Re: I don't understand why Losmandy disabled the port for the axis encoders
I use the G8 Gemini II with the Nexus DSC controller and the
Losmandy encoders with 311,000 tics.
The mount is permanently installed.
It works well.
My original intention was to work with the Gemini II and the
encoders:
1. Because I wouldn't lose alignment if I bumped into something
unluckily or the same thing happened when changing equipment.
2. I was hoping that the encoders would compensate the worm gear
play and I wouldn't have to use PEC or PEMpro 3 or the possible
future GEMpro.
I bought the encoders from Astrodevices (before i bought the DSC),
only to find out after ordering that they didn't work with the
Gemini II.
Considering the cost of mounts with and without encoders, the
upgrade would be extremely cost-effective for Gemini II owners:
The Eq8 R Pro :4500 Euro, with Encoder in Ra : 7800 Euro
Rainbow Astro prices and Fornax diffence in prices on the same
level
Losmandy Encoder 311000 tic? 545 Euro in Germany and 260 Dollar in
Australia? , 20 minutes to put the encoders working on the mount.
By the way: The manufacturer of the DSC informed me upon inquiry
that they are working on a parking function so that you don't have
to re-align every time.
Best Regards Edwin
Am 15.03.25 um 17:53 schrieb Tomsen:
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I don't understand why Losmandy disabled the port for the axis encoders on the Gemini II. It was present on the Gemini I, so Losmandy wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel.
The reason: There would be so few users who would use encoders, a really great reason.
If I understand correctly, you can connect the Nexus devices in parallel and use the encoders.
I control the mount via Cartes de Ciel, i.e., via Ascom?
The Nexus devices are also capable of being controlled via Ascom, so will the parallel installation work?
Regards, Edwin
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Re: Level 6.1 , HC 1.63/ Changelog
Hi Rainer, it's good to see you!?
?
Regards,
?
? ?-Paul
?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 06:44 PM, Rainer wrote:
Hi Brendan,
?
No it is not me, it is another Rainer, as I am still alive and live in Mexico and thanks for that about being a Legend?? :-0
?
Since April 2018 I have no Losmandy G11 and so also no Gemini anymore.
?
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦ contacted me today :-)
?
best regards to all and thanks for remembering me. It is nice to hear that people still speak about me, be it bad or good because when nobody speaks about you anymore then something is wrong :-) :-) :-)
?
Mexico NHSA Observatory
North 22¡ã 8'35.63"?? West 101¡ã 1'57.16"
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Re: Level 6.1 , HC 1.63/ Changelog
Hi Brendan,
?
No it is not me, it is another Rainer, as I am still alive and live in Mexico and thanks for that about being a Legend?? :-0
?
Since April 2018 I have no Losmandy G11 and so also no Gemini anymore.
?
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦ contacted me today :-)
?
best regards to all and thanks for remembering me. It is nice to hear that people still speak about me, be it bad or good because when nobody speaks about you anymore then something is wrong :-) :-) :-)
?
Mexico NHSA Observatory
North 22¡ã 8'35.63"?? West 101¡ã 1'57.16"
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
?
I suspect it is at the upper limit for my trusty old but fully updated G11G2.? In this configuration it really needs 4 x 21 + 1 x 7 to make it easier to fine tune the balance.? But I was already using the last 21 lb on the GM8G so I had to use 4 x 21 + 1 x 11 + 1 x 7 and drop the counterweights down the shaft a bit.? That said getting the DEC balanced is more time consuming.but it is a lot faster and easier to find the balance point on the bench, mark the spot with painter's tape and then muscle it into place.??
?
Gotta love Losmandy mounts.? IME there is nothing else like the Losmandy company in the EQ mount marketplace.? And whatever they are they will not have Porter slip clutches to push the scope around for those who are more engaged with the night sky.??
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
That's an impressive setup, Chip! There's not much
space left on the counterweight bar! ;)
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦
Am 06.04.25 um 20:17 schrieb Chip Louie
via groups.io:
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Show quoted text
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 08:21 AM, Rene Goerlich wrote:
Chip is right, and
in L6 the motor encoder positions are monitored in the servo
firmware and in the ARM firmware. Pushing the RA axis may
result in Safety Limit violations. A Sync does not help
here, it corrects the apparent position but not the motor
encoder position.
