Hi All.

I have a G4KLX software based ICOM repeater running fine (IRCddbGateway under CentOS7 and ICOM ID-RP2C Controller) and I want to know if it is possible to install ICOM G3 software AFTER IRCddbGateway software ?

I want to add G3 functionalities to the repeater and manage US-Trust local registration.

Any experience about that ?

Any help welcome !

Best 73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

Sorry – long reply. Hopefully it will help.

Our club had an ICOM repeater that started out running G2, then G3. Then we learned about some repeaters that users could switch between G3 and ircDDBGateway by sending an RF request in UR. It would take a minute or so to shut down the one gateway and start the other.

We discovered nearly all our users preferred ircDDBGateway, probably because it seamlessly supports linking to REF, XRF, DCS or XLX reflectors.

But we had a few users who had purchased an ICOM radio supporting Terminal mode, and chose not to get one of the many hotspots available, but preferred to use Terminal Mode (with its ability to do only callsign routing and not reflector linking). There were a few situations where ircDDBGateway did not support them but G3 did.

We took the easy route by engaging Adrian VK4TUX to put in this dual-gateway system. We paid him for his time.

Note that Adrian’s installation kept the ICOM G3 registration application running even when G4KLX’s ircDDBGateway was doing gateway duty.

If you don’t need the ability to dynamically switch between gateway programs, though, I would guess YES, you can install G3 on a machine running ircDDBGateway. Their installs going into different folders. You didn’t specify, but I assume you want to continue to run ircDDBGateway as the full time gateway, but want to offer the G3 registration application to your users.

So the main work after the G3 installation would be to permanently shut down the ICOM tasks providing gateway services while leaving the registration page services running.

But I am not sure what you meant by “I want to add G3 functionalities to the repeater.” While the registration app can be run alongside ircDDBGateway, I am not aware of any other G3 functions that can do that. Unless you do what Adrian did, you will have to decide which gateway software will manage networking, routing and linking.

Jim – K6JM
W6CX Digital Voice Admin
Mt Diablo Amateur Radio Club
Concord, CA

Note 1: In 2021 we replaced the ICOM repeater with a pair of Motorola CDM1250 radios and a Pi loaded with the Pi-Star image. We enabled D-STAR, DMR and C4FM/Fusion and it is really working well. We have not had complaints about our repeater no longer supporting those few Terminal Mode use-cases that G3 could do.

Note 2: If all you want to do is keep running the G4KLX gateway but add the G3 registration function, you can do that separately. As you probably know, the REGIST registration page runs on a virtual machine in a data center. Basically the Trust Server Team installed G3 on the VM, then disabled all but the registration page functions.

Note 3: So our club did the same thing after we converted to MultiMode. We had over 2,000 callsigns registered on our G3 system and we did not want to leave the holders of those callsigns stranded. We rented an inexpensive Intel machine in the Cloud, installed G3 on it, disabled all but the registration tasks, and were able to give our users a year to plan their move to another registration database. The Trust Server Team was very helpful in that regard, so our users were not penalized when we made the changes.


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of f5hcc
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 4:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [G3-ircDDBGateway] Is it possible to install ICOM G3 software AFTER IRCddbGateway software ?

Hi All.

I have a G4KLX software based ICOM repeater running fine (IRCddbGateway under CentOS7 and ICOM ID-RP2C Controller) and I want to know if it is possible to install ICOM G3 software AFTER IRCddbGateway software ?

I want to add G3 functionalities to the repeater and manage US-Trust local registration.

Any experience about that ?

Any help welcome !

Best 73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

Hello Jim.

Thank you for your help.

Of course, I'm not sure if users really want to use the Terminal Mode on their ICOM radio, and there are other G3 gateways they can use.

I thought that it was possible to have both gateways (ICOM G3 and IRCddbGateway) running at the same time, using the ICOM G3 gateway for D-Plus traffic and IRCddbGateway for other protocols, but I understand through your answer that it is not possible. That is probably why it is recommanded to "shut down D-Plus in ICOM software".

So, it means that, when a user initiates a connection to a D-Plus reflector (REFxxx or other), the callsign of the repeater doesn't display on the dashboard of the reflector, the displayed callsign is the one embedded in the configuration file of IRCddbGateway.

