Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option
I have a substantial 10¡± Newt on my G11G and the 12¡± pier extension allows me to image up to 55 minutes past the meridian. That being said, an 8¡± would have worked as well. I also have the RA extension and tucked motors.?
if you are considering a pier extension, slew your 130 vertical and measure how far below the top of the legs the lowest part of your imaging train hangs down. Then round up to the next pier extension length. That should get you to clear the legs.?
if you are hitting the motor prior to hitting the pier then perhaps the tucked motor upgrade would be worth it.?
I imagine you could save money by just tucking one motor? If it hits the DEC motor but not the RA motor maybe you could just tuck the DEC?
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RA extension probably won¡¯t do much to increase your motor clearance because the DEC motor moves outward with the DEC axis. It might give you a little more room from the RA motor though.?
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G11 mount upgrade. Best option
Hello,
I am not sure if this is the correct forum but I will ask anyway.? I have a G11, non-tucked in motors, Gemini 2 recently upgraded.? When I use the G11 with a short refractor I can set the limits with a fairly broad range, however when I put the TS Optics 130 on the mount, the limits have to be narrowed considerably to avoid a crash into the tripod.? Also, with either scope, the saddle can be quite close to the motors.? I could get the motors tucked in, which adds up in cost pretty fast, I could buy RA extensions to move the scope away from the motors and/or I could buy a pier extension to help clear the tripod.? Could someone please provide advice as to what may be the best first option???
I sure do appreciate the help.
Thank you,
Tom
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 12:47 PM, <kevinwalsh324@...> wrote:
I got my new G11 this past Spring and I went through the various YT videos.?
I used this video done by Scott to build a model and set the polar alignment. (I can only see Polaris seasonally through trees so I didn¡¯t bother getting the polar scope).
Polar Align Correction:
?
This got the PA close, but not great, so eventually I used the polar align drift method in PHD2, which was surprisingly easy and effective, even with my severely restricted sky. This got the PA quite close. So now I just do a ¡®synchronize¡¯ on a bright star at the start of the night, and my gotos are usually very good.
I also use plate solving using ASTAP with the BYE/BYN camera control software I use, and Carts du Ciel, to center the object when the gotos are not perfect.
This combination works for me.
?
Good luck, and clear skies.
Kevin
?
Sorry for going sideways on this.?
?
I have the same problem, no reliable Polaris access due to the trees.? Winter visual PA using the polar scope works well because there are no leaves!? But the rest of the year is blocked as the trees leaf in.? With the ASIAIR All-Sky PA works perfectly.? There are other automated methods but I have found that by doing the usual leveling of the Losmandy mount using the base bubble levels and using a smartphone with a free planetarium app called SkyEye I can get pretty good results for visual work.?
?
This is what I have done in the past, I turn on the EQ grid lines in the SkyEye app then using the polar scope eyepiece or polar scope hole metal cap for a flat reference surface I hold the phone on it flat and adjust the AZ and elevation to center Polaris on the screen to get the scope pointed surprisingly well at Polaris.? Next I do a GOTO to an obvious Bright Star then use the mount AZ and elevation knobs to center the star.? I usually pick a bright star or two along the equator to the East repeating the same GOTO routine and manually adjusting.? Then I GOTO another bright star to the West and do the same thing.? Then do a GOTO to the first bright star and see where you are.? Use a moderate magnification and then using the HC controls center the star and do a SYNC.?
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From here on you should have decent GOTOs though you will want to then proceed with the PA correction routine if not close enough but I have never had to use that routine.? ?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
Chip
That was Pauls reply. The mac is the same for all mounts and you have to go into the web server and alter one of the two mount mac addresses. I found I could get around Gemini telescope not responding after hooking up two mounts via udp by using HTTP instead. Now I know what went wrong. My computer couldn't distinguish between two identical twins!!!
Chuck
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 09:08:50 AM PST, Chip Louie <chiplouie@...> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 04:41 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
Chip
According to paul, if you have two losmandy mounts on the same network , you can get the same mac address. You have to go into the web server and manually change one of the two mac addresses. I had a kind of fuzzy idea of how a mac address is assigned and thought each mount would be assigned a unique mac address. It appears they aren't unique and hence the problem with Gemini telescope.
