New Member
|
Hi everyone, being new to your Group I better introduce myself, I’m Bryan, I live in the UK and have recently acquired a Dalton Lathe, it’s a “Lot 2” number 23, it’s a very small Lathe, the Bed is only 20” long, centre to centre about 12” if I’m measuring it correctly, centre of the Chuck to the Bed 3 ?”, see photo of Lathe as attached. Being an old Lathe there is some play in the Cross Slide Feed which I was going to ask for guidance on but it might be better to read through some of the Messages on this Topic on your Forum first.? ? |
|
Hi Bryan You have one of the very early lathes we see.? In the last six months three of these very early Lot 2 lathes have shown up yours by looking at the picture is the most complete and original. OK to your questions.? Number one the cross feed play can be a lot of end play in the lead screw.? Push the handle in and out and tell us how much play you have.? Also the cross feed nut on all Daltons were drilled and tapped in place using some special tools so nuts are not interchangeable A new must be made up bolted to the cross slide then with the lead screw removed but the screw in bushing in place in the saddle and the gibs tighten up on the cross slide so it will not move? then using a long center drill is used to start the hole in the nut.? Next a tap drill that is very long is used to drill the nut then a special tap is then passed through the saddle and the nut is tapped.? Even the American Hardinge lathe cross slide nut is made this way.? This is the only way to guarantee that the acme thread in the nut is located were its suppose to be.? I have made up these three tools so new nuts can be tapped.? Give us the overall length of the bed as it should be 30 inches not 20.?? Not sure why you do not have a micrometer thimble on the cross feed screw as all Dalton lathes were so equipped.? ?It is a very small dial and the line graduations on the dial ring are .004 of an inch. I will look at your other three post and see if I can answer any more of your questions. Dennis
On Monday, April 26, 2021, 05:01:24 PM PDT, bryanalton via groups.io <bryanalton@...> wrote:
Hi everyone, being new to your Group I better introduce myself, I’m Bryan, I live in the UK and have recently acquired a Dalton Lathe, it’s a “Lot 2” number 23, it’s a very small Lathe, the Bed is only 20” long, centre to centre about 12” if I’m measuring it correctly, centre of the Chuck to the Bed 3 ?”, see photo of Lathe as attached. Being an old Lathe there is some play in the Cross Slide Feed which I was going to ask for guidance on but it might be better to read through some of the Messages on this Topic on your Forum first.? ? |
|
Dennis,
? ? ? ? ? ?first of All I'd like to apologise for sending 3 messages that's me changing my mind about introducing myself to the group. Anyway pushing the handle in and out there is about 2 or 3 thou, I need a dial gauge to measure it, but it's a full 1 1/4 turns before the handle actuates or moves the slide or is that what you meant. The top or tool slide handle has about 2 or 3 though play, but it's about 3/4 turn before it moves the slide. You are correct the Lathe bed is 30", I was measure the actual lathe bed distance without the headstock with my 20", I have only a limited mechanical background, school and my first apprenticeship. Are these things I could rectify even with a limited mechanical/lathes background but a very enthusiastic aptitude to learn. Regards Bryan |
|
First of Bryan want to let you know I love you Brits.? The way you guys do things over there always amazes me.? You Brits do things in the most god offal backward way using some of the damndest machines.? Now don't get offended here OK:-))))? I have been to the UK spent a month there going around your great country riding on a GloBus tour. Well three weeks anyway the last week my wife and I spent in Wales guessed of a great? guy Robert Jackson and his wife who I met on the internet.? You see Bryan back in the early 00's I was restoring a Drummond M and needed a lot of parts that were missing.? I found everything I needed on the British eBay and the Drummond internet group over there scurried around picking up all my treasures and they all ended up in Milksham.? Then Alan Wheatly from Wales drove down and picked up all the parts hauled them back to Wales built a crate and got them on a ship to the West coast of the US.? Don't ask how much that cost please.? In all the Drummond parts I picked up most I did not need so they were given to guys in the UK that needed them for their lathes.? This all took about a year and was great fun.? When we toured around the UK almost ever night when we stop for the evening I would meet up with one or two of these guys so many of them I got to actually meet.? The best one was not one that actually helped me but I got to spend an evening with Tony Griffith of the Lathes UK web site owner and if