Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
As a travel company, we ran a reservations system by day ( CICS c 100 x 3270 terminals ).?
Overnight batch accounting, reports, backups overnight and development and testing streams.
CICS programs were COBOL, the biggest program was 8k compiled!?
operators fed in JCL, mounted and de mounted disks and tapes, and decollated tons of reports from the 1403 printer (extremely noisy).
as a systems programmer I spent all weekend doing updates and sysgens with the whole machine to myself. Bliss.
steve
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Hi Steve!
This is so cool! Do you have any more stories about working on 370? What type of programs usually was batched through the day? Business stuff? Scientific?
I know that ENIAC was used to compute trajectories for artillery. UNIVAC helped with census and also tried to forecast weather and election results.
After that a lot of Business companies adopted computers for calculating employee wages and stock lists.
This is ok, but i want to know how much time would it take to compute one of this tasks, how often they used to appear? Why night shifts existed?
Best wishes,
Andre
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On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 10:15 PM, Steve Shepherd wrote:
As an operator I learnt assembler on a 370/138 on dos/vs after reading Sharon K Tuggle¡¯s Assembler Language Programming book. On night shifts I would squeeze in a few programs in BG.?
To drive it all home I wrote a version of Star Trek after playing a basic version on a Rank Xerox Sigma 9 on a previous contract.
Anyway, the program output was on the system console and caused no end of problems the next day when the (real) programmers couldn¡¯t find their error messages because of a full console log.
the boss came to me the next day and I thought I was for the chop, but instead they offered me the vacant Systems Programmer job, which of course I readily accepted!
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
As an operator I learnt assembler on a 370/138 on dos/vs after reading Sharon K Tuggle¡¯s Assembler Language Programming book. On night shifts I would squeeze in a few programs in BG.?
To drive it all home I wrote a version of Star Trek after playing a basic version on a Rank Xerox Sigma 9 on a previous contract.
Anyway, the program output was on the system console and caused no end of problems the next day when the (real) programmers couldn¡¯t find their error messages because of a full console log.
the boss came to me the next day and I thought I was for the chop, but instead they offered me the vacant Systems Programmer job, which of course I readily accepted!
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
The Principles of Operation manual is an absolute must for assembly language programming. ?You simply can not program in assembler without it.
At the moment you are struggling with how to get the assembler to work and use macros from someone else to get the assembler to create a program. As you start doing more of your own assembler coding the Principles of Operation manual will become more and more valuable.
Because you are working within a DOS partition (where you assemble a program and where it runs), you will be most interested in the sections devoted to General Instructions. ?Don't know what those are? ?That is your reading assignment. ?LOL.
And if you get errors when you try to assemble your program with the various macros, that is not an problem with the assembler or the operating system you are using. ?That means you simply have an issue with the macros. ?The assembler and OS are working as they are supposed to. That is success! ?Not as much as you hope for, but foundational success.
The bitsavers site that Mike shared with you has an entire folder dedicated to DOS/VS. ?And yes there is a LOT of documentation. ?As you explore DOS/VS you will start to see where each one fits.
Assembler is marvelous. ?That is of course just me speaking.
Have fun, Harold Grovesteen
On Sat, 2023-06-03 at 10:18 -0400, Mike Stramba wrote: Andre,
Here are a couple?of sites you may be interested in
Tommy Sprinkle's site is not directly related to dos/vs, but it is very educational in showing how the basics of an IBM OS can be constructed.
This is a very nicely constructed site, re: how to install / build dos360. It includes example test programs to print / read-write from dasd, in Assembler, Fortran, Cobol and RPG.
Another interesting site / program, is Harold?Grovesteen's SATK? "bare metal" toolkit:
>But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
I wouldn't say the examples are useless.? It's only the macros that might need editing.
Dave Wade, wrote in your other thread in Herc390, that you can cut/paste the "body" of those macros into your example code.
If you haven't already downloaded it,? I highly recommend that you download the Principles of Operation from Bitsavers.org :?
