On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 01:32 PM, <tony.kiefer@...> wrote:
Paul,
?
Thanks for the reply. I can try your suggestion using Synchronize but I think something else is going on here. Also, whenever I use this mount I use GPS for location and time and adjust for the time zone difference. The procedure I have been using for modeling, goto star, center star, select align, then select alignment, has always worked for me. Something has changed for it to stop working. Do you know if the modeling parameters are stored on the sd card. I removed the card and opened its contents on my computer, so the card is not corrupt. I cleaned the contacts on the card and the board and reseated the sd card. I haven't tried using the mount since then and now the cloudy nights are here.
?
Tony
?
Tony, the change from DST seems too much of a coincidence, especially since you say everything was working fine previously, and something had to change. Double-check that your time zone is set correctly for standard time (timezone is not set by the GPS).
?
To avoid loading a previous model from the SD card (assuming one was saved using "Store Model" button previously) is to start using Cold Start in CWD position, and then adjust settings as needed, and then build a new model. You can also use Reset Model button to clear any existing model:
?
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Tony,
It ¡°sounds¡± like you may not have adjusted the correct time on Gemini 2. As Daylight Savings ended yesterday, it would be smart to check your time and correct Gemini 2 if needed. The directions for doing this are in??and to get the correct time offset for your location click???.
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On Nov 4, 2024, at 10:32?AM, tony.kiefer@... wrote:
Paul,
?
Thanks for the reply. I can try your suggestion using Synchronize but I think something else is going on here. Also, whenever I use this mount I use GPS for location and time and adjust for the time zone difference. The procedure I have been using for modeling, goto star, center star, select align, then select alignment, has always worked for me. Something has changed for it to stop working. Do you know if the modeling parameters are stored on the sd card. I removed the card and opened its contents on my computer, so the card is not corrupt. I cleaned the contacts on the card and the board and reseated the sd card. I haven't tried using the mount since then and now the cloudy nights are here.
?
Tony
|
Paul,
?
Thanks for the reply. I can try your suggestion using Synchronize but I think something else is going on here. Also, whenever I use this mount I use GPS for location and time and adjust for the time zone difference. The procedure I have been using for modeling, goto star, center star, select align, then select alignment, has always worked for me. Something has changed for it to stop working. Do you know if the modeling parameters are stored on the sd card. I removed the card and opened its contents on my computer, so the card is not corrupt. I cleaned the contacts on the card and the board and reseated the sd card. I haven't tried using the mount since then and now the cloudy nights are here.
?
Tony
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On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 06:15 PM, <tony.kiefer@...> wrote:
Last night, at one of our astronomy clubs out reach programs, I couldn't get the modeling program to work on my G11 mount Gemini 2. I tried using align and the model program that shows at cold startup. When using the align method, I would slew to a star, center the star and then press align, alignment like I usually do. Then go to the next star and repeat the process. The model was showing changes to the model but going back to the same stars they were not aligned. I even tried checking the alignment by going to the star, aligning the star and telling the mount to go to the same star and the mount would move off the star which it should not do. The controller would display that I aligned the star but if it did it should not move. Battery was replaced recently and not getting a low voltage warning on hand control. Could the micro sd card cause this problem? I have been using this mount for 15 years or more so I know how to model. It worked fine last week.
Hi Tony,
?
Can you try using Synchronize on a star, and then doing a goto to the same star? This should always keep the star centered, unless there are some precession settings that are getting in the way. Also double-check that your timezone is adjusted for the 1 hour difference between daylight savings and standard time (changed from DST to ST in the US very early yesterday).
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
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Last night, at one of our astronomy clubs out reach programs, I couldn't get the modeling program to work on my G11 mount Gemini 2. I tried using align and the model program that shows at cold startup. When using the align method, I would slew to a star, center the star and then press align, alignment like I usually do. Then go to the next star and repeat the process. The model was showing changes to the model but going back to the same stars they were not aligned. I even tried checking the alignment by going to the star, aligning the star and telling the mount to go to the same star and the mount would move off the star which it should not do. The controller would display that I aligned the star but if it did it should not move. Battery was replaced recently and not getting a low voltage warning on hand control. Could the micro sd card cause this problem? I have been using this mount for 15 years or more so I know how to model. It worked fine last week.
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
I got my new G11 this past Spring and I went through the various YT videos.?
I used this video done by Scott to build a model and set the polar alignment. (I can only see Polaris seasonally through trees so I didn¡¯t bother getting the polar scope).
Polar Align Correction:
?
This got the PA close, but not great, so eventually I used the polar align drift method in PHD2, which was surprisingly easy and effective, even with my severely restricted sky. This got the PA quite close. So now I just do a ¡®synchronize¡¯ on a bright star at the start of the night, and my gotos are usually very good.
I also use plate solving using ASTAP with the BYE/BYN camera control software I use, and Carts du Ciel, to center the object when the gotos are not perfect.
This combination works for me.
?
Good luck, and clear skies.
