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Need a refresher on threading with Dalton 6 B-4

 

Hi!? It's been a few years since I did any threading. I recall the fundamentals, like grinding the tool to 60 degrees, zero rake, center of the work and squared with it.? I have all the quick-change gears and know how to set them up.? What I'm particularly rusty on is marking the chuck, the lead screw(?), and the bed under the carriage.? If I recall, every time i cut a thread, I would pull out the tool with the cross-feed, pull it back to a certain mark on the bed or on the screw, line up the mark on the chuck with something or other, then do something with the crossfeed and compound (I believe the crossfeed goes back to the same position, while the compound is set to 30 or 60 degrees, and goes in a certain distance with each cut).? As you can see, my memory of this is really, really faulty.? Help please!
 

Hi Joe
do you have a thread chasing dial on your lathe?
Larry


On Tuesday, June 29, 2021, 5:00:12 PM EDT, Joseph Difusco via groups.io <josephdfco@...> wrote:


Hi!? It's been a few years since I did any threading. I recall the fundamentals, like grinding the tool to 60 degrees, zero rake, center of the work and squared with it.? I have all the quick-change gears and know how to set them up.? What I'm particularly rusty on is marking the chuck, the lead screw(?), and the bed under the carriage.? If I recall, every time i cut a thread, I would pull out the tool with the cross-feed, pull it back to a certain mark on the bed or on the screw, line up the mark on the chuck with something or other, then do something with the crossfeed and compound (I believe the crossfeed goes back to the same position, while the compound is set to 30 or 60 degrees, and goes in a certain distance with each cut).? As you can see, my memory of this is really, really faulty.? Help please!

 

No, that was something I wanted to do some time ago.? Actually, I'd like to do that, and a decent DRO for the cross slide and compound.
 

Hello! Can someone help with this?
 

With what, Joe?
L

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 3:42:30 PM EDT, Joseph Difusco via groups.io <josephdfco@...> wrote:


Hello! Can someone help with this?

 

I think Joe was asking you if you had a thread chasing dial on your Dalton. Might be troublesome to cut threads without it, since it allows the operator to begin the next thread cut? to be at the same longitudinal position the last one was cut at.?

Dan
 

With setting up the machine for threading. Specifically, with marking the chuck, bed, etc, so that after making a cut, I can get set up again for making another cut. I remember how to set up the threading tool (I'm also going to be doing some inside threads in 4130 1.5" tube, using a steady-rest), setting the compound (is it 30 or 60 degrees?), hand-turning everything back, then going back to where the cross-slide was, but coming in on the compound by a certain distance (how is that best determined?) locking the cross-nut once everything is realigned, and going again until the tool reaches the relief cut. I could probably do this on a newer gear-head with a dial pretty easily, but I just can't remember how it all goes with this. Thanks!
Glen Linscheid
 

First thing, if the thread you want to cut is divisible by 2 or 4 (even numbers) make a test scratch on a piece of dowel or aluminum round you have as scrap, the pull the cross slide out so the tool isn't touching and crank the carriage back to the start, and drop the half nuts anywhere. If it tracks do it again as many times as you need to to feel comfortable that it's not going to cross thread. On several of my lathes I can drop the half nuts on any number or mark, but if I do that between marks it will go right down the center of the thread.
?Quick answer is reverse the lathe after you clear the tool tip, leave the half nuts engaged just like we do with an inch series lead screw cutting metric threads.
Watch this;
Or this;

?Dennis must have a drawing for the ones he made up, they are exceedingly simple and all you need to find is a small gear with the correct number of teeth and which fits the lead screws threads.
?I might be persuaded to make up ten or twenty, though I'm not sure they'd look as nice as Dennis's. Make sure your apron has a tapped hole for one right at the RH end of the apron.


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 2:46 PM Joseph Difusco via <josephdfco=[email protected]> wrote:
With setting up the machine for threading. Specifically, with marking the chuck, bed, etc, so that after making a cut, I can get set up again for making another cut. I remember how to set up the threading tool (I'm also going to be doing some inside threads in 4130 1.5" tube, using a steady-rest), setting the compound (is it 30 or 60 degrees?), hand-turning everything back, then going back to where the cross-slide was, but coming in on the compound by a certain distance (how is that best determined?) locking the cross-nut once everything is realigned, and going again until the tool reaches the relief cut. I could probably do this on a newer gear-head with a dial pretty easily, but I just can't remember how it all goes with this. Thanks!

Glen Linscheid
 

BTW, if you are cutting small threads under 14 TPI or so it works well to feed out directly, that is, without the compound set at 29 degrees. I've used the 29 degree method all my life but have made good threads by infeeding.
?When you get up into bigger threads, like 6 TPI or 4 TPI the cutting pressures may far exceed the drag of the carriage and the tool can move forward as it squeezes out all lash in the train, and that'[s where 29 degrees is really helpful.

