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Hi Mike,

I'm trying to print the DTFSD macro source using SSERV with dos rel 34 :

// JOB SSERV1
// EXEC SSERV
?DSPLY? E.DTFSD
/*

It's returning some kind of "binary" output.

What am I missing ?

thx

Mike

In my opinion yes VSE fully supports LCS, I remember that OSA/SF software was available also for VSE.
--
Piotr

--

Jay
What kind of emulated connection are you using? Is this patched Hercules version to send/receive SNA packages? Is it OSA LCS or QDIO? Or maybe CTC?

Piotr

Jay,

That's my mistake! When you asked for a way to edit them online my mind instantly assumed you were looking for a way to do it with configuration dialogs.

Reading it again it seems that DITTO is definitely what you were looking for. Glad that got sorted out for you.

--

You can use DITTO. Logon to SYSA, escape to CICS and start DITTO, then navigate with the menus.

HTH,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

Hi Jay,

Yes there is a way to do it online! In the interactive interface go to path 2 for Resource Definition. There you will find path 5 and 6, maintain VTAM Application Names and VTAM Startup Options.

I have no experience with SNA networking, but this is where you should find the definitions you seek. If you also want to set up telnet, fast path 246 lets you define your VTAM logon table and terminal logmodes.

If there's anything else I can do or if you get stuck, I'll try my best to help.

Hi All,

There are a couple of challenges to making a How-To.? Primary is that BOS started out as three different packages, announced in December, 1964: BOS 8K Disk, BOS 16K Disk, and BOS 16K Tape.? In May, 1966, IBM renamed them as follows:

BOS 8K disk --> BOS
BOS 16K Disk --> DOS
BOS 16K Tape --> TOS

DOS and TOS have more in common with each other than BOS 16K Tape has with TOS.? And BOS 8K disk (later called BOS) has very little in common with TOS, DOS, or the two 16K versions.? And it lasted for a few years based on the release dates of the manuals. The BOS 16K versions were different from their successor systems, although JCL and librarian control cards are recognizable to DOS users.? ?

The BOS 16K Tape distribution on Bitsavers is a rare thing indeed.? It was only a product from it's release sometime in 1965 until May 1966.? After that it was the (different) TOS.? (Thanks to René for converting the SIMH .TAP files to .AWS.)? The third tape is a private source statement library containing the COBOL compiler source.? Assign SYSSLB to the drive the tape is mounted and then you can use DSERV and SSERV to list the directory and print or punch contents.?

Of the manuals available on Bitsavers in the BOS_BPS directory, only three apply to BOS 16K Tape:?

C24-3414-1_BOSasm_Dec65? (Applies to both 16K versions, but no sample JCL to assemble a program).
C24-3431-0_BOSsysCtl_1965 (LNKEDT control cards but no sample JCL)
Z24-5022-0_BOS_System_Control_16K_Tape_PLM_1966?(identifies workfiles needed for LNKEDT, but no sample JCL)

No System Generation manual.? ?Other manuals in BOS_BPS are for BOS 8K disk or its successor BOS.? The trick with the manuals is to avoid the ones that do not apply to 16K tape.? That's the second challenge.??

The DOS/360 How-To could make extensive use of existing sources.? A BOS 16K Tape How-To will have to document much of the same information without having manuals as source documents.? Some of?Bill Carlborg's sample programs might be adapted to BOS 16K Tape to serve as a setup verification (which would also provide sample JCL).??

From review of the source library, the 16K Tape system generation macros are similar to TOS but not the same.? And it is not possible to generate a BOS 16K Disk system from a BOS 16K Tape system. The $$B transients for disk processing are not in the tape distribution, the SUPVR rejects a SYSTEM= specification other than disk, and there is no utility to convert a tape SYSRES to a disk SYSRES.??(This is true also for the DOS and TOS systems we have.)

BOS 16K Tape does run nicely on Hercules.? But: error messages are cryptic.? Messing around, I got the message FILE PROTECT RING NEEDED.? No unit number, no SYSnnn, nothing.? It turns out BOS 16K Tape needed the file protect ring?and the rest of the tape reel too.??DEVINIT took care of the issue, but I don't want to talk about what I had to do to figure that out.? :-)? ?Third challenge: no Messages manual.??

Steve O.??

René Ferland wrote:? ?(/g/H390-DOSVS/message/141)

Have you run your DOS/360 under VM/370? It should not be very hard. But the one problem I see is handshaking (automatic close of spool print/punch files), probably not implemented on DOS/360. The OS has to be patched for that. George Shedlock did it for DOS/VS.

