The Saw Attachment & Serial number
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Interesting as Lot 2 Daltons are very rare.? They were made in 1913 only and then we don't think for a full year before it was dropped and replaced with the larger Lot 3 lathe. I am puzzled about the device that is bolted to the back side of the saddle with the vertical screw and a link on top.? Looks like something that is attached to the cross slide for some purpose but what its for escapes me.? It would be the item in picture number 3.? Can you explain what its use is.?? I like the saw table very creative:-)? I think this is number 5 or 6 the number of Lot 2 lathes known of.? I have parts to one but the end of the bed were the serial number was busted off at some point in its history.? Jim Veres has the oldest one as his is serial number 25 and I have serial number 36 so this one shown in the picture is a quite late model and maybe the newest of the Lot 2 lathes found. This was the first lathe that Dalton marketed but was quickly upgraded to the Lot 3 as the Lot 2 had a lot of issues with some of its features.? The way the compound slide was attached to the cross slide was a very weak point and overall the lathe was very lightly built and suffered from vibration during cuts.? Were is this lathe located so I can add it to the registry? Dennis
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 07:34:03 AM PST, Ebaybono@... <ebaybono@...> wrote:
As promised (a little late)? |
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These bits also came with it. I¡¯m guessing the slide is from another lathe? Any ideas??
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On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 9:45 AM <Ebaybono@...> wrote:
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Hi Marc? I have toured the UK and are well aware of why so many of you guys over there have these little bitty garden sheds that are actually little machine shops.? Taxes right.? Portable buildings are not taxed.? Sad.? I met quite a number of the guys that helped me find parts for a Drummond M model I restored.? We spent a month in the UK and three weeks on a Glo Bus tour around the UK. Almost ever night I would meet one of the guys that helped me but the best night was in Buxton when I met Tony Griffith and we spent the evening together.? Well early into the morning till the hotel staff ran us off:-)? If you have spent time on Tony's site and read the Dalton history I compiled and wrote all that for Tony.? Also check out the Drummond site and take a look at my Drummond M model.? Looking forward to more pictures and explanations for your lot of accessories you got with your Lot 2 Marc.? If you have some time take a look at this web site there is more information on restoration there.? Ops need to go get the link so will do it in the next post. Dennis
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 09:30:06 AM PST, <ebaybono@...> wrote:
I¡¯m in the UK Denis. Wiltshire Marc Aeon Bradley? There are a few ¡°mystery¡± items that came with it. I¡¯ve yet to figure out what they are for. It does have the cast pedestal base (not pictured) unfortunately I don¡¯t have anywhere to put it! I¡¯ve a tiny shed in an incredibly small garden.? |
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Look this site over Marc.? ?
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 10:56:04 AM PST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
Hi Marc? I have toured the UK and are well aware of why so many of you guys over there have these little bitty garden sheds that are actually little machine shops.? Taxes right.? Portable buildings are not taxed.? Sad.? I met quite a number of the guys that helped me find parts for a Drummond M model I restored.? We spent a month in the UK and three weeks on a Glo Bus tour around the UK. Almost ever night I would meet one of the guys that helped me but the best night was in Buxton when I met Tony Griffith and we spent the evening together.? Well early into the morning till the hotel staff ran us off:-)? If you have spent time on Tony's site and read the Dalton history I compiled and wrote all that for Tony.? Also check out the Drummond site and take a look at my Drummond M model.? Looking forward to more pictures and explanations for your lot of accessories you got with your Lot 2 Marc.? If you have some time take a look at this web site there is more information on restoration there.? Ops need to go get the link so will do it in the next post. Dennis
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 09:30:06 AM PST, <ebaybono@...> wrote:
I¡¯m in the UK Denis. Wiltshire Marc Aeon Bradley? There are a few ¡°mystery¡± items that came with it. I¡¯ve yet to figure out what they are for. It does have the cast pedestal base (not pictured) unfortunately I don¡¯t have anywhere to put it! I¡¯ve a tiny shed in an incredibly small garden.? |
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Hi Marc OK now I see what the item is that is bolted to the back of the saddle.? Its the support for the saw table.? Took me a bit to put it all together.? Some one was quite creative with your lathe it looks like.? Here are a couple of pictures of two of the Lot 2 lathes we know of.? Just for a bit of reference.? The black lathe is Jim Vere's number 25 and the gray lathe is my serial number 36.? The gray lathe is still in crates as I have never uncrated it as yet.? This is a picture that was sent to me when I got the lathe.? Jims number 25 has a very unique original Dalton rear bed mounted countershaft unlike any we have seen before.? Its the only one we know of like his.? Picture of the countershaft is before Jim restored the lathe. Dennis? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 05:36:45 PM PST, <ebaybono@...> wrote:
Wow Denis the restored machines look absolutely stunning. I¡¯ll take the hint lol and start cleaning her up.? I was fortunate to get quite a few toys with it. I didn¡¯t even notice the milling attachment till I got home so as you can imagine I was delighted.? The bonus is she has no slack or obvious wear anywhere. A bit of backlash on the slide but only down to threading. Could even be just nipping that nut up a little.? Lathe came with a quarter horse power AC motor that I¡¯ve swapped out for 1hp but I¡¯m really tempted to try a DC treadmill motor 2.5hp cont that I had from a previous project but they are not great for torque. I¡¯m guessing you¡¯ve all already been down that rabbit hole. Could be worth running both at the same time and setup a belt exchange or something. Not sure yet. All the change gears are here. I¡¯ll be honest though being a Brit imperial sizes fry my brain. I¡¯d love to convert it to metric for threading. Any metric plug and play lead screws on the market?? |
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I¡¯ve taken the lathe apart and started cleaning it up.? I can confirm the serial number is eleven (11) and it¡¯s a Lot 4? ? |
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I find that really odd that the bed is stamped Lot 4.? First off measure the center height.? Lot 4 swing 7 1/4 inches a lot 2 swings 6 inches.? The cross slide and compound are definitely Lot 2 parts. The saddle is also Lot 2 with a bolt on cross slide lead screw bushing Lot 3 and 4 have a screw in bushing. I can also see that the bottom casting for the tail stock is short and is for a 6 inch lathe the Lot 3 4 and 5 lathes that casting is much taller.? Phil Boxels lathe in England is stamped Lot 2 but is in fact a Lot 4 lathe.? So maybe the guy that stamped the lot and serial number could not read:-).
