|
So it looks like the spindle nose is bent on my Lot 3... I had
initially though that perhaps it was just the 4 jaw scroll chuck that
came with it... Sadly that just ain't the case. A dial indicator
running on the flat, tight against the bearing side reads fine, Out
near the chuck side I can't get a clean spot to check as I've got
threads on the outside, and some rust inside the taper... What I did
was to put a tool in the post, loose so it couldn't possibly cut, and
set it just inside the taper. Rotating the spindle by hand, I could
see a gap change between the tool and the spindle. Somebody tell me
I'm missing something obvious... I don't want to end up parting this
thing out and then having to find another small lathe to start in
on... (though going to something a little more common might be
easier...)
|
Better checkup... Set the back of a tool near the theads, and played
with feeler gauges. Looks like it wobbles by around .004".
Clearly that sucks.
So the question is, what do I do? Getting a new spindle machined
would seem to be prohibitive. I can probably buy something usable
for less, and sell off whatever people need from this unit to help
someone else to offset the cost of something else...
I've got no real sentimental value to the machine, or I would get a
new spindle made...
Thoughts?
|
I was hoping somone with more experience than me would try to give you
an answer. But I can give my .02 cents. I would think it would pretty
difficult to know what is going on without a DTI. (dial test indicator)
It does sound like the spindle is bent. But where? I'm not really
familiar with the lot 3 and 4 lathe spindles but I don't think they are
as hard as the B-6. I wonder if someone hoisted the lathe from the cone
pulley, would that bend the spindle? It seems to me that it may if the
lathe was bolted to a bench. If you indicate off the cone while
rotating the spindle do you get any reading? If so, is it opposite the
spindle nose reading? Maybe you could remove the cone pulley and
indicate off the spindle between the bearings. If it is bent between
the journals, maybe it could be straightened.
I don't think you will want to put too much money in your lathe. They
are a pain to use even when they run correctly.... (compared to a South
Bend with a QC gear box)
There is another option.. If you just want to use the chuck, not
collets. You could remove the back plate from the chuck, true it up on
the spindle, then remount the chuck. That might get you by.
good luck, jim
|
Why not just use a four jaw chuck. Lots of people use
them rather than three jaws because of the greater
accuracy. Gene
--- toolslinger1973 <toolslinger@...>
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Better checkup... Set the back of a tool near the
theads, and played
with feeler gauges. Looks like it wobbles by around
.004".
Clearly that sucks.
So the question is, what do I do? Getting a new
spindle machined
would seem to be prohibitive. I can probably buy
something usable
for less, and sell off whatever people need from
this unit to help
someone else to offset the cost of something else...
I've got no real sentimental value to the machine,
or I would get a
new spindle made...
Thoughts?
|
Thanks for the thoughts Jim. I confirmed the .004" wobble out on the nose of the spindle with a dial indicator pressing against .002 feeler stock so it wouldn't drop in a thread... Then I tried the DTI on the cone, and that seems ok, right around .001 out. I wouldn't really expect the cone to be perfect, and it wasn't opposite the wobble on the nose. So I'd guess that someone either hoisted on the chuck, or something fell on the chuck at some point... I guess some of you guys are gonna end up with parts, and chucks from mine... Sadly I don't think I'm up to doing a lot of truing of face plates and chuck mounts at this point. I'd probably have an aneurysm trying to figure it all out... I really need to learn to use a lathe before I have to deal with repairing one... Now if I could convince myself to pull the trigger on a nice Harrison I stumbled across the other day, I'd be set... Oh to have more money... Thanks! Tim --- In daltonlathes@..., "Jim Bonner" <bogyjim@...> wrote:
I was hoping somone with more experience than me would try to give
you an answer. But I can give my .02 cents. I would think it would pretty difficult to know what is going on without a DTI. (dial test indicator) It does sound like the spindle is bent. But where? I'm not really
familiar with the lot 3 and 4 lathe spindles but I don't think they are as hard as the B-6. I wonder if someone hoisted the lathe from the cone pulley, would that bend the spindle? It seems to me that it may if the lathe was bolted to a bench. If you indicate off the cone while
rotating the spindle do you get any reading? If so, is it opposite the spindle nose reading? Maybe you could remove the cone pulley and
indicate off the spindle between the bearings. If it is bent between the journals, maybe it could be straightened.
I don't think you will want to put too much money in your lathe. They are a pain to use even when they run correctly.... (compared to a South Bend with a QC gear box)
There is another option.. If you just want to use the chuck, not
collets. You could remove the back plate from the chuck, true it up on the spindle, then remount the chuck. That might get you by.
good luck, jim
|
Hi Tool slinger
?
