On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 08:09 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

Peaceful transfer of power? ?No way Trump is going to let that happen if he still has any say in the matter at all, more violence is supposedly planned for the 17th.

Yes, the word "peaceful" applies only to the heavily protected area.? tRump has incited a civil war.? This isn't a one-off.? Luckily, I think the fact that most of the "army" just aren't demonstrating much intelligence. lThe tRump thumbprint is all over the tepid response.? He left Biden a civil war and an unchecked pandemic.
Hawley and Cruz and Flynn and all the Republicans who voted not to certify are part of the movement to dismantle and overthrow the government. I expect the FBI is going to get the authority to go after domestic terrorists.?

This article summarized what "we the sane ones" are dealing with.?

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Em

The real enemy of the people?

"Iran can call for Jews to be killed on Twitter’s platform and China can spread propaganda about how rounding up Uyghur men and forced sterilization of Uyghur women is actually good, but Donald Trump can’t tweet."

Twitter Is the Enemy of the American People

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 09:06 AM, awb wrote:

This is imperative. Throw the megaphone out

In more normal times, this ban would be considered frightening! YMMV.

Now big-tech owns the media. Go figure.

"The ability of a handful of people to control our public discourse has never been more obvious."

Twitter Shows Where Power Now Lies

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 01:33 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

Pretty sure Facebook and Instagram did too, altho I’m not sure for how long.

Let's just call it what it is - censorship.? Don't say Trump was banned for breaking the rules.

The Ban of Trump on Twitter Is an Unacceptable Act of Censorship

Good article. Love this part:
The Trumpian Lost Cause has quite different origins, of course. It does not derive from sacrifice of blood and treasure in war. On its face it is not a response to the military conquest of a society. But it does seem to be tonic for those who fear long-term social change; it is a story in search of revival and order. Trumpism knows what it hates: liberalism; taxation; what it perceives as big government; nonwhite immigrants who drain the homeland’s resources; government regulation imposed on individuals and businesses; foreign entanglements and wars that require America to be too generous to strange peoples in faraway places; any hint of gun control; feminism in high places; the nation’s inevitable ethnic and racial pluralism; and the infinite array of practices or ideas it calls “political correctness.” Potent ideas all in search of a history.

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 08:09 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

Peaceful transfer of power? ?No way Trump is going to let that happen if he still has any say in the matter at all, more violence is supposedly planned for the 17th.

Sal

I'm still holding to my opinion that the storming of the Capital was the best thing that ever happened for "our" side. It was a bridge too far, a red line crossed, an act that disgusted even many Repugs. It was the most perfect example of why trump and his ilk are so hideous, so deranged and so desperate. We would be a in a very different place right now if Wednesday hadn't happened. And yes, there will be more blood and others will be killed and maimed and it will most likely include members of Congress. It will become apparent how and why the mob was able to access the Capital with so little real resistance and trump and those who are related to him by blood or simply enabled him to the end will be pariahs. The jokers, the so-called patriots and men happy to dress up and scream the injustices that plague them while smearing their own feces on the walls and rampaging the streets and hallways will strike again even as trump's power and influence wanes until it exists only in the darkest corners of the internet. He is very much done but the hate unleashed on America will live on in its various forms for many months, perhaps years, to come. Hate won't be destroyed - it will simply recede back underground from where it came before trump encouraged it to emerge as a tsunami.

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Peaceful transfer of power? ?No way Trump is going to let that happen if he still has any say in the matter at all, more violence is supposedly planned for the 17th.

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 09:30 AM, Emily Mae wrote:

He'll probably pardon him (if Trump resigns - lol).?

If tRump doesn't resign and Pence invokes the 25th with the body that Congress approves if the Cabinet won't do it, there would be a peaceful transition of power with presidents from both administrations in attendance. Don't tell me why that just occurred to me!
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Em

This is an excellent article that delves into more of the details of Trumpism.? (As an aside, I didn't learn about the Lost Cause or even the correct story of the Civil War until I was in Atlanta years ago and visited the African American Museum of History.) It's time to put out some more Schoolhouse Rock.??
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One hundred and fifty years after the emergence of the Confederate Lost Cause ideology, a new Lost Cause invaded the U.S. Capitol with the incitement of the president of the United States. Waving American, Confederate, Gadsden and, especially, Trump flags, Donald Trump’s loyalists desecrated the greatest symbolic edifice of America.

Trumpism has already become a lethal Lost Cause. It does not quite have martyrs and a cult of the fallen in which to root its hopes and dreams. But it does have a self-destructive cult leader about to leave power in a defeat that has been transformed into a narrative of betrayal, resistance and a promise of political revitalization.

The important Lost Causes in history have all been at heart compelling stories about noble defeats that were, with time, forged into political movements of renewal: the French after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71 and the profound need for national?revanche; Germany after the Great War and its “stab in the back” theory that led over the 1920s to the rise of the nationalism and racism of the Nazis; and the white South after our Civil War. All Lost Causes find their lifeblood in lies, big and small, lies born of beliefs in search of a history that can be forged into a story and mobilize masses of people to act politically, violently, and in the name of ideology.

