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I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers. What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era amps.
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I’ve been thru this sogga?
I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers. What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era amps.
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I wouldn't only look at the wattage the amp can produce, but more on the current the transformer can handle during higher levels of listening during an extended period if time. With that said 100 watts or more is preferable in a normal sized room... ??
Kindly Jorgen
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From: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io <DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io> on behalf of MattB <mab.switawi@...>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 5:55:43 PM
To: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io <DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io>
Subject: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-10 What is the recommended power input?
?
I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers. What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the
1970' era amps.
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I’ve had a pair of early production DQ-10 (sn ~2500) since the mid 70s. Back in the day, I powered them with Great American Sound company (GAS) ?Ampzilla and Thaedra. AmpZila produces 200W RMS, which was adequate in most listening situations. It’s still struggled with the heartbeat on Pink Floyd‘s Breathe in the air.?
Having listened to the DQ-10s since then with 75-150 WPC solid state amps, i’d suggest that 200W is minimum for the best sound… You need headroom to handle deep bass transients.?
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On Oct 22, 2021, at 11:55 AM, MattB <mab.switawi@...> wrote:
?I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers. What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era amps.
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200 W per channel is an absolute minimum. I ran them with a Pioneer 1250 which has 160 W per channel for a couple years and people in the group said get more power you won’t believe the difference and I really didn’t believe them. Then I hooked up at 300 white Mcintosh and transform them to entirely different sound in speaker. However you still need a subwoofer. Also the brand makes a big difference Mcintosh Pioneer and KenwoodOr more mellow full sounding wow Yamaha is incredibly bright which doesn’t work with the dog quest Sansui is next being very bright and then Marantz is just barely passable but obviously the dog quest don’t pair well with very bright sounding amps and preamp’s so I would stick with Mcintosh Pioneer or kenwood and a minimum of 200 W per channel you’ll do better with more
I’ve had a pair of early production DQ-10 (sn ~2500) since the mid 70s. Back in the day, I powered them with Great American Sound company (GAS) ?Ampzilla and Thaedra. AmpZila produces 200W RMS, which was adequate in most listening situations. It’s still struggled with the heartbeat on Pink Floyd‘s Breathe in the air.?
Having listened to the DQ-10s since then with 75-150 WPC solid state amps, i’d suggest that 200W is minimum for the best sound… You need headroom to handle deep bass transients.? ?I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers. What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era amps.
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200 in most cases is not sufficient. 300 is more in the ballpark. And whatever the amp turns out to be along with the 10's will thank you when you progress to bi-amping.
200 W per channel is an absolute minimum. I ran them with a Pioneer 1250 which has 160 W per channel for a couple years and people in the group said get more power you won’t believe the difference and I really didn’t believe them. Then I hooked up at 300 white Mcintosh and transform them to entirely different sound in speaker. However you still need a subwoofer. Also the brand makes a big difference Mcintosh Pioneer and KenwoodOr more mellow full sounding wow Yamaha is incredibly bright which doesn’t work with the dog quest Sansui is next being very bright and then Marantz is just barely passable but obviously the dog quest don’t pair well with very bright sounding amps and preamp’s so I would stick with Mcintosh Pioneer or kenwood and a minimum of 200 W per channel you’ll do better with more I’ve had a pair of early production DQ-10 (sn ~2500) since the mid 70s. Back in the day, I powered them with Great American Sound company (GAS) ?Ampzilla and Thaedra. AmpZila produces 200W RMS, which was adequate in most listening situations. It’s still struggled with the heartbeat on Pink Floyd‘s Breathe in the air.?
Having listened to the DQ-10s since then with 75-150 WPC solid state amps, i’d suggest that 200W is minimum for the best sound… You need headroom to handle deep bass transients.? ?I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers. What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era amps.