Now if you are only going to use a chuck on your
Dalton all is not lost.? OK if you take the back plate off your chuck and
put it on the spindle then re-cut the face that the chuck seats up
against.? Now it will not care if the spindle is bent 1/16 of an inch as
the chuck will run true to the rotating axis of the lathe spindle.? Now if
your going to use a center thats OK to as you will only have to dress the taper
when you put it in the spindle so again it is running true to the rotating axis
of the spindle.?
?
I have fifteen Daltons and if on of them ran with
.001 tir or total indicated run out I would be happy.? Remember the Lot 4
and? 5 lathes were home shop fare not industrial tools meant for high
accuracy work.? The Lot 6 and 8 lathes were much more accurate as they had
a precision hardened and ground all over spindle and they run within .0005 to
.001.? Remember the time frame when these machines were built as most of
the machinist only had inside and outside dividing calipers to fit things.?
There were very few really good measuring tools back then.? Even the best
hand measuring tools would only read to .001.
?
Turk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 12:01
PM
Subject: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell
me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Thanks for the thoughts Jim. I confirmed the .004" wobble out on the
nose of the spindle with a dial indicator pressing against .002
feeler
stock so it wouldn't drop in a thread... Then I tried the DTI
on the cone,
and that seems ok, right around .001 out. I wouldn't
really expect the
cone to be perfect, and it wasn't opposite the
wobble on the nose. So I'd
guess that someone either hoisted on the
chuck, or something fell on the
chuck at some point...
I guess some of you guys are gonna end up with
parts, and chucks from
mine... Sadly I don't think I'm up to doing a lot
of truing of face
plates and chuck mounts at this point. I'd probably have
an aneurysm
trying to figure it all out... I really need to learn to use a
lathe
before I have to deal with repairing one...
Now if I could
convince myself to pull the trigger on a nice Harrison
I stumbled across
the other day, I'd be set... Oh to have more
money...
Thanks!
Tim
--- In daltonlathes@yahoogroups.com,
"Jim Bonner" > wrote:
>
> I was hoping
somone with more experience than me would try to give
you
> an
answer. But I can give my .02 cents. I would think it would
pretty
> difficult to know what is going on without a DTI. (dial test
indicator)
> It does sound like the spindle is bent. But where? I'm
not really
> familiar with the lot 3 and 4 lathe spindles but I don't
think they
are
> as hard as the B-6. I wonder if someone hoisted
the lathe from the
cone
> pulley, would that bend the spindle? It
seems to me that it may if
the
> lathe was bolted to a bench. If
you indicate off the cone while
> rotating the spindle do you get any
reading? If so, is it opposite
the
> spindle nose reading? Maybe
you could remove the cone pulley and
> indicate off the spindle between
the bearings. If it is bent
between
> the journals, maybe it could
be straightened.
>
> I don't think you will want to put too much
money in your lathe.
They
> are a pain to use even when they run
correctly.... (compared to a
South
> Bend with a QC gear
box)
>
> There is another option.. If you just want to use the
chuck, not
> collets. You could remove the back plate from the chuck,
true it
up on
> the spindle, then remount the chuck. That might get
you by.
>
> good luck, jim
>
|
I had the same problem. That's why I got mine for free. Anyway, start by facing it off. As with all of this advice just remove the absolute minimum. Then turn down the tips of the threads. Surprisingly, the strength of the treads depends very little on the apex. Besides, We're only talking four thou. The treads themselves are a strange pitch on Daltons but I'm sure you can find some arrangement of gears to get really close. If you use collets you will have to try to bore a new taper which I tried but have put off until I get a more ridged boring bar. Understand that some of this may be difficult since the spindle is hard but I found that a new carbide cutter worked quite well. Lots of oil and don't rush. When the adapter plate is remounted it will have to be faced again but that is inevitable for any adapter plate. You will be surprised how square it already is since facing the spindle will get it awfully close. The only downside to doing this is the adapter plate is now dedicated to your machine only. I've never known of one that is, but everyone feels that this needs to be pointed out. Personally, I over sized the bolt holes and simply bonk the chuck around until it's centered. With old fashioned patience it can get within four thousands repeatably which is darned good to me. I've read of machinists who claim zero tolerance but don't ask them to check it more than once. At least not an old machine, I can't speak for million dollar lathes built recently. You have nothing to loose. I'm sure you'll be surprised how well it goes. Malcolm Bryant. From: "toolslinger1973" <toolslinger@...>
Reply-To: daltonlathes@...
To: daltonlathes@...