Kevin
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 08:30 AM, Dnorton wrote:
I have the latest firmware and at Level 6. I do a cold start. I tried doing a warm start once after creating a model from a previous session but that was a disaster. So last night I started with a cold start and started from scratch. After completing (but I never got to the ¡°save¡± portion of the model building) the alignment I did a catalog search for M13 and it was more than a FOV off. That¡¯s not going to help when hunting down faint PN in a C11.?
Doug?
?
P.S. I appreciate the help. I was so frustrated last night when I came home. 1980 technology trumping 2024 technology doesn¡¯t seem right.
?
?
How did you not get to save the model?? AFAIK the guided model building routine just keeps going as long as you keep picking stars to "align" on.? LOL, the Gemini 2 is hardly 2024 technology, at it's core it's over 25 years old from the late 1990s as I recall.? ?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
After building a model, take a screenshot of the model parameters screen on the HC and post here:
?
On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 11:30 AM, Dnorton wrote:
I have the latest firmware and at Level 6. I do a cold start. I tried doing a warm start once after creating a model from a previous session but that was a disaster. So last night I started with a cold start and started from scratch. After completing (but I never got to the ¡°save¡± portion of the model building) the alignment I did a catalog search for M13 and it was more than a FOV off. That¡¯s not going to help when hunting down faint PN in a C11.?
Doug?
?
P.S. I appreciate the help. I was so frustrated last night when I came home. 1980 technology trumping 2024 technology doesn¡¯t seem right.
?
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
I have the latest firmware and at Level 6. I do a cold start. I tried doing a warm start once after creating a model from a previous session but that was a disaster. So last night I started with a cold start and started from scratch. After completing (but I never got to the ¡°save¡± portion of the model building) the alignment I did a catalog search for M13 and it was more than a FOV off. That¡¯s not going to help when hunting down faint PN in a C11.?
Doug?
?
P.S. I appreciate the help. I was so frustrated last night when I came home. 1980 technology trumping 2024 technology doesn¡¯t seem right.
?
|
Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
?
Thanks for the details. The process seems correct.?
A few more questions:
1. do you start with a Cold start, in CWD position? That¡¯s needed to clear out previous model and settings.
?
2. what mount and Gemini firmware version are you using?
?
3. ?after 3 + 1 stars alignment, how far off are the Goto to another bright star?
?
Regards,
?
? ?-Paul
?
On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 08:26 AM, Dnorton wrote:
On the hand controller: I set the time to Universal. Polar align through the polar scope (I know I can do that accurately because whenever I do the PA through ASIair I am within 15'). The Site is set down to the foot. Then I transcribed this list from the YouTube video (below). I follow this and it just keeps going and I never get to the "Save" part. For contrast, I have an older GM8 with encoders. I recently bought a vintage Celestron Advanced Astro Master. I can align on three stars and every object I find in the catalog is dead center. I know the concepts of alignment. Maybe I just don't understand what "building a model" is other than a plastic model airplane.?
?
Four star alignment
Three stars West. One East.
?
Menu
Functions
Modeling
West
?
Goto (1st Star)
Center target
Model
Align
Back
?
Goto (2nd Star)
Center
Model
Align
Back
?
Goto (3rd Star)
Center target
Model
Align
Back
?
East (4th Star)
Goto
Center target
Model
Align
Back
Menu
Align
More
Model
Save
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
On the hand controller: I set the time to Universal. Polar align through the polar scope (I know I can do that accurately because whenever I do the PA through ASIair I am within 15'). The Site is set down to the foot. Then I transcribed this list from the YouTube video (below). I follow this and it just keeps going and I never get to the "Save" part. For contrast, I have an older GM8 with encoders. I recently bought a vintage Celestron Advanced Astro Master. I can align on three stars and every object I find in the catalog is dead center. I know the concepts of alignment. Maybe I just don't understand what "building a model" is other than a plastic model airplane.?
?
Four star alignment
Three stars West. One East.
?
Menu
Functions
Modeling
West
?
Goto (1st Star)
Center target
Model
Align
Back
?
Goto (2nd Star)
Center
Model
Align
Back
?
Goto (3rd Star)
Center target
Model
Align
Back
?
East (4th Star)
Goto
Center target
Model
Align
Back
Menu
Align
More
Model
Save
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
DNorton,
If you are polar aligned, it is relatively simple, you just select a visible star from the Hand Control catalogue, command the mount to slew to the object, centre it in the eyepiece and then select synchronise.
If you are not so accurately aligned then you do the same as above, but then do one or two further stars spread around the sky and select align instead of synchronise.
You need to make sure that everything is configured correctly before doing anything, date, time, location, type of mount etc.
I rarely do the above because I image and the INDI software takes care of it all.
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What a convoluted way to align through the hand controller. Two clear nights wasted because it won¡¯t ¡°model¡±. I¡¯ve followed the YouTube videos and whatever else I can find on how to align. It just goes on and on and on star after star. Does it ever actually finish ¡°modeling¡±? I try to go to a catalog object, an easy one like M13 and it¡¯s off.?
