mayor of Newcastle attended, complete with his regalia, and said he remembered using MTS when he aws a student at Newcastle.

Thanks for nudging me about the 1996 system. I really want to get that done but I have a few higher priority things to clear up first.

Mike

On 26 Feb 2023, at 15:15, John Palmer wrote:

I saw an e-mail posted on the MTS archive site from Bon Parnes (Confer creator) that seemed to indicate that he was OK with distributing Confer to people. Is there any way we could get an .AWS file with the Confer program components?

?

I was also wondering about Fortran 77 (*FTNVS) and Pascal VS. I imagine that those are probably still protected IBM property and are probably in the same boat as *ASMH. ??If Pascal VS or *FTNVS are available, it would be cool if we could get those somehow as well.

?

I also understand that the creator of *PascalJB has indicated that it can be made available as well.

?

I was wondering, in general, what is the status of MTS at U of M? Does U of M have any official instances of MTS running under Hercules?

?

I know that there is a new sub-field of CS called “Software Archaeology” that studies older software systems (for various reasons) – someone did a PHD on this recently. I was wondering if maybe the CS department had it running.

?

Sill anxiously awaiting the release of “d7.0”. I know a lot of people are doing this work on a voluntary basis, and we all appreciate that a lot.

?

Thanks

John
Question about the availability of serval things

 

开云体育

I saw an e-mail posted on the MTS archive site from Bon Parnes (Confer creator) that seemed to indicate that he was OK with distributing Confer to people. Is there any way we could get an .AWS file with the Confer program components?

?

I was also wondering about Fortran 77 (*FTNVS) and Pascal VS. I imagine that those are probably still protected IBM property and are probably in the same boat as *ASMH. ??If Pascal VS or *FTNVS are available, it would be cool if we could get those somehow as well.

?

I also understand that the creator of *PascalJB has indicated that it can be made available as well.

?

I was wondering, in general, what is the status of MTS at U of M? Does U of M have any official instances of MTS running under Hercules?

?

I know that there is a new sub-field of CS called “Software Archaeology” that studies older software systems (for various reasons) – someone did a PHD on this recently. I was wondering if maybe the CS department had it running.

?

Sill anxiously awaiting the release of “d7.0”. I know a lot of people are doing this work on a voluntary basis, and we all appreciate that a lot.

?

Thanks

John
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