Subject: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:21:59 -0000
Better checkup... Set the back of a tool near the theads, and played
with feeler gauges. Looks like it wobbles by around .004".
Clearly that sucks.
So the question is, what do I do? Getting a new spindle machined
would seem to be prohibitive. I can probably buy something usable
for less, and sell off whatever people need from this unit to help
someone else to offset the cost of something else...
I've got no real sentimental value to the machine, or I would get a
new spindle made...
Thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get intro-rate 4.625%*
|
Let me know if you wind up parting it out since I need a new tailstock. No big deal but it would be nice. Mine is a B6.( lot 6,#161) Malcolm Bryant. From: "toolslinger1973" <toolslinger@...>
Reply-To: daltonlathes@...
To: daltonlathes@...
Subject: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:01:52 -0000
Thanks for the thoughts Jim. I confirmed the .004" wobble out on the
nose of the spindle with a dial indicator pressing against .002
feeler stock so it wouldn't drop in a thread... Then I tried the DTI
on the cone, and that seems ok, right around .001 out. I wouldn't
really expect the cone to be perfect, and it wasn't opposite the
wobble on the nose. So I'd guess that someone either hoisted on the
chuck, or something fell on the chuck at some point...
I guess some of you guys are gonna end up with parts, and chucks from
mine... Sadly I don't think I'm up to doing a lot of truing of face
plates and chuck mounts at this point. I'd probably have an aneurysm
trying to figure it all out... I really need to learn to use a lathe
before I have to deal with repairing one...
Now if I could convince myself to pull the trigger on a nice Harrison
I stumbled across the other day, I'd be set... Oh to have more
money...
Thanks!
Tim
--- In daltonlathes@..., "Jim Bonner" <bogyjim@...> wrote:
I was hoping somone with more experience than me would try to give
you
an answer. But I can give my .02 cents. I would think it would pretty
difficult to know what is going on without a DTI. (dial test indicator)
It does sound like the spindle is bent. But where? I'm not really
familiar with the lot 3 and 4 lathe spindles but I don't think they are
as hard as the B-6. I wonder if someone hoisted the lathe from the cone
pulley, would that bend the spindle? It seems to me that it may if the
lathe was bolted to a bench. If you indicate off the cone while
rotating the spindle do you get any reading? If so, is it opposite the
spindle nose reading? Maybe you could remove the cone pulley and
indicate off the spindle between the bearings. If it is bent between
the journals, maybe it could be straightened.
I don't think you will want to put too much money in your lathe. They
are a pain to use even when they run correctly.... (compared to a South
Bend with a QC gear box)
There is another option.. If you just want to use the chuck, not
collets. You could remove the back plate from the chuck, true it up on
the spindle, then remount the chuck. That might get you by.
good luck, jim
_________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
|
Hi Malcolm
?
Say you need to know that there are only six Lot 6
lathes known of with yours.? The Lot 6 tail stock is a lot bigger than a
lot 2 3 4 and 5.? Even the Lot 8 9 inch would be to tall if we ever find
one.
?
Now I do have a lot of Lot 4 parts that can be used
on a Lot 2 3 and 5 so you guys let me know what you need.
?
Turk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 5:32
PM
Subject: RE: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone
tell me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Let me know if you wind up parting it out since I need a new tailstock. No
big deal but it would be nice. Mine is a B6.( lot 6,#161) Malcolm
Bryant.
>From: "toolslinger1973" <toolslinger@mindspring.com>
>Reply-To:
daltonlathes@yahoogroups.com
>To:
daltonlathes@yahoogroups.com
>Subject:
[daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell me I'm not compleatly screwed...
>Date:
Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:01:52 -0000
>
>Thanks for the thoughts Jim. I
confirmed the .004" wobble out on the
>nose of the spindle with a dial
indicator pressing against .002
>feeler stock so it wouldn't drop in a
thread... Then I tried the DTI
>on the cone, and that seems ok, right
around .001 out. I wouldn't
>really expect the cone to be perfect, and
it wasn't opposite the
>wobble on the nose. So I'd guess that someone
either hoisted on the
>chuck, or something fell on the chuck at some
point...
>I guess some of you guys are gonna end up with parts, and
chucks from
>mine... Sadly I don't think I'm up to doing a lot of truing
of face
>plates and chuck mounts at this point. I'd probably have an
aneurysm
>trying to figure it all out... I really need to learn to use a
lathe
>before I have to deal with repairing one...
>
>Now if
I could convince myself to pull the trigger on a nice Harrison
>I
stumbled across the other day, I'd be set... Oh to have
more
>money...
>Thanks!
