Re: Gemini-2 stops tracking & losses comms to PC and HC during NINA sessions
Hi Mike,
?
There have now been a few reports of similar behavior. Unfortunately, the logs don't capture what actually happens at the time of lock-up.
?
A few questions that may or may not be related:
1.? Did you update the bootloader on this Gemini? And?
2. What size and type of SD card is installed in the main unit?
3. Do you have PEC programmed and enabled when this happens?
?
Regards,
?
? ?-Paul
?
On Sun, May 25, 2025 at 04:48 PM, Michael Hundley wrote:
I¡¯m experiencing a new and troubling issue with my Losmandy mount and seeking suggestions/guidance. After roughly 100 successful sessions since receiving the mount (GM811G w/level 6) in 2023 I¡¯ve had multiple instances this month where in the middle of taking exposures using NINA the mount stops tracking (evidence: hours of image files showing nothing but star trails), the virtual Gemini hand-controller cannot communicate with the mount, and the physical hand control responds to key presses until I have it send commands to the Gemini controller at which point it stops responding. The only way to get the system to function is to cycle the power at which point it will work for the rest of the night, exhibiting the standard very good guiding (0.5 to 0.8 RMS) typically for my system.
I have no issues with meridian flips, using PHD2 to calibrate the mount/guide camera + run guiding assistance, initial slew/centering, plate solving, etc. mount limits are set properly. No issues with the windows 11 PC communicating via USB to the cameras (ZWO & QHY), EFW, AEF, Pegasus rotator & power box.
In the first instance the issue happened in the middle of the night, well after the (successful) meridian flip and well away from the safety limits.
After this initial occurrence I changed the gemini-2 coin battery since it was the original battery from August 2023. The old battery was showing 3.06 vdc, new battery initially measures as 3.3vdc (now 3.107 Vdc when read via the web interface).
I had three successful overnight runs after changing the battery so I thought I¡¯d solved the issue ¡ until last night when the same problem occurred. Fortunately, it happened ten minutes into NINA¡¯s sequence so I was able to intervene. Cycling the power, cold starting at the CWD position, followed by un-pausing NINA¡¯s sequencer and the system took good images for the remainder of the night. NINA parked the mount but, oddly, upon checking the system in the morning the NINA sequence was still waiting for confirmation that the mount had parked (even though it had). I found again that the virtual hand control could not communicate with the mount and the physical hand controller seems to freeze when asked it to send a command to the gemini-2 controller.
The ASCOM Gemini log files have the following lines starting at the time when the Gemini controller no longer respond:
Various RetransmitUDP commands followed by:
02:09:17.697 Exception???????????????? TID:11 [Error]: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.UDPSendNACK() in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 222[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.RetransmitUDP() in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 108[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.getEthernetCommandResult(Int32 timeout) in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 361[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.GetCommandResultEthernet(CommandItem command, Boolean bResyncOnError, Boolean& bReturn) in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 508
(this error is repeated endlessly until the mount is powered down)
These same lines appear in each of the ASCOM Gemini log files at the moment when the issue occurs
>> I¡¯ve uploaded the ASCOM Gemini log file from last night that shows these comm errors starting at 21:45:43 <<
I haven¡¯t tried changing the ethernet cable, although if this is a cable issue I would think that the mount should continue to track and the hand controller should be able to communicate with the mount. It seems as the though the controller has entered into a brain-dead state until being power-cycled.
Mainboard firmware v 6.12
Connection type: ethernet
New battery installed (3.107 Vdc)
Losmandy power brick: 15.134 Vdc
running windows 11, ASCOM 7 with update 2
?
guidance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thank you for your help!
?
Mike Hundley
?