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Hey Matt
You don't mention if you're using a preamp or not. If so, I'd highly recommend you look at the Adcom 555 or the Hafler DH500. Both are powerhouses, well-established as providing the "push" you need for the 10's. If you're considering just a receiver, there's a lot to choose from. I have an Onkyo TX-SR805 that works OK from a power standpoint (130 WPC), but you could fry an egg on the top of it after an hour of listening (I bought it for a home theatre, not for the DQ10's, but I have used it with the 10's so thats how I now it gets toasty - thus my other recommendations).The Haflers are my preferred amps (Power Rating: Less than 0.025% total harmonic distortion at any power level up to 255 watts continuous average power per channel into 8 ohms at any frequency between 20 Hz and 20 kHz with both channels driven. IM Distortion: Less than 0.007% from 1 watt to 255 watts into 8 ohms). They are beasts. The Adcom 555 ( 200W into 8 ohms (23dBW); all continuous power, 20Hz-20kHz, with 0.09% THD) is also a great choice.
You could consider a Phase Linear 700, at a robust 350 WPC, but PL isn't know for its reliability.
Whats your budget?
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As others have said, 200-300 watts with the ability to deliver plenty of current, is the way to go. Current sourcing is probably more important than a specific power rating. I originally powered mine with a Mission Cyrus II with the PSX power supply. Only 60WPC, but gobs of current. Later, I had a Hafler DH500 for a while. Sounded nice, but the fan noise irritated me. Moved up to a pair of Bryston PowerPac 300s (mono block version of the 4BSST) this year. Holy mackerel! Such a difference! The Bryston 4B series is often mentioned as being a good fit for the DQ-10s, and for good reason.
GAS, Phase Linear, Hafler, Adcom, and Crown were all popular choices back in the day, because they were the best available at the time. I don't think there's any "vintage magic" that makes those amps work especially well with vintage speakers like the DQ-10. I'd take a modern, high-quality, high-power, high-current amp over any vintage amp, any day of the year. Unless it's been re-capped and otherwise maintained, that vintage amp probably sounds nowhere near as good as when it was originally in vogue.
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I use a simple Crown XLi1500, it has enough power (330 @8ohm, 450 @4ohm) to handle anything needed.? While not an audiophile grade amp it has been a good fit.? No fan noise, no hiss and no audible issues at all.? It just quietly sits there and cranks out music.
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From: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io <DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io> on behalf of gapriddy@... <gapriddy@...>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 1:13 PM
To: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io <DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-10 What is the recommended power input?
?
As others have said, 200-300 watts with the ability to deliver plenty of
current, is the way to go. Current sourcing is probably more important
than a specific power rating. I originally powered mine with a Mission
Cyrus II with the PSX power supply. Only 60WPC, but gobs of current.
Later, I had a Hafler DH500 for a while. Sounded nice, but the fan noise
irritated me. Moved up to a pair of Bryston PowerPac 300s (mono block
version of the 4BSST) this year. Holy mackerel! Such a difference! The
Bryston 4B series is often mentioned as being a good fit for the DQ-10s,
and for good reason.
GAS, Phase Linear, Hafler, Adcom, and Crown were all popular choices
back in the day, because they were the best available at the time. I
don't think there's any "vintage magic" that makes those amps work
especially well with vintage speakers like the DQ-10. I'd take a modern,
high-quality, high-power, high-current amp over any vintage amp, any day
of the year. Unless it's been re-capped and otherwise maintained, that
vintage amp probably sounds nowhere near as good as when it was
originally in vogue.
>> On Oct 22, 2021, at 11:55 AM, MattB <mab.switawi@...> wrote:
>>
>> ?I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers.
>> What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage
>> amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use
>> with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era
>> amps.
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> [2] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/message/5923
> [3] /mt/86517355/5266916
> [4] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/post
> [5] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/editsub/5266916
> [6]
>
/g/DahlquistSpeakers/leave/9217918/5266916/519635072/xyzzy
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Hello Matt &
I second the Bryson’s 4B line; I have had three of them in my system, dating back to the early 80’s and the latest I have, the 4B3 works especially well with the DQ10’s, has an upgraded input stage that results in a sweet, transparent sound. I’ve been toying with trying an Audio Research Tube amp, but, given how well this Bryston works, I can’t justify the price difference for the newer ASR amps. And, having had a few different quality amps in the system over the past 40 years, in my experience, the newer amps seem always to bring more nuances to the presentation, are more transparent and revealing.