The only way to display the callsign of the repeater would be to register the callsign of the repeater on US-Trust. I have always been told that it was not useful to register a repeater on US-Trust, but I guess that it was defined at the beginning of D-Star when only ICOM-based repeater were connected (as the repeaters were registered automatically on US-Trust when they were created). I think that I can register the repeater on US-Trust as a "standard user" so the callsign will be displayed on the dashboard of the reflector.

I will go on this way, adding ICOM G3 package on the repeater (the repeater is already running with IRCddbGateway and working fine on my test bench).

Thanks again for your help.

Best 73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

Fabrice,

I agree there has been less usage of Terminal Mode, at least outside of Japan, probably because it requires use of Callsign Routing. And many hams using D-Star have not taken the time to learn how to capture the callsign of the other station, while at the same time, many D-Star hams really like DPlus and the other reflector protocols which do not require callsign capturing.

Similar names, different programs
----------------------------------------------
There is some confusion, though, regarding two D-Star software applications that have similar names but very different functions (ircDDB and ircDDBGateway). Please see my note below.

Dashboard Differences
-------------------------------
There are some Dashboard differences between D-Star repeaters running G2 or G3 with the DPlus add-on for REF linking, vs repeaters running ircDDBGateway with its built-in support for REF, XRF, DCS and XLS linking. Your note mentions one big difference – the D-Plus Dashboard, for example at does indeed show callsigns of “Linked Gateways” that are running Gx and DPlus reflector software. But repeaters running alternate gateways like ircDDBGateway are treated as if they are hotspots and are listed in the “Remote Users” section.

Of course, the author of DPlus and the REF reflector code could enhance the DPlus Dlashboard code to list callsigns of alternative gateways in the Linked Gateways section, but he has no incentive to advertise other systems. I have found most D-Star hams can function well even if their favorite repeater is not listed as a Linked Gateway on REF Dashboards.

And you are also correct – when setting up a repeater using ircDDBGateway, it is important that the config file has gatewayCallsign set to the repeater’s callsign. So when linked to an REF reflector, the repeater’s callsign will at least be correct in the Remote Users section.

Regarding D-Star registration of a repeater/gatelway’s callsign, here is my understanding. Do not register it when setting up a new gateway. I lack detailed information here, but I believe the Trust Server Team’s software will not allow a new gateway into the D-STAR network if the callsign is registered as a user. But once all is set up, you can then register the callsign.

Just never, never, use the repeater’s callsign as a user’s callsign in the MY callsign field of a D-Star radio.

Which Gateway to use?
--------------------------------
This is really a personal choice for the repeater’s owners and administrator, and they may well decide based on what their users prefer. If users like the idea of being able to link not only to REF reflectors, but without changes to programming their radios, they also want to link to XRF, DCS or XLX reflectors, then obviously ircDDBGateway is a good choice.

If users only want to talk to hams on REF reflectors, and/or it is important they see their reflector listed in the Linked Gateways section of the reflector’s Dashboard, or if all types of Terminal Mode callsign routing are important to them, then G3 is a good choice.

Our club’s repeater, W6CX, switched to ircDDBGateway in 2015 and our users are happy with that. (In 2021 we moved to non-ICOM radios and MultiMode, but in D-STAR mode, it still uses ircDDBGateway.)

By the way, this software can run on Linux, so our gateway computer is no longer an Intel pc. We use a Raspberry Pi 3B+ running the Pi-Star image. For DStar-only repeaters, you can use the ICOM controller and radios along with G4KLX’s ircDDBGateway. But the Pi-Star team does all the work keeping files and programs up to date. And it is somewhat simpler to manage the repeater remotely.

Good luck with your repeater.

Jim – K6JM

PS Our emails have been discussing ircDDBGateway, written by G4KLX, which is meant as an alternative to G2/G3, to manage D-Star networking.

Then there is ircDDB. This application is an add-on to G2 or G3 to enhance how D-Star does callsign routing. Basically, G2 and G3 use their own networking to update a Last Heard database with every callsign heard by every network-connected G2/G3 repeater/gateway and the IP address of the gateway where the callsign was last heard. Some German hams discovered ICOM’s network often took a long time to get updated. A mobile ham may be using a given repeater, but by the time the Last Heard database finally gets updated, that ham/callsign is now out of range of that repeater and has moved onto another one.