The?story?demands a religious loyalty. It?must be protected, reinforced, practiced in ritual and infused with symbols. What is the Trumpian claim of a stolen election but an elaborate fiction that fights to make the reality and truth of the unbelievers irrelevant. Some myths are benign as cultural markers; but others are rooted in big lies so strong as engines of resentment that they can fill parade grounds and endless political rallies, or motivate the storming of the U.S. Capitol in a quixotic attempt to overthrow an election.

Mr. Trump’s Lost Cause takes its fuel from conspiratorial myths of all kinds, rehearsed for years on Trump media and social media platforms. Its guiding theories include: Christianity under duress and attack; large corrupt cities full of Black and brown people manipulated by liberal elites; Barack Obama as alien; a socialist movement determined to tax you into subservience to “big government”; liberal media out to crush family and conservative values; universities and schools teaching the young a history that hates America; resentment of nonwhite immigrants who threaten a particular national vision; and whatever hideous new version of a civil religion QAnon represents.

An effective, enduring Lost Cause story needs to know clearly what it hates, has to attain widespread control of its own communication and needs institutional rooting, and it must explain almost everything. It converts loss and longstanding grievance into community, and promises of victory on altars of strife.

The Confederate Lost Cause is one of the most deeply ingrained mythologies in American history. It emerged first as a mood of traumatized defeat in the 1860s, but grew into an array of arguments, organizations and rituals in search of a story that could win hearts and minds and regain power in the Southern states. It was initially a psychological response to the trauma of collective loss among former Confederates. It gained traction in violent groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and in the re-emergence of the Democratic Party’s resistance to Reconstruction.

?

It assumed the character of a religious movement in endless sermons about the noble fallen soldiers who defended home, hearth, their women and their God. It maintained that the best cause in a war can lose nobly if overwhelmed by industrial might and other evil forces of modernity. A lasting civil religion requires a saint, and the South quickly created one out of the life of Robert E. Lee, the Confederacy’s leading general who fought to the bitter end, but died in 1870, before he could discourage the ubiquitous mythmaking and monument building in his honor.

Crucially, the Lost Cause argued that the Confederacy never fought to preserve slavery, and that it was never truly defeated on battlefields. Lost Cause spokesmen saw the Confederacy as the true heir of the American Revolution, and maintained that loss by the underdog could transform into a success story even for Yankees in need of security and patriotic sentiment in an age of anxiety over rapid urbanization, immigration and strife between labor and capital. Above all, the Lost Cause seductively reminded white Americans that the Confederacy had stood for a civilization in which both races thrived in their natural capacities, a regime of proper racial and gender order. The slaughter of the Civil War had destroyed that order, but it could be remade and the whole nation, defined as white Anglo-Saxon, could yet be revived.

By the 1890s, the Lost Cause was no longer a story of loss, but one of victory: the defeat of Reconstruction. Southerners — whether run-of-the-mill local politicians, famous former generals or women who forged the culture of monument building — portrayed white supremacy and home rule for the South as the nation’s victory over radicalism and Negro rule. Reconstruction in the 1860s, forged in the three great constitutional amendments (13th, 14th and 15th), had been overthrown to the glory of America.

?

The Trumpian Lost Cause has quite different origins, of course. It does not derive from sacrifice of blood and treasure in war. On its face it is not a response to the military conquest of a society. But it does seem to be tonic for those who fear long-term social change; it is a story in search of revival and order. Trumpism knows what it hates: liberalism; taxation; what it perceives as big government; nonwhite immigrants who drain the homeland’s resources; government regulation imposed on individuals and businesses; foreign entanglements and wars that require America to be too generous to strange peoples in faraway places; any hint of gun control; feminism in high places; the nation’s inevitable ethnic and racial pluralism; and the infinite array of practices or ideas it calls “political correctness.” Potent ideas all in search of a history.

Crucially, the Lost Cause argued that the Confederacy never fought to preserve slavery, and that it was never truly defeated on battlefields. Lost Cause spokesmen saw the Confederacy as the true heir of the American Revolution, and maintained that loss by the underdog could transform into a success story even for Yankees in need of security and patriotic sentiment in an age of anxiety over rapid urbanization, immigration and strife between labor and capital. Above all, the Lost Cause seductively reminded white Americans that the Confederacy had stood for a civilization in which both races thrived in their natural capacities, a regime of proper racial and gender order. The slaughter of the Civil War had destroyed that order, but it could be remade and the whole nation, defined as white Anglo-Saxon, could yet be revived.

By the 1890s, the Lost Cause was no longer a story of loss, but one of victory: the defeat of Reconstruction. Southerners — whether run-of-the-mill local politicians, famous former generals or women who forged the culture of monument building — portrayed white supremacy and home rule for the South as the nation’s victory over radicalism and Negro rule. Reconstruction in the 1860s, forged in the three great constitutional amendments (13th, 14th and 15th), had been overthrown to the glory of America.

?