you read all the history on his Dalton section I? wrote all that history for him.? Also many of my restorations are featured on his site.? Check out the South Bend site and you will find a couple of lathes that Tony called an essay.? These are all machines I? have plus many many more. So to your great looking little six inch Dalton Lot 2 and by the way yours is the only one left with both back gear guards and the little oil caps for the spindle bearing lube tubes. These are always missing.? The amount of end play your seeing in your cross slide amounts to about .010 of free rotating play per .001 of end play.? So lets say you have .010 end play that would amount to about .100 of rotational play.? Or very close.? The only way to reduce end play is to shim between the bushing that is screwed into the saddle and the dial ring or what ever you have as a thrust element on your cross slide lead screw.? Same goes for the top slide. Dalton never did put a dial ring on the top slide on there early lathes.? Later ones do have one.? Many lathes built before 1930 did not have a dial ring on the top slide or tool slide. Not sure what you Brits call it.? The other thing you will need to do is acquire some Acme thread stock to replace your worn out lead screw.? Now don't get excited here please we will help.? For one you will need to marry the new thread to your old cross slide lead screw shaft.? Again not a big job but will require you to use a different lathe if you can find one to use.? By the way the thread is 7/16 - 10 left hand Acme.? I do have two Lot 2 parts lathes so will have a look and see if I? have any usable parts for you.? A better nut screw dial ring or what ells I can find. By the way if you go on Tony's site and look at Drummond M lathes you will find mine there in photos.? I had most of my restored machines on display at my business up till a few weeks ago.? As I have sold the business the new owner wanted them all out of the building so have hauled 28 restored machines back home.? Some brands you probably have never heard of. One of the problems with Lot 2 lathes Bryan is they share no parts with later lathes so were kind of stuck there.? The Lot 3 used the bed early on but changed later but the saddle cross slide top slide are all unique to your Lot 2 as is the head stock tail stock and guards including the end door.? The only thing that is shared with later lathes is the back gears.?? I find it interesting that we have almost as many Lot 2 lathes in the UK as we have here in the US.? In all the Dalton lathes I have at least one examples of every one restored for display except a Lot 2 as the two I have were not restorable they were just to badly damaged or worn.? One in fact came from Holland and had all the signs of being damaged by gun fire or shell fragments like maybe a hand grenade went off close by.? Bet that lathe could tell a lot of stories seeing that it survived two world wars as yours has.? Bet your lathe could tell stories about making parts for items for WW I but bet it made parts for Spitfires in WW II. Wouldn't you like to know all the history of what your little 108 year old lathe could tell.? Its amazing to me that your lathe so old has survived in what I consider such fine condition so treat it with respect it has earned it:-))))?? Bryan here are two pictures.? One of what my Drummond looked like when I found it in a basement of an old NY apartment building and what it looks like today with the help of all the great guys in England. Dennis
On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 06:57:02 AM PDT, bryanalton via groups.io <bryanalton@...> wrote:
Dennis, ? ? ? ? ? ?first of All I'd like to apologise for sending 3 messages that's me changing my mind about introducing myself to the group. Anyway pushing the handle in and out there is about 2 or 3 thou, I need a dial gauge to measure it, but it's a full 1 1/4 turns before the handle actuates or moves the slide or is that what you meant. The top or tool slide handle has about 2 or 3 though play, but it's about 3/4 turn before it moves the slide. You are correct the Lathe bed is 30", I was measure the actual lathe bed distance without the headstock with my 20", I have only a limited mechanical background, school and my first apprenticeship. Are these things I could rectify even with a limited mechanical/lathes background but a very enthusiastic aptitude to learn. Regards Bryan |
|
Dennis,
? ? ? ? ? ? ?I take it the majority of the work can be done on my Lathe, the Dalton, just the marrying up bits on another Lathe, I have someone who I think will help either by letting me use his Lathe or if not he will do that bit for me. I do have most of (I think) the original Gear cutting gears, 8 in total, should there be 10, and I have a idler gear. I have had a look at some of the sites and was surprised to find some well known Lathes are Clones of others, I previously thought it was just the Far East that produced Clones. Bryan |
