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DQ-20 Tweeters flat- options
Have a set of DQ-20s Ive been using 4 years. All drivers original and working. Recapped the crossovers with premium caps (except the 5ufs which used cheaper Daytons) and refoamed the woofers the day I got them- nothing to compare them to. Bass, midrange, image all fantastic- but the upper frequencies are flat and I cant imagine what they should be. I pulled on old set of ADS speakers out to sell and when I auditioned them for the guy, realized how much high end Im missing. So a few questions-
Did the original Scanspeak D2008 8517 tweeters have ferrofluid? Ive changed old dried out fluid in vintage tweeters before with great effect. I heard there is a mod to remove a 5uf cap to the tweeter like the DQ-20is have- would that be a potential fix? Also considering running a bypass cap on the 3uf to the tweeter. Anyone have experience with the Hiquphon OW1 tweeters or modern Scanspeak D2008 tweeters? If the Scanspeaks, I see 2 models- one with ferrofluid and one without- which would be the correct choice? If the Hiquphons are a major upgrade I dont mind spending the money as these are my everyday speakers. Thanks in advance. |
Try listening with your ear close to the tweeter to make sure that they are working. A toilet paper tube, with or without paper, helps. If they are not working check the fuse.
If you have a multimeter put it in the ohms mode, and measure the fuse removed from the holder. It should be close to 0 ohms, then with the fuse out measure between the tweeter terminals it should be around 6 ohms. If the caps are the right values, in the right places and correctly soldered they are not likely the problem. |
I replaced my DQ-20 tweeters with the Hiquphon OW1 and am quite happy. No other mods. Bugz On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 2:09 AM Chris Lang <chrislang1976@...> wrote: Have a set of DQ-20s Ive been using 4 years. All drivers original and working. Recapped the crossovers with premium caps (except the 5ufs which used cheaper Daytons) and refoamed the woofers the day I got them- nothing to compare them to. Bass, midrange, image all fantastic- but the upper frequencies are flat and I cant imagine what they should be. I pulled on old set of ADS speakers out to sell and when I auditioned them for the guy, realized how much high end Im missing. So a few questions- |
Greetings Chris, So have you checked to see if the fluid is dried up. That will definitely pinch them off. Even with new drivers I open them up to see now much of a mess exist. And many time remove 50% of the existing.? Run a test CD and see where the top fades out. This naturally is ear dependent so figure out where you hearing peaks. Prior to owning a SPL meter more than once I thought I had such issues. Well it turned out to be my hearing which to date has slowly retreated down to around 13khz. Unfortunately, that fluid isn't as easy to change... To date I've yet to listen to the 20. Just the 20i, so perhaps the factory differences should be explored. Are they the same tweet? I wouldn't write off the OEM tweets untill proven to be faulty once the fluid is cleared. Or perhaps they are known for long term issues and were replaced in the "i" upgrade. In my case I've usually found whatever current replacement to end up being a tad bright. Which may or may not improve over a long break in, etc.. If I had to guess I would inspect both the fluid and the cap in the xover. Then give it another whirl. And perhaps if necessary sub the cap with something with a bit brighter presentation.? Other than that, shift to different cable tuning for a brighter presentation. Which could involve shifting both speaker wires and interconnects.? Nevertheless, if you don't already have one. Consider picking up a vintage Radio Shack SPL meter. Either analog or digital is usable, and they can be had for as little as $10. It is very useful for all sorts of testing and setup.? Best, DD On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:26 PM Chris Lang <chrislang1976@...> wrote: The OEM ones work- fuses good. I spoke with Oskar today at Hiquphon. Pretty pricey but I may try them. |
开云体育The old ferrofluid is likely the problem. I have never experienced this but none of my tweeters have ferro in them. Make sure that the connections on the fuse holder are very clean, if the fuses have never been replaced it is possible some oxides have formed on the contacts that is adding resistance to the connection. If you decide to go with the Hiquphon you may see slight sensitivity or impedance issues that can upset the crossover. These can be dealt with if you are technical. Sa
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I guess that was my original question- before I open up the tweeters (which definitely comes with some risk) I was hoping someone could confirm if they D2008-8513 OEM ones did in fact have ferrofluid in them. It would explain my issue if they did, but Ive never seen it mentioned scouring the internet. While 80% of the time Ive been successful changing it out during restorations, I did destroy a KEF 104.2 tweeter one time so I prefer to know if its even neccessary before opening one up. Thanks for all the help.