Chuck
? Hi Chuck, ? The Gemini 2 controllers all come from the factory with the same MAC address by default.? It's easy to change the MAC address and this should allow both to work without mistaking one Gemini 2 for the other.? Gemini.net can handle more than one Gemini 2 on the same network but AFAIK you still need different MAC addresses even using UDP protocol because both UPD and TCP protocols use IP which is dependent on their MAC address.? It's been a long time since I did networking but I think this is the way it works.? ? --
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM, Chip Louie wrote:
The Gemini 2 controllers all come from the factory with the same MAC address by default.? It's easy to change the MAC address and this should allow both to work without mistaking one Gemini 2 for the other.?
That's exactly right. All Gemini ship with the same MAC address. To use them on the same network, at least one of the two must be changed manually.
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Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
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Oh, I forgot.to mention that I have had three Gemini 2 controllers on my home LAN and the all worked fine but all had different IP and MAC addresses.? I never tested operating more than 2 at once as one of the Gemini-2 was always controlled by an ASIAIR talking to a PC using the BlueStacks emulator.??
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 04:41 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
Chip
According to paul, if you have two losmandy mounts on the same network , you can get the same mac address. You have to go into the web server and manually change one of the two mac addresses. I had a kind of fuzzy idea of how a mac address is assigned and thought each mount would be assigned a unique mac address. It appears they aren't unique and hence the problem with Gemini telescope.
Chuck
?
Hi Chuck,
?
The Gemini 2 controllers all come from the factory with the same MAC address by default.? It's easy to change the MAC address and this should allow both to work without mistaking one Gemini 2 for the other.? Gemini.net can handle more than one Gemini 2 on the same network but AFAIK you still need different MAC addresses even using UDP protocol because both UPD and TCP protocols use IP which is dependent on their MAC address.? It's been a long time since I did networking but I think this is the way it works.?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
Chip
According to paul, if you have two losmandy mounts on the same network , you can get the same mac address. You have to go into the web server and manually change one of the two mac addresses. I had a kind of fuzzy idea of how a mac address is assigned and thought each mount would be assigned a unique mac address. It appears they aren't unique and hence the problem with Gemini telescope.
Chuck On Friday, November 1, 2024 at 10:27:24 AM PDT, Chip Louie <chiplouie@...> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 02:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
? The networking term UDP stands for User Datagram Protocol.? Like many computer terms it is an arcane term made up by dudes in garages wearing pointy hats.? AFAIK UDP packets are verified using checksums but the handshake protocol does not wait for receipts from the receiving device(s).? Because of this it is a faster protocol due to the much lower network overhead but UDP can lose packets if the receiver is not ready to accept data.? IME it is very reliable in use with Gemini controllers as Gemini Ethernet is relatively slow by modern standards.? If you are experiencing dropped packets or data loss once the Gemini is talking to the computer this is not likely the fault of the use of UDP protocol but some other layer in your network.? ? ? --
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: If the Park mode is set a certain way¡.
Thanks Paul, I will try that and report back!
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Re: If the Park mode is set a certain way¡.
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 06:59 PM, Paul Romero wrote:
Hi there,
?
I have the Gemini 2 with L6. The ASCOM driver, CPU, and HC firmware are the latest betas. ?One thing I really like about the park mode that requires a go-to command to park the mount is that on ¡°power on¡±, the mount just stays put in the CWD or Home position, and I don¡¯t find it later at the Limits position, which prevents me from getting around it in my cramped observatory.
?
The consistent repeatable problem I encounter is that whenever my acquisition software SGP performs a Meridian Flip, the mount just parks itself at the initial flip position in RA ( on west side of mount, pointing east). No other movement occurs, as SGP fails and shuts down the sequence.
?
This never happens in the other park mode, any command. It successfully performs meridian flips.
?
Please help! Do you think this is a mount issue or that SGP does not give it the proper command, or neither?
?
Clear Skies,
?