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Gemini-2 stops tracking & losses comms to PC and HC during NINA sessions
I¡¯m experiencing a new and troubling issue with my Losmandy mount and seeking suggestions/guidance. After roughly 100 successful sessions since receiving the mount (GM811G w/level 6) in 2023 I¡¯ve had multiple instances this month where in the middle of taking exposures using NINA the mount stops tracking (evidence: hours of image files showing nothing but star trails), the virtual Gemini hand-controller cannot communicate with the mount, and the physical hand control responds to key presses until I have it send commands to the Gemini controller at which point it stops responding. The only way to get the system to function is to cycle the power at which point it will work for the rest of the night, exhibiting the standard very good guiding (0.5 to 0.8 RMS) typically for my system.
I have no issues with meridian flips, using PHD2 to calibrate the mount/guide camera + run guiding assistance, initial slew/centering, plate solving, etc. mount limits are set properly. No issues with the windows 11 PC communicating via USB to the cameras (ZWO & QHY), EFW, AEF, Pegasus rotator & power box.
In the first instance the issue happened in the middle of the night, well after the (successful) meridian flip and well away from the safety limits.
After this initial occurrence I changed the gemini-2 coin battery since it was the original battery from August 2023. The old battery was showing 3.06 vdc, new battery initially measures as 3.3vdc (now 3.107 Vdc when read via the web interface).
I had three successful overnight runs after changing the battery so I thought I¡¯d solved the issue ¡ until last night when the same problem occurred. Fortunately, it happened ten minutes into NINA¡¯s sequence so I was able to intervene. Cycling the power, cold starting at the CWD position, followed by un-pausing NINA¡¯s sequencer and the system took good images for the remainder of the night. NINA parked the mount but, oddly, upon checking the system in the morning the NINA sequence was still waiting for confirmation that the mount had parked (even though it had). I found again that the virtual hand control could not communicate with the mount and the physical hand controller seems to freeze when asked it to send a command to the gemini-2 controller.
The ASCOM Gemini log files have the following lines starting at the time when the Gemini controller no longer respond:
Various RetransmitUDP commands followed by:
02:09:17.697 Exception???????????????? TID:11 [Error]: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.UDPSendNACK() in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 222[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.RetransmitUDP() in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 108[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.getEthernetCommandResult(Int32 timeout) in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 361[0D][0A]?? at ASCOM.GeminiTelescope.GeminiHardwareBase.GetCommandResultEthernet(CommandItem command, Boolean bResyncOnError, Boolean& bReturn) in C:\Users\ypa\Documents\Ascom.Gemini.Telescope\GeminiTelescope\Connection.cs:line 508
(this error is repeated endlessly until the mount is powered down)
These same lines appear in each of the ASCOM Gemini log files at the moment when the issue occurs
>> I¡¯ve uploaded the ASCOM Gemini log file from last night that shows these comm errors starting at 21:45:43 <<
I haven¡¯t tried changing the ethernet cable, although if this is a cable issue I would think that the mount should continue to track and the hand controller should be able to communicate with the mount. It seems as the though the controller has entered into a brain-dead state until being power-cycled.
Mainboard firmware v 6.12
Connection type: ethernet
New battery installed (3.107 Vdc)
Losmandy power brick: 15.134 Vdc
running windows 11, ASCOM 7 with update 2
?
guidance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thank you for your help!
?
Mike Hundley
?
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Re: Wrench for electronics bracket
Hi Larry,
You will probably find the cables to the RA and DEC motors will not reach the controller in the lower configuration.
That is why mine is on the 12" column extension.
Works fine there and has from night one.
So before you move the mounting brackets, check your cables.
?
My FHD tripod came with the 4" MA, and I added the 12" at the time I picked mine up in Burbank.
So I recon I have 16" above the tripod. Works perfectly with my AT130EDT, reducer, rotator, filter drawer, and (finally) camera.
Pretty "crash proof".
?
Anyway, just wanted to let you know about RA and DEC cables length.
