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z Architecture Mode
开云体育Folks, ? Does anyone know how to configure Hercules to allow an IPL in z Architecture mode. ? John Rankin |
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Version 3.x of hercules: ARCHMODE z/ARCH ? ? Version 4.x of hercules: ARCHLVL z/ARCH ?? Joe On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 2:48 PM John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote:
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开云体育Joe, ? Thank you for the quick response.? However, z/Arch mode ipls in ESA and then switches to z mode.? I’m looking for the ability to IPL in z mode. ? John ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Joe Monk <joemonk64@...> ? Version 3.x of hercules: ARCHMODE z/ARCH ? ? Version 4.x of hercules: ARCHLVL z/ARCH ?? ? Joe ? On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 2:48 PM John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote:
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John Rankin wrote:
Thank you for the quick response. However, z/Arch mode iplsThe ability to do that requires support for the Configuration-z/Architecture-Architectural-Mode (CZAM) Facility, which Hercules does not currently support: * * You CAN of course do a RESTART directly in z/Architecture mode of course. All it takes is a proper z/Arch PSW placed at low core address X'1A0' followed by a Restart Interrupt (i.e. the Hercules "restart" command). We do it all the time in many of our stand-alone integrity tests in our "tests" subdirectory. But to actually be able to *IPL* directly in z/Architecture mode? Nope. We don't support that yet. Sorry! :( p.s. Why is this question being asked here in this forum? z/Architecture mode has absolutely nothing to do with DOS/VS! -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Thank you.
By the way. Linux on Z requires an IPL in z mode. But that is just a side note. The reason I mentioned it here, is because my company owns MVT, and we are working on a z/MVT. If you don't recall MVT, it was a competitive operating system to VSE. John ?On 10/13/22, 8:30 PM, "Fish Fish" <[email protected] on behalf of david.b.trout@...> wrote: John Rankin wrote: > Thank you for the quick response. However, z/Arch mode ipls > in ESA and then switches to z mode. I’m looking for the ability > to IPL in z mode. The ability to do that requires support for the Configuration-z/Architecture-Architectural-Mode (CZAM) Facility, which Hercules does not currently support: * * You CAN of course do a RESTART directly in z/Architecture mode of course. All it takes is a proper z/Arch PSW placed at low core address X'1A0' followed by a Restart Interrupt (i.e. the Hercules "restart" command). We do it all the time in many of our stand-alone integrity tests in our "tests" subdirectory. But to actually be able to *IPL* directly in z/Architecture mode? Nope. We don't support that yet. Sorry! :( p.s. Why is this question being asked here in this forum? z/Architecture mode has absolutely nothing to do with DOS/VS! -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 at 20:57, John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote: ? By the way. Linux on Z requires an IPL in z mode.? But that is just a side note. I certainly remember MVT, but I suspect that we're talking about different OSs. The MVT I knew was a direct predecessor to SVS and then more distantly MVS, and was one of the branches of OS/360, alongside PCP and MFT. Of course it didn't do virtual storage. Naming a competitor to VSE "MVT" seems like a strange choice to me... Tony H. |
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On Thu, 2022-10-13 at 20:57 -0400, John Rankin wrote:
Thank you.If you are seriously working on z/MVT then it is a small step to placing the ESA/390 mode (at IPL) into z mode. These two macros from the Stand Alone Tool Kit (SATK) will do the job. ZARCH calls SIGCPU. Have the z/MVT loader do this when it starts and you are off and running. The macros are a bit more intimidating than the actual executable instructions needed for the mode change. You can also ask questions about SATK on a groups.io list: [email protected] Harold Grovesteen
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Harold Grovesteen wrote:
[...] Have the z/MVT loader do this when it starts and you areHarold is correct: it is trivially easier to switch from ESA/390 mode to z/Architecture via a simple SIGP instruction, so the fact that, currently, Hercules currently only supports IPLing in ESA/390 mode shouldn't really be an issue. Just switch to z/Arch mode yourself if you're not already in z/Arch mode already. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Yes, I wrote you some time ago about acquiring a hobbyist license. Joe On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 7:57 PM John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote: Thank you. |
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David,
I agree that this would be easy. However, I am merely trying to replicate the operation we are getting on our z14. But I truly appreciate your comments. Thank you so much, John Rankin ?On 10/13/22, 10:27 PM, "Fish Fish" <[email protected] on behalf of david.b.trout@...> wrote: Harold Grovesteen wrote: [...] > Have the z/MVT loader do this when it starts and you are > off and running. Harold is correct: it is trivially easier to switch from ESA/390 mode to z/Architecture via a simple SIGP instruction, so the fact that, currently, Hercules currently only supports IPLing in ESA/390 mode shouldn't really be an issue. Just switch to z/Arch mode yourself if you're not already in z/Arch mode already. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
开云体育Tony, ? I know the name is confusing, but we didn’t choose it. ? MVT grew out of DOS/VS, and was one of the alternatives to VSE.? I don’t disagree that it is confusing with OS/MVT, but what can you do. ? John ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> ? On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 at 20:57, John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote:
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? I certainly remember MVT, but I suspect that we're talking about different OSs. The MVT I knew was a direct predecessor to SVS and then more distantly MVS, and was one of the branches of OS/360, alongside PCP and MFT. Of course it didn't do virtual storage. ? Naming a competitor to VSE "MVT" seems like a strange choice to me... ? Tony H. ? |
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John Rankin wrote:
