|
In the future René will be working on changing the hand controller code to make some improvements. One of them is to add the capability of reversing the direction of the RA or DEC buttons on the Graphics Screen and also on the Tactile buttons separately.
The problem is that he cannot change the graphics to indicate the reversed buttons. I suggested maybe a < (Current RA Graphic) (current RA graphic)> when the RA is reversed, and ^ and it's reverse for the DEC. May for the tactile buttons doing the same on the inside of the buttons instead the outside. There is really very little room even for the above suggestions.
There can be no graphics change including color, size or anything, because graphics takes up to much room.
Suggestions please.
I created a table for this called Button Reversal.
There is a section for each button direction and a Number of agreements.
If you agree with a suggestion, please change the Number of agreement by adding +1 to the already posted number. If you do not like a suggestion, please do not subtract from the number of agreements, but make your own suggestion. I am trying to make this both a poll and database.
Tom Hilton
|
The check boxes to reverse the buttons is going to be on a separate screen from where the check boxes is. This is because there is not enough room on the main screen to put the reversal check boxes, so please don't make check boxes on the main screen a suggestion.
Thanks
Tom Hilton
|
Should have read
The check boxes to reverse the buttons is going to be on a separate
screen from where the buttons are.
Tom Hilton
|
I don't have my Gemini II yet, so I can't visualize everthing you're describing. But you seem to be suggesting arrow / direction symbols on the buttons.
My preference is that buttons don't show a direction, but would only reflect whether Reverse is active for that button pair. For example, what's the "correct" button direction when I'm using a scope with a finder and a guider, and an external star chart on a PC? Of the 4 views, at least 1 of those may be reversed from the others. All I'd really want to know is if the buttons are reversed, relative to some default value. But maybe I'm alone in that idea.
An example of what I'm suggesting, is for 1 or both buttons in a pair to show an indicator symbol (dot '.' or an 'x') if reversed, and show no symbol when not reversed. Color change is probably better, but you indicated that's off the table.
I'm just putting it out there for consideration. Heck, I'm ok with just putting a sticker on the hand control to remind me when I've reversed a button pair. But since you asked, here it is.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tomhilton1" <tom@...> wrote:
In the future René will be working on changing the hand controller code to make some improvements. One of them is to add the capability of reversing the direction of the RA or DEC buttons on the Graphics Screen and also on the Tactile buttons separately.
The problem is that he cannot change the graphics to indicate the reversed buttons. I suggested maybe a < (Current RA Graphic) (current RA graphic)> when the RA is reversed, and ^ and it's reverse for the DEC. May for the tactile buttons doing the same on the inside of the buttons instead the outside. There is really very little room even for the above suggestions.
There can be no graphics change including color, size or anything, because graphics takes up to much room.
Suggestions please.
I created a table for this called Button Reversal.
There is a section for each button direction and a Number of agreements.
If you agree with a suggestion, please change the Number of agreement by adding +1 to the already posted number. If you do not like a suggestion, please do not subtract from the number of agreements, but make your own suggestion. I am trying to make this both a poll and database.
Tom Hilton
|
Could I ask you to please sign your messages so that we know how to properly address you.
Also please crop your messages by typeing your message at the top of the message you are replying to, then just hold down the delete key till all the first message is gone, or you can also hold down the ctrl key and down arrow, highlight the message and then hit delete.
This really helps people getting these messages by smartphones and by
Daily Digest.
Thanks
Tom Hilton
Group Admin/owner
|
That is also kind of what I suggested. When the reverse button function is selected for example RA, then put the characters < > on each side of the RA buttons. I am not suggesting them because of direction, but because they are close to the shape of the buttons already, and would probably fit the display better than most other characters. They are also ASCII and not graphic symbols. The ▲ and ▼ (alt 30 and Alt 31) might also work, along with ? and ? (alt 16 and alt 17)
Tom Hilton
|
Hi Tom,
What are some scenarios where one would want to do this? You are left handed? In the southern hemisphere? Your finder and main scope present mirror images? Your scope and sky maps are mirror images? Wouldn't you usually do this once and be done with it?