--
Sonny Edmonds
GM811G HD
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Re: Gemini 2 Version 1 problem at power up
Brendan,
Great information. I don't see anything of that nature visible. So, I guess it will be heading off to Losmandy next week for repairs. Just fount a problem with my 50" TV set in the spare bedroom now that will not power up eighter. I can turn it on, and the indicator light comes on and slowly goes out, but the TV does not come on. Took it apart and did some voltage checks and the flow stops at a capacitor near and IC. So, I found a new board last night on Ebay, should be here next week.? I lost two main house routers in one week from these storms and the inline router in the observatory once too. In 30 years living here, I never had this much damage before. I will be starting to disconnect things that are not in use and when these bad storms come through.
Thank you for you help and direction,
Niel
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Re: Gemini 2 Version 1 problem at power up
Yes parts are available. ?But H bridge is a little tricky to R&R. ? The repairers have all parts. ?
But a pwr surge you can guarantee more than one IC part is damaged. ? But that¡¯s the job of repairers to manage. ?I¡¯ve repaired pwr surge that lost ARM, DsPIC33 and H bridge. ?I¡¯ve seen ICs with large holes or a crater in them. ? ?All doable returned to service. ?
But of course the risk is a hidden burned track between PCB layers ¡unlikely but cannot be ruled out. ? All you can do is send for an assessment.?
?
cheers
--
Brendan
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Re: Gemini 2 Version 1 problem at power up
Thak you for the information.?
There is not a second input attached.
I have bench tested the unit without the motors, so that is out.
I too suspect and IC or the H bridge. I have not checked the ICs for heat at this point. Is there any way to test the H bridge?
On sending back to Losmandy, I am not sure that they may have parts to repair this older unit so that is a concern too. I'll have to wait to give them a call next week and pose that question.?
One other thing is that this unit is in my observatory hard wired attached to Ethernet router and service computer. A few weeks ago there was a lighting strike near by that took out a bunch of my electronic equipment, Ethernet router to the Observatory and to the Gemin 2 unit, house router, IP supplier equipment and several power supplies. I am thinking that this may have damaged the Gemini system too.?
Any other though that might help would be appreciated.
Thank you for your input,
Niel?
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Re: Gemini 2 Version 1 problem at power up
Neil
?
Do you have the 2nd 12V power out connector plugged in! ? If so remove this and power on. ?It could be an accessory on this line drawing too much current. ? Yes it has 2 fuses one for each line.?
?
If not the power supply has 2 buck converters yo supply 5V and 3v. ?These have ?thermal/current overload. ?The SW LED is powered from 3V ?buck converter. ? One could be dead. ?It will get hot or be damaged.?
Or it¡¯s a part (IC) on the Gemini pulling too much current the LED going out is the buck converter shutting down or a dead Buck converter but read on.?
As to what that part is¡.could be:
a)The buck converters;
b)A part downstream of the converters (an IC); or
c) or a bad H bridge or motor¡.something on the12v in line direct. B
?
At boot the ARM commands the motors (via H bridge) to lock the motor rotors ¡..these are driven directly from 12v (or what ever power you use) in. ??
So remove the motors and pwr on! ? Does it still blow fuses?
If none of the above works or helps ¡.let it blow a fuse¡..earth yourself on case (with lid off) touch top of ICs¡.feel for heat. ?
5A is a huge amount (at 12v it¡¯s 60watts heat for that second or so)¡¡ it will leave a heat trail or hot IC. ? Even for that small amount of time. ?Suffice to say¡.it can only be assessed or fixed by a or Losmandy.
?
I do suspect a bad motor and or dead H bridge as this is direct power in, just past the reverse polarity protection diode. ?I have yet to see a buck converter go bad and blowing 5A fuse indicates a big short cct. ?If it¡¯s a buck or IC it¡¯ll have a burn mark or hole i it. ?Maybe take a few pictures and post them up
?
Get back on this for more help
?
cheers
--
Brendan
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Gemini 2 Version 1 problem at power up
I have discovered a problem with my G2 system today that when I power on the system the switch light comes on from a few seconds and the goes out. At that point I turn off the power switch and check the power plug and find the fuse blown. I have tried this twice with the same results. I have removed the control box cover and inspected the circuit board front and back to see if I could see any problems visually but see nothing. I have two Identical systems so I have tried moving hand controllers and motor wiring to see if that made any difference, but nothing changed.?