Paul
Hi Paul, I'm just guessing, but perhaps SGP parks the mount while waiting for the target to cross the meridian, but when it does, it can't wake up the mount by doing a meridian flip command. See if enabling the Flip using Goto setting in Gemini.NET ASCOM driver will help get the mount out of park:
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On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 06:33 PM, <tony.kiefer@...> wrote:
I think you are missing my point. I always do a cold start and always check date and time and time zone but none of this would cause the issue I have. I stated in the original issue that I could goto a star, align that star to the model and tell it to goto that same star and the mount would move off the star. The mount is acting as if the model was not updated correctly. Date and time would not matter in that case but they were set correctly. That is why I was wanting to know if the model is stored on the sd card. I also cleared the model several times and checked that it was cleared by reading the values and all were at 0 when cleared.
I understand, Tony, but I am not there to observe in person what you're doing and what the result is, so I have to ask questions if anything is not clear to me. And I usually ask them starting from the common, simplest possible explanations, progressing to the more complex.
?
As I said, even if the model is stored on the SD (and it can be written there by you pressing Store Model button), Cold start and reset model options wipe it out. I still see no reason to suspect the SD card.
?
Your observation that adding a new star to the model and then going to it doesn't center it is not that unusual. A pointing model is a non-linear equation that is updated with each star you add to it. The result of the equation can produce an offset from the latest star, while hopefully reducing the error when finding other stars around the sky.? Synchronize is different, in that it doesn't adjust the model, but instead rotates it to make sure the current star coordinates are exactly at the center.
?
Which brings me to the next suggested test. As I wrote before, try going to a bright star, center it, do a Synchronize, then tell the mount to go back to the same star. Is it still centered? If not, how far off?
Next, re-center and re-Sync the star (if not at the center), then tell the mount to park at CWD, then go back to the same star. Is it still centered? If not, how far off is it?
?
Regards,
?
? ?-Paul
?
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If the Park mode is set a certain way¡.
Hi there,
?
I have the Gemini 2 with L6. The ASCOM driver, CPU, and HC firmware are the latest betas. ?One thing I really like about the park mode that requires a go-to command to park the mount is that on ¡°power on¡±, the mount just stays put in the CWD or Home position, and I don¡¯t find it later at the Limits position, which prevents me from getting around it in my cramped observatory.
?
The consistent repeatable problem I encounter is that whenever my acquisition software SGP performs a Meridian Flip, the mount just parks itself at the initial flip position in RA ( on west side of mount, pointing east). No other movement occurs, as SGP fails and shuts down the sequence.
?
This never happens in the other park mode, any command. It successfully performs meridian flips.
?
Please help! Do you think this is a mount issue or that SGP does not give it the proper command, or neither?
?
Clear Skies,
?
Paul
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Thanks for the reply but all was set correctly. This is not a setup problem.?
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Paul,
?
I think you are missing my point. I always do a cold start and always check date and time and time zone but none of this would cause the issue I have. I stated in the original issue that I could goto a star, align that star to the model and tell it to goto that same star and the mount would move off the star. The mount is acting as if the model was not updated correctly. Date and time would not matter in that case but they were set correctly. That is why I was wanting to know if the model is stored on the sd card. I also cleared the model several times and checked that it was cleared by reading the values and all were at 0 when cleared.
?
Tony
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On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 01:32 PM, <tony.kiefer@...> wrote:
Paul,
?
Thanks for the reply. I can try your suggestion using Synchronize but I think something else is going on here. Also, whenever I use this mount I use GPS for location and time and adjust for the time zone difference. The procedure I have been using for modeling, goto star, center star, select align, then select alignment, has always worked for me. Something has changed for it to stop working. Do you know if the modeling parameters are stored on the sd card. I removed the card and opened its contents on my computer, so the card is not corrupt. I cleaned the contacts on the card and the board and reseated the sd card. I haven't tried using the mount since then and now the cloudy nights are here.
?
Tony
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Tony, the change from DST seems too much of a coincidence, especially since you say everything was working fine previously, and something had to change. Double-check that your time zone is set correctly for standard time (timezone is not set by the GPS).
?