Read up on the I/O instructions, and also see Tommy Sprinkle's site for more explanation on how the I/O system works.
You can even run small programs directly in Hercules, by using the 'r' (display or alter real storage), 'restart', step, psw hercules commands.
Mike
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Dear Mike,
I have to say, i am a big fan of moshix and Rene Ferland.
So i am pretty familiar with 370VM 6pack and DOS/VS installation under it.
But i appreciate your advice.
Sincerely,
Andre
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On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 06:07 PM, Mike Stramba wrote:
I would also suggest that you download and run the VMr6 package from
?
The VM forum is here :
?
Vm, is the easiest IBM os to get up and running and use.
?
It has an interactive "user-console"? (virtual machine),? and the commands to list, edit, copy files, are
very similar to msdos?/ unix.
?
The "community" edition link I posted, also has a full screen editor, and other "niceties" added on (online help for one), that the original vmR6 didn't have.
?
To assemble and run a "Hello World" program you would just use the A (assemble command) on your
?
HELLO ASSEMBLE? file.
?
HELLO? ? CSECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? LR ?12,15 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? USING HELLO,12 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? WRTERM 'HELLO FROM ASM',14 ?
? ?? ? BR 14 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? END? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
**** You need to add a? line to your PROFILE EXEC : to access the macro library that contains the WRTERM
macro.
GLOBAL MACLIB CMSLIB
?
Then assuming no assembly errors,? you would issue :??
LOAD HELLO
STA
Execution begins...
HELLO FROM ASM? ? ?
?
It is even possible to setup?a dosvs "virtual machine" to run dosvs? "inside"? vm.
?
Actually, the "VM Directory" entry for the dosvs?virtual machine is already setup,
you just need to download the dos dasd's?
?
?
?
If you don't already have a 3270 emulator, I would highly recommend Tom Brennan's Vista :
?
It's a great program, and priced at a ridiculously low price of $30 usd.
You can download a 30 day trial.
?
Mike
Andre,
?
Here are a couple?of sites you may be interested in
?
?
Tommy Sprinkle's site is not directly related to dos/vs, but it is very educational in showing how the basics
of an IBM OS can be constructed.
?
?
This is a very nicely constructed site, re: how to install / build dos360.
It includes example test programs to print / read-write from dasd, in Assembler, Fortran, Cobol and RPG.
?
Another interesting site / program, is Harold?Grovesteen's SATK? "bare metal" toolkit:
?
>But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
?
I wouldn't say the examples are useless.? It's only the macros that might need editing.
?
Dave Wade, wrote in your other thread in Herc390, that you can cut/paste the "body" of those macros
into your example code.
?
If you haven't already downloaded it,? I highly recommend that you download the Principles of Operation
from Bitsavers.org :?
?
Read up on the I/O instructions, and also see Tommy Sprinkle's site for more explanation on how the I/O
system works.
?
You can even run small programs directly in Hercules, by using the 'r' (display or alter real storage), 'restart',
step, psw hercules commands.
?
Mike
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
?
?
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
I would also suggest that you download and run the VMr6 package from
The VM forum is here :
Vm, is the easiest IBM os to get up and running and use.
It has an interactive "user-console"? (virtual machine),? and the commands to list, edit, copy files, are very similar to msdos?/ unix.
The "community" edition link I posted, also has a full screen editor, and other "niceties" added on (online help for one), that the original vmR6 didn't have.
To assemble and run a "Hello World" program you would just use the A (assemble command) on your
HELLO ASSEMBLE? file.
HELLO? ? CSECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? LR ?12,15 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? USING HELLO,12 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? WRTERM 'HELLO FROM ASM',14 ?
? ?? ? BR 14 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? END? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
**** You need to add a? line to your PROFILE EXEC : to access the macro library that contains the WRTERM macro. GLOBAL MACLIB CMSLIB
Then assuming no assembly errors,? you would issue :?? LOAD HELLO STA Execution begins...
HELLO FROM ASM? ? ?