Thanks,
Gale
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tomhilton1" <tom@...> wrote:
In the future René will be working on changing the hand controller code to make some improvements. One of them is to add the capability of reversing the direction of the RA or DEC buttons on the Graphics Screen and also on the Tactile buttons separately.
The problem is that he cannot change the graphics to indicate the reversed buttons. I suggested maybe a < (Current RA Graphic) (current RA graphic)> when the RA is reversed, and ^ and it's reverse for the DEC. May for the tactile buttons doing the same on the inside of the buttons instead the outside. There is really very little room even for the above suggestions.
There can be no graphics change including color, size or anything, because graphics takes up to much room.
Suggestions please.
I created a table for this called Button Reversal.
There is a section for each button direction and a Number of agreements.
If you agree with a suggestion, please change the Number of agreement by adding +1 to the already posted number. If you do not like a suggestion, please do not subtract from the number of agreements, but make your own suggestion. I am trying to make this both a poll and database.
Tom Hilton
|
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide
symbols. Basically it will probably be majority rules.? I am just
trying to help him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@... wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like
to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating
the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters
how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using
them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The
default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning
the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use
it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a
long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the
Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so
would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at
all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are
at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@..." <tom@...> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@... wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit.
Bill
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" <tom@> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
Hi Bill,
Just too lazy :-) Just kidding.
Have you done it for a longer time ? If yes, then tell me how your left hand feels after a while ?? The cable does inhibit the free movement of your fingers over the handcontroller buttons.
Do not forget that you hold the handcontroller for many hours in your hands while observing visually.
These is maybe a nit bit but that does separate a good controller from a bad one ...
In the same way that a cable sticking out from the front of a Handcontroller (as some other mounts or astronomy accessories do have)is not a comfortable way to work. A cable coming out from the back gives you a nice low gravity pint and does not pull your hands always forward and you have to counterarrest backwards and makes you feel tired after a while. (just hold a light hammer in your hands for a while :-) )
Those are all little points onto which oine has to put attention when designing something.
That is not an ergonomic solution ...
Anyhow, Who am I to be writing this :-) . I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha
regards Rainer
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@...> wrote:
So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit.
Bill
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" <tom@> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
I thought so! re("I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha").
Nah, I knew what you meant and just couldn;t resist busting your chops. When I first got my Gemini, I debated whether to operate it with the cable sticking out from the top or bottom. (I settled on the bottom.) Funny how we adopt techniques arbitrarily and then can't live with doing it any other way.
Regards,
Your neighbor to the north.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Just too lazy :-) Just kidding.
Have you done it for a longer time ? If yes, then tell me how your left hand feels after a while ?? The cable does inhibit the free movement of your fingers over the handcontroller buttons.
Do not forget that you hold the handcontroller for many hours in your hands while observing visually.
These is maybe a nit bit but that does separate a good controller from a bad one ...
In the same way that a cable sticking out from the front of a Handcontroller (as some other mounts or astronomy accessories do have)is not a comfortable way to work. A cable coming out from the back gives you a nice low gravity pint and does not pull your hands always forward and you have to counterarrest backwards and makes you feel tired after a while. (just hold a light hammer in your hands for a while :-) )
Those are all little points onto which oine has to put attention when designing something.
That is not an ergonomic solution ...
Anyhow, Who am I to be writing this :-) . I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@> wrote:
So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit.
Bill
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" <tom@> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
Hi Bill,
Just think about how you control your mount via the handcontroller right now.
You surely use both hands in order to press the buttons.
? Have you thought about your left hand and the distance of the buttons to your left thumb ?
Try it and you will be enlightened :-) ha ha ha
... but who am I ?? I do not even know where I left my DeLuxe Handpaddles :-( bua bua bua
regards Rainer
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@...> wrote:
I thought so! re("I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha").
Nah, I knew what you meant and just couldn;t resist busting your chops. When I first got my Gemini, I debated whether to operate it with the cable sticking out from the top or bottom. (I settled on the bottom.) Funny how we adopt techniques arbitrarily and then can't live with doing it any other way.
Regards,
Your neighbor to the north.
