Shedlock DOS/VS: Compilers?
So far, I've discovered the FFORTRAN and PL/I Compilers on the Shedlock system. Haven't tried COBOL yet.
I'll probably end up just making a new supervisor with everything set up for 2314 work files.
In Professor Ferland's videos, I thought I heard that RPG could be installed, as well as higher level compilers for the other languages. Can anyone point this novice in the correct direction for getting those installed?
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Re: DOS/VS: where to start?
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 04:06 PM, Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:
Yes they are (slightly) different. I suggest you work with the original 5-pack
of George Shedlock, available here: , just to make it
easier to help you eventually.
I watched the Moshix M91 and M92 videos, understand what they are doing, and everything is working so far (I have gotten PL/I and FFORTRAN programs successfully compiled). So thank you very much!!!
I'll have some more questions I will start new topics for, but this is pretty cool. Alien (I have an MVT/MVS background), but cool.
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Re: DOS/VS: where to start?
?
>> It's telling me (after the set command) It can't? go on.. missing PUB
?
That's because you are trying to use the DOS/VS virtual machine logon console as a system console. DOS/VS expects its system console to be on 01F while the logon console is on 009. What you need to do is the following:
?
1. Logon normally on DOSVS with a 3270 connection.
?
2. Purge all spool files from the virtual card reader:
?
? ?purge rdr all
?
3. Run the DOSIPL EXEC:
?
? ?dosipl
?
4. When you get the message IPL 360 on the logon console and
? ?the word RUNNING at the right bottom, minimize that window
? ?and don't touch it for the moment.?
?
5. Start a new 3270 connection, press Enter to erase the VM/370
? ? logo, dial the DOSVS virtual machine on 01F
?
? ?dial dosvs 01f
?
? ?and press Enter twice.
?
You should see message 0I04I at the top of the screen and be able to continue with the IPL process.
?
Cheers,
?
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
?
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Re: DOS/VS: where to start?
Hello Rene,
?
I'm trying to run the DOSVE under VM/370CE..
It's telling me (after the set command) It can't? go on.. missing PUB
?
dosipl
CP SPOOL PUNCH *
PUNCH NOTHING JCL A ( NOH
PUN FILE 1291 TO DOSVS COPY 01 NOHOLD
CP SPOOL PUNCH OFF
IPL 360
+++ R(-0003) +++
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 11:02:32
ipl 360
0I04I IPLDEV=X'360',VOLSER=DOSR34,CPUID=FF0980524381
0I03A SPECIFY SUPERVISOR NAME
$$a$sup1
0I48I REAL STORAGE GT RSIZE. REMAINDER IS NOT USED
0I30I DATE=12/28/23,CLOCK=06/02/46,ZONE=WEST/05/00
0I10A GIVE IPL CONTROL COMMANDS
set
0I17A NO PUB GIVEN FOR SYSLOG
I don't have a listing of the superviser generation and don't know what I'm doing wrong (it was 1990 the last time I generated VSE and VM... so rusty allright)
?
Hope you can shine some light on it :-)
?
Regards,
?
Marcel
Op 26-12-2023 22:06 CET schreef Ren¨¦ Ferland <ferland.rene@...>:
?
?
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 12:51 PM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:
Are they the same? If not, which is preferable for my load-and-go scenarios? (and where do I find the latter?).
?
Hello Doug,
?
Yes they are (slightly) different. I suggest you work with the original 5-pack of George Shedlock, available here: http://www.vm370.org/dos, just to make it easier to help you eventually.
?
Are you running DOS/VS as a guest under VM/370 CE?
?
Cheers,
?
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
?
?
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Re: DOS/VS: where to start?
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 04:06 PM, Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:
Are you running DOS/VS as a guest under VM/370 CE?
I am NOT running under VM/370; I am (just now) using the configuration from Beaulieu, but with the Shedlock DASD. I am working through the M91 video right now, POWER/VS just came up. Let me get through the (your) videos, and we'll see where I land.
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Re: DOS/VS: where to start?
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 12:51 PM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:
Are they the same? If not, which is preferable for my load-and-go scenarios? (and where do I find the latter?).
?
Hello Doug,
?
Yes they are (slightly) different. I suggest you work with the original 5-pack of George Shedlock, available here: http://www.vm370.org/dos, just to make it easier to help you eventually.
?
Are you running DOS/VS as a guest under VM/370 CE?
?
Cheers,
?
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
?
?
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Re: Is there a Hello World COBOL example for DOS/VS?
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 12:51 PM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:
Is the video that you describe (adding 2314, fixing labels) in the M103, M104, M105 series of videos?
No, M92 actually, and you can find the jobs here:?. Cheers, Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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I'm wanting to get a DOS360 or DOS/VS (preferably) running. I'm looking for something that I can just do compile and run for PL/I, Cobol, and (hopefully) FORTRAN.