It is even possible to setup?a dosvs "virtual machine" to run dosvs? "inside"? vm.
Actually, the "VM Directory" entry for the dosvs?virtual machine is already setup, you just need to download the dos dasd's?
?
If you don't already have a 3270 emulator, I would highly recommend Tom Brennan's Vista :
It's a great program, and priced at a ridiculously low price of $30 usd. You can download a 30 day trial.
Mike
Andre,
Here are a couple?of sites you may be interested in
Tommy Sprinkle's site is not directly related to dos/vs, but it is very educational in showing how the basics of an IBM OS can be constructed.
This is a very nicely constructed site, re: how to install / build dos360. It includes example test programs to print / read-write from dasd, in Assembler, Fortran, Cobol and RPG.
Another interesting site / program, is Harold?Grovesteen's SATK? "bare metal" toolkit:
>But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
I wouldn't say the examples are useless.? It's only the macros that might need editing.
Dave Wade, wrote in your other thread in Herc390, that you can cut/paste the "body" of those macros into your example code.
If you haven't already downloaded it,? I highly recommend that you download the Principles of Operation from Bitsavers.org :?
Read up on the I/O instructions, and also see Tommy Sprinkle's site for more explanation on how the I/O system works.
You can even run small programs directly in Hercules, by using the 'r' (display or alter real storage), 'restart', step, psw hercules commands.
Mike
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Tommy Sprinkle's site is all in assembler code
As for the "rc" scripts,? nothing is stopping you from opening them in your favorite editor to look /change whatever.
You will see that most of the rc files, contain "tedious" commands to attach devices,? change the printer output file. etc.. i.e.? "government admin paper work".
You can just issue the commands manually if you really want to.
e.g. devinit 280 tape/demoutil.aws
Hello Mike!
Thank you for replying. Tommy Sprinkles site looks very interesting, but maybe i should end up learning assembly language first.
Also, you know what? I already finished DOS360 sysgen by following instructions from this other site you mentioned
It was incredibly fun experience. Still, the tutorial uses already made rc script files, which is not revealing as much as i want to know.
Best wishes,
Andre
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 05:18 PM, Mike Stramba wrote:
Andre,
?
Here are a couple?of sites you may be interested in
?
?
Tommy Sprinkle's site is not directly related to dos/vs, but it is very educational in showing how the basics
of an IBM OS can be constructed.
?
?
This is a very nicely constructed site, re: how to install / build dos360.
It includes example test programs to print / read-write from dasd, in Assembler, Fortran, Cobol and RPG.
?
Another interesting site / program, is Harold?Grovesteen's SATK? "bare metal" toolkit:
?
>But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
?
I wouldn't say the examples are useless.? It's only the macros that might need editing.
?
Dave Wade, wrote in your other thread in Herc390, that you can cut/paste the "body" of those macros
into your example code.
?
If you haven't already downloaded it,? I highly recommend that you download the Principles of Operation
from Bitsavers.org :?
?
Read up on the I/O instructions, and also see Tommy Sprinkle's site for more explanation on how the I/O
system works.
?
You can even run small programs directly in Hercules, by using the 'r' (display or alter real storage), 'restart',
step, psw hercules commands.
?
Mike
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
?
?
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Hello Mike!
Thank you for replying. Tommy Sprinkles site looks very interesting, but maybe i should end up learning assembly language first.
Also, you know what? I already finished DOS360 sysgen by following instructions from this other site you mentioned
It was incredibly fun experience. Still, the tutorial uses already made rc script files, which is not revealing as much as i want to know.
Best wishes,
Andre
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 05:18 PM, Mike Stramba wrote:
Andre,
?
Here are a couple?of sites you may be interested in
?
?
Tommy Sprinkle's site is not directly related to dos/vs, but it is very educational in showing how the basics
of an IBM OS can be constructed.
?
?
This is a very nicely constructed site, re: how to install / build dos360.
It includes example test programs to print / read-write from dasd, in Assembler, Fortran, Cobol and RPG.
?