Hi René,

I looked at what I thought was George's DOS/VS distribution (now at:?).? It appears that it depends on HercPrt () to issue Hercules commands to break printouts into separate files.? Apparently HercPrt has magic in it to look for job separator pages from whichever spooler generated the printout and create appropriately named files on the system hosting Hercules.??

If so, that approach would work with the DOS/360 installation with the following caveats:

1. HercPrt would need to be trained to recognize POWER II separator pages, which I suspect are not very different from POWER/VS(E) separator pages.? I haven't used HercPrt, so I don't know how difficult this would be, but I suspect not very difficult at all.??

2. The file POWER02.JCL, which creates the POWER II executable, would need to be changed to generate separator pages.? "JOBSEP=NO" becomes "JOBSEP=1".? POWER II lacks a JSEP= option on the * $$LST or * $$PUN card, so it has to be done during POWER II generation and cannot be turned off.??

3.? If running under VM, there is no coordination between POWER II and the VM spooler.? The unit record devices to be used by POWER II should be assigned by DEDICATE in the virtual machine's entry in USER DIRECT.? Addresses do not need to match;? "DEDICATE 00E 05E" would be fine.??

Another approach would be to develop a variant of HERCCMD (posted in this group at HERCCMD.ZIP) to eliminate that coding which is specific to a virtual storage DOS.? The program would need to be changed but the $$B transient might be OK as is.? This approach might be useful for other things.? I also don't know what happens to DIAG 8 when issued under VM under Hercules.??

Modifying POWER II to issue appropriate CP or Hercules commands is possible in principle; source for POWER II is included on the available distribution.? However, I took a look at this and found the code impenetrable.? Maybe another look is in order.??

-Steve

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 10:52 AM, dosvsoperator wrote:

It's not very chatty.

You mean me? or BOS/360? or this discussion group? or maybe all of these? :-)

Cheers,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

I've been looking for Model 20 software, it should not be hard to add a
IBM360/20 model to my IBM360 simulator. I am also looking for model 20
microcode listings or CLD's.

There was also a similar system for the regular 360 machines that ran
totally off cards called BPS (Basic Programming System), these cards
would be useful to find.

Rich

--
==========================================================================
Richard Cornwell
rich@...

LinkedIn:
==========================================================================

My data processing career started in 1962 when I went to a technical school
to learn how to wire the control panels and to operate IBM Punched Card
Tabulating Equipment.

My introduction to the IBM 360 series was the Model 20 with the
Multi-Function Card Machine (MFCM often referred to as the MF*** Card
Mangler) and printer in 1964.
See Wikipedia:
And Bitsavers:

-0098-0_basicApplications_360-20.pdf

This machine used the Card Programming System (CPS) , a set of control
programs for a Model 20 computer system with only card input/output devices.
The machine was IPL'd with a big deck of punched IBM cards.
This was followed by another big deck of cards to run the RPG compiler.
Then you would load in your RPG program source cards to produce an object
deck on the card punch.

I'm a little fuzzy on the exact sequence but I think you had to IPL again
and then load your object deck and then your data cards and finally print
your report.

The Model 20 was kind of a weird member of the 360 family. I seriously
doubt that any of its various operating systems would run in Hercules
because the 20 had some extra machine ops that didn't exist in the rest of
the 360 family.

I only used the Model 20 at an engineering firm one night (sometimes all
night) a week for the purpose of learning RPG which I would later use on our
own Model 30 .

RPG programs (Report Program Generator) were designed for people like me
that had experience running tab equipment. The steps in writing an RPG
program mimicked the operation of the 402, 403 and 407 accounting machines:
Input - Calculate - Output. RPG was structured in such a way that you wrote
specifications for each step - something very foreign to a COBOL programmer.
People who had no experience with the tab machines had a very difficult time
learning RPG, in fact they literally hated it. I loved it and learned lots
of tricks to make it do what I wanted.

Before the Model 30 was installed I had written RPG programs to do all of
the various processes that I had developed on the tab machines.
This page; in my
website lists all of the tab equipment that we had. And there are links to
photos of the equipment.

/Fran Hensler at Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania USA for 52 years

mailto:RockFox@...
"Yes, Virginia, there is a Slippery Rock"

Hi René

Solved!
I was doing two things wrong
1) Pressing <ENTER> on teraterm so input for IPL comands was set to master console. If you do not press <ENTER>, input is set to card reader on devinit 00c
2) I was typing on hercules ===> prompt "devinit 00c .\jobs\ipl.jcl eof" instead of "devinit 00c ./jobs/ipl.jcl eof". The backslash was confusing hercules

Now it is IPLing
Thanks
Roberto