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Just too lazy :-) Just kidding.
Have you done it for a longer time ? If yes, then tell me how your left hand feels after a while ?? The cable does inhibit the free movement of your fingers over the handcontroller buttons.
Do not forget that you hold the handcontroller for many hours in your hands while observing visually.
These is maybe a nit bit but that does separate a good controller from a bad one ...
In the same way that a cable sticking out from the front of a Handcontroller (as some other mounts or astronomy accessories do have)is not a comfortable way to work. A cable coming out from the back gives you a nice low gravity pint and does not pull your hands always forward and you have to counterarrest backwards and makes you feel tired after a while. (just hold a light hammer in your hands for a while :-) )
Those are all little points onto which oine has to put attention when designing something.
That is not an ergonomic solution ...
Anyhow, Who am I to be writing this :-) . I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@> wrote:
So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit.
Bill
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" <tom@> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
I do not want to hold René up in his coding of the hand controller any further. Since there was no real suggestions, just questions as to why even do this, I will remove the database and let René do what ever he wants. I don't want to influence him. I already caused some major code changes, and really don't want to do that again.
Tom Hilton
|
Yes, one of the few "annoyances", as it were, is having to press the alternate button to speed up movement. Otherwise, I mainly use one hand. I can't envision a software solution other than possibly if I depress a button twice in rapid succession that would increment the speed to the next level. And if I press again once, it would return to the speed at which it started. Just thinking out loud.
And I don't think it would be much to implement your suggestion to map the buttons to different directions. That might be a feature for down the road once the system is past the normal beta fixes.
Man, I love my Gemini. It is SO engrained. (And I know my way pretty well around the NexStar system.)
Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
USA
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Just think about how you control your mount via the handcontroller right now.
You surely use both hands in order to press the buttons.
? Have you thought about your left hand and the distance of the buttons to your left thumb ?
Try it and you will be enlightened :-) ha ha ha
... but who am I ?? I do not even know where I left my DeLuxe Handpaddles :-( bua bua bua
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@> wrote:
I thought so! re("I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha").
Nah, I knew what you meant and just couldn;t resist busting your chops. When I first got my Gemini, I debated whether to operate it with the cable sticking out from the top or bottom. (I settled on the bottom.) Funny how we adopt techniques arbitrarily and then can't live with doing it any other way.
Regards,
Your neighbor to the north.
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Just too lazy :-) Just kidding.
Have you done it for a longer time ? If yes, then tell me how your left hand feels after a while ?? The cable does inhibit the free movement of your fingers over the handcontroller buttons.
Do not forget that you hold the handcontroller for many hours in your hands while observing visually.
These is maybe a nit bit but that does separate a good controller from a bad one ...
In the same way that a cable sticking out from the front of a Handcontroller (as some other mounts or astronomy accessories do have)is not a comfortable way to work. A cable coming out from the back gives you a nice low gravity pint and does not pull your hands always forward and you have to counterarrest backwards and makes you feel tired after a while. (just hold a light hammer in your hands for a while :-) )
Those are all little points onto which oine has to put attention when designing something.
That is not an ergonomic solution ...
Anyhow, Who am I to be writing this :-) . I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@> wrote:
So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit.
Bill
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" <tom@> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
|
René provided the New hand controller code to the beta group for testing.
He put an < in the middle of the Right RA button if the RA on the Graphics screens are reversed and a > in the Left RA button if the tactile RA buttons are reversed. A down arrow in the top DEC button if the DEC buttons are reversed on the Graphics screen and a ^ if the DEC buttons are reversed on the tactile Dec buttons.
Tom Hilton
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tomhilton1" <tom@...> wrote:
I do not want to hold René up in his coding of the hand controller any further. Since there was no real suggestions, just questions as to why even do this, I will remove the database and let René do what ever he wants. I don't want to influence him. I already caused some major code changes, and really don't want to do that again.
Tom Hilton
|
Hi Bill,
?
I have that same problem using the hand control...Usually "Guide" is too slow and accidently hitting the opposite button drives the object right off if I am not counting the times I press the button. How is this handled in professional telescopes ?
?
Frank ?
