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Hi,
Since a week I have a big problem on the g11 gemini2 of mu observatory.
This is the third time I found the mount complexity stopped.
Seems both motors stopped working during the night.
After that almost impossible to move any axes, even after power cycle.
I have the message RA/dec lag message.
I passed the whole Sunday in the observatory trying to find find the failing component
Swapping cable with old ones : work better. (Move a little between fails)
Swapping motor no change
Removing motor no change
Unplug ra motor : dec works normally
Unplug dec motor no change
At the end I was able to retrieve a fully functional mount after swapping the optical encoder of the ra motor with the one of an old legacy svm motor
… but only for 2 days.
This night complete failure again.
Even worst. No move at all. Try ten of power cycle. Even reformat of scared
I had to phone someone to move the telescope to be able to close the observatory.
I believe the problem is on the gemini computer itself.
Given the symptom do you believe a repair is possible ?
Does it seems like a known failure `?
Thanks
Erwan
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Hi Erwan
Were there motor stall messages when this happened? have you tried adjusting the worm mesh??
things that most often cause/ lag/stall 1. insufficient power 2. worm mesh too tight 3. telescope not properly balanced
On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:21 PM erwan quigna < equigna@...> wrote: Hi,
Since a week I have a big problem on the g11 gemini2 of mu observatory.
This is the third time I found the mount complexity stopped.
Seems both motors stopped working during the night.
After that almost impossible to move any axes, even after power cycle.
I have the message RA/dec lag message.
I passed the whole Sunday in the observatory trying to find find the failing component
Swapping cable with old ones : work better. (Move a little between fails)
Swapping motor no change
Removing motor no change
Unplug ra motor : dec works normally
Unplug dec motor no change
At the end I was able to retrieve a fully functional mount after swapping the optical encoder of the ra motor with the one of an old legacy svm motor
… but only for 2 days.
This night complete failure again.
Even worst. No move at all. Try ten of power cycle. Even reformat of scared
I had to phone someone to move the telescope to be able to close the observatory.
I believe the problem is on the gemini computer itself.
Given the symptom do you believe a repair is possible ?
Does it seems like a known failure `?
Thanks
Erwan
-- Brian?
Brian Valente astro portfolio? portfolio astrobin?
--
Brian
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Is your Gemini 2 one of the old “long boys” or the current, square Gemini 2. The older “long boys” occasionally suffer from a broken solder joint that can cause an RA failure message. It’s a simple fix but does require some soldering. Try Brian’s suggestions first and if still no joy contact Tonya at Losmandy (better to call in the afternoon) and she can walk through some additional steps. I had a similar issue a few months ago and ended up sending my Gemini 2 box in for repair as I’m not comfortable soldering electronics. Total cost including shipping was about $100.
Best,
Roger K.
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On Feb 21, 2023, at 1:21 PM, erwan quigna <equigna@...> wrote:
Hi,
Since a week I have a big problem on the g11 gemini2 of mu observatory.
This is the third time I found the mount complexity stopped.
Seems both motors stopped working during the night.
After that almost impossible to move any axes, even after power cycle.
I have the message RA/dec lag message.
I passed the whole Sunday in the observatory trying to find find the failing component
Swapping cable with old ones : work better. (Move a little between fails)
Swapping motor no change
Removing motor no change
Unplug ra motor : dec works normally
Unplug dec motor no change
At the end I was able to retrieve a fully functional mount after swapping the optical encoder of the ra motor with the one of an old legacy svm motor
… but only for 2 days.
This night complete failure again.
Even worst. No move at all. Try ten of power cycle. Even reformat of scared
I had to phone someone to move the telescope to be able to close the observatory.
I believe the problem is on the gemini computer itself.
Given the symptom do you believe a repair is possible ?
Does it seems like a known failure `?
Thanks
Erwan
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The problem even exist with motors removed from the mount
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Yes I have the old one
I am i france and very proficient in electronics.