ASIair has no problem when I do astrophotography. It can go all night. But when I want to observe and just poke around the sky¡?
?
I have the polar scope. I know how to use that. I don¡¯t get it. I just don¡¯t.?
--
Paul
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Re: Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
On Sat, Nov 2, 2024 at 09:21 PM, Dnorton wrote:
What a convoluted way to align through the hand controller. Two clear nights wasted because it won¡¯t ¡°model¡±. I¡¯ve followed the YouTube videos and whatever else I can find on how to align. It just goes on and on and on star after star. Does it ever actually finish ¡°modeling¡±? I try to go to a catalog object, an easy one like M13 and it¡¯s off.?
ASIair has no problem when I do astrophotography. It can go all night. But when I want to observe and just poke around the sky¡?
?
I have the polar scope. I know how to use that. I don¡¯t get it. I just don¡¯t.?
?
It would help if you could describe how you are building the model. Step by step. Many others are able to build a pointing model that works for them, so there's likely something you're not doing right or something that isn't configured correctly. It's hard to guess what that might be without additional details.
?
Generally 3-4 stars are sufficient to get a decent model on one side, plus add one more star on the other. Add more stars if you want better precision. Here are some pages that may help:
?
?
?
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Alignment (or is it ¡°modeling¡±)
What a convoluted way to align through the hand controller. Two clear nights wasted because it won¡¯t ¡°model¡±. I¡¯ve followed the YouTube videos and whatever else I can find on how to align. It just goes on and on and on star after star. Does it ever actually finish ¡°modeling¡±? I try to go to a catalog object, an easy one like M13 and it¡¯s off.?
ASIair has no problem when I do astrophotography. It can go all night. But when I want to observe and just poke around the sky¡?
?
I have the polar scope. I know how to use that. I don¡¯t get it. I just don¡¯t.?
|
Glad? to help, Luca!
--
Sonny Edmonds
GM811G HD
|
Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 02:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.?
?
Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts??
?
Chuck
?
The networking term UDP stands for User Datagram Protocol.? Like many computer terms it is an arcane term made up by dudes in garages wearing pointy hats.? AFAIK UDP packets are verified using checksums but the handshake protocol does not wait for receipts from the receiving device(s).? Because of this it is a faster protocol due to the much lower network overhead but UDP can lose packets if the receiver is not ready to accept data.? IME it is very reliable in use with Gemini controllers as Gemini Ethernet is relatively slow by modern standards.? If you are experiencing dropped packets or data loss once the Gemini is talking to the computer this is not likely the fault of the use of UDP protocol but some other layer in your network.? ?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Thank you so much!
?
Luca
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Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
Thanks Paul. If I run into this problem again, I'll look up the mac addresses and see if that's the problem. At least I'll know where i can modify the address.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:50:35 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
? The MAC address should be different for two devices on the same network. UDP relies on it to deliver datagrams. Heres how to change the MAC address: ? ? Regards, ? ? -Paul
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 06:35 PM, crocco1250 wrote: Paul
The 2005 has a mele minicomputer from China with both a Wi-Fi and LAN connection. It could be they are not properly resolving the IP address with Gemini udp with a Wi-Fi and LAN address from my router. I'm not sure if this is a hardware issue (Mele) or udp problem. I'm just putting it out there I had this issue. It can be resolved via HTTP. I'm not sure why!!!
Chuck On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:15:12 PM PDT, crocco1250 via groups.io <crocco1250@...> wrote: ? ? Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote: ? ? Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast. ? Regards, ? ? -Paul ? On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
|
Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
?
The MAC address should be different for two devices on the same network. UDP relies on it to deliver datagrams. Heres how to change the MAC address:
?
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 06:35 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
Paul
The 2005 has a mele minicomputer from China with both a Wi-Fi and LAN connection. It could be they are not properly resolving the IP address with Gemini udp with a Wi-Fi and LAN address from my router. I'm not sure if this is a hardware issue (Mele) or udp problem. I'm just putting it out there I had this issue. It can be resolved via HTTP. I'm not sure why!!!
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:15:12 PM PDT, crocco1250 via groups.io <crocco1250@...> wrote:
?
?
Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
?
?
Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast.
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.?
?
Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts??
?
Chuck
|
Re: Weird Gemini telescope behavior
Paul
The 2005 has a mele minicomputer from China with both a Wi-Fi and LAN connection. It could be they are not properly resolving the IP address with Gemini udp with a Wi-Fi and LAN address from my router. I'm not sure if this is a hardware issue (Mele) or udp problem. I'm just putting it out there I had this issue. It can be resolved via HTTP. I'm not sure why!!!
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:15:12 PM PDT, crocco1250 via groups.io <crocco1250@...> wrote:
Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast. ? Regards, ? ? -Paul ?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
|
Paul Kanevsky
Chip Louie
Dnorton
Sonny Edmonds