To: Gemini-II@... From: wjshaheen@... Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 20:46:34 +0000 Subject: [Gemini-II] Re: Future Hand controller code
?
Yes, one of the few "annoyances", as it were, is having to press the alternate button to speed up movement. Otherwise, I mainly use one hand. I can't envision a software solution other than possibly if I depress a button twice in rapid succession that would increment the speed to the next level. And if I press again once, it would return to the speed at which it started. Just thinking out loud.
And I don't think it would be much to implement your suggestion to map the buttons to different directions. That might be a feature for down the road once the system is past the normal beta fixes.
Man, I love my Gemini. It is SO engrained. (And I know my way pretty well around the NexStar system.)
Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
USA
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--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Just think about how you control your mount via the handcontroller right now. > > You surely use both hands in order to press the buttons. > > ? Have you thought about your left hand and the distance of the buttons to your left thumb ? > > Try it and you will be enlightened :-) ha ha ha > > ... but who am I ?? I do not even know where I left my DeLuxe Handpaddles :-( bua bua bua > > regards Rainer > > > --- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" wrote: > > > > I thought so! re("I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big ha ha ha"). > > > > Nah, I knew what you meant and just couldn;t resist busting your chops. When I first got my Gemini, I debated whether to operate it with the cable sticking out from the top or bottom. (I settled on the bottom.) Funny how we adopt techniques arbitrarily and then can't live with doing it any other way. > > > > Regards, > > > > Your neighbor to the north. > > > > > > > > --- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > Just too lazy :-) Just kidding. > > > > > > Have you done it for a longer time ? If yes, then tell me how your left hand feels after a while ?? The cable does inhibit the free movement of your fingers over the handcontroller buttons. > > > > > > Do not forget that you hold the handcontroller for many hours in your hands while observing visually. > > > > > > These is maybe a nit bit but that does separate a good controller from a bad one ... > > > > > > In the same way that a cable sticking out from the front of a Handcontroller (as some other mounts or astronomy accessories do have)is not a comfortable way to work. A cable coming out from the back gives you a nice low gravity pint and does not pull your hands always forward and you have to counterarrest backwards and makes you feel tired after a while. (just hold a light hammer in your hands for a while :-) ) > > > > > > Those are all little points onto which oine has to put attention when designing something. > > > > > > That is not an ergonomic solution ... > > > > > > Anyhow, Who am I to be writing this :-) . I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big ha ha ha > > > > > > regards Rainer > > > > > > > > > --- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" wrote: > > > > > > > > So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > > > > > No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian. > > > > > > > > > > Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons. > > > > > > > > > > Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons. > > > > > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > > > > > Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ... > > > > > > > > > > Just my II cents to this. > > > > > > > > > > regards Rainer > > > > > > > > > > --- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > PS > > > > > > René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for > > > > > > reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols. > > > > > > Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help > > > > > > him get the data he requested. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Hilton > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gale > > > > > > > all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them > > > > > > > follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand > > > > > > > controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want > > > > > > > to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the > > > > > > > front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at > > > > > > > this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller > > > > > > > over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that > > > > > > > way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since > > > > > > > I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement > > > > > > > reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not > > > > > > > be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of > > > > > > > this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy > > > > > > > for upgrade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Hilton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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Hi Bill and Frank.
On the graphics controller, in the lower left corner is a speed button. It takes you to Guide, Center, Move to slew. all of these speed are programmable by the user.
The tactile buttons works like they did on the Gemini 1 if I remember correctly. It has been a while since I tested them as I don't have motors. They are at Losmandy.
Tom Hilton
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How is this handled in professional telescopes? I wouldn't know. :O)
Maybe they use joysticks which have 2 or more positions in any direction. Push it once to the right for Guide speed, farther to the right for Centering speed...
Just hypothesizing.
Bill
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--- In Gemini-II@..., Frank Mraz <FJMRAZ@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,
I have that same problem using the hand control...Usually "Guide" is too slow and accidently hitting the opposite button drives the object right off if I am not counting the times I press the button. How is this handled in professional telescopes ?
Frank
To: Gemini-II@...