In the 80’s, when the DQ 10’s were still near the top of food chain, an article appeared in an audio magazine (can’t remember which one) about the pairing of a Bryston 4B with the DQ10’s and what a great match they are/were - motivated me to buy the first one (had unbelievable slam). And these amps can be had for reasonable money, used, plus a new one comes with a 20 year transferable warranty.
Good luck with your quest!
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On Oct 22, 2021, at 2:13 PM, gapriddy@... wrote:
?As others have said, 200-300 watts with the ability to deliver plenty of current, is the way to go. Current sourcing is probably more important than a specific power rating. I originally powered mine with a Mission Cyrus II with the PSX power supply. Only 60WPC, but gobs of current. Later, I had a Hafler DH500 for a while. Sounded nice, but the fan noise irritated me. Moved up to a pair of Bryston PowerPac 300s (mono block version of the 4BSST) this year. Holy mackerel! Such a difference! The Bryston 4B series is often mentioned as being a good fit for the DQ-10s, and for good reason.
GAS, Phase Linear, Hafler, Adcom, and Crown were all popular choices back in the day, because they were the best available at the time. I don't think there's any "vintage magic" that makes those amps work especially well with vintage speakers like the DQ-10. I'd take a modern, high-quality, high-power, high-current amp over any vintage amp, any day of the year. Unless it's been re-capped and otherwise maintained, that vintage amp probably sounds nowhere near as good as when it was originally in vogue.
On Oct 22, 2021, at 11:55 AM, MattB <mab.switawi@...> wrote: ?I want to purchase a new (me to me) amp for my DQ-10 speakers.
What is the minimum wattage I should buy? What are classic/vintage
amps and some models? I have a Pioneer SX780 (35 watts) that I use
with its Pioneer CS35 speakers. I want to stick with the 1970' era
amps.
Links:
------
[1]
[2] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/message/5923
[3] /mt/86517355/5266916
[4] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/post
[5] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/editsub/5266916
[6] /g/DahlquistSpeakers/leave/9217918/5266916/519635072/xyzzy
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Until we know a budget, much of this exercise is wasted....
Ah yes, Crown. The Sherman Tank of amps. I had a DC300a for some time. Thought of them like a great girlfriend...no matter how tough the circumstances, they'd still put out.
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Hi everyone
?
I ran my DQ-10 from 100 wpc? NAD to 85 wpc SX-850 .....? Mcintosh 2105 , ....
?
but finally came across a Carver M1.0T?? at 285 wpc .... then had it rebuilt w MkII opt2 ... to 485 WPC .... !
really opened the sound up...
AT one point I had two M1.0T? both upgraded.... I used one per channel but DIDNOT run them as monoblocks....?
?
I also ran it with a DW-1 w MX passive crossover..? lots of fun.
?
I just used one channel per amp.... with a super amount of headroom !!!
?
The Carver M1.0t? can be found ....? I suggest getting a DOA one that is in nice cosmetic condition ... and sending ut out to NeilonAudio for the upgrade ... during the process that will fix it no additional cost...
?
just a thought!
?
Good Hunting
Bill
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I have my original DQ-10s that I purchased in 1978, Along with my Ymaha CA-2010 amp which is rated 120W but easily puts out up to 160w. Also a Velodyne subwoofer via the pre-amp outputs on the Yamaha. They sound great with the DQ’s. I am also considering a Schiit set up with two Vidars as balanced MonoBlocks off of a Freya+ pre-amp.
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I also used to run my DQ-10's with two molded MT-1.0 amps.? One drove the DQ-10's and one drove two DW woofers through an LP crossover.? Very impressive dynamics in a 16' x 26' room.? I can also attest to Neilson's warranty support.? Approximately 10 yrs. after conversion one channel went out. Just boxed it up, Sent it in and about two weeks later it was back in my system.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Bill Sohne <bsohne@...> Date: 10/22/21 1:23 PM (GMT-07:00) To: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-10 What is the recommended power input?