>Tim
>
>--- In daltonlathes@yahoogroups.com,
"Jim Bonner" > wrote:
> >
> > I was
hoping somone with more experience than me would try to
give
>you
> > an answer. But I can give my .02 cents. I would
think it would
>pretty
> > difficult to know what is going on
without a DTI. (dial test
>indicator)
> > It does sound like
the spindle is bent. But where? I'm not really
> > familiar with the
lot 3 and 4 lathe spindles but I don't think they
>are
> > as
hard as the B-6. I wonder if someone hoisted the lathe from
the
>cone
> > pulley, would that bend the spindle? It seems to
me that it may if
>the
> > lathe was bolted to a bench. If you
indicate off the cone while
> > rotating the spindle do you get any
reading? If so, is it opposite
>the
> > spindle nose reading?
Maybe you could remove the cone pulley and
> > indicate off the
spindle between the bearings. If it is bent
>between
> > the
journals, maybe it could be straightened.
> >
> > I don't
think you will want to put too much money in your lathe.
>They
>
> are a pain to use even when they run correctly.... (compared to
a
>South
> > Bend with a QC gear box)
> >
> >
There is another option.. If you just want to use the chuck, not
> >
collets. You could remove the back plate from the chuck, true it
>up
on
> > the spindle, then remount the chuck. That might get you
by.
> >
> > good luck, jim
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
Exercise
your brain! Try Flexicon.
|
I wonder why there is so few. It seems like a very rigid machine where so many others of that era were rather spindly(sic.). The machine market is a very strange place. Malcolm Bryant From: "Dennis Turk" <dennis.turk2@...>
Reply-To: daltonlathes@...
To: <daltonlathes@...>
Subject: Re: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:52:50 -0700
Hi Malcolm
Say you need to know that there are only six Lot 6 lathes known of with yours. The Lot 6 tail stock is a lot bigger than a lot 2 3 4 and 5. Even the Lot 8 9 inch would be to tall if we ever find one.
Now I do have a lot of Lot 4 parts that can be used on a Lot 2 3 and 5 so you guys let me know what you need.
Turk
----- Original Message -----
From: malcolm Bryant
To: daltonlathes@...
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Let me know if you wind up parting it out since I need a new tailstock. No
big deal but it would be nice. Mine is a B6.( lot 6,#161) Malcolm Bryant.
>From: "toolslinger1973" <toolslinger@...>
>Reply-To: daltonlathes@...
>To: daltonlathes@...
>Subject: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell me I'm not compleatly
screwed...
>Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:01:52 -0000
>
>Thanks for the thoughts Jim. I confirmed the .004" wobble out on the
>nose of the spindle with a dial indicator pressing against .002
>feeler stock so it wouldn't drop in a thread... Then I tried the DTI
>on the cone, and that seems ok, right around .001 out. I wouldn't
>really expect the cone to be perfect, and it wasn't opposite the
>wobble on the nose. So I'd guess that someone either hoisted on the
>chuck, or something fell on the chuck at some point...
>I guess some of you guys are gonna end up with parts, and chucks from
>mine... Sadly I don't think I'm up to doing a lot of truing of face
>plates and chuck mounts at this point. I'd probably have an aneurysm
>trying to figure it all out... I really need to learn to use a lathe
>before I have to deal with repairing one...
>
>Now if I could convince myself to pull the trigger on a nice Harrison
>I stumbled across the other day, I'd be set... Oh to have more
>money...
>Thanks!
>Tim
>
>--- In daltonlathes@..., "Jim Bonner" <bogyjim@...> wrote:
> >
> > I was hoping somone with more experience than me would try to give
>you
> > an answer. But I can give my .02 cents. I would think it would
>pretty
> > difficult to know what is going on without a DTI. (dial test
>indicator)
> > It does sound like the spindle is bent. But where? I'm not really
> > familiar with the lot 3 and 4 lathe spindles but I don't think they
>are
> > as hard as the B-6. I wonder if someone hoisted the lathe from the
>cone
> > pulley, would that bend the spindle? It seems to me that it may if
>the
> > lathe was bolted to a bench. If you indicate off the cone while
> > rotating the spindle do you get any reading? If so, is it opposite
>the
> > spindle nose reading? Maybe you could remove the cone pulley and
> > indicate off the spindle between the bearings. If it is bent
>between
> > the journals, maybe it could be straightened.
> >
> > I don't think you will want to put too much money in your lathe.
>They
> > are a pain to use even when they run correctly.... (compared to a
>South
> > Bend with a QC gear box)
> >
> > There is another option.. If you just want to use the chuck, not
> > collets. You could remove the back plate from the chuck, true it
>up on
> > the spindle, then remount the chuck. That might get you by.