Does anyone or has anyone had this type of issue and might offer some suggestion on what to look for or where to test for power??
Thank you for any assistance.?
Niel
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Moderated
Re: Gemini 2 controller PCB on eBay
Folks,
?
I heard from Losmandy that a batch of boards disappeared during shipment to AVEOX 4-5 years ago and was never recovered. These appear to be those boards. Boards sold on Fleabay are not 100% complete according to AVEOX. Apparently they are missing some proprietary chip AVEOX installs at their facility. These boards were never received by AVEOX, and were not flashed or tested by Losmandy. These? boards were likely stolen or misplaced during shipping.
?
Losmandy asks for your cooperation in not supporting the people benefiting from the sale, as they had nothing to do with your Losmandy/Gemini team that developed and continues to support and enhance Gemini hardware and the software.
?
Please keep any further discussion of these boards off the main Losmandy/Gemini groups.?
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
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Re: PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
Ahhh yeah I¡¯m guilty I received it as a test FW so numbered so I knew which was which. ? But it¡¯s the same checksum as Paul David said. ?It became FW3.0. ? So no difference and a mistake by me. ?So I have to use the correct one as it just creates confusion
?
cheers
--
Brendan
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Re: PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
Awesome. Good to know. Thank you.?
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Re: PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 03:53 PM, Francisco wrote:
Ok. I was seeing reference to a higher torque fw on a old thread. Is that in the ¡°latest¡± v3.0? If so, it¡¯s interesting that didn¡¯t trigger a version change.
The v3.0 in the Files section here is the same as 3.1 in Brendan¡¯s photos. That¡¯s the high torque version.
?
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Re: PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
Ok. I was seeing reference to a higher torque fw on a old thread. Is that in the ¡°latest¡± v3.0? If so, it¡¯s interesting that didn¡¯t trigger a version change.?
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Re: Wrench for electronics bracket
Here's info from Losmandy:
We supply all wrenches that are needed for the mounts in the original packaging.?
?
The wrench you need is 3/16¡±
Regards,
?
? -Paul
?
On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 05:59 AM, <larrychristianson@...> wrote:
Hello,
Hope I'm not being too stupid here, but I cannot find a hex wrench to fit the screws which attach the electronics bracket (what holds the Gemini) to the HD tripod.
I got my mount about 18 months ago along with a 12" column extension. I moved the bracket and attached it to the extension.? Now I'd like to move it back to the tripod top.
But I can find no hex wrench that fits the screws.? I thought I kept every tool and screw that came with the mount, and found nothing.? I just don't remember anything special doing this.
None of my US or metric wrenches fit; the socket seems rounded (not stripped) somehow.
Was there a special wrench?
If not, what size is it?
Thanks for any help.
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Re: PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
I was wondering the same thing, so I asked Brendan, since he appears to be the only one in possession of? FW v3.1 :)
?
Turns out it's the same as what's in this group Files and what Losmandy ships (E1E5 checksum) just with an updated version number that Brendan received privately from David. The only difference between these is the version number.
Regards,
?
? ?-Paul
?
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 12:45 PM, Francisco wrote:
In playing with this all ive come across an interesting question.
?
what is the latest servo fw?
?
Ive seen screenshots of someone's HC showing Servo FW 3.10, and there appear to be several versions of v3.0 (which is really strange)?
?
?
?
so what is the latest file,?
In the files here, there is
G2 PIC Servo code v30.zip ?
which on the HC shows v3.0
Its checksum in the MPLAB is E1E5
?
THen there is the file in the?
Losmandy_Gemini2_Level6_DIYUpdate\Card 2 Utilities and Docs\Level 6 Servo Firmware
this file is called Gemini_New.X.production.hex
on the HC shows v3.0
its checksum in the MPLAB is E577
?
neither of these shows a v3.1 and i cant seem to find the v3.1fw.?