Good point I will try a rework of all soldering
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Le 21 févr. 2023 à 22:36, rkaufmann87@... a écrit :
Is your Gemini 2 one of the old “long boys” or the current, square Gemini 2. The older “long boys” occasionally suffer from a broken solder joint that can cause an RA failure message. It’s a simple fix but does require some soldering. Try Brian’s suggestions first and if still no joy contact Tonya at Losmandy (better to call in the afternoon) and she can walk through some additional steps. I had a similar issue a few months ago and ended up sending my Gemini 2 box in for repair as I’m not comfortable soldering electronics. Total cost including shipping was about $100.
Best,
Roger K.
On Feb 21, 2023, at 1:21 PM, erwan quigna <equigna@...> wrote:
Hi,
Since a week I have a big problem on the g11 gemini2 of mu observatory.
This is the third time I found the mount complexity stopped.
Seems both motors stopped working during the night.
After that almost impossible to move any axes, even after power cycle.
I have the message RA/dec lag message.
I passed the whole Sunday in the observatory trying to find find the failing component
Swapping cable with old ones : work better. (Move a little between fails)
Swapping motor no change
Removing motor no change
Unplug ra motor : dec works normally
Unplug dec motor no change
At the end I was able to retrieve a fully functional mount after swapping the optical encoder of the ra motor with the one of an old legacy svm motor
… but only for 2 days.
This night complete failure again.
Even worst. No move at all. Try ten of power cycle. Even reformat of scared
I had to phone someone to move the telescope to be able to close the observatory.
I believe the problem is on the gemini computer itself.
Given the symptom do you believe a repair is possible ?
Does it seems like a known failure `?
Thanks
Erwan
|
In the first instance I suspect that you may have had an unusually cold period causing over-tight worm to ring mesh which caused stalls.
However a faulty encoder could certainly cause similar problems,
The only way to determine this is to have both the Gemini and both motors on the desk in front of you.
If you can arrange that, there are tests you can undertake:
1) after startup is the RA motor turning slowly and does it resist gentle attempts to turn it by hand against that motion or trying to make it move faster? If yes, the RA motor is good.
2) Does the DEC motor resist attempts to move it as above.
3) To double check the DEC motor you can swap the motors.
If the above isn't what you encounter then tell us what does happen?
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of erwan quigna Sent: 21 February 2023 21:21 To: [email protected]Subject: [Gemini-II_io] RA lag both motors stopped Hi, Since a week I have a big problem on the g11 gemini2 of mu observatory. This is the third time I found the mount complexity stopped. Seems both motors stopped working during the night. After that almost impossible to move any axes, even after power cycle. I have the message RA/dec lag message. I passed the whole Sunday in the observatory trying to find find the failing component Swapping cable with old ones : work better. (Move a little between fails) Swapping motor no change Removing motor no change Unplug ra motor : dec works normally Unplug dec motor no change At the end I was able to retrieve a fully functional mount after swapping the optical encoder of the ra motor with the one of an old legacy svm motor … but only for 2 days. This night complete failure again. Even worst. No move at all. Try ten of power cycle. Even reformat of scared I had to phone someone to move the telescope to be able to close the observatory. I believe the problem is on the gemini computer itself. Given the symptom do you believe a repair is possible ? Does it seems like a known failure `? Thanks Erwan
|
Hi,
I remade all soldering of din plug on the mainboard and verify visually all the others. looks good.
After that mounts works well for 10mn.?
Then I had again both messages?
back from powerfail
DEC LAG
Try with another 13V power. .. worst (problem appear much faster)
Then back on the main power and increase voltage from 15,2 to 16v
Got RA lag message only once then nothing for at least 30mn
something in the power rail ???
thanks erwan
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Hi,
Hi have changed power supply. still 16V and I have the same error again.