> >
> > good luck, jim
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
_________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment
|
Ok... Sorry about that panic moment there... I'm still getting a
handle on this whole lathe concept... So I dressed the mounting
plate, and remounted my 4 jaw scroll chuck (now there's a pretty
hateful item. Must find an independent) beat it around a bit with it
chucked on to a 1/2" hardened drill bit, and got down to 0.0015 TIR.
That'll do just fine for me. Can't tell about repeatability as I
didn't really want to pull it after I got it there as I'm in the
midst of boring out a Jacobs 20N drill chuck. (just the bad mounting
taper, not the chuck itself)
So the next question is, does anyone sell mounting or drive plate
with the thread in them already for our quirky antiques? I know I
could buy one, and bore/thread it myself, but that's a little beyond
my ability currently. (threading that is, I can bore ok) I've only
got the one plate my 4 jaw is on, and I want to mount a 3 jaw I have,
plus I want a drive plate for if I get my spindle taper cleaned up
and use centers.
Oh, and if anyone else was bidding on that 3 jaw chuck that just sold
on Ebay, it isn't quite as it seemed... It's threaded, but they
threaded the chuck itself, and didn't do a great job of it... Should
be fine when I get a back plate... You live, you learn...
Thanks for the reality check Dennis!
-Tim
|
Hi Tim
?
?
Ya I am dturkcars so I am the guy that got most of
the 9 inch Dalton stuff that was sold.?? I passed on the three jaw
just because of what you found.
?
Now Tim the spindle on a lot 6 is 1 7/8 - 8 and
that is almost the same threaded nose as the early 13 inch SB and there were
some heavy ten SB lathes with this spindle nose.? Its known as the 11/16
collet lathe spindle.? That means you can use 4C collets on your lot
6.
?
Every once in a wile a SB back plate shows up but
as of now I dont know of any after market back plates that will fit your
spindle.? even a SB the registration counter bore is to large as the Dalton
registration shoulder is the same size as the thread and SB made theirs
larger.
?
One other thing.? I do have most of a set of
Lot 6 change gears though not all of them are Dalton some are SB or
Boston.? If you need any gears let me know.? Also any of you other Lot
6 owners let me know if your missing any.?
?
Also Rob Libby if you are on this list check in
with me as I think the Lot 9 end door will fit your lathe.? I only got the
door and not the little fixed gear guard that was mounted at the top of the head
stock.
?
Turk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:01
AM
Subject: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell
me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Ok... Sorry about that panic moment there... I'm still getting a
handle
on this whole lathe concept... So I dressed the mounting
plate, and
remounted my 4 jaw scroll chuck (now there's a pretty
hateful item. Must
find an independent) beat it around a bit with it
chucked on to a 1/2"
hardened drill bit, and got down to 0.0015 TIR.
That'll do just fine for
me. Can't tell about repeatability as I
didn't really want to pull it
after I got it there as I'm in the
midst of boring out a Jacobs 20N drill
chuck. (just the bad mounting
taper, not the chuck itself)
So the
next question is, does anyone sell mounting or drive plate
with the thread
in them already for our quirky antiques? I know I
could buy one, and
bore/thread it myself, but that's a little beyond
my ability currently.
(threading that is, I can bore ok) I've only
got the one plate my 4 jaw is
on, and I want to mount a 3 jaw I have,
plus I want a drive plate for if I
get my spindle taper cleaned up
and use centers.
Oh, and if anyone
else was bidding on that 3 jaw chuck that just sold
on Ebay, it isn't
quite as it seemed... It's threaded, but they
threaded the chuck itself,
and didn't do a great job of it... Should
be fine when I get a back
plate... You live, you learn...
Thanks for the reality check
Dennis!
-Tim
|
Hmmm... Well if I had a Lot 6, I'd probably be in better shape... But
in reality, I've got a Lot 3, so I've got the 1-1/4" spindle. I
imagine I'll stumble across what I need eventually, or I'll break down
and take a blank back plate to a machinist...
|
Well your in luck as the last time I was set up to
thread a bunch of back plates I threaded a chuck back plate that I had on
hand.? Ready to go it is.
?
Turk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:24
AM
Subject: [daltonlathes] Re: Someone tell
me I'm not compleatly screwed...
Hmmm... Well if I had a Lot 6, I'd probably be in better shape... But
in reality, I've got a Lot 3, so I've got the 1-1/4" spindle. I
imagine I'll stumble across what I need eventually, or I'll break down
and take a blank back plate to a machinist...
|