BUT: If someone longs to push the telescope around as we did
in the good ol' star hopping era, I wouldn't do this near to
the Safety Limits, in general. I would push it a bit here to
objects not too far, enjoy it but I would never change the
model, including not SYNCing. Having pushed here and there
and finally being happy, I would just do a GoTo to a nearby,
easily visible object, push the telescope to get it centered
and only if this doesn't work perfectly, I would use the HC
for final centering and do a Sync. Of course this comes w/o
any guarantee, it is NOT a recommendation, ..., disclaimer,
... It is just cheating ;)
Instead of doing this, I would prefer to use the Identify
function. I've sunk quite some work in it. I'm not sure if
it is used often, but it is pretty powerful. Point to an
area, run Identify and you can watch 10 objects one after
the other or do a new identification. Nice f.i. for the
galaxy cluster now in spring. It could be considered a
modern kind of star hopping ;)
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦
?
I? have been using this little trick for many years.? I do a
normal Gemini 2 setup and model then GOTO as needed, then if I
am seeing something interesting I'll fully unlock the well
balanced scope and PUSH-TO the area I want to peruse.? I
sometimes do this while doing EAA Side-By-Side, larger scope
with ASIAIR and camera with a smaller scope coaligned on the
sensor setup for visual on an ADM MAX ALT/AZ aiming device.? But
I use it with a Nexus DSC.? If I feel the need to sync the
Gemini 2 backup I can tell Gemini to GOTO and then I just use
the DSC to get on the same object and then snug the clutches
back down.? Works fine for visual work but for a small sensor I
would follow up with a plate solve and sync the Gemini 2 back
up.? Looks like this:??
?
__
Chip Louie
Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 08:21 AM, Rene Goerlich wrote:
Chip is right, and in L6 the motor encoder positions are monitored in the servo firmware and in the ARM firmware. Pushing the RA axis may result in Safety Limit violations. A Sync does not help here, it corrects the apparent position but not the motor encoder position.
BUT: If someone longs to push the telescope around as we did in the good ol' star hopping era, I wouldn't do this near to the Safety Limits, in general. I would push it a bit here to objects not too far, enjoy it but I would never change the model, including not SYNCing. Having pushed here and there and finally being happy, I would just do a GoTo to a nearby, easily visible object, push the telescope to get it centered and only if this doesn't work perfectly, I would use the HC for final centering and do a Sync. Of course this comes w/o any guarantee, it is NOT a recommendation, ..., disclaimer, ... It is just cheating ;)
Instead of doing this, I would prefer to use the Identify function. I've sunk quite some work in it. I'm not sure if it is used often, but it is pretty powerful. Point to an area, run Identify and you can watch 10 objects one after the other or do a new identification. Nice f.i. for the galaxy cluster now in spring. It could be considered a modern kind of star hopping ;)
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦
?
I? have been using this little trick for many years.? I do a normal Gemini 2 setup and model then GOTO as needed, then if I am seeing something interesting I'll fully unlock the well balanced scope and PUSH-TO the area I want to peruse.? I sometimes do this while doing EAA Side-By-Side, larger scope with ASIAIR and camera with a smaller scope coaligned on the sensor setup for visual on an ADM MAX ALT/AZ aiming device.? But I use it with a Nexus DSC.? If I feel the need to sync the Gemini 2 backup I can tell Gemini to GOTO and then I just use the DSC to get on the same object and then snug the clutches back down.? Works fine for visual work but for a small sensor I would follow up with a plate solve and sync the Gemini 2 back up.? Looks like this:??
?
__
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
Yes I meant using the hand controller.?? Thanks for the info.
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
Chip is right, and in L6 the motor encoder positions
are monitored in the servo firmware and in the ARM firmware.
Pushing the RA axis may result in Safety Limit violations. A Sync
does not help here, it corrects the apparent position but not the
motor encoder position.
BUT: If someone longs to push the telescope around as we did in
the good ol' star hopping era, I wouldn't do this near to the
Safety Limits, in general. I would push it a bit here to objects
not too far, enjoy it but I would never change the model,
including not SYNCing. Having pushed here and there and finally
being happy, I would just do a GoTo to a nearby, easily visible
object, push the telescope to get it centered and only if this
doesn't work perfectly, I would use the HC for final centering and
do a Sync. Of course this comes w/o any guarantee, it is NOT a
recommendation, ..., disclaimer, ... It is just cheating ;)
Instead of doing this, I would prefer to use the Identify
function. I've sunk quite some work in it. I'm not sure if it is
used often, but it is pretty powerful. Point to an area, run
Identify and you can watch 10 objects one after the other or do a
new identification. Nice f.i. for the galaxy cluster now in
spring. It could be considered a modern kind of star hopping ;)
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦
Am 06.04.25 um 16:50 schrieb Chip Louie
via groups.io:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
[Edited Message Follows]
Hello,
?
So let's say I've set up the mount correctly re polar
alignment and modeling and the pointing accuracy is good.? I
select a target from the database and it takes me there.?