Is there components on which I can verify voltage on the gemini mainboard to find if I have a power drop somewhere on the mainboard ?
erwan
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My strong suspicion is that the worm mesh is too tight on the DEC axis. ? As an initial test, remove both motors from the mount and run your test again. ? Let us know what happens. ? D. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of erwan quigna
Sent: 24 February 2023 21:56
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] RA lag both motors stopped? Hi,
I remade all soldering of din plug on the mainboard and verify visually all the others. looks good.
After that mounts works well for 10mn.?
Then I had again both messages?
back from powerfail
DEC LAG
Try with another 13V power. .. worst (problem appear much faster)
Then back on the main power and increase voltage from 15,2 to 16v
Got RA lag message only once then nothing for at least 30mn
something in the power rail ???
thanks erwan
|
It is one of rhe fiest test i havr done. Swap motor c?ble and after remove motors
Envoyé de mon iPhone
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Le 11 mars 2023 à 11:09, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@...> a écrit?:
?
My strong suspicion is that the worm mesh is too tight on the DEC axis.
?
As an initial test, remove both motors from the mount and run your test again.
?
Let us know what happens.
?
D.
?
?
Hi,
I remade all soldering of din plug on the mainboard and verify visually all the others. looks good.
After that mounts works well for 10mn.?
Then I had again both messages?
back from powerfail
DEC LAG
Try with another 13V power. .. worst (problem appear much faster)
Then back on the main power and increase voltage from 15,2 to 16v
Got RA lag message only once then nothing for at least 30mn
something in the power rail ???
thanks erwan
|
So you had the same problem with the motors removed? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of erwan quigna
Sent: 11 March 2023 11:11
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] RA lag both motors stopped? It is one of rhe fiest test i havr done. Swap motor c?ble and after remove motors ? My strong suspicion is that the worm mesh is too tight on the DEC axis. ? As an initial test, remove both motors from the mount and run your test again. ? Let us know what happens. ? D. ? ? Hi,
I remade all soldering of din plug on the mainboard and verify visually all the others. looks good.
After that mounts works well for 10mn.?
Then I had again both messages?
back from powerfail
DEC LAG
Try with another 13V power. .. worst (problem appear much faster)
Then back on the main power and increase voltage from 15,2 to 16v
Got RA lag message only once then nothing for at least 30mn
something in the power rail ???
thanks erwan
|
Yes?
It seems to be fixes after increasing voltage to 16v
But this morning it blocks again
I didn t had time yet today to do all debug test but… but as it is intermittent fails it may be difficult to find
I have a numeric scope that may record signal
Erwan
Envoyé de mon iPhone
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Le 11 mars 2023 à 12:36, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@...> a écrit?:
?
So you had the same problem with the motors removed?
?
?
It is one of rhe fiest test i havr done. Swap motor c?ble and after remove motors
?
My strong suspicion is that the worm mesh is too tight on the DEC axis.
?
As an initial test, remove both motors from the mount and run your test again.
?
Let us know what happens.
?
D.
?
?
Hi,
I remade all soldering of din plug on the mainboard and verify visually all the others. looks good.
After that mounts works well for 10mn.?
Then I had again both messages?
back from powerfail
DEC LAG
Try with another 13V power. .. worst (problem appear much faster)
Then back on the main power and increase voltage from 15,2 to 16v
Got RA lag message only once then nothing for at least 30mn
something in the power rail ???
thanks erwan
|
Are these original style motors?? It could be that the motors are dying of old age (brushes or maybe the internal capacitors failing)? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of erwan quigna
Sent: 11 March 2023 12:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] RA lag both motors stopped? Yes? It seems to be fixes after increasing voltage to 16v But this morning it blocks again I didn t had time yet today to do all debug test but… but as it is intermittent fails it may be difficult to find I have a numeric scope that may record signal Erwan ? So you had the same problem with the motors removed? ? ? It is one of rhe fiest test i havr done. Swap motor c?ble and after remove motors ? My strong suspicion is that the worm mesh is too tight on the DEC axis. ? As an initial test, remove both motors from the mount and run your test again. ? Let us know what happens. ? D. ? ? Hi,
I remade all soldering of din plug on the mainboard and verify visually all the others. looks good.