I grabbed the dosvs5pack-v1r0m1*.zip files from the yahoo groups archives, and got it running (had to adjust the configuration for case-sensitivity, I host on Linux). Apparently it was put together by Michel Beaulieu.
I see references to a 5-pack by Shedlock.
Are they the same? If not, which is preferable for my load-and-go scenarios? (and where do I find the latter?).
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Re: Is there a Hello World COBOL example for DOS/VS?
Is the video that you describe (adding 2314, fixing labels) in the M103, M104, M105 series of videos?
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To reply to myself...
It is good to release job from reader when is submitted via reader with disp L :D . 12 AR R RDR,VTAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 13 F1 1R88I ?OK ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 14 F1 1Q47I ? F3 VTAM 00301 FROM 000 ? ? ? ? 15 F2 // JOB VTAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 16 ? ?DATE 12/16/23,CLOCK 03/58/25 ? ? ? ? ? 17 F2 5B10I ?ISTNSC00 STARTED ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 18 F2 5A93I ?APPLBUDD ACTIVE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 19 F2 5A93I ?LCLMAJ00 ACTIVE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 20 F2 5A20I ?VTAM INITIALIZATION COMPLETE ?
On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 8:15?AM Crni Mrki, DK4BN via <crnimrki= [email protected]> wrote: HI.
I am trying to configure VTAM according to the instructions from github:
I generated a new supervisor together with power, made a configuration, but when I try to start VTAM via the VTAM.JCL job, all I get on the console is:
? 12 F1 1Q34I RDR WAITING FOR WORK ON 00C
I'm not sure if the VTAM product is installed at all.
If I try job restopt4.dosvs from 5pack installation I get:
11 BG * RESTOREP1 RESTORE OPTIONAL TO DOSVS.OPTIONAL.VTAM
12 BG 1T20I SYS009 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO X'364'
13 F1 1Q34I LST WAITING FOR WORK ON 00E
14 BG 0P10I C EQUIP CHK SYS006=280
15 CCSW=3F104021E80E002000 CCB=402158
16 SNS=1040000000C003600000000000800100010000FFFF
17 BG 0P73I JOB RESTOPT4 CANCELED DUE TO I/O ERROR
18 BG EOJ RESTOPT4
Has anyone had success with that installation?
Can someone help me?
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HI. I am trying to configure VTAM according to the instructions from github: I generated a new supervisor together with power, made a configuration, but when I try to start VTAM via the VTAM.JCL job, all I get on the console is:
? 12 F1 1Q34I RDR WAITING FOR WORK ON 00C
I'm not sure if the VTAM product is installed at all. If I try job restopt4.dosvs from 5pack installation I get:
11 BG * RESTOREP1 RESTORE OPTIONAL TO DOSVS.OPTIONAL.VTAM
12 BG 1T20I SYS009 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO X'364'
13 F1 1Q34I LST WAITING FOR WORK ON 00E
14 BG 0P10I C EQUIP CHK SYS006=280
15 CCSW=3F104021E80E002000 CCB=402158
16 SNS=1040000000C003600000000000800100010000FFFF
17 BG 0P73I JOB RESTOPT4 CANCELED DUE TO I/O ERROR
18 BG EOJ RESTOPT4
Has anyone had success with that installation? Can someone help me?
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Gentlemen, here the web page that I created to access via browser any Mainframe connected. Simply filling IP address and TN3270 port. These are pictures of my Mainframe being accessed thru Internet. I can make the page available for tests, accessing my Mainframe. Use the inbox to request a test.
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Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
I¡¯m sorry Andre but I can¡¯t answer any of your questions.? All I know is that the first time our class went to the newspaper to run our programs the instructor just mentioned why the newspaper had a computer and he said it was for typesetting.? Never another word about it. /Fran ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Andre Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 1:41 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [H390-DOSVS] Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules. ? Hello Fran!
This is a very interesting story. You mentioned that the newspaper used IBM1620 for typesetting. Can you guess which program they were using?
I'm aware that CTSS had TYPSET and RUNOFF, which were released in 1964, but they might have been too primitive for a newspaper.
Do you happen to know if IBM had a professional typesetting application available during that time?
Best wishes,
Andre
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Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
When we installed our first 360/30 in 1968 I remember vividly seeing something about a 1401 emulator option but we did not install it. ? /Fran Hensler ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Wade Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 5:02 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [H390-DOSVS] Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules. ? Andre, Whilst Wikipedea says there was a 1401 emulator for DOS I have never seen a copy. I know the Turnkey MVS people have run the OS 1401 emulator under MVS. There was discussion here:- ? /g/turnkey-mvs/message/846 ? but you will have to join the turnkey-mvs group to read it. Whilst I am not an expert moving code from OS to DOS isn¡¯t trivial. Around 20 years ago there was some discussion on 1401 emulation on the IBM-Main bitserv list which is in google groups here:- ?