After observing the target I decide to wander around the
neighborhood of the target slewing here and there, does the
Gemini stay with me and not lose modeling/pointing accuracy
if I return to the database for a new target?? Will it know
where it is after I slew away from the target?
?
Thanks in advance.
Yes.? But you must only use the hand controller to move the
scope around the neighborhood.? Otherwise Gemini will get lost
as it has no way feedback from the servomotor encoders to know
where you moved the scope.??
?
In other words the system is closed until you push it
manually which opens the door.?
?
--
Chip Louie
Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
On Sat, Apr 5, 2025 at 03:40 PM, <freeparticle@...> wrote:
Hello,
?
So let's say I've set up the mount correctly re polar alignment and modeling and the pointing accuracy is good.? I select a target from the database and it takes me there.? After observing the target I decide to wander around the neighborhood of the target slewing here and there, does the Gemini stay with me and not lose modeling/pointing accuracy if I return to the database for a new target?? Will it know where it is after I slew away from the target?
?
Thanks in advance.
Yes.? But you must only use the hand controller to move the scope around the neighborhood.? Otherwise Gemini will get lost as it has no way t get feedback from the servomotor encoders to know where you moved the scope.??
?
In other words the system is closed until you push it manually which opens the door.?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
Of course.? It wouldn't be much of a computerized mount if it
didn't!? Just don't move it by pushing it manually without using
the motors.
On 2025-04-05 18:40, freeparticle via
groups.io wrote:
Hello,
?
So let's say I've set up the mount correctly re polar
alignment and modeling and the pointing accuracy is good.? I
select a target from the database and it takes me there.? After
observing the target I decide to wander around the neighborhood
of the target slewing here and there, does the Gemini stay with
me and not lose modeling/pointing accuracy if I return to the
database for a new target?? Will it know where it is after I
slew away from the target?
?
Thanks in advance.
--
Michael A. Covington, Ph.D.
Consultant, Covington Innovations, Athens, Georgia, USA
|
Re: G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
Hi ?,
?
As long as you¡¯re using Gemini HC or your PC to move the mount, Gemini will know exactly where you are.
?
If you start pushing the mount against the clutches, then Gemini will lose track of your position. If that happens, you just need to go to a bright star, and do a Sync. The modeling and pointing will be fully restored after that.
On Sat, Apr 5, 2025 at 06:40 PM, <freeparticle@...> wrote:
Hello,
?
So let's say I've set up the mount correctly re polar alignment and modeling and the pointing accuracy is good.? I select a target from the database and it takes me there.? After observing the target I decide to wander around the neighborhood of the target slewing here and there, does the Gemini stay with me and not lose modeling/pointing accuracy if I return to the database for a new target?? Will it know where it is after I slew away from the target?
?
Thanks in advance.
|
G-11 and slewing thru a target's "neighborhood" (visual)
Hello,
?
So let's say I've set up the mount correctly re polar alignment and modeling and the pointing accuracy is good.? I select a target from the database and it takes me there.? After observing the target I decide to wander around the neighborhood of the target slewing here and there, does the Gemini stay with me and not lose modeling/pointing accuracy if I return to the database for a new target?? Will it know where it is after I slew away from the target?
?
Thanks in advance.
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
Thanks Guys for all the help. I successfully got my HC configured today, and I'll install the hardware this weekend. If skies clear I'll set limits and Home/Park positions "Using the HC". Like in Brian's vid my Home/park position is not at CWD due to the roof of the observatory. Can't have the roof bang the scope when closing up. When I have questions again, which I'm sure I will, I'll be back.
?
Kevin
?
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 09:11 AM, <fishonkevin@...> wrote:
Paul, I don't think in UTC either. So I'll use my regular time/-4 offset. In the Fall I'll have to go into the handset and change it back to -5 via the cold start routine. No problem.? I have another question. Brian's vids about setting my Park position and safety limits are easy to follow. But I'm wondering if I need to slew/move the mount with the hand controller so that Gemini can read the motors/encoders for the positions. Will the motors/clutches disengage to allow push-to these positions and still read where they are set at? I'm coming from using my G-11 w DSC' and Sky Commander and push-to was always faster than my Observing Buddies mounts with Go-To.
?