Interesting about fuse oxidation. Thats one thing I havent checked but will now. Caps definitely good-- I recapped the crossovers when I got them (even the big 68uF shunt to ground electrolytic for the woofer got a film cap). Nice Clarity Caps for the tweeters. |
Chris, what model DQ20's do you have, the 20 or the 20i??According to the WIKI the 20 i's have the 8517 variant which did have?ferrofluid in it and they are quite old and probably?very thick.
You wrote 8513 variant, it also has ferrofluid. ?The paragraph below?indicates the 8512 is the closest match though I can not confirm this myself. It looks like the 8511, 12 and 13 are all closely related. The 11 does not have ferro and the 13 has?thin diffusion?absorber. The 11 is 1dB more?efficient but has the most ragged?response. A simple?resistor?change could fix this. I do not see any?tweet listed for the 20's. Can you read the?model number on your existing?tweeters to confirm? "My 4 year old son recently blew up one of my DQ-20i tweeters and I had to replace them. The originals were Scan-Speak Type D2008 Code 8517. The drop in replacement which is available at Madisound and elsewhere is the Scan-Speak type D2008 Code 8512. Since there is a difference in codes I called Scan Speak in Denmark and spoke to an engineer there. He could not find any info/records on the 8517, but assured me that the D2008 would be a sonic match. " In general unless you want to measure and/ or mess around with this a lot I would suggest staying with this Scan series is your best bet. While it is highly likely different tweeters will sound different I suggest they may not actually sound better.? To optimize any other tweeter requires measurement tools and the knowledge to use them correctly. The H tweeters are smoother and likely would sound better if you know how to integrate them BUT they measure tweet sensitivity differently than Scan does. Scan and most others use 2.83 volts drive level measured at 1 M and H uses 1 watt which is NOT the same unless the tweeter is exactly 8 ohms, which few are. So at the very least some attenuation adjustments would likely be advisable. While this can be done by trained ears it is difficult for the average listener.? Still, if you are up to it you don't have much to lose by trying to remove the ferrofluid and carefully clean out the gap. Unless you listen at high volumes I personally would not replace it with fresh unless you can find out what it originally used and can obtain it. There are multiple viscosities of fluid available and they do affect the response and the sound. Removing fresh ferro will increase the efficiency of the tweeter about 1dB. If the FF is old and thick the change will be much larger. ? Be careful to correctly align the voicecoil when you reassemble. On tweeters I always use impedance curves and/or pure sine waves to tweak the final alignment, by moving the coil relative to the magnet, to minimize distortion. Very occasionally the best results are obtained by using thin brass shims to change the voice coil angle. As you know this is delicate work and very small movements have big effects. This is necessary unless the tweeter has very tight tolerance alignment pins. I use REW and sometimes ARTA as a signal source and an inexpensive set of calibrated measurement mics like the UMIK1 for all of my speaker work. Fuse and connector oxidization are real issues and cause a lot of problems. In areas of high pollution and humidity even gold develops crud on that impairs current flow. Cheap connectors are really bad in this respect. Because of this I recommend plugging and unplugging every accessible connector in your system and, when possible, rotating them back and forth at least yearly. Cleaning them with products like the CAIG chemical series also help. I would not mess with caps or resistors at this time but do double check all your solder joints under strong light and a good magnifier. The joints should look very shiny and smooth. If not, reheat them and let them cool until they do look shiny. Solder joints can degrade with time.? I this the schematic you are using? |
开云体育Is the tweeter for the DQ-12 the same as for the 20 series? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Charlie Conger
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 3:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-20 Tweeters flat- options ? Chris, what model DQ20's do you have, the 20 or the 20i??According to the WIKI the 20 i's have the 8517 variant which did have?ferrofluid in it and they are quite old and probably?very thick. |
开云体育I see that they are not.? They are a 1” soft fabric dome.? Anyone have a suggestion for replacements, aside from Regnar? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Rick Flaherty
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 3:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-20 Tweeters flat- options ? Is the tweeter for the DQ-12 the same as for the 20 series? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Charlie Conger ? Chris, what model DQ20's do you have, the 20 or the 20i??According to the WIKI the 20 i's have the 8517 variant which did have?ferrofluid in it and they are quite old and probably?very thick. |