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I was once told half a century ago by an old timer, "It does not matter if you have the latest expensive radio or a battered homemade thing, both will be equally humbled for the lack of a decent antenna system.".
With the FT857 on 2 or 70, you need a
You also need decent coaxial cable
Also the plugs.
That will make the FT857 get out on 2 and 70. If you are high up and in the clear you may make 35 to 40 miles on FM.
It works for me. DX anyone on VHF or UHF?
73
Paul G. Chapman MInstLM G4IJL ?
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Brian,
Since you have the hand held. Key the 857 and listen on the HT.? Do you hear the tone?? I have a 857 and it accesses the repeaters fine., BUT you have to have all of the RPT/TONE requirements set up perfectly
Hope that helps. Mel, K6KBE
On Friday, June 21, 2019, 02:03:49 PM PDT, sv.takara@... [FT-857] wrote:
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline test I was able to access the repeater on low power without issues. Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the 857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D. No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory. Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5' antenna connected via an MFJ Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my wife after by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with 5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
Did you verify that the 857D is producing about the right amount of
RF power?
Can you hear the 857D transmitting when the HT is receiving
146.13?
If yes, try this: Set the HT to receive on 146.13, with tone
squelch set to 107.2.? Then see if you can still hear the 857D on
the HT.? (Normally I'd say use a different freq for testing, but
if you're not opening the repeater you're not interfering....)? If
not, then it would seem the 857D isn't transmitting the tone, at
least not the right one.?
Have you looked at the mic gain setting?? Offhand I don't know if
that effects the tone level, probably not, but worth checking.?
There is an adjustment for the CTCSS tone deviation in the service
menus, but I don't know if I'd mess with it without the test
equipment to properly set it.
How about trying other repeaters?? With that vertical dipole you
should be able to hit repeaters 50+ miles away.?
-Les W6VN
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I
have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline
test I was able to access the repeater on low power
without issues. Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the
857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for
simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and
tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D.
No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory.
Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key
the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I
have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5'
antenna connected via an MFJ Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot
access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting
right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be
selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my !
wife after by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same
antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with
5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT
transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all
your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
When you key the 857, dies the HT squelch break?
73,
--Hank
KB4MTO / TA5ZC
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I
have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline
test I was able to access the repeater on low power
without issues. Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the
857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for
simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and
tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D.
No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory.
Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key
the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I
have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5'
antenna connected via an MFJ Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot
access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting
right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be
selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my wife
afte r by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same
antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with
5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT
transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all
your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
What does THIS statement mean?
>>Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the 857D it was a no go.
Why is that? Your VHF antenna for 2 meters NEEDS to be connected to the VHF/UHF port on the FT857 or you have no VHF energy going? anywhere!
I hope that helps and sorry if I misunderstood!
Bry AF4K
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: FT-857@... on behalf of sv.takara@... [FT-857]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 10:46
To: FT-857@...
Subject: [FT-857] Re: FT-857D not breaking 2m repeater squelch
?
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline test I was able to access the repeater on low power without issues. Connecting to the VHF
antenna port on the 857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D. No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory. Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5' antenna connected via an MFJ
Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my wife after by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with 5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
One more point about the HT antenna:? it probably gives a very
high SWR for the 857D.? The 857D (like most rigs, especially if
they're capable of running more than a very few watts) is designed
to cut back output power when it detects a mis-matched antenna,
for its own protection.? So, although you have set the rig to
transmit 5 watts, it may have cut back its power significantly
even from that, and be giving only a fraction of that to the
antenna. The HT probably expects a mis-matched antenna most of the
time anyway, so may not be cutting its power back to the same
extent as the 857D.? Just a thought.
?Good luck
???? 73
??????? Darrel, aa7fv.
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Hello Brian,
Thanks for the comprehensive details and it seems like you're
doing things well.? I only have a few more thoughts:
?? - You mentioned you tried turning the HT to act like repeater
(same frequency, tone, tone *squelch*) but you then said "no love
from the repeater".? Did you mean no love from the "HT"??? If that
doesn't work, it sounds like you might have an issue with the
FT857.?? Maybe you can try other TONES to see if you get different
results??? I have seen tone level issues on some radios (*cough*
Icom IC92 *cough) where some tones won't work but others will.?