From: wjshaheen@...
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 20:46:34 +0000
Subject: [Gemini-II] Re: Future Hand controller code
Yes, one of the few "annoyances", as it were, is having to press the alternate button to speed up movement. Otherwise, I mainly use one hand. I can't envision a software solution other than possibly if I depress a button twice in rapid succession that would increment the speed to the next level. And if I press again once, it would return to the speed at which it started. Just thinking out loud.
And I don't think it would be much to implement your suggestion to map the buttons to different directions. That might be a feature for down the road once the system is past the normal beta fixes.
Man, I love my Gemini. It is SO engrained. (And I know my way pretty well around the NexStar system.)
Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
USA
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Just think about how you control your mount via the handcontroller right now.
You surely use both hands in order to press the buttons.
? Have you thought about your left hand and the distance of the buttons to your left thumb ?
Try it and you will be enlightened :-) ha ha ha
... but who am I ?? I do not even know where I left my DeLuxe Handpaddles :-( bua bua bua
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@> wrote:
I thought so! re("I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha").
Nah, I knew what you meant and just couldn;t resist busting your chops. When I first got my Gemini, I debated whether to operate it with the cable sticking out from the top or bottom. (I settled on the bottom.) Funny how we adopt techniques arbitrarily and then can't live with doing it any other way.
Regards,
Your neighbor to the north.
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Bill,
Just too lazy :-) Just kidding.
Have you done it for a longer time ? If yes, then tell me how your left hand feels after a while ?? The cable does inhibit the free movement of your fingers over the handcontroller buttons.
Do not forget that you hold the handcontroller for many hours in your hands while observing visually.
These is maybe a nit bit but that does separate a good controller from a bad one ...
In the same way that a cable sticking out from the front of a Handcontroller (as some other mounts or astronomy accessories do have)is not a comfortable way to work. A cable coming out from the back gives you a nice low gravity pint and does not pull your hands always forward and you have to counterarrest backwards and makes you feel tired after a while. (just hold a light hammer in your hands for a while :-) )
Those are all little points onto which oine has to put attention when designing something.
That is not an ergonomic solution ...
Anyhow, Who am I to be writing this :-) . I have not touched the Handcontroller for the last 4 years Big <G> ha ha ha
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "William Shaheen" <wjshaheen@> wrote:
So, why not just rotate the hand-controller as you hold it? For example, with the cable extending off to your left. You can then reverse the directions of either buttons to suit.
Bill
--- In Gemini-II@..., "Rainer" <rsbfoto@> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, the DEC movement does not reverse do to a Meridian.
Just right now I was thinking that the arrangement of the movements on the buttons is not quite logical, as you just mentioned that some people would like to rotate the buttons.
Well if I am sitting behind the mount and pointing the telescope North I would like to have the RA East an West movement on the vertical buttons and the DEC movements on the horizontal buttons.
Why ?
Because a button póinting away from me is forward and one pointing to me is backward. So forward means move to the West and backwards means move to the East
and
Right means move to the NOrth and Left move to the South ...
Just my II cents to this.
regards Rainer
--- In Gemini-II@..., "tom@" <tom@> wrote:
PS
René asked me to get the opinions of what the users would prefer for
reverse symbols, not where to provide symbols or not provide symbols.
Basically it will probably be majority rules. I am just trying to help
him get the data he requested.
Tom Hilton
On 2/27/2011 9:35 PM, tom@ wrote:
Gale
all of the scenarios you presented, plus some people like to make them
follow the movement of the telescope, by either rotating the hand
controller of flipping the buttons. Also it also matters how you want
to use the tactile buttons on the rear. Some are using them from the
front, and some are turning the controller over. The default mode at
this time is to use them from the front, without turning the controller
over. If you want to turn the hand controller over and use it that
way, you need to reverse the RA buttons. It has been a long time since
I tracked past the meridian, do to obstructions. Don't the Dec movement
reverse relative to the sky after a meridian flip? If so would it not
be nice to be able to reverse the DEC buttons. I am not at all sure of
this through. I cannot test it either as all my motors are at Losmandy
for upgrade.
Tom Hilton
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