On Jun 19, 2020, at 5:08 PM, Esther <esther.lauren.77@...> wrote:

?

If I need to be more specific.. it has been a whole accumulation of little signs that you were not really caring.? That the fact that you should care may have even been outside your perception.? It was in not advising Art against rolling a half-orc character when you knew that it would completely screw up Mada's background, even though you had approved Mada for Silver before Art even joined the group.? It was in not reaching out at all when Luna was clearly distressed by the posting jumping across several timeframes and locations, which is legitimately a problem for a player that values role playing immersion where causality is important to understand character actions.? It was in not saying anything about sarcasm or brusqueness in the OOC after it had become clear that it was making people uncomfortable,?and a few concerns that were raised in?earnest were taken and run with as if they were jokes.

Even if you were not going to take their side on every issue, I think you could have made it so much better if you had at least reached out and responded to emerging concerns to?show the?group that you were listening, taking the?things that mattered to them seriously, and ready to make at least a minimal effort to smooth things out.? An understanding word, a pat on the back.. a "you matter", which you may have noticed from recent developments is really important for a lot of groups of people,?including women, that have too much of both historical evidence and personal experience of being treated as if we, and the things we value, don't and won't matter unless we keep struggling for it.

They are not coming back now, and some of the things you are saying now really are appreciated, but too little, too late.

I feel bad for you too, because I completely believe it was not even malice on your part that made things go this wrong, just.. a succession of things that were more important than what you saw them?as, not handled very?well.

Hugs,??

Esther

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:16 PM Esther via <esther.lauren.77=[email protected]> wrote:

> What is it that you want that I’m not giving you? I’ve asked several times for Player input. What am I missing?

At the risk of this sounding like a joke.. what you are missing and can't give me right now is Silver Flame and Luna.

I need?players with the same vision and love of writing and role play for me to interact with.? And the reason you lost them, would be that you did not pick up the reign of the game when there was friction and it stopped feeling like a safe, harassment free environment for them.? It pains me to say, under some other circumstances I could have shrugged it off and played on, keeping to myself that it hurt -- but now if I stay, I would feel like an enabler for what drove them away, weakening the meaning of their walkout, and that taints the?rest of the experience for me.

You are a friendly, easy-going and permissive DM, and in so many ways that is good, but when that means not acting against a new group dynamic that is hurtful, possibly not even noticing or acknowledging that it is happening, then players that do not feel comfortable anymore, or that feel that their?play style is apparently not appreciated enough to safeguard, will leave.

On Jun 19, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Esther <esther.lauren.77@...> wrote:

?

Aren't you forgetting a departing character?? In Anrah's case it is going to be a little more difficult to justify?because she had just declared as a knight to see Brother Ashley safely to Myth Drannor, so unless he asks her to go with the others, it would be out of character for her to immediately walk out on him.

And yes, Anrah is a departing character I'm afraid.? I did say you had a chance to change my mind, but I am honestly just not seeing you take seriously the various concerns that the three of us have shared with you before you posted that, and if anything this is making me feel unheard even with regard to our issue with not being heard in the first place.? This was not a situation where the issue could be glossed over and it taken for granted that I would give it another chance anyway.

We invest a lot of time, energy, love and care into crafting characters meant for a roleplay heavy setting, and for that style it is very unrewarding and even creatively numbing/damaging to play in an environment where posts can be one-liners, and where there have even been some hurtful snarky comments about us liking long role playing scenes and producing so much content (e.g. "epic bath scenes").

On Jun 19, 2020, at 11:06 AM, Esther <esther.lauren.77@...> wrote:

?

Fair weather, Art!? ?No vacation trips on the horizon here yet,?but having a lot of stay-at-home good times. ^_^

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:47 PM Arthur Picard <artamy1@...> wrote:

I’m camping until Sunday evening and won’t be able to post.

?

On Jun 19, 2020, at 11:06 AM, Esther <esther.lauren.77@...> wrote:

?

Fair weather, Art!? ?No vacation trips on the horizon here yet,?but having a lot of stay-at-home good times. ^_^

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:47 PM Arthur Picard <artamy1@...> wrote:

I’m camping until Sunday evening and won’t be able to post.

?

And after making those very hurtful comments, Esther is going to be leaving as well. That will leave us with three players.

Once the battle is over, we could always snag a few new people to join. I had already picked my two favorite players from a previous PBEM, so I guess we'll try strangers. Unless anyone else knows somebody that would want to join.