? ? ? NOTE: Using an HT right next to your FT857 can mess with
it's reception as it's too close to the transmitter and thus the
signal is just too strong.? I've seen where the receiver's
frontend will get so saturated that it wouldn't properly decode
the tone and thus break the squelch
?? - On a lark, do a full factory reset on the FT857.? In the
archives here, very weird, quirky thing have been addressed
"magically" by doing a reset.? It's kind of a lame answer but it's
been effective enough not to try it before shipping it back to
Yaesu.
--David
KI6ZHD
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I
have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline
test I was able to access the repeater on low power
without issues. Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the
857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for
simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and
tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D.
No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory.
Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key
the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I
have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5'
antenna connected via an MFJ Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot
access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting
right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be
selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my wife
after by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same
antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with
5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT
transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all
your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
Thanks Les. That is a great test and I wish I had thought of it before.
The quick answer is no, the 857D with T:107.2 did not open the sql of the HT with a R:107.2 receive CTCSS. So there we go. The issue is the 857D is apparently not transmitting a CTCSS tone.
Next step that was recommended by David KI6ZHD is to do a complete factory reset. I will do this and then try the VHF test again before I reinstall the memories from an image file.
I will report back later. Again, thanks to everyone.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
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Brian, have you tried to use any other 2m or 70cm frequency to communicate on with the 857D. It sounds as if, possibly, you are not transmitting out of the 2m/70cm side of the radio. You can check this by contacting a friend on these bands using the 857D. If you are able to do this, then it would appear that you have a problem with the 857D's tone generator. If you can not, I would start by checking the finals on the 2m/70cm portion of the radio.
James B Stafford AJ5BS
On Friday, June 21, 2019, 6:13:03 PM CDT, David Ranch yft950@... [FT-857] wrote:
?
Hello Brian,
Thanks for the comprehensive details and it seems like you're
doing things well.? I only have a few more thoughts:
?? - You mentioned you tried turning the HT to act like repeater
(same frequency, tone, tone *squelch*) but you then said "no love
from the repeater".? Did you mean no love from the "HT"??? If that
doesn't work, it sounds like you might have an issue with the
FT857.?? Maybe you can try other TONES to see if you get different
results??? I have seen tone level issues on some radios (*cough*
Icom IC92 *cough) where some tones won't work but others will.?
? ? ? NOTE: Using an HT right next to your FT857 can mess with
it's reception as it's too close to the transmitter and thus the
signal is just too strong.? I've seen where the receiver's
frontend will get so saturated that it wouldn't properly decode
the tone and thus break the squelch
?? - On a lark, do a full factory reset on the FT857.? In the
archives here, very weird, quirky thing have been addressed
"magically" by doing a reset.? It's kind of a lame answer but it's
been effective enough not to try it before shipping it back to
Yaesu.
--David
KI6ZHD
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I
have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline
test I was able to access the repeater on low power
without issues. Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the
857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for
simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and
tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D.
No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory.
Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key
the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I
have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5'
antenna connected via an MFJ Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot
access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting
right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be
selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my wife
after by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same
antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with
5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT
transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all
your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
If you have access to a Service Monitor check the no-mod tone only deviation, should be around 0.7KHz if it is transmitting the tone.
Mitch N4MF
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Sounds like a real puzzle. I wonder if the deviation is set too high in your 857. If, for example, you are somehow set for wideband FM then you will have a deviation of your FM carrier that is out of the passband of the repeater and you will be "invisible". A factory reset should correct that, but it also may help to look into the service menu to see what it is. We used to have trouble on a local repeater when some folks had their mic gain to high and they would drop right out on voice peaks, and the same may be happening with your tone encoding.
73, =Vic= WA4THR
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Thanks, I'll look into the deviation and mic gain.
Tests last night of resetting the processor in the 857D resulted in no change. After about 5 resets and manual configuration on VHF with TEN and without, the 857D could not break the squelch of the HT, even if the HT is in a different part of the house. So unless there is something else, this 857D is not working correctly. Maybe I will remove the jumpers installed for the MARS/CAP mod and reset the radio again.