? from what reading I have done the 1401 Fortran was somewhat limited. ? I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360 Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV. Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running Fortran H you would get much better performance. So if you really want to torture yourself with Fortran II I think you for quickness you are down to the 1401 version either standalone or on Turnkey MVS. If you want to run bigger programs, probably the 1620 on SIMH would be the best option. I will try and have a look at this later, but I always find producing working FORTRAN II code a challenge. ? Dave p.s. there was also a 1620 emulator. There is info here:- ?
? ? ? ? ? ? Hello Dave,
I see... But i heard that there was 1401 emulator for DOS360. Is it possible to somehow run FORTRAN II compiler inside 1401 emulator inside DOS360 inside Hercules?
Has anyone tried installing the 1401 emulator on DOS360 or DOS/VS?
By the way, big thanks for this link!
Best wishes,
Andre
On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 12:13 AM, Dave Wade wrote: (basically) The 360 series only ran Fortran IV or Fortran 66. If you want Fortran II you can use a 1401 or 1620 simulator. This page:- ?
? covers running this on a 1401 SIMH emulator. There is also a 1401 simulator for S/360 so that could possibly be used. I know the 7090 also had Fortran II ¡.. ? Dave G4UGM
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Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
Andre, Well the old machines like the 1620 and 1401 didn¡¯t have an OS as you probably understand it. The only ran one task at a time. Usually they had what we called a monitor which loaded things in order. From what I remember Fortran II had some horrid restrictions.. ? So:- ? - Only arithmetic IF -> IF(NUMBER) I1, I2, I3
- No quoted strings in FORMAT only ¡°H¡± constants
- No mixed mode arithmetic ¨C so R ?+ I fails. You need to convert them to both real or both integer.
? So all II works in IV but not backwards. I ? Dave G4UGM ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andre
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 7:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-DOSVS] Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.? Hello Dave!
I have managed to run FORTRAN II compiler on SIMH, thanks to link you provided.
As i understood, it runs on bare metal, so no OS at all. Am i right? ?| I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360 Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV. ?| Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running Fortran H you would get much better performance.?
I know that MVS FORTRAN can run old programs, but i wanted to experience limitations of old FORTRAN compiler.
But it looks like FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV are not that different.
Best wishes,
Andre
On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 12:01 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
Andre, Whilst Wikipedea says there was a 1401 emulator for DOS I have never seen a copy. I know the Turnkey MVS people have run the OS 1401 emulator under MVS. There was discussion here:- ? /g/turnkey-mvs/message/846 ? but you will have to join the turnkey-mvs group to read it. Whilst I am not an expert moving code from OS to DOS isn¡¯t trivial. Around 20 years ago there was some discussion on 1401 emulation on the IBM-Main bitserv list which is in google groups here:- ?
? from what reading I have done the 1401 Fortran was somewhat limited. ? I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360 Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV. Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running Fortran H you would get much better performance. So if you really want to torture yourself with Fortran II I think you for quickness you are down to the 1401 version either standalone or on Turnkey MVS. If you want to run bigger programs, probably the 1620 on SIMH would be the best option. I will try and have a look at this later, but I always find producing working FORTRAN II code a challenge. ? Dave p.s. there was also a 1620 emulator. There is info here:- ?
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Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
Hi,
The earliest Fortran II compiler that I know of is the one for the
704. That is available a few places. Getting a tape built to run it
is a bit of a challenge.
Rich
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I have managed to run FORTRAN II compiler on SIMH, thanks to link you
provided. As i understood, it runs on bare metal, so no OS at all. Am
i right?
| I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t
see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360
Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran
II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV.
| Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker
compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running Fortran
H you would get much better performance.
I know that MVS FORTRAN can run old programs, but i wanted to
experience limitations of old FORTRAN compiler. But it looks like
FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV are not that different.
Best wishes,
Andre
On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 12:01 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
Andre,
Whilst Wikipedea says there was a 1401 emulator for DOS I have
never seen a copy. I know the Turnkey MVS people have run the OS
1401 emulator under MVS. There was discussion here:-
/g/turnkey-mvs/message/846
but you will have to join the turnkey-mvs group to read it. Whilst
I am not an expert moving code from OS to DOS isn¡¯t trivial.
Around 20 years ago there was some discussion on 1401 emulation on
the IBM-Main bitserv list which is in google groups here:-
from what reading I have done the 1401 Fortran was somewhat limited.
I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t
see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360
Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran
II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV.
Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker
compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running
Fortran H you would get much better performance.
So if you really want to torture yourself with Fortran II I think
you for quickness you are down to the 1401 version either
standalone or on Turnkey MVS.
If you want to run bigger programs, probably the 1620 on SIMH would
be the best option. I will try and have a look at this later, but I
always find producing working FORTRAN II code a challenge.