?Outside threads have the back of the compound set 29 degrees right rear to left front, so that as the flank of the leadscrew leading edges are pushing the carriage to the toward the left the left hand cutting edge of the tool does most of the cutting and the back, or RH edge, just scrapes the back side.
?When ID threading set the compound the opposite way with the angle going from left front to right rear, and all for the same reason, loading the lash outb of the lead screw.
?Some guys have lathes with preloaded balls screws who never have that problem.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 6:10 PM Glen Linscheid via <partsproduction=[email protected]> wrote:
First thing, if the thread you want to cut is divisible by 2 or 4 (even numbers) make a test scratch on a piece of dowel or aluminum round you have as scrap, the pull the cross slide out so the tool isn't touching and crank the carriage back to the start, and drop the half nuts anywhere. If it tracks do it again as many times as you need to to feel comfortable that it's not going to cross thread. On several of my lathes I can drop the half nuts on any number or mark, but if I do that between marks it will go right down the center of the thread.
?Quick answer is reverse the lathe after you clear the tool tip, leave the half nuts engaged just like we do with an inch series lead screw cutting metric threads.
Watch this;
Or this;

?Dennis must have a drawing for the ones he made up, they are exceedingly simple and all you need to find is a small gear with the correct number of teeth and which fits the lead screws threads.
?I might be persuaded to make up ten or twenty, though I'm not sure they'd look as nice as Dennis's. Make sure your apron has a tapped hole for one right at the RH end of the apron.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 2:46 PM Joseph Difusco via <josephdfco=[email protected]> wrote:
With setting up the machine for threading. Specifically, with marking the chuck, bed, etc, so that after making a cut, I can get set up again for making another cut. I remember how to set up the threading tool (I'm also going to be doing some inside threads in 4130 1.5" tube, using a steady-rest), setting the compound (is it 30 or 60 degrees?), hand-turning everything back, then going back to where the cross-slide was, but coming in on the compound by a certain distance (how is that best determined?) locking the cross-nut once everything is realigned, and going again until the tool reaches the relief cut. I could probably do this on a newer gear-head with a dial pretty easily, but I just can't remember how it all goes with this. Thanks!

 

All,

Would love a thread dial, or the plans for it, to fit my Lot 4! It did not come with one originally but the boss and center drill mark are there for it. I'd also like plans for a taper guide. Would be awesome to make some new collets for my BC Ames horizontal mill.

Tx!

John H

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 9:27:18 PM EDT, Glen Linscheid <partsproduction@...> wrote:


BTW, if you are cutting small threads under 14 TPI or so it works well to feed out directly, that is, without the compound set at 29 degrees. I've used the 29 degree method all my life but have made good threads by infeeding.
?When you get up into bigger threads, like 6 TPI or 4 TPI the cutting pressures may far exceed the drag of the carriage and the tool can move forward as it squeezes out all lash in the train, and that'[s where 29 degrees is really helpful.

?Outside threads have the back of the compound set 29 degrees right rear to left front, so that as the flank of the leadscrew leading edges are pushing the carriage to the toward the left the left hand cutting edge of the tool does most of the cutting and the back, or RH edge, just scrapes the back side.
?When ID threading set the compound the opposite way with the angle going from left front to right rear, and all for the same reason, loading the lash outb of the lead screw.
?Some guys have lathes with preloaded balls screws who never have that problem.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 6:10 PM Glen Linscheid via <partsproduction=[email protected]> wrote:
First thing, if the thread you want to cut is divisible by 2 or 4 (even numbers) make a test scratch on a piece of dowel or aluminum round you have as scrap, the pull the cross slide out so the tool isn't touching and crank the carriage back to the start, and drop the half nuts anywhere. If it tracks do it again as many times as you need to to feel comfortable that it's not going to cross thread. On several of my lathes I can drop the half nuts on any number or mark, but if I do that between marks it will go right down the center of the thread.
?Quick answer is reverse the lathe after you clear the tool tip, leave the half nuts engaged just like we do with an inch series lead screw cutting metric threads.
Watch this;
Or this;

?Dennis must have a drawing for the ones he made up, they are exceedingly simple and all you need to find is a small gear with the correct number of teeth and which fits the lead screws threads.
?I might be persuaded to make up ten or twenty, though I'm not sure they'd look as nice as Dennis's. Make sure your apron has a tapped hole for one right at the RH end of the apron.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 2:46 PM Joseph Difusco via <josephdfco=[email protected]> wrote:
With setting up the machine for threading. Specifically, with marking the chuck, bed, etc, so that after making a cut, I can get set up again for making another cut. I remember how to set up the threading tool (I'm also going to be doing some inside threads in 4130 1.5" tube, using a steady-rest), setting the compound (is it 30 or 60 degrees?), hand-turning everything back, then going back to where the cross-slide was, but coming in on the compound by a certain distance (how is that best determined?) locking the cross-nut once everything is realigned, and going again until the tool reaches the relief cut. I could probably do this on a newer gear-head with a dial pretty easily, but I just can't remember how it all goes with this. Thanks!