Hi everyone
?
I ran my DQ-10 from 100 wpc? NAD to 85 wpc SX-850 .....? Mcintosh 2105 , ....
?
but finally came across a Carver M1.0T?? at 285 wpc .... then had it rebuilt w MkII opt2 ... to 485 WPC .... !
really opened the sound up...
AT one point I had two M1.0T? both upgraded.... I used one per channel but DIDNOT run them as monoblocks....?
?
I also ran it with a DW-1 w MX passive crossover..? lots of fun.
?
I just used one channel per amp.... with a super amount of headroom !!!
?
The Carver M1.0t? can be found ....? I suggest getting a DOA one that is in nice cosmetic condition ... and sending ut out to NeilonAudio for the upgrade ... during the process that will fix it no additional cost...
?
just a thought!
?
Good Hunting
Bill
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There's a lot of ways to skin that cat IMHO.? I've had my 10a set since the late 70s and have tried a few combinations over the years.? I've been settled on the following for the last decade or so. I use an active crossover set at 100 Hz, pulling the low bass load off the 10 allows the use of a smaller amp.? In my case an Audio Research D79b (79 tube Watts) with the 10s augmented with a pair of RH labs? RH1 subs powered by an Audio Research D200 SS amp.? Medium sized room (24 X 17), carpeted, textured ceiling, bass traps in the corners.? Can and will run you out of the room if you ask them to.? Just my $0.02.
John
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What do you guys think of the sound from a Phase Linear 700 series II paired with DQ10? It has a bus load of power, far more than I'll ever use. And not pushing it real hard I really wont be stressing the amp. I think most of thier reliability issues really came from pro's trying to use it commercially and maxing it out for hours and hours. I love how they look but never heard one in person. Curious of you guys experiences with that setup compared to other amps.?
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I have a mx1 recapped and used it briefly when I only had one DQ one sub and one 160 wpc amp. Obviously the amp was overworked. When I got a Mac 2300 for 800$ doa and had it rebuilt ... the dq10’s with 300 Wpc sounded quite different. I then added a second dq1 , stored mx1 and Used the lp1 using the 160 wpc Pioneer sx1250 amp to power just the two subs and the tuner too.? Then a found a second set of dq10’s for 300$ , redid the xo’s and used a powered sub which was a polk 660 which has a remote for volume and xo freq point. I was surprised ?how much more effective ?a modern sub was then the stiff ?old fashioned dq1.
I also used to run my DQ-10's with two molded MT-1.0 amps.? One drove the DQ-10's and one drove two DW woofers through an LP crossover.? Very impressive dynamics in a 16' x 26' room.? I can also attest to Neilson's warranty support.? Approximately 10 yrs. after conversion one channel went out. Just dboxed it up, Sent it in and about two weeks later it was back in my system.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- Date: 10/22/21 1:23 PM (GMT-07:00) Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-10 What is the recommended power input?
Hi everyone
?
I ran my DQ-10 from 100 wpc? NAD to 85 wpc SX-850 .....? Mcintosh 2105 , ....
?
but finally came across a Carver M1.0T?? at 285 wpc .... then had it rebuilt w MkII opt2 ... to 485 WPC .... !
really opened the sound up...
AT one point I had two M1.0T? both upgraded.... I used one per channel but DIDNOT run them as monoblocks....?
?
I also ran it with a DW-1 w MX passive crossover..? lots of fun.
?
I just used one channel per amp.... with a super amount of headroom !!!
?
The Carver M1.0t? can be found ....? I suggest getting a DOA one that is in nice cosmetic condition ... and sending ut out to NeilonAudio for the upgrade ... during the process that will fix it no additional cost...
?
just a thought!
?
Good Hunting
Bill
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I run a tweeked Yammy MX-1000u on vintage Cobra Cables for the mid/highs which to date has proven to be a good matchup. I've found that bi-amped, if you manage to stress her your stepping out of bounds. And hopefully your running aftermarket tweets. As it is a shame to fry the oems which are not high wattage devices. But I find that the smaller oem voice coils are also one of the reasons they integrate so well.