?
?
?
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Re: PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
For clarification, there¡¯s little difference between 3 and 3.1.?? Scott shipped version 3 of the servo firmware.?? 3.1 was a slightly later build (days) with a change to the means of communicating the version number to the ARM processor in the Gemini-2.?? Instead of sending 3 over the SPI channel when the ARM asked for the version number, I sent 31 to represent 3.1.??? This was done to handle future enhancements. ? For all practical purposes they are the same. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Francisco via groups.io
Sent: 23 May 2025 17:46
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] Gemini 2 controller PCB on eBay? In playing with this all ive come across an interesting question. what is the latest servo fw? Ive seen screenshots of someone's HC showing Servo FW 3.10, and there appear to be several versions of v3.0 (which is really strange)? so what is the latest file,?
In the files here, there is G2 PIC Servo code v30.zip ? which on the HC shows v3.0 Its checksum in the MPLAB is E1E5 THen there is the file in the?
Losmandy_Gemini2_Level6_DIYUpdate\Card 2 Utilities and Docs\Level 6 Servo Firmware this file is called Gemini_New.X.production.hex its checksum in the MPLAB is E577 neither of these shows a v3.1 and i cant seem to find the v3.1fw.?
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PIC Servo firmware v3.1 vs v3.0?
In playing with this all ive come across an interesting question.
?
what is the latest servo fw?
?
Ive seen screenshots of someone's HC showing Servo FW 3.10, and there appear to be several versions of v3.0 (which is really strange)?
?
?
?
so what is the latest file,?
In the files here, there is
G2 PIC Servo code v30.zip ?
which on the HC shows v3.0
Its checksum in the MPLAB is E1E5
?
THen there is the file in the?
Losmandy_Gemini2_Level6_DIYUpdate\Card 2 Utilities and Docs\Level 6 Servo Firmware
this file is called Gemini_New.X.production.hex
on the HC shows v3.0
its checksum in the MPLAB is E577
?
neither of these shows a v3.1 and i cant seem to find the v3.1fw.?
?
?
?
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Re: Wrench for electronics bracket
On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 05:56 PM, <larrychristianson@...> wrote:
Here a couple of pix of mine
That looks correct and had to be as Losmandy uses US Standard thread here. ?If other tools were used this might gall the bolt edges. ?Assuming a G11 RA, the back Altitude Screw plate secures with two bolts using the same Allen Key. ?Check the tool. ?That bolt should take no more than snugging to provide the needed clamping force for Gemini-2 (more than the short end but much less than hand torque of the long end of an Allen Wrench).?
Assuming light galling, I'd try initially using a ball-end 3/16 key aligned and lightly tapped into place past the rough edges. ?This size had to have been selected because the mount receiver might be left out in the weather with the aluminum threads. ?Be sure to replace the bolt in kind.
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Re: Wrench for electronics bracket
On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 02:56 PM, <larrychristianson@...> wrote:
I tried again with my set and every loose hex wrench I could find.? No luck, crazy.? I can't imagine that they're over-tightened.? Here a couple of pix of mine -?
?
These fasteners look like the usual suspects.? The issue is most likely that your Allen wrenches are poor quality and/or out of spec.? Experience has shown me that stainless steel socket headed cap screw fasteners can be a tight fit.? I've seen this on dovetails from Losmandy, ADM and Farpoint.
?
If your Allen wrenches are a tight fit with conventional flat ground tips try a little wiggly? motion to get them to seat, rotate one flat.? Sometimes inexpensive Allen wrenches are not symetrical, buy another set but a name brand precision set from Wera, Wiha etc. not Harbor Freight brand.? Yes they cost more but they are worth it for their higher precision and hardened tips which help them retain the correct dimensions even when used often.??
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Wrench for electronics bracket
Use E-Putty to glue the Allen Key into the rounded head.
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Paul Kanevsky
Sonny Edmonds
David C. Partridge
Chip Louie