 

Thank you so much for this much-needed refresher course! The videos are great, too!? Those dials? Please put me down for one, or if you decide against it, I'd love to buy the plans.??
By the way: Any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive DRO setup for this? I was thinking maybe one for the cross-slide, one for the compound, and maybe one for the carriage. Amazon has one that I was eye-balling:






https://www.amazon.com/Cozyel-Digital-Readout-Display-Bridgeport/dp/B086GLNCJ4/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Digital%2Breadout%2Bfor%2Blathe&qid=1625242495&sr=8-6&th=1
Glen Linscheid
 

Brother Dan has purchased at least one ridiculously cheap chinese DRO, the name "SINO" oddly enough. (-:
?He's had good luck with it until recently (I think) he broke the glass scale or something.
?DRO Pros is a good source at a higher price, and they back up their DROs.
?Finding the right gearset is fra easier if you have a DRO, after you get your gear setup done engage the half nuts and pull the chuck over by hand until the Z window starts to show carriage movement stop and zero that, window and make two marks, one on the back of the chuck boss and one on the spible's collar, these two marks as close as possible so they show ehn a complete turn has been made.
?Then turn the chuck over by hand exactly one turn and the DRO will read within a tenth or , two of this> 1 (For threads per inch) divided by the TPI, lets say 14, should show .07143' rounded up, there's no reason for hundedths of a thousandth.) and that should be the figure in the DRO if your gears are right.
?For metric just do a straight MM reading, all DRO's have a metric switch, so M6X.1 should show .1 obviously.
?
?I once made a beautiful time consuming 1 1/2 X 5 RH Acme screw in 304 stainless that turned ugly before my eyes, because the original was left handed.


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:55 AM Joseph Difusco via <josephdfco=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you so much for this much-needed refresher course! The videos are great, too!? Those dials? Please put me down for one, or if you decide against it, I'd love to buy the plans.??
By the way: Any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive DRO setup for this? I was thinking maybe one for the cross-slide, one for the compound, and maybe one for the carriage. Amazon has one that I was eye-balling:
Glen Linscheid
 

My mozt commun errer is neglizent pruf reeding.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:52 PM Glen Linscheid via <partsproduction=[email protected]> wrote:
Brother Dan has purchased at least one ridiculously cheap chinese DRO, the name "SINO" oddly enough. (-:
?He's had good luck with it until recently (I think) he broke the glass scale or something.
?DRO Pros is a good source at a higher price, and they back up their DROs.
?Finding the right gearset is fra easier if you have a DRO, after you get your gear setup done engage the half nuts and pull the chuck over by hand until the Z window starts to show carriage movement stop and zero that, window and make two marks, one on the back of the chuck boss and one on the spible's collar, these two marks as close as possible so they show ehn a complete turn has been made.
?Then turn the chuck over by hand exactly one turn and the DRO will read within a tenth or , two of this> 1 (For threads per inch) divided by the TPI, lets say 14, should show .07143' rounded up, there's no reason for hundedths of a thousandth.) and that should be the figure in the DRO if your gears are right.
?For metric just do a straight MM reading, all DRO's have a metric switch, so M6X.1 should show .1 obviously.
?
?I once made a beautiful time consuming 1 1/2 X 5 RH Acme screw in 304 stainless that turned ugly before my eyes, because the original was left handed.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:55 AM Joseph Difusco via <josephdfco=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you so much for this much-needed refresher course! The videos are great, too!? Those dials? Please put me down for one, or if you decide against it, I'd love to buy the plans.??
By the way: Any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive DRO setup for this? I was thinking maybe one for the cross-slide, one for the compound, and maybe one for the carriage. Amazon has one that I was eye-balling:
 

Glen, you need a spill chequer!!!!!

:)

Dan

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:44 PM Glen Linscheid <partsproduction@...> wrote:
My mozt commun errer is neglizent pruf reeding.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:52 PM Glen Linscheid via <partsproduction=[email protected]> wrote:
Brother Dan has purchased at least one ridiculously cheap chinese DRO, the name "SINO" oddly enough. (-:
?He's had good luck with it until recently (I think) he broke the glass scale or something.
?DRO Pros is a good source at a higher price, and they back up their DROs.
?Finding the right gearset is fra easier if you have a DRO, after you get your gear setup done engage the half nuts and pull the chuck over by hand until the Z window starts to show carriage movement stop and zero that, window and make two marks, one on the back of the chuck boss and one on the spible's collar, these two marks as close as possible so they show ehn a complete turn has been made.
?Then turn the chuck over by hand exactly one turn and the DRO will read within a tenth or , two of this> 1 (For threads per inch) divided by the TPI, lets say 14, should show .07143' rounded up, there's no reason for hundedths of a thousandth.) and that should be the figure in the DRO if your gears are right.
?For metric just do a straight MM reading, all DRO's have a metric switch, so M6X.1 should show .1 obviously.
?
?I once made a beautiful time consuming 1 1/2 X 5 RH Acme screw in 304 stainless that turned ugly before my eyes, because the original was left handed.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:55 AM Joseph Difusco via <josephdfco=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you so much for this much-needed refresher course! The videos are great, too!? Those dials? Please put me down for one, or if you decide against it, I'd love to buy the plans.??
By the way: Any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive DRO setup for this? I was thinking maybe one for the cross-slide, one for the compound, and maybe one for the carriage. Amazon has one that I was eye-balling:








--
Dan & Jeanne Linscheid
Salem, OR

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