Dave
p.s. there was also a 1620 emulator. There is info here:-
--
==========================================================================
Richard Cornwell
rich@...
LinkedIn:
==========================================================================
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Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
Hello Dave! I have managed to run FORTRAN II compiler on SIMH, thanks to link you provided. As i understood, it runs on bare metal, so no OS at all. Am i right?
?| I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360 Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV.
?| Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running Fortran H you would get much better performance.?
I know that MVS FORTRAN can run old programs, but i wanted to experience limitations of old FORTRAN compiler. But it looks like FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV are not that different. Best wishes, Andre
On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 12:01 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
Andre,
Whilst Wikipedea says there was a 1401 emulator for DOS I have never seen a copy. I know the Turnkey MVS people have run the OS 1401 emulator under MVS. There was discussion here:-
?
/g/turnkey-mvs/message/846
?
but you will have to join the turnkey-mvs group to read it. Whilst I am not an expert moving code from OS to DOS isn¡¯t trivial.
Around 20 years ago there was some discussion on 1401 emulation on the IBM-Main bitserv list which is in google groups here:-
?
?
from what reading I have done the 1401 Fortran was somewhat limited.
?
I expect that there was little use of Fortran II on 360. I can¡¯t see what any Fortran II program wouldn¡¯t run under one the 360 Fortran compilers. From what I remember there is nothing in Fortran II that isn¡¯t in Fortran IV.
Even with the usual Fortran G compiler you would get quicker compiles and runs on a 360. In addition, if you were running Fortran H you would get much better performance.
So if you really want to torture yourself with Fortran II I think you for quickness you are down to the 1401 version either standalone or on Turnkey MVS.
If you want to run bigger programs, probably the 1620 on SIMH would be the best option. I will try and have a look at this later, but I always find producing working FORTRAN II code a challenge.
?
Dave
p.s. there was also a 1620 emulator. There is info here:-
?
|
Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
Hello Fran!
This is a very interesting story. You mentioned that the newspaper used IBM1620 for typesetting. Can you guess which program they were using?
I'm aware that CTSS had TYPSET and RUNOFF, which were released in 1964, but they might have been too primitive for a newspaper.
Do you happen to know if IBM had a professional typesetting application available during that time?
Best wishes,
Andre
|
Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
Hi, Fran,
This page has a lot of good information:
? ???
including source code for a 1401 simulator that ran on S/360 models.? ?No microcode assists needed.? ;-)
Mark S. Waterbury
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Re: Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules.
Fortran was my first language.? I took a class at Butler County Community College. It was their first year (1964, I think) and they had no computing equipment so one night a week we went to the Butler Eagle newspaper to use their The newspaper used the 1620 to do type setting. Of course we used punched cards and we got one shot per night. I don¡¯t know what version of Fortran they were running but I still have a printount of that first program and it looks like Fortran II. ? Each student would dream up their own project for the semester.? I happened to be in a bowling league and my project was a program to keep bowling statistics and calculate averages. I started writing code before we were taught about the first letter of variable names determining if it was an integer or floating point number. You can imagine my frustration when my calculations mixing integers and floating point variables did not give me precise answers. ? Back in those days you stared at your code very carefully playing compiler in your head because if there was anything wrong you had to wait a week to get another shot. ? No such thing as desk checking these days.? It¡¯s so easy to make a little change and run it again, make a change, run it again, etc all day. ? In a little history of computing at Slippery Rock State College I wrote this statement: ? The first computer usage by students was in 1970 for FORTRAN classes.? Their programs were compiled with a stand-alone program called RAX.? We had to shutdown DOS in order to RAX.? Later we acquired BUFF40, a fast FORTRAN compiler from the State University of New York at Buffalo.? It ran in DOS/360. ? 
| /Fran Hensler at Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania USA for 52 years?????? mailto:RockFox@...?? ? ?????????????????"Yes, Virginia, there is a Slippery Rock" ? |
? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Wade Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 5:14 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [H390-DOSVS] Earliest FORTRAN COMPILER available for use with Hercules. ? Andre, ? (basically) The 360 series only ran Fortran IV or Fortran 66. If you want Fortran II you can use a 1401 or 1620 simulator. This page:- ?
? covers running this on a 1401 SIMH emulator. There is also a 1401 simulator for S/360 so that could possibly be used. I know the 7090 also had Fortran II ¡.. ? Dave G4UGM ?????????????? ? ? Hello Everyone!
I know this may sound strange, but when you're trying to delve into the history of computer technologies,
the earliest version of a program can be much more valuable than the latest one.
In 1958, FORTRAN II was released. Is there a version of it available for DOS360?
What is the earliest version of FORTRAN that is accessible for Hercules?
Best wishes,
Andre
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Ren¨¦ Ferland
Marcel Faber
Fran Hensler