To avoid loading a previous model from the SD card (assuming one was saved using "Store Model" button previously) is to start using Cold Start in CWD position, and then adjust settings as needed, and then build a new model. You can also use Reset Model button to clear any existing model:
?
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Tony,
It ¡°sounds¡± like you may not have adjusted the correct time on Gemini 2. As Daylight Savings ended yesterday, it would be smart to check your time and correct Gemini 2 if needed. The directions for doing this are in??and to get the correct time offset for your location click???.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 4, 2024, at 10:32?AM, tony.kiefer@... wrote:
Paul,
?
Thanks for the reply. I can try your suggestion using Synchronize but I think something else is going on here. Also, whenever I use this mount I use GPS for location and time and adjust for the time zone difference. The procedure I have been using for modeling, goto star, center star, select align, then select alignment, has always worked for me. Something has changed for it to stop working. Do you know if the modeling parameters are stored on the sd card. I removed the card and opened its contents on my computer, so the card is not corrupt. I cleaned the contacts on the card and the board and reseated the sd card. I haven't tried using the mount since then and now the cloudy nights are here.
?
Tony
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Paul,
?
Thanks for the reply. I can try your suggestion using Synchronize but I think something else is going on here. Also, whenever I use this mount I use GPS for location and time and adjust for the time zone difference. The procedure I have been using for modeling, goto star, center star, select align, then select alignment, has always worked for me. Something has changed for it to stop working. Do you know if the modeling parameters are stored on the sd card. I removed the card and opened its contents on my computer, so the card is not corrupt. I cleaned the contacts on the card and the board and reseated the sd card. I haven't tried using the mount since then and now the cloudy nights are here.
?
Tony
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On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 06:15 PM, <tony.kiefer@...> wrote:
Last night, at one of our astronomy clubs out reach programs, I couldn't get the modeling program to work on my G11 mount Gemini 2. I tried using align and the model program that shows at cold startup. When using the align method, I would slew to a star, center the star and then press align, alignment like I usually do. Then go to the next star and repeat the process. The model was showing changes to the model but going back to the same stars they were not aligned. I even tried checking the alignment by going to the star, aligning the star and telling the mount to go to the same star and the mount would move off the star which it should not do. The controller would display that I aligned the star but if it did it should not move. Battery was replaced recently and not getting a low voltage warning on hand control. Could the micro sd card cause this problem? I have been using this mount for 15 years or more so I know how to model. It worked fine last week.
Hi Tony,
?
Can you try using Synchronize on a star, and then doing a goto to the same star? This should always keep the star centered, unless there are some precession settings that are getting in the way. Also double-check that your timezone is adjusted for the 1 hour difference between daylight savings and standard time (changed from DST to ST in the US very early yesterday).
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
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Last night, at one of our astronomy clubs out reach programs, I couldn't get the modeling program to work on my G11 mount Gemini 2. I tried using align and the model program that shows at cold startup. When using the align method, I would slew to a star, center the star and then press align, alignment like I usually do. Then go to the next star and repeat the process. The model was showing changes to the model but going back to the same stars they were not aligned. I even tried checking the alignment by going to the star, aligning the star and telling the mount to go to the same star and the mount would move off the star which it should not do. The controller would display that I aligned the star but if it did it should not move. Battery was replaced recently and not getting a low voltage warning on hand control. Could the micro sd card cause this problem? I have been using this mount for 15 years or more so I know how to model. It worked fine last week.
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
I got my new G11 this past Spring and I went through the various YT videos.?
I used this video done by Scott to build a model and set the polar alignment. (I can only see Polaris seasonally through trees so I didn¡¯t bother getting the polar scope).
Polar Align Correction:
?
This got the PA close, but not great, so eventually I used the polar align drift method in PHD2, which was surprisingly easy and effective, even with my severely restricted sky. This got the PA quite close. So now I just do a ¡®synchronize¡¯ on a bright star at the start of the night, and my gotos are usually very good.
I also use plate solving using ASTAP with the BYE/BYN camera control software I use, and Carts du Ciel, to center the object when the gotos are not perfect.
This combination works for me.
?
Good luck, and clear skies.
Kevin
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Ryan Noonan
Chip Louie
Paul Kanevsky