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 01:00:40 PM PST, <ebaybono@...> wrote:
I¡¯ve taken the lathe apart and started cleaning it up.? I can confirm the serial number is eleven (11) and it¡¯s a Lot 4? ? |
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Another thing the lead screw mount bearing in red primer is a Lot 2 item not Lot 3 4 or 5. The mystery thickens:-)
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 05:45:00 PM PST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
I find that really odd that the bed is stamped Lot 4.? First off measure the center height.? Lot 4 swing 7 1/4 inches a lot 2 swings 6 inches.? The cross slide and compound are definitely Lot 2 parts. The saddle is also Lot 2 with a bolt on cross slide lead screw bushing Lot 3 and 4 have a screw in bushing. I can also see that the bottom casting for the tail stock is short and is for a 6 inch lathe the Lot 3 4 and 5 lathes that casting is much taller.? Phil Boxels lathe in England is stamped Lot 2 but is in fact a Lot 4 lathe.? So maybe the guy that stamped the lot and serial number could not read:-).
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 01:00:40 PM PST, <ebaybono@...> wrote:
I¡¯ve taken the lathe apart and started cleaning it up.? I can confirm the serial number is eleven (11) and it¡¯s a Lot 4? ? |
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It only matters when your looking for replacement parts.? Lot 2 lathes are vary rare and nothing interchanges with a Lot 3 4 or 5..
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 07:10:41 PM PST, Ebay Boy <ebaybono@...> wrote:
I cant imagine any reason why anyone at the factory would stamp something it isn¡¯t. Who cares anyway what lot number it is does it matter? What¡¯s the deal with these lot numbers? |
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One has to remember these are very old tools.? I have more knowledge of Dalton lathes than anyone but then one gets thrown curves when information given is not always correct.? You said its stamped Lot 4 serial number 11 but then you show a picture of it stamped Lot 2 serial number 411.? All the pictures you have shown are of a Lot 2 lathe. Lot 2 lathes were built for less than a year in 1913 the first year that Dalton Mfg was in business.? These facts and much of the information I have comes from an autobiography written by the wife of one of Hubert Daltons nephews Hubert Dalton Peck. As asked by her it was not to be published publicly but could use the information were needed.? Some of the information you see on Tony Griffiths web site which I provided for Tony came from this document.? ? I also have examples of one complete and one incomplete Lot 2 lathe as well as two Lot 3 lathes five Lot 4 lathes and four Lot 5 lathes.? I also have two Lot 6 lathes as well as two complete and one incomplete? Dalton 9 lathes so I do speak with a bit of authority.? The pictures you have shown in this post are of a Lot 2 bed as its unique to the lot number or model number.? Lot 3 beds share the design of the Lot 4 and 5 bed. One other point is that Lot 2 lathes do not have a Tee slot running down the back of the bed like all later models have.? This feature was added to all? later lathes for attaching accessories.? With the addition of the Tee slot Dalton could mount a taper attachment as well as the Fox quick threading attachment.? Quite a number of Daltons have the taper attachment but we have never found a complete Fox quick threading attachment only a couple of lathes with part of the threading attachment mounted to the lathe.?? OK I just seen the addition to your message that's with the first picture.? The Lot 2 lathe the bed was very lightly built.? Also the lead screw support bushings were bolted vertically to the bed were as in all later Lot numbers the support bushings are bolted horizontally.? ?The front edge of the bed at both ends were the bushings are bolted on was prone to be broken.? Seen several examples and have one that is damaged.? We think this damage came from the bed or lathe being dropped and landing on the end of one of the front edges.? Picture shows how the left lead screw bushing on a Lot 4 is mounted and the tail stock end is mounted the same way. Now this is only a guess but I am going to say that the Lot 2 lathe weighed 60 to 70 pounds less than the later Lot 3 4 and 5 lathes.? About the only thing that is the same is the length of the bed at 30 inches. Not sure were your at but if you go to a janitorial supply place they sell Mr. Muscle oven cleaner.? This stuff is what I have used for the last 30 years to strip parts.? You spray the bed tonight with this product and tomorrow rinse it off with a garden hose and will have a pristine clean bed nearly ready for paint.? As to paint Daltons lathes were coated with Japanning.? The product comprised of two parts boiled linseed oil two parts pure gum turpentine and one part powdered asphalt or asphaltum as it was known as back when this product was used.? Japanning was very thick and was applied with a brush and it dried very slowly. During the drying process it would lay out flat.? Then the parts would be baked three times each time at? a higher temperature.? Sometimes pine tree rosin was added as a? hardener. Also the finished parts were rubbed using cheese cloth and pumas powder. Singer sawing machines you see that are black this is japanning at its best they were masters at using it and did so all the way up into the nineteen fifties. As many of our group read these messages this is why I am writing this so others that are newer to the group can learn some of the history about there lathes. Dennis
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 01:14:31 AM PST, Ebay Boy <ebaybono@...> wrote:
If nothing interchanges as per your last message, then all your previous messages contradict. If nothing interchanges, how could I possibly have a mix of said lathes? It appears some holes exist in the knowledge regarding these lathes no??
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Dennis Turk