Another interesting site / program, is Harold?Grovesteen's SATK? "bare metal" toolkit:
?
>But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
?
I wouldn't say the examples are useless.? It's only the macros that might need editing.
?
Dave Wade, wrote in your other thread in Herc390, that you can cut/paste the "body" of those macros
into your example code.
?
If you haven't already downloaded it,? I highly recommend that you download the Principles of Operation
from Bitsavers.org :?
?
Read up on the I/O instructions, and also see Tommy Sprinkle's site for more explanation on how the I/O
system works.
?
You can even run small programs directly in Hercules, by using the 'r' (display or alter real storage), 'restart',
step, psw hercules commands.
?
Mike
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
?
?
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Andre,
Here are a couple?of sites you may be interested in
Tommy Sprinkle's site is not directly related to dos/vs, but it is very educational in showing how the basics of an IBM OS can be constructed.
This is a very nicely constructed site, re: how to install / build dos360. It includes example test programs to print / read-write from dasd, in Assembler, Fortran, Cobol and RPG.
Another interesting site / program, is Harold?Grovesteen's SATK? "bare metal" toolkit:
>But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
I wouldn't say the examples are useless.? It's only the macros that might need editing.
Dave Wade, wrote in your other thread in Herc390, that you can cut/paste the "body" of those macros into your example code.
If you haven't already downloaded it,? I highly recommend that you download the Principles of Operation from Bitsavers.org :?
Read up on the I/O instructions, and also see Tommy Sprinkle's site for more explanation on how the I/O system works.
You can even run small programs directly in Hercules, by using the 'r' (display or alter real storage), 'restart', step, psw hercules commands.
Mike
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Joe,
Wow! This is a good start. I am excited! Now, i can finish Bill's book! That is very helpful, thank you.
I'll be back! :)
Best wishes,
Andre
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 05:02 PM, Joe Monk wrote:
Andre -
?
Before you try to leap to the mainframe, I would suggest that you first follow this:?
?
This uses the newer z390 package by Don Higgins.
?
Once you are comfortable with those examples and?have them working on your machine, then we can help you leap to the mainframe and DOS/VS.
?
Joe
?
?
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
?
?
|
Re: Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Andre -
Before you try to leap to the mainframe, I would suggest that you first follow this:?
This uses the newer z390 package by Don Higgins.
Once you are comfortable with those examples and?have them working on your machine, then we can help you leap to the mainframe and DOS/VS.
Joe
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
|
Going back to the future and writing programs for mainframes in the process
Hello Everyone,
My name is Andre, and i am new ibmuser. All my life i thought that Altair 8800 was the "first" computer, but then i have learned about mainframes. :)
My interest grew stronger and stronger, and then i found moshix channel at YouTube. That was the beginning of my journey.
Well, while other people try to run most recent operating systems, i was really interested in ancient ones.Tried UNIXv7, Multics and even CTSS.
But for me they are not so complicated as IBM OS/360. It is like OS from other dimension, from planet Nibiru.
Some companies do not release any good documentation, but IBM is not one of them, they release TOO MUCH, and their documentation is really hard to read or understand.
Maybe it was done intentionally, so people would be forced to buy support, i don't know.
So why DOS/VS? For me it is because this OS is closest to DOS360, and run perfectly on Hercules.
What is my goal? To write my own assembler program(not just hello world, but something more advanced) and run it successfully on DOS/VS. Plus points if it also would run on DOS/360.
What is my problem? Every time i find a good book about assembler, it seems that i found a book for wrong type of assembler. Nothing works. I am truly fascinated by programmers of that period.
Recently i started to read magnificent book by Bill Qualls "Mainframe Assembler Programming". He gives a lot of code examples and recommends to run them on PC/370 by Don Higgins.
https://www.billqualls.com/assembler/
But it turns out, that those examples are useless, because they use macros of PC/370 program and those macros not present in IBM OS's. How to import them, i don't know.
Also, i have big problem with JCL. It seems that for every type of OS there is different syntax for JCL. And lots of sites cover JCL for latest z/OS, not for DOS/VS.