So the German hams wrote ircDDB. When added to the ICOM Gx gateway, it uses the irc (internet relay chat) network which gets the data to the Last Heard database faster than ICOM’s method. It soon became standard practice, when putting up a new ICOM repeater, to add in both DPlus and ircDDB. So if you have read that ircDDB and G2/G3 can both run at the same time, that is absolutely right, since ircDDB is intended as an add-on to ICOM’s gateway.

I should note that G4KLX’s ircDDBGateway also uses the faster irc network to keep last heard info up to date.

You can see the confusion because of the similar names – the ircDDBGateway replacement for G2/G3 gateway and the ircDDB add-on to G2/G3.


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of f5hcc
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 1:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [G3-ircDDBGateway] Is it possible to install ICOM G3 software AFTER IRCddbGateway software ?

Hello Jim.

Thank you for your help.

Of course, I'm not sure if users really want to use the Terminal Mode on their ICOM radio, and there are other G3 gateways they can use.

I thought that it was possible to have both gateways (ICOM G3 and IRCddbGateway) running at the same time, using the ICOM G3 gateway for D-Plus traffic and IRCddbGateway for other protocols, but I understand through your answer that it is not possible. That is probably why it is recommanded to "shut down D-Plus in ICOM software".

So, it means that, when a user initiates a connection to a D-Plus reflector (REFxxx or other), the callsign of the repeater doesn't display on the dashboard of the reflector, the displayed callsign is the one embedded in the configuration file of IRCddbGateway.

The only way to display the callsign of the repeater would be to register the callsign of the repeater on US-Trust. I have always been told that it was not useful to register a repeater on US-Trust, but I guess that it was defined at the beginning of D-Star when only ICOM-based repeater were connected (as the repeaters were registered automatically on US-Trust when they were created). I think that I can register the repeater on US-Trust as a "standard user" so the callsign will be displayed on the dashboard of the reflector.

I will go on this way, adding ICOM G3 package on the repeater (the repeater is already running with IRCddbGateway and working fine on my test bench).

Thanks again for your help.

Best 73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

Good Afternoon Jim.

Thank you for your feedback.

I will use your experience to do the things right !

I am already running a D-Star repeater (till many years now !) based on non-ICOM hardware, 2 TAIT Radios, a GMSK modem and a RPi. Software is G4KLX software suite under PiOS (no Pi-Star !).

All this is running fine, the only drawback is to have to update manually on a regular basis the IP addresses of the reflectors.

On the other hand, I bought an ICOM configuration (RP2C, RP2000V, RP4000V) that has been dismantled in Paris a few years ago, the team in charge of it was no longer interested in D-Star and migrated to DMR, then P25 and TETRA.

This repeater will be located at the same place than before (center of Paris) with only UHF band running (the cost for a VHF duplexer is too high to deploy again the RP2000V !).

The PC will run CentOS with ICOM G3 for registration (I bought it from ICOM) and G4KLX IRCddbGateway for reflectors connectivity.

I use PiStar on my hotspots, it is very interesting for "auto-update" (reflectors IP addresses), but when you "explore" it, you can find some differences as it doesn't use the latest version of G4KLX suite (especially for APRS-IS connectivity).

In fact, PiStar is a kind of "black box" which is very easy to use by the newbie, but a bit frustrating for an expert (which I ain't !!!).

I heard that some sysops wrote a package that was able to update the files containing the reflector IP addresses for IRCddbGateway (the same way it is done in PiStar), I will try to get that.

Best 73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

Fabrice,

Yes, while Pi-Star is mostly up to date with the latest G4KLX MultiMode software versions, including the very new M17 mode, it is not up to date with the older G4KLX D-Star only software. It is not helped by the fact that G4KLX only makes the older programs available as source code. In the past, he also distributed a binary version compiled for Intel/Windows, and another ham would also compile for Intel/Linux, so all we had to do is download binaries.