Anrah the female Lythari Elf (class?)

And Bre’tah, the female Orc ranger NPC

As I understand it, the current plot is that the group is traveling to Myth Drannor with a brief stop for Tabby to visit Leafcutter’s auntie. There is a Manticore attacking the Blue Moss Village. Is there anything else right now? Is there anything else you want?

Keep talking. Tell me more ?

Thanks!

/DM

Anrah the female Lythari Elf (class?)

And Bre’tah, the female Orc ranger NPC

As I understand it, the current plot is that the group is traveling to Myth Drannor with a brief stop for Tabby to visit Leafcutter’s auntie. There is a Manticore attacking the Blue Moss Village. Is there anything else right now? Is there anything else you want?

Keep talking. Tell me more ?

Thanks!

/DM

On Jun 19, 2020, at 9:27 AM, Tabby (Forever Running) <tabbythetabaxi@...> wrote:

?

I agree with both of you...I do like -some- combat and a healthy dose of character building. And lots of exploration. Creepy old castles...Creaky graveyards and vast forests. Some of the best times I've had with CRPGS were due to just checking out the sights. I was playing Morrowind years ago and came upon a dark cave.? There wasn't a single monster inside, just lots and lots of spooky tunnels. At the end, there was an underground lake, and in the middle was a dead body. And since adventurers love to steal from the dead, I wandered over to check it out. There wasn't anything of value on the guy, so when I turned to leave I saw something sparkling in the water. Gold? A magic ring? Nope! It was the ghost of the dead adventurer who slowly rose from the water. Scared the hell out of me. Jumped off my chair. I didn't even fight the ghost, I just ran from the cave like a little baby.

Don't have any issues with the rules. I just like seeing my characters grow in these things. How experience changes them. Sometimes not for the better!

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 9:07 AM Arthur Picard <artamy1@...> wrote:

I am exactly the opposite. I like action, combat and dungeon crawl with a minimum of character interaction. I like powerful bad guys that we can only defeat by working together . I also appreciate humor.

On Friday, June 19, 2020, 8:52 AM, Esther <esther.lauren.77@...> wrote:

• I understand that the DM is at heart just a player with a different role, but I do expect a few more things than what was laid out in point 5.? While I do not expect babysitting, the DM in effect chairs the session and that means?that when player is giving off signals that they are really troubled and not having fun at the table anymore, the DM should take an active interventionist role and not wait and see.? It is everyone's duty to make sure everyone is having fun, but when that is not working out it should be the DM who says, "Wait.. let's hold the session here and step back for a moment and address what is going wrong here."
• A big dose of humor will?always?be welcome in my games.
• I prefer my games to be a lot of role playing and as little combat / dungeon crawl / war gaming as possible.? I understand that the way D&D 5e is designed, combat encounters are inevitable as the system's whole experience?earning and level raising mechanics are very much centered on combat, but there is an implicit meta assumption hiding there that the sole goal of the game would be to rise in level.? To me it is not, because the character becoming mechanically stronger (which mostly only serves the purpose of being able to handle subsequent more difficult combat encounters) is not the only kind of character development worth playing.? I would rather play a character who only goes through levels 3-5 over the course of a long story with a solid character development arc that really changes who they are through hope and regret, love and loss, mistakes and redemption, than to be racing towards level 20 with a group of characters who at level 20 are still basically the same as a person as when they were at level 1, just tougher.
• Related to previous point, I would like to see a campaign with enough downtime in which the characters can pursue whatever they like, have a life outside of being on the road or down dungeons adventuring.
• I would also prefer a campaign in which the group can call a certain area home.? The old stereotype is that all adventurers are heavily armed homeless people porting tons of treasure around for some reason as they just travel around all the time in pursuit of trouble. But I think that really narrows down what a character can hope to achieve in their lifetime.. there is not much motivation for a player to have their character familiarize themselves with the NPCs of an area, establish contacts and relationships, build a home, or anything like that while the perception is that wherever they are, they are forever only passing through.

...