I am looking for help here, only because i feel that i am stuck.
Maybe there is someone, who also read Bill Qualls book and was able to run his examples on Hercules.
Or maybe someone would recommend other good assembly book, with examples that would work on DOS/VS.
Or maybe someone would share with me universal JCL for DOS/VS that should run almost any intermediate assembly program.
Any help are welcomed.
Best wishes,
Andre
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
Hello List.
? Thanks To All, for your advices, tips..
? We have fixed this issue, the problem was zVSE Restore Job using vtape.? We have wrong JCL sentences.
? Winner jos is RESTVT-
? Bad job? is RESTFIL7
? Specifically sentence pointing to VTAPE START was wrong and not necessary.
? Best Regards
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
? Jay.
? I become back? with all info regarding this issue.
? Meanwhile we tried several scenarios:
? 1) one little aws
? 2) one big aws
? 3) TAPESRVR with high priority and 400 MB VSE memory
? 4) SET Windows server from 4 cpu cpre to 8? (has 16 GB RAM)
?? Regards
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
You should be using the one that was shipped?in IJSYSRS.SYSLIB for your z/VSE version.
TAPESRVR.Z
Save it as?TAPESRVR.ZIP on your server then unzip.
John
Thks for your time John.
? We use Vtape server 5.1 PM55958. Running on Windows Server 2019.
? I am collecting all information to send it.
? Regards.
-- Sincerely,
John Imholte
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
?Hi Jay,,
? We are collecting all information.
? I forget some vse command to punch member from Ollx Vollie and from? VSE Queues,? I am reviewing vse manuals? , in order to FTP them in .TXT format.
? Thk a lot
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
Thks for your time John.
? We use Vtape server 5.1 PM55958. Running on Windows Server 2019.
? I am collecting all information to send it.
? Regards.
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
Hello!
Fine. I did not know that. But we did (and still do) need more
information to continue. We can leave the rest alone.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 1:47?AM Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote:
Gregg Levine wrote:
[...]
The deliberately rude gentleman was I believe the author
of VTAPE, so, he has a right to be that rude. If you're referring to me, then you are dead wrong, Gregg. I had (and have) absolutely nothing to do with VTAPE. As far as I know, z/VSE VTAPE (Virtual Tape) support is an IBM invention, first introduced with z/VSE 4.1 I believe, which was released sometime around 2007:
*
I am not the author of Hercules's virtual tape support either (.AWS, .HET, etc), nor am I the author of the .AWS file format. Once again, I believe IBM invented the .AWS virtual tape file format.
The only thing related to virtual tape that I am the author of is my AWSBrowse product:
*
Manuel first contacted me directly, expecting me to help him because he bought some of my software several years ago. I tend to get that a lot, forcing me to politely inform them that I provide support for MY products, but not for Hercules, directing them to the main Hercules support forum and mentioning that we also have additional "more focused" support forums as well (and provide them a link to our Technical Support web page, ).
But USUALLY when that happens, the person's original request for help includes a BIT more information than what Manuel provided! The utter dearth of information regarding his environment(*) is what set me off.
For the record, I do apologize for my tone, but after putting up with this shit for so many years, it sometimes gets to me and I blow up.
I'm human. So sue me.
----------------------
(*) In his original email to me, he didn't mention the version of z/VSE he was using. He just said z/VSE, with no mention of which version. I can see he at least identified in his post to the group what version of z/VSE he was running, but that's hardly enough.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
Helpful hint for Manuel:
*
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Re: VTAPE Data handler Initialization Failed
Manual, I see that you have z/VSE 4.3. What version of the VTAPE server are you running?
John Imholte
? Morning.
? Sorry All, I recognizes my thread was very very poor.
? Before sent it, I reviewed all posts? and don't find nothing similar my issue (restore job using VTAPE don't work) , then I sent this, but,, , (w/o words).
? Therefore thks Srs.
-- Sincerely,
John Imholte
|