When using the Gemini 2 in the usual GOTO mode once you are polar aligned and have shot a couple of stars for the model you can only use the hand controller to move the scope.? If you push the scope the Gemini 2 will lose your scope's position.? IME it is best to just use the DSC or use the Gemini and stick to that mode until you are willing to do another 2-3 star alignment.?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 12:11 PM, <fishonkevin@...> wrote:
Paul, I don't think in UTC either. So I'll use my regular time/-4 offset. In the Fall I'll have to go into the handset and change it back to -5 via the cold start routine. No problem.? I have another question. Brian's vids about setting my Park position and safety limits are easy to follow. But I'm wondering if I need to slew/move the mount with the hand controller so that Gemini can read the motors/encoders for the positions. Will the motors/clutches disengage to allow push-to these positions and still read where they are set at? I'm coming from using my G-11 w DSC' and Sky Commander and push-to was always faster than my Observing Buddies mounts with Go-To.
?
Kevin, you'll need to use the HC or PC software to move your mount to the desired safety limit position and then set it there. If you use push-to (loosening the clutches), Gemini will not be aware of the new position since the encoders are in the servo motors and not on mount axis. For Gemini to be aware of the new position, the movement must occur through the motors.
?
You can use the HC or your PC to set the desired safety limit by entering number of degrees from CWD position, directly. In this case, you don't need to move the mount there at all, but just be sure that's the correct angular distance, or you might risk your precious hardware.
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
My Gemini and other things are set to UTC, which I ignore.
I have my other timekeeping set to 24-hour time and can readily compute that in my head.
But UTC eliminates DST bother. Whether we like it or not, UTC just plods along with the stars.
?
DST was some basterdization of daylight to give Farmers extra daylight.
I've done a little farmin and worked at farmin and ranchin. Clocks don't matter there.
You work when the work needs done.
?
Congress still takes their Planting and Harvesting vacations.
--
Sonny Edmonds
GM811G HD
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
Paul, I don't think in UTC either. So I'll use my regular time/-4 offset. In the Fall I'll have to go into the handset and change it back to -5 via the cold start routine. No problem.? I have another question. Brian's vids about setting my Park position and safety limits are easy to follow. But I'm wondering if I need to slew/move the mount with the hand controller so that Gemini can read the motors/encoders for the positions. Will the motors/clutches disengage to allow push-to these positions and still read where they are set at? I'm coming from using my G-11 w DSC' and Sky Commander and push-to was always faster than my Observing Buddies mounts with Go-To.
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
Paul,
David is privileged somehow, in Merry Old England near the prime
meridian ;)
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦
Am 02.04.25 um 15:32 schrieb Paul
Kanevsky:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 09:22 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
Stick with
UTC and set the clock accordingly (using an offset of
0).? Never need to change it again.
?
Personally, I
never liked that recommendation. I like to see my local date
and time displayed on Gemini. Living many hours away from
UTC, I don't think in UTC time, and rarely know what it is
without doing some computations in my head... which requires
me to remember the offset, anyway ;)?
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 09:22 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
Stick with UTC and set the clock accordingly (using an offset of 0).? Never need to change it again.
?
Personally, I never liked that recommendation. I like to see my local date and time displayed on Gemini. Living many hours away from UTC, I don't think in UTC time, and rarely know what it is without doing some computations in my head... which requires me to remember the offset, anyway ;)?
|
Re: First Time Set-up and Use
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 09:03 AM, <fishonkevin@...> wrote:
Hi Folks,
My name is Kevin, and this is my first time posting to the Group. I took delivery of the Retro-fit kit for my G-ll on Monday and am planning on doing the basic set-up before installation onto my mount. I've been watching all the tutorials on Gemini that Brian has posted to You-tube, and am slowly wrapping my head around it. My goal is for visual at this time, but I'll be doing some imaging later. I've found through watching the vids that it is pretty straight forward with Lat/Lon, but when entering the time I have a question about Daylight Savings Time(pita). I am in the EST zone so my off set is -5, but we are in DST so the offset is -4, right? Also, when in the Fall, do I have to do a Cold Start and change the offset back to -5 again? Basically, I'm just asking for clarification that my thinking about the offset is correct and setting it for DST is correct? Everytime the time changes I will have to change the offset.
BTW, any tips you might have for installing the hardware, or first time start-up and use are appreciated.
?
Thanks, Kevin
Hi Kevin, welcome to the group!
?
You are right, the current EDT offset is -4, and that's what you'd want to set in Gemini. This will change to -5 in the Fall. Note that if you are not using your PC to set the Gemini time, it's really not that important what offset you use, other than for the display of the current civil date/time. Pointing accuracy will not be affected as long as the UTC time is correct. And if you are setting Gemini time from your PC using ASCOM, starting with Gemini L6 the time zone offset has also become unimportant -- the ASCOM driver now always sets Gemini time using UTC timezone, so this not in any way affected by what offset you enter in Gemini.
?
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Paul Kanevsky
Rainer
Chip Louie
Sonny Edmonds