Pi-Star was built for home-based hotspots, but I am finding new MultiMode repeaters are also using it. The main drawback is the Administrative password is the only protection to keep non-administrators out of the admin function. The main advantage is Andy takes care of all the updating and it is really easy to administrate.

I am an administrator that prefers software stability over the latest version. In the D-Star world, there are very few features being added, at least not features our repeater users are asking for.

But I understand different repeaters have different purposes and different user requirements. We are lucky to have so many choices.

There are several sources of the latest gateways and their IP addresses. I have seen a few articles about how to use these other sources on Pi-Star using automated updates.

Good luck on the new system in the center of Paris. Sounds like a fun project!

Jim – K6JM

PS One comment – since your use of G3 will be to have callsign registration, you will need to identify the Linux tasks that need to be stopped so ircDDBGateway can function as the gateway. If you can’t find the list, I can find that information, since I needed to know that when I loaded G3 onto a Cloud VM in order to run the registration app and database on a machine that of course did not have any gateway software.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of f5hcc
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 11:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [G3-ircDDBGateway] Is it possible to install ICOM G3 software AFTER IRCddbGateway software ?

Good Afternoon Jim.

Thank you for your feedback.

I will use your experience to do the things right !

I am already running a D-Star repeater (till many years now !) based on non-ICOM hardware, 2 TAIT Radios, a GMSK modem and a RPi. Software is G4KLX software suite under PiOS (no Pi-Star !).

All this is running fine, the only drawback is to have to update manually on a regular basis the IP addresses of the reflectors.

On the other hand, I bought an ICOM configuration (RP2C, RP2000V, RP4000V) that has been dismantled in Paris a few years ago, the team in charge of it was no longer interested in D-Star and migrated to DMR, then P25 and TETRA.

This repeater will be located at the same place than before (center of Paris) with only UHF band running (the cost for a VHF duplexer is too high to deploy again the RP2000V !).

The PC will run CentOS with ICOM G3 for registration (I bought it from ICOM) and G4KLX IRCddbGateway for reflectors connectivity.

I use PiStar on my hotspots, it is very interesting for "auto-update" (reflectors IP addresses), but when you "explore" it, you can find some differences as it doesn't use the latest version of G4KLX suite (especially for APRS-IS connectivity).

In fact, PiStar is a kind of "black box" which is very easy to use by the newbie, but a bit frustrating for an expert (which I ain't !!!).

I heard that some sysops wrote a package that was able to update the files containing the reflector IP addresses for IRCddbGateway (the same way it is done in PiStar), I will try to get that.

Best 73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

Hello Jim.

As Pi-Star hasn't been updated till June 2021, a French team (Dstar-France.fr) has written a script that updates all G4KLX software in Pi-Star.

The info can be found here :?

Unfortunately, it is written in French, but of course the embedded Linux command lines can be used.

If a translation is needed, I will ask the team their agreement.

73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.

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I was able to download and use this bash script from DStar France.? It worked great.? Just use the browser translator to show you the page in your language.

Thanks very much for this link.? Now we can update the MMDVMHost software in Pi-Star easily.? The newest MMDVMHost source code from Jonathon-G4KLX includes a timing flaw fix for D-STAR that causes dropouts in busy nets.? The fix was added to the MMDVMHost github page in Jan 2023.

My Pi-Star now shows it is using MMDVMHost version 4.2.0.? And is working just fine.

Randy-W4LKS
Washington Digital Radio Enthusiasts ARC
Spokane, WA

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Hi Fabrice,

Here is what I found:

If you do this update, there might be an issue whereby the Pi-Star thinks your callsign has become M1ABC.? You'll know because at the top of the main dashboard screen, it says: "Pi-Star Digtal Voice Dashboard for M1ABC"?? instead of using your personal callsign.

I found that you can fix this by manually editing the following file:

/var/www/dashboard/config/ircddblocal.php

In that file...change the M1ABC to your own callsign.? Then reboot.

You might want to pass this along to the DStar France team who makes the bash script.

Again, thanks for sending this message to the group.? And for sending it in English for us.

Randy - W4LKS

Hi Randy.

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

I will forward it to DStar France team.

73 from Fabrice, F5HCC.