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Dick Cooper Time Book - NYC Catskill Mountain Branch

 

8/1/47 #537, power Fx heavy 4-6-0 811, passenger rate, marked on Kingston 6:25 PM, marked off Kingston 12:50 AM, on duty 6:25, paid $9.04 for 100 miles, Simmons engineer, Cooper fireman.
--
Ed Cox
 

That time return looks odd, but it's not. In 1946-1948, NYC added back a few summer passenger trains on the CMB. Train 537 was a Friday-only short turn from Kingston to Stamford. There was no corresponding schedule for a return as a regular train, but it is most likely that they ran in reverse to Arkville and turned the engine for the rest of the return to Kingston. The return move would have been an extra train, which could be easily handled with one train order and Clearance Form A.

Stamford was open as a train order office and manual block station until after 537's scheduled arrival. The train order would simply read, "Engine 811 run extra Stamford to Kingston." The Clearance Form A would show "Clear Block." No other manual block stations were open between Stamford and Kingston, so that was all the authority needed for Extra 811 East from Stamford to Kingston.

I don't know if they brought the passenger cars back to Kingston, or left them at Stamford. Maximum speed for passenger trains on the CMB was 45 mph, for light engines 35 mph, and for engines running backward, 20 mph; unless otherwise restricted. Probably the fastest move would be with the train, for the highest speed after turning the engine at Arkville.

A corresponding eastward train, No. 538, ran from Stamford to Kingston on Sunday evenings. Trains 537 and 538 connected with West Shore trains 37 and 38 that ran from and to Weehawken. For a long time, they were known in Stamford as the "Husband's Train." The families came to hotels in the Stamford area for summer vacations. The fathers and husbands came up for weekend visits.

Gordon Davids
 

Gordon,

Dad and I talked about these trains when he was alive. If I remember our conversation correctly, 537's passenger cars were left in Arkville for the Sunday night train #538. It could have been Stamford. My memory is not what it used to be. But I seem to remember Arkville as being the place.

Ed

On Saturday, February 1, 2020, 05:06:52 PM UTC, Gordon Davids via Groups.Io <g.davids@...> wrote:


That time return looks odd, but it's not. In 1946-1948, NYC added back a few summer passenger trains on the CMB. Train 537 was a Friday-only short turn from Kingston to Stamford. There was no corresponding schedule for a return as a regular train, but it is most likely that they ran in reverse to Arkville and turned the engine for the rest of the return to Kingston. The return move would have been an extra train, which could be easily handled with one train order and Clearance Form A.

Stamford was open as a train order office and manual block station until after 537's scheduled arrival. The train order would simply read, "Engine 811 run extra Stamford to Kingston." The Clearance Form A would show "Clear Block." No other manual block stations were open between Stamford and Kingston, so that was all the authority needed for Extra 811 East from Stamford to Kingston.

I don't know if they brought the passenger cars back to Kingston, or left them at Stamford. Maximum speed for passenger trains on the CMB was 45 mph, for light engines 35 mph, and for engines running backward, 20 mph; unless otherwise restricted. Probably the fastest move would be with the train, for the highest speed after turning the engine at Arkville.

A corresponding eastward train, No. 538, ran from Stamford to Kingston on Sunday evenings. Trains 537 and 538 connected with West Shore trains 37 and 38 that ran from and to Weehawken. For a long time, they were known in Stamford as the "Husband's Train." The families came to hotels in the Stamford area for summer vacations. The fathers and husbands came up for weekend visits.

Gordon Davids

--
Ed Cox
 

Ed -

That's logical. I don't have the 1947 time tables to tell me where Train 538 originated on Sunday. I do remember that in 1926 the U&D originated 538 on Sunday night in Oneonta, and in 1937 NYC originated 538 on Sunday night in Arkville. That would indicate that 537's extra back-up would have left the train and turned the engine at Arkville.

- Gordon Davids
 

Per the June 15, 1947 NYC timetable at this website - - 537 terminated at Arkville on Friday and originated at Arkville on Sunday.? It's table number 62.

Just curious - what was the means of turning a locomotive at Arkville?? Wye?? Turntable?

-Bill B
 

Thanks, Bill. I didn't know that the Canada Southern website had added all of those public time tables. That answers the immediate question. I recall that 537 ran to Stamford in 1948, and I had always wondered what they did for the return. That also accounts for the 100-mile day, because a passenger day was 150 miles before overtime but 100 actual miles paid the full day. Arkville was 48.1 miles from Kingston Point. Adding in the 2 miles from Kingston Enginehouse to the station makes a 100-mile round trip. Stamford was MP 74, so that round trip would have shown as 148 miles.

I do know that there was a turntable at Arkville until the end of steam in 1948. Oneonta, Bloomville, Big Indian and Phoenicia also had turntables. I think they were retired earlier. Oneonta had the only wye, until the CMB was retired west of Bloomville in 1965. It was used to turn single units on KO-1/OK-2, and snow plows. The wye at Kingston was effectively retired when the West Shore crossing was removed ca. 1958, but the turntable at the West Shore round house was used to turn engines.

I'm glad to see some return on these posts. That's how we make a complete record of the seemingly trivial items.
 

Gordon,

According to Dad, they turned the passenger equipment on the wye in Oneonta also.

Ed

On Sunday, February 2, 2020, 04:17:32 AM UTC, Gordon Davids via Groups.Io <g.davids@...> wrote:


Thanks, Bill. I didn't know that the Canada Southern website had added all of those public time tables. That answers the immediate question. I recall that 537 ran to Stamford in 1948, and I had always wondered what they did for the return. That also accounts for the 100-mile day, because a passenger day was 150 miles before overtime but 100 actual miles paid the full day. Arkville was 48.1 miles from Kingston Point. Adding in the 2 miles from Kingston Enginehouse to the station makes a 100-mile round trip. Stamford was MP 74, so that round trip would have shown as 148 miles.

I do know that there was a turntable at Arkville until the end of steam in 1948. Oneonta, Bloomville, Big Indian and Phoenicia also had turntables. I think they were retired earlier. Oneonta had the only wye, until the CMB was retired west of Bloomville in 1965. It was used to turn single units on KO-1/OK-2, and snow plows. The wye at Kingston was effectively retired when the West Shore crossing was removed ca. 1958, but the turntable at the West Shore round house was used to turn engines.

I'm glad to see some return on these posts. That's how we make a complete record of the seemingly trivial items.

--
Ed Cox

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