The Trumpian Lost Cause has quite different origins, of course. It does not derive from sacrifice of blood and treasure in war. On its face it is not a response to the military conquest of a society. But it does seem to be tonic for those who fear long-term social change; it is a story in search of revival and order. Trumpism knows what it hates: liberalism; taxation; what it perceives as big government; nonwhite immigrants who drain the homeland’s resources; government regulation imposed on individuals and businesses; foreign entanglements and wars that require America to be too generous to strange peoples in faraway places; any hint of gun control; feminism in high places; the nation’s inevitable ethnic and racial pluralism; and the infinite array of practices or ideas it calls “political correctness.” Potent ideas all in search of a history.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/opinion/trump-capitol-lost-cause.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
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Em

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Pretty sure Facebook and Instagram did too, altho I’m not sure for how long.

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 07:06 AM, awb wrote:

So, nail the bastard for all he's worth. His life as a free man is over.

Exactly.? Disempower him and render him impotent.? Twitter did the exact right thing.? A little late.? Others platforms need to follow. Immediately.??
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Em

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 07:37 AM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

These POSs are using the tools of democracy to trash democracy. And Pence? ?Even after his life was put in significant danger he still refuses to invoke the 25th or even take Pelosi’s calls.

Great line. Pence is scared for his life. However, he has put the fact that he will be seen as a "traitor" by the tRumpsters ahead of his duty to the country and Constitution, in effect a betrayal of monumental import.? I still hope against hope he will decide to invoke the 25th.? It would help burst the Q myths about tRump's invincibility, for one.? He'll probably pardon him (if Trump resigns - lol).?

The Republicans are no more.? The ones who aren't tRumpsters should declare themselves Independents and caucus with the Democrats to create a supermajority in Congress. Negotiations should occur within the pro-Democracy party.? Ice these guys out and render them impotent.? It will help to get them voted out.? Future candidates running for office need to be vetted and their allegiance to tRump exposed and used against them. The RNC is effectively the fundraising arm of the POT.? They welcomed him with open arms as their cult leader.? A violent cult whose purpose is to take democracy and the government down.? Personally, I believe we have to start talking in stark terms. There are millions of believers and secondary followers. I'm looking forward to the prosecutions, distracting as they may be, and his being carted off to prison. That will help a lot, a lot.
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Em

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If Trump wasn’t headed for prison before (a big if) he surely is now. ?Unless he’s planning on making a run for it his life as a free man is indeed over. ?And hopefully with it any perks of being “president.”

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 07:16 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

Trump’s Twitter account is dead

Read on the internet:

"..if you think the election was unfree and unfair, as 30-40% of people apparently do according to polling, the fake election was the attack on democracy, and it already happened, making the government illegitimate!"

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 09:06 AM, awb wrote:

This is imperative. Throw the megaphone out and the guy becomes even more impotent.

The ban will only amp up online conspiracy groups, cloud computing, and online social media surveillance.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 05:16 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

Ding dong Trump’s Twitter account is dead ?
This is big
Thank you karma

This is imperative. Throw the megaphone out and the guy becomes even more impotent. All he has is his rage and bluster. He is a windbag. His hate will continue to foment among those who are also filled with rage. The ugly underbelly of America and her worst citizens has been exposed. It was always there but trump gave it a platform and threw some fertilizer on it. They must impeach and we have an immediate future of dire threats of violence towards all sorts of targets including politicians, black and brown people and those who oppose trump. No one is really safe. Every GOP member has a target on their back. There is no making the mob happy. They are out for blood and will spill it, for sure. Most rational people have now seen who trump really is. Pandering to his base by not going after him whole hog is an erroneous notion. There is no winning them over at this point. So, nail the bastard for all he's worth. His life as a free man is over.

?Ding dong Trump’s Twitter account is dead ?
This is big
Thank you karma




Sal

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On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 12:21 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

You tried to play the racist card because I called him a "black activist", a term even black leaders use themselves and how they are defined on Pacifica.? It's not a derogatory term.? So I called you a racist for doing that particularly because you made a racial issue.

Yes, without the context of the interview you posted afterwards, I wasn't sure how you were thinking about said activist. ?That's why I asked the question?? ?Would you say "white activist?" ?I'm guessing no. ?You'd just say "activist." ?But, yeah, I listen to a lot of black and white activists pushing for reform.?

I used black activist because a lot of people wouldn't have expected one to say the things he did.? And I applauded him for saying so.? I think most would have gotten that.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 12:21 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

You tried to play the racist card because I called him a "black activist", a term even black leaders use themselves and how they are defined on Pacifica.? It's not a derogatory term.? So I called you a racist for doing that particularly because you made a racial issue.

Yes, without the context of the interview you posted afterwards, I wasn't sure how you were thinking about said activist. ?That's why I asked the question?? ?Would you say "white activist?" ?I'm guessing no. ?You'd just say "activist." ?But, yeah, I listen to a lot of black and white activists pushing for reform. ?

I'm not playing the race card. ?Way to build a disinformation narrative! ?Getting clarity about racial issues isn't what racism is. ?I'm surprised you don't understand this. ?

Anyway, it's so very easy to misconstrue intent of another person, make assumptions, and run with a negative narrative when you're assessing reality via an online platform. I'm typed out for now.?
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Em