Well, I hate to say it, but with Luna having left just now as well, that leaves me alone in hoping to have an experience of strong, elaborate writing around rich backgrounds and character interaction.? With none of the strong writers from before left now to bounce my own posts against, I do not think I am going to enjoy this campaign as what I?thought I?was joining, so.. really sorry, I will be unsubscribing as well shortly.? No hard feelings, I just think that what you and I require the game to be in order for us to have fun, are just incompatible things and it will not make?it better for anyone trying to force it to be both somehow.? I think it could have gone either way, but since those that shared my views seem to have chosen to walk out already, it makes sense that I go and leave you free to have a more action based adventure.

All the best,??

Esther

I am exactly the opposite. I like action, combat and dungeon crawl with a minimum of character interaction. I like powerful bad guys that we can only defeat by working together . I also appreciate humor.

On Friday, June 19, 2020, 8:52 AM, Esther <esther.lauren.77@...> wrote:

• I understand that the DM is at heart just a player with a different role, but I do expect a few more things than what was laid out in point 5.? While I do not expect babysitting, the DM in effect chairs the session and that means?that when player is giving off signals that they are really troubled and not having fun at the table anymore, the DM should take an active interventionist role and not wait and see.? It is everyone's duty to make sure everyone is having fun, but when that is not working out it should be the DM who says, "Wait.. let's hold the session here and step back for a moment and address what is going wrong here."
• A big dose of humor will?always?be welcome in my games.
• I prefer my games to be a lot of role playing and as little combat / dungeon crawl / war gaming as possible.? I understand that the way D&D 5e is designed, combat encounters are inevitable as the system's whole experience?earning and level raising mechanics are very much centered on combat, but there is an implicit meta assumption hiding there that the sole goal of the game would be to rise in level.? To me it is not, because the character becoming mechanically stronger (which mostly only serves the purpose of being able to handle subsequent more difficult combat encounters) is not the only kind of character development worth playing.? I would rather play a character who only goes through levels 3-5 over the course of a long story with a solid character development arc that really changes who they are through hope and regret, love and loss, mistakes and redemption, than to be racing towards level 20 with a group of characters who at level 20 are still basically the same as a person as when they were at level 1, just tougher.
• Related to previous point, I would like to see a campaign with enough downtime in which the characters can pursue whatever they like, have a life outside of being on the road or down dungeons adventuring.
• I would also prefer a campaign in which the group can call a certain area home.? The old stereotype is that all adventurers are heavily armed homeless people porting tons of treasure around for some reason as they just travel around all the time in pursuit of trouble. But I think that really narrows down what a character can hope to achieve in their lifetime.. there is not much motivation for a player to have their character familiarize themselves with the NPCs of an area, establish contacts and relationships, build a home, or anything like that while the perception is that wherever they are, they are forever only passing through.

• I understand that the DM is at heart just a player with a different role, but I do expect a few more things than what was laid out in point 5.? While I do not expect babysitting, the DM in effect chairs the session and that means?that when player is giving off signals that they are really troubled and not having fun at the table anymore, the DM should take an active interventionist role and not wait and see.? It is everyone's duty to make sure everyone is having fun, but when that is not working out it should be the DM who says, "Wait.. let's hold the session here and step back for a moment and address what is going wrong here."
• A big dose of humor will?always?be welcome in my games.
• I prefer my games to be a lot of role playing and as little combat / dungeon crawl / war gaming as possible.? I understand that the way D&D 5e is designed, combat encounters are inevitable as the system's whole experience?earning and level raising mechanics are very much centered on combat, but there is an implicit meta assumption hiding there that the sole goal of the game would be to rise in level.? To me it is not, because the character becoming mechanically stronger (which mostly only serves the purpose of being able to handle subsequent more difficult combat encounters) is not the only kind of character development worth playing.? I would rather play a character who only goes through levels 3-5 over the course of a long story with a solid character development arc that really changes who they are through hope and regret, love and loss, mistakes and redemption, than to be racing towards level 20 with a group of characters who at level 20 are still basically the same as a person as when they were at level 1, just tougher.
• Related to previous point, I would like to see a campaign with enough downtime in which the characters can pursue whatever they like, have a life outside of being on the road or down dungeons adventuring.
• I would also prefer a campaign in which the group can call a certain area home.? The old stereotype is that all adventurers are heavily armed homeless people porting tons of treasure around for some reason as they just travel around all the time in pursuit of trouble. But I think that really narrows down what a character can hope to achieve in their lifetime.. there is not much motivation for a player to have their character familiarize themselves with the NPCs of an area, establish contacts and relationships, build a home, or anything like that while the perception is that wherever they are, they are forever only passing through.