After that mounts works well for 10mn.?
Then I had again both messages?
back from powerfail
DEC LAG
Try with another 13V power. .. worst (problem appear much faster)
Then back on the main power and increase voltage from 15,2 to 16v
Got RA lag message only once then nothing for at least 30mn
something in the power rail ???
thanks erwan
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Hi,
I think I have the issue after hours and hours of search.
I have a dual failure on one of the motor.
1) bad connection of encoder on the motor MB. change the IC like connector. Now I didn't t have any more RA Lag errors
2) Still have sometime motor stop and back after powerfail on gemini. just before failure I have spike up ti 2A consumption. unsolder completely the motor. It works normally but consume 2a at 4v where the motor consume 0.3 .... So the motor itself is also defective !
I must be the most unlucky guy. The is HT motors
I will buy new motors ... again... third died motor in 20 years
erwan
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I received my kit yesterday.? However, based on the number of problem installs i have seen reported on this thread, i will not install level 6.? I may flash the servos, but retain level 5 and wait for a stable release in the future.
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On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 12:25 PM, scottinharwood wrote:
I received my kit yesterday.? However, based on the number of problem installs i have seen reported on this thread, i will not install level 6.? I may flash the servos, but retain level 5 and wait for a stable release in the future.
You do realize that you're replying to a thread with motor issues where Gemini hasn't been updated to L6 yet, right? Motors can go bad after many years, regardless of Gemini version. Of course, it's your choice when to update, but not all issues reported here have to do with the upgrade :) Regards, ? ?-Paul
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??? my thread was not about the upgrade ???
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Also,?
Please remember this is a help thread so don’t think all the installs are problematic. What you’re basing your opinion on is like moving to a new town, then visiting a hospital to get an idea of the overall health of the community. Naturally after walking out of that hospital you’d think, “hmmm most everyone is sick there so I shouldn’t move here. "
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On Jun 24, 2023, at 9:25?AM, scottinharwood <scottinharwood@...> wrote:
I received my kit yesterday.? However, based on the number of problem installs i have seen reported on this thread, i will not install level 6.? I may flash the servos, but retain level 5 and wait for a stable release in the future.
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Good point.? In fact, given the way Losmandy communicates with
customers, this group hears about a large proportion of the
problems that exist.?? I don't know how many Losmandy owners are
in this group (or would use it if they needed help), but I'm
guessing it's more like 50% than 1%.?? So this is indeed the "zoo"
of unusual and problematic cases, and that doesn't mean they're
common.? You can see just that many problem reports from other
brands in groups that are much smaller fractions of the user base.
(Query: Can you reprogram the servo PICs but not upgrade the CPU
to L6?? I was under the impression the two had to be done
together.)
Also,?
Please remember this is a help thread so don’t think all the
installs are problematic. What you’re basing your opinion on is
like moving to a new town, then visiting a hospital to get an
idea of the overall health of the community. Naturally after
walking out of that hospital you’d think, “hmmm most everyone is
sick there so I shouldn’t move here. "
I received my kit yesterday.? However,
based on the number of problem installs i have seen
reported on this thread, i will not install level 6.? I
may flash the servos, but retain level 5 and wait for a
stable release in the future.
Michael A. Covington, Ph.D.
Consultant, Covington Innovations, Athens, Georgia, USA
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On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 05:12 PM, Michael A. Covington wrote:
(Query: Can you reprogram the servo PICs but not upgrade the CPU to L6?? I was under the impression the two had to be done together.)
Yes, indeed. It's backward compatible. You can always flash back to L5 if you want to compare the behavior to L6 with GFU or directly. To get all the benefits of L6, you'll want to have both, new PIC firmware and new L6 firmware together, but they can be used independent of each other. Regards, ? ?-Paul
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David C. Partridge
scottinharwood
Paul Kanevsky