David,Who? :) I agree that this would be easy. However, I am merely trying toUnderstood. And unfortunately, as I explained, that currently cannot be done with Hercules. Yet. Maybe someday someone will code CZAM support for us, but until then I'm afraid Hercules is not going to be too useful for you with such a hard requirement. Sorry! :( I should point out too for others reading this thread, that Hercules DOES NOT try to emulate any particular IBM mainframe. It only emulates the IBM mainframe architectures (370, 390, z). Hercules is its own unique model of mainframe. It's not a 370/358. It's not a 4381. It's not a 3090 or 9221 or z13 or z14, etc. It's a HERCULES model mainframe. It's its own unique model of "IBM" mainframe. But I truly appreciate your comments.You're very welcome, John. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Was MVT ever used on an earlier z machine? If so, the switch would
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have had to be in the code. In this case, "they" must have removed the mode switch. All you have to do is make your "z14" version a little smarter and you can use Hercules with it as Hercules is today or as it will be sometime in the future. STFL (without the E) will tell you whether you are in z mode. If you are (on the z14) then just bypass the switch from ESA/390 to z. I understand you may not be in control of that portion of code, but this sounds like a useful feature even if only for internal use. If this is just an environment for your use, does your IPL logic have a patch area? If so you might be able to alter your version to include the logic. There are multiple ways to "skin this cat" if you really need to make it work. Just a matter of how much your effort the capability is worth. Just some ideas you might want to think about. Harold Grovesteen On Thu, 2022-10-13 at 22:38 -0400, John Rankin wrote:
David, |
开云体育We used to run an operating system called MVT/VSE from Software Pursuits. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Rankin
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 9:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-DOSVS] z Architecture Mode ? Tony, ? I know the name is confusing, but we didn’t choose it. ? MVT grew out of DOS/VS, and was one of the alternatives to VSE? I don’t disagree that it is confusing with OS/MVT, but what can you do. ? John ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> ? On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 at 20:57, John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote: ?
? I certainly remember MVT, but I suspect that we're talking about different OSs. The MVT I knew was a direct predecessor to SVS and then more distantly MVS, and was one of the branches of OS/360, alongside PCP and MFT. Of course it didn't do virtual storage. ? Naming a competitor to VSE "MVT" seems like a strange choice to me... ? Tony H. ? |
开云体育Mike, ? That is exactly the one we now own and are working on. ? John ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Ward <antebios1153@...> ? We used to run an operating system called MVT/VSE from Software Pursuits. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Rankin
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 9:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-DOSVS] z Architecture Mode ? Tony, ? I know the name is confusing, but we didn’t choose it. ? MVT grew out of DOS/VS, and was one of the alternatives to VSE? I don’t disagree that it is confusing with OS/MVT, but what can you do. ? John ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> ? On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 at 20:57, John Rankin <John.Rankin@...> wrote: ?
? I certainly remember MVT, but I suspect that we're talking about different OSs. The MVT I knew was a direct predecessor to SVS and then more distantly MVS, and was one of the branches of OS/360, alongside PCP and MFT. Of course it didn't do virtual storage. ? Naming a competitor to VSE "MVT" seems like a strange choice to me... ? Tony H. ? |
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Harold,
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Thank you for your ideas. However, I have already corrected the IPL routines to compensate for the differences. It is now running just fine on Hercules. Thank you for the help, John ?On 10/14/22, 6:14 AM, "Harold Grovesteen" <[email protected] on behalf of h.grovsteen@...> wrote: Was MVT ever used on an earlier z machine? If so, the switch would have had to be in the code. In this case, "they" must have removed the mode switch. All you have to do is make your "z14" version a little smarter and you can use Hercules with it as Hercules is today or as it will be sometime in the future. STFL (without the E) will tell you whether you are in z mode. If you are (on the z14) then just bypass the switch from ESA/390 to z. I understand you may not be in control of that portion of code, but this sounds like a useful feature even if only for internal use. If this is just an environment for your use, does your IPL logic have a patch area? If so you might be able to alter your version to include the logic. There are multiple ways to "skin this cat" if you really need to make it work. Just a matter of how much your effort the capability is worth. Just some ideas you might want to think about. Harold Grovesteen On Thu, 2022-10-13 at 22:38 -0400, John Rankin wrote:
> David, > > I agree that this would be easy. However, I am merely trying to > replicate the operation we are getting on our z14. > > > But I truly appreciate your comments. > > Thank you so much, > John Rankin > > ?On 10/13/22, 10:27 PM, "Fish Fish" <[email protected] on behalf > of david.b.trout@...> wrote: > > Harold Grovesteen wrote: > > [...] > > Have the z/MVT loader do this when it starts and you are > > off and running. > > Harold is correct: it is trivially easier to switch from ESA/390 > mode to z/Architecture via a simple SIGP instruction, so the fact > that, currently, Hercules currently only supports IPLing in ESA/390 > mode shouldn't really be an issue. Just switch to z/Arch mode > yourself if you're not already in z/Arch mode already. > > -- > "Fish" (David B. Trout) > Software Development Laboratories > > mail: fish@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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Excellent news!! Glad it proved to be as "easy" as advertised.
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Harold Grovesteen On Fri, 2022-10-14 at 09:30 -0400, John Rankin wrote:
Harold, |