|
Good Morning Bryan or should I say good evening to you:-)))) (I think were 12 hours apart) OK as to change gears.? There are a total of 15 gears that would have originally came with your lathe.? Check the file section as I think we have a list of gears for the different lathes.? You set would be the same set used on the Lot 3 4 and 5 lathes.? By the way these are 20 pitch gears or tooth size.? Have not looked to see if all the files we had were moved from the old Yahoo site when Dan Lingshide our moderator switched us over to the IO site.? Dan and his brother Glen also live hear in Oregon were I do. Dan South of me about 30 minutes and Glen over on the North coast at a place called Tillamook.? We have a lot of Indian names here in the Northwest.? Sniquamish Issaqua Pualip and names like that. As to a manual on your lathe we have never found one.? ?One of the best manuals for these old lathes is the South Bend How to run a Lathe book.? Atlas also published a general manual for there lathes.? We have only found a few pieces of original sales literature and one sales booklet for the Lot 6 lathe.? Other than a few other Dalton documents we have very little history. The best history we got was by accident.? Some years ago Andy Sargent of Cincinnati was contacted by a lady named Gay Howard.? This was back in 2000.? As it turned out Gay was poking around the internet and came across Andy's web site Old Iron dot com.? Andy with my help had set up a little Dalton history on his web site as Andy's Dalton was the second one that I found after I was given a lot 4 in 1998.?? Gay as it turned out had been married before and her first marriage was to Hubert Dalton Peck the nephew of old Hubert Dalton owner of Dalton Mfg.? Back in the late sixties she compiled a biography of Hubert Dalton and in that biography was a ton of information about the Dalton lathe company as well as all the other companies that Hubert owned. Hubert Dalton immigrated from England in 1904 and his sister Charlene came with him.? Hubert never had any kids though he was married three times but his sister had to sons and one of the sons was the father of Hubert Dalton Peck Gays first husband.?? So you see Bryan your lathe was designed and built by an old Englishman:-)))))? A bit of other history is Hubert and another guy had started a car company back in 1906 or 7 and in 1909 they had the first prototype running and then Hubert became very sick and almost died.? He survived but it was now 1911 and he figured his car company was not going to work out so he sold it.? Oh and the first car became the very first Chevy.? The engine that Hubert designed was an overhead valve four cylinder and Chevy used that engine up to 1929 then they re-designed it into the six cylinder we know today. So in 1912 Hubert founded the Dalton Mfg company and in early 1913 your lathe was the first product.? So we have serial number 2 number 4 your number 23 Jim Veres has number 25 and I have number 36.? Almost all of them have something different about them.? In late 1913 the Lot 2 was dropped and they then built the Lot 3 that was similar to yours but now would swing 7 1/4 inches were as yours is a 6 inch swing lathe. Then in early or middle of 1914 the lot 3 was dropped and the Lot 4 went into production and stayed in production till 1929.? About the only thing that was used from?your lathe on the later ones was the change gears nothing ells so your lathe is unique to all other later model lathes. Sorry for talking so much Bryan but thought you might like to know the English roots of your lathe. The picture is of my Lot 2 #36 Dennis.
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 04:46:51 AM PDT, bryanalton via groups.io <bryanalton@...> wrote:
Dennis, ? ? ? ? ? ? forgot to say, you've previously informed me how my Lathe is just about all original, I'm hoping the Gear set with it are too (gear cutting), I could do with an Owners Manual to confirm what I have in my possession.? Bryan |
|
Hi Bart
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 08:13:40 AM PDT, Grey Pilgrim <pilgrim23@...> wrote:
Thank you Dennis. ?This just got printed out and put in my Dalton Lathe folder :)
|
|
Dennis,
? ? ? ? ? don't apologise for talking, I am enjoying the conversation, you've made me feel I've acquired something special with the Dalton Lathe, I just hope i can continue to give it the service it deserves and hopefully restore it more to it's former self. Incidentally I found a number of pdf files of the South Bend book(s) you recommended. With regards to the missing Gear cutting gears now amounting to 7 number I am missing, I might have pulled in a few favours and had a couple cut for me by friends, 7 might be a bit much so I'll have to decide on which ones I would definitely use rather than try to complete the set.? Bryan |
Bryan Alton
Dennis Turk