Again, thanks to everyone for your help.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
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1, move the antenna 1/2 wavelenth towards or away from the repeater direction. It may be at the "null".
2, did you use a watt meter in line to determine if there is any power output?
3, program a radio with the tone squelch on the rx side to prove if the 857 is tx'ing the PL code.
Tony
VA7TF? VE7ACF
?
Put up the vertical dipole. Using the antenna analyzer I have an SWR of 1.5:1 over 5MHz. Using the HT as a baseline test I was able to access the repeater on low power without issues. Connecting to the VHF antenna port on the 857D it was a no go. So I reprogrammed the radio for simplex with tone on the uplink frequency of 146.13MHz and tone 107.2. Using the HT as a receiver I keyed the 857D. No love from the repeater.
To answer some questions that I am recalling from memory. Yes, I do see the radio switching frequencies when I key the mic. Yes. I am using the correct antenna port, but I have to admit that I checked. I currently have a 106.5' antenna connected via an MFJ Smart Tuner on the HF port.
For the life of me I still do not understand why I cannot access the repeater with this radio when my HT sitting right next to the radio can.
At this time if I had purchased the radio I would be selling it. However, it was a Christmas gift from my wife after by beloved TS-50S died. So, I must keep it.
The parameters again are
Mode = FM
Shift = 600KHz
Shift = - (minus)
Tone = 107.2 on both R and T
ARS = ON
Tfreq = 146.130
Rfreq = 146.730
Tfreq displayed on keydown = yes
TEN Displayed = yes
(-) Displayed = yes
Power = 5W up to 30W
Ant = Vertical Dipole
SWR = 1.5:1
So there we have it. HT keys repeater with the same antenna on 1W but 857D does not key the repeater with 5W~30W. I must conclude that the 857D is possibly NOT transmitting the tone.
You guys have been a great help and I truly appreciate all your input.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
New observation. If I use a tone generator that is online, and use that to key the radio, the repeater opens. If I have to tone generator level loud enough, I can hear and compare the tone from the radio. It appears that the tone from the radio is lower in frequency. So I am wondering if by chance there is an adjustment I can make or if I have to send it away for this adjustment.
My setup that made the work temporarily is...
PC to Signalink USB Sound Card
Signalink to 857D
Set tone generator to 107.2Hz
Keying the tone generator keys the radio
Unkey and the repeater opens and I get the usual voice and cw info. I made sure that no one was using the repeater first. I found this by accident when playing with the tone generator I forgot to turn off the Signalink.
So now it is looking like a CTCSS frequency issues. Using the HT on the input I can hear CTCSS tone from the radio, weak, but I hear it.
Again, thanks for everyone's help
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
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If you have a HF antenna connected, try it on the VHF side. It actually should work surprisingly well. Also have your HT on the input frequency to make sure your signal makes it out.?
Buzz
KD4CXI
On Thursday, June 20, 2019, 20:24, sv.takara@... [FT-857] wrote:
?
I have read all the replies and have indeed started to build a 2M Vertical Dipole. So I ma not ruling out that it could be an antenna issue. However...
If a HT can hit a repeater 22 miles away with 1W in my shack, then in theory, the 857D with the same antenna attached should also be able to do this with 5W (minimum allowable power). Yes, the HT frame (not the human holding the radio as we absorb RF energy, not reflect it) is acting as the counterpoise to the antenna. So it goes to show that the frame of the 857D is greater in area than a HT. On top of that, I know that a cournterpoise is needed and I had one on when I was testing. Watt meter showed 4W output and SWR showed about 1.3:1.. It is possible that a common mode current is building up and preventing me a clean signal.
The radio is showing TEN and when I key the mic, the repeater input of 146.13MHz is shown. So as for programming I believe all the parameters are correct. Some specifics....
Power is provided by a 12VDC 22AH AGM battery. SOC on the battery is 80+% on key down. So there is ample power available.
As far as antennas are concerned, I do have an ICOM IC-707 with HF antenna aboard my boat. it works fine. It is just a 35' wire with tuner and the appropriate ground both wire and seawater. I do understand antennas.
With that in mind, I must assume that the radio is not at fault. I shall concentrate on the antenna. It should be finished tomorrow. I will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks for everyone's comments.
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
|
James Stafford
Vic WA4THR