As for amps a restored bipolar Phase 700?tweeked for pristine highs?would most likely not run out of steam. The mosfet DH-500 or Moscode 600 should present as more tube like overall. Both are good and the Moscode even more interesting but a bit harder to keep chugging. Bipolar Ampzilla's are nice but still power limited and also a chore.? The early bipolar Pass Adcoms and Parasounds are definitely of interest. Generally on the 10's higher power is recommended as full bloom isn't realized until pushed a tad beyond the typical 200wpc amps abilities.?
I have a mx1 recapped and used it briefly when I only had one DQ one sub and one 160 wpc amp. Obviously the amp was overworked. When I got a Mac 2300 for 800$ doa and had it rebuilt ... the dq10’s with 300 Wpc sounded quite different. I then added a second dq1 , stored mx1 and Used the lp1 using the 160 wpc Pioneer sx1250 amp to power just the two subs and the tuner too.? Then a found a second set of dq10’s for 300$ , redid the xo’s and used a powered sub which was a polk 660 which has a remote for volume and xo freq point. I was surprised ?how much more effective ?a modern sub was then the stiff ?old fashioned dq1. I also used to run my DQ-10's with two molded MT-1.0 amps.? One drove the DQ-10's and one drove two DW woofers through an LP crossover.? Very impressive dynamics in a 16' x 26' room.? I can also attest to Neilson's warranty support.? Approximately 10 yrs. after conversion one channel went out. Just dboxed it up, Sent it in and about two weeks later it was back in my system.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- Date: 10/22/21 1:23 PM (GMT-07:00) Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-10 What is the recommended power input?
Hi everyone
?
I ran my DQ-10 from 100 wpc? NAD to 85 wpc SX-850 .....? Mcintosh 2105 , ....
?
but finally came across a Carver M1.0T?? at 285 wpc .... then had it rebuilt w MkII opt2 ... to 485 WPC .... !
really opened the sound up...
AT one point I had two M1.0T? both upgraded.... I used one per channel but DIDNOT run them as monoblocks....?
?
I also ran it with a DW-1 w MX passive crossover..? lots of fun.
?
I just used one channel per amp.... with a super amount of headroom !!!
?
The Carver M1.0t? can be found ....? I suggest getting a DOA one that is in nice cosmetic condition ... and sending ut out to NeilonAudio for the upgrade ... during the process that will fix it no additional cost...
?
just a thought!
?
Good Hunting
Bill
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Anyone running a Carver PM-1.5? How does it sound with the DQ10's? I'm suprised its 450wpc and only weights 21lbs. SpecificationsPower output: 450 watts per channel into 8? (stereo), 1200 watts into 8? (mono) Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.1% Damping factor: 200 Gain: 26 dB Signal to noise ratio: 115dB Speaker load impedance: 4? (minimum) Dimensions: 19 x 3-1/2 x 10-13/16 inches Weight: 21lbs
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Carver amps are the wattage equivalent of 'empty calories'. They tend to be funky designs (and very unreliable for the goofiness of the power supply to get short bursts of power out of cheap components [one tech told me awhile back that the PM-1.5 actually used in the power supply something they'd only ever seen sold as a commercial lamp dimmer]) that were tweaked to show impressive numbers on a resistive load? in short bursts on the test bench. On a real world reactive load like a speaker, especially a more demanding design like the DQ-10, they tend to fall flat with loads of clipping and harsh, screaming sound. I used to have a couple of M-1.0ts and a M-1.5t (the home version of the PM-1.5) and sold them cheap just to get rid of them as I couldn't stand their sound and so had no use for them. More conventional, current capable amplifiers that are only spec'd at a quarter the rated power of the Carvers will outperform them driving real world speakers.
?
The suggestion to watch for a Bryston is a good one. Those pair well with the DQ-10s and offer a good balance of performance against cost. Another option is the older Aragon amplifiers: the 4004 can be found for $600-800 and is a pretty competent amp.
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MattB
SpongeSound
Ed Lindsey