DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io

Re: DQ-10 phase issue found and corrected Charlie Conger All Messages By This Member #6505 开云体育 I agree and have heard about that 180 degree swap before. To be clear I totally believe you and agree. This is the way Jon intended the speaker to be.? Charlie Conger toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Dec 22, 2023, at 10:09 PM, wmsimpson125@... wrote: ? [Edited Message Follows] Hi Charlie, ? First, using the left speaker as a guide, I verified the wiring according to the crossover schematic. Then I carefully compared everything to the right speaker. I could see how the tweeter and super tweeter had been rotated 180 degrees making the?+ and - terminals reversed. I swapped the wires and whoa Nellie! That did the trick.? ? The?test tracks I referred to in my OP feature a drum being tapped. It starts out dead center, then moves left, then far left, then right, then far right. Before my fix, when the drum was supposed to go far right, it actually sounded like it was moving slightly to the left. After the fix, the drum moved to the far right, as was intended.? ? I'm absolutely positive that they were phased incorrectly, and are now correct. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, and the test tracks prove it as far as I'm concerned. ? I'll post a photos tomorrow showing the left and right speaker wiring. ? Bill On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 7:21?PM Charlie Conger <ctconger@...> wrote: When you say the right side tweeter and super tweeter were out of phase, ?what were you using as a reference -the left side? Or a schematic? The behavior you have observed, apparently is correct per the original designer. The dome mid, tweeter, and super tweeter are all out of phase with respect to the cone mid and the woofer. This gives the speakers their spacious imaging feel . I?found this out by reading through all Jon Dahlquist’s interviews and also talking to Carl Marchisotto who was Jon’s right hand man. He confirmed the phase shown in Rev9 schematic is correct. Unfortunately, ?I have lost the interview link where Jon described the crosstalk cancellation. If anybody has it I would appreciate a copy. The gradual 180 degrees phase shift , combined with the laterally offset ?drivers causes crosstalk cancellation ( reduces leakage between channels). The implementation strategy is similar to ?Polk SDAs without using a second set of drivers. This is an advanced design given its age. Mirror imaging the speakers and carefully aiming them so a point midway between ?the ?mid cone and mid dome points to the corresponding ear maximizes the effect. Images will appear outside the lateral extent of the speakers. ? ?
Re: DQ-10 phase issue found and corrected Bill Simpson All Messages By This Member #6504 Edited Hi Charlie, ? First, using the left speaker as a guide, I verified the wiring according to the crossover schematic. Then I carefully compared everything to the right speaker. I could see how the tweeter and super tweeter had been rotated 180 degrees making the?+ and - terminals reversed. I swapped the wires and whoa Nellie! That did the trick.? ? The?test tracks I referred to in my OP feature a drum being tapped. It starts out dead center, then moves left, then far left, then right, then far right. Before my fix, when the drum was supposed to go far right, it actually sounded like it was moving slightly to the left. After the fix, the drum moved to the far right, as was intended.? ? I'm absolutely positive that they were phased incorrectly, and are now correct. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, and the test tracks prove it as far as I'm concerned. ? I'll post a photos tomorrow showing the left and right speaker wiring. ? Bill On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 7:21?PM Charlie Conger <ctconger@...> wrote: toggle quoted message Show quoted text When you say the right side tweeter and super tweeter were out of phase, ?what were you using as a reference -the left side? Or a schematic? The behavior you have observed, apparently is correct per the original designer. The dome mid, tweeter, and super tweeter are all out of phase with respect to the cone mid and the woofer. This gives the speakers their spacious imaging feel . I?found this out by reading through all Jon Dahlquist’s interviews and also talking to Carl Marchisotto who was Jon’s right hand man. He confirmed the phase shown in Rev9 schematic is correct. Unfortunately, ?I have lost the interview link where Jon described the crosstalk cancellation. If anybody has it I would appreciate a copy. The gradual 180 degrees phase shift , combined with the laterally offset ?drivers causes crosstalk cancellation ( reduces leakage between channels). The implementation strategy is similar to ?Polk SDAs without using a second set of drivers. This is an advanced design given its age. Mirror imaging the speakers and carefully aiming them so a point midway between ?the ?mid cone and mid dome points to the corresponding ear maximizes the effect. Images will appear outside the lateral extent of the speakers. ? ?
Re: DQ-10 phase issue found and corrected Charlie Conger All Messages By This Member #6503 Edited When you say the right side tweeter and super tweeter were out of phase, ?what were you using as a reference -the left side? Or a schematic? The behavior you have observed, after reversing, apparently is correct per the original designer. The dome mid, tweeter, and super tweeter are all out of phase with respect to the cone mid and the woofer. This gives the speakers their spacious imaging feel . I?found this out by reading through all Jon Dahlquist’s interviews and also talking to Carl Marchisotto who was Jon’s right hand man. He confirmed the phase shown in Rev9 schematic is correct. Unfortunately, ?I have lost the interview link where Jon described the crosstalk cancellation. If anybody has it I would appreciate a copy. The gradual 180 degrees phase shift , combined with the laterally offset ?drivers causes crosstalk cancellation ( reduces leakage between channels). The implementation strategy is similar to ?Polk SDAs without using a second set of drivers. This is an advanced design given its age. Mirror imaging the speakers and carefully aiming them so a point midway between ?the ?mid cone and mid dome points to the corresponding ear maximizes the effect. Images will appear outside the lateral extent of the speakers.
DQ-10 phase issue found and corrected Bill Simpson All Messages By This Member #6502 I bought a pair of DQ-10s at a local thrift shop about a year ago, and had been thoroughly enjoying them for at least a month when I discovered that one of them had a phase issue. Here's what happened... I was reading another audio forum and came upon the subject of using test records/CDs to evaluate stereo systems and or speakers. Out of curiosity, I found The Best of Chesky Classics & Jazz Audiophile Test Disc Volume 3 on Tidal and gave it a listen. To my surprise, Track 28 - Natural Stereo Imaging, and Track 29 - Artificial Stereo Imaging indicated there was a problem with my right speaker. The imaging would not extend past the right edge of the speaker. But with the left speaker, the imaging extended well past the left edge. In other words, the soundstage from my DQ-10s was being cut off drastically on the right side.? After several hours of trying to figure out what the heck was going on, I discovered that the tweeter and super tweeter on the right speaker were wired out of phase. It was an easy fix, and now my DQ-10s sound the way they should... a soundstage that extends nearly 90 degrees to the left and to the right.? Funny thing is, I was under the impression that my speakers were factory mirror imaged (SN 47247 and 47295), and the wiring appeared to be untouched. Anyway, I was clueless that there was a problem until I listened to that test CD.? Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Chesky recordings...
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? John Boros All Messages By This Member #6501 开云体育 I’ve had my DQ10’s since new, in 1980, can’t believe it’s been almost 44 years (will be in January). In that time, many sources, including Schiit Gungnir and Yggdrasil DACs. Given the abundance of digital sources, Spotify, Tidal and near infinite access to music via these sources, I decided to invest in a high quality DAC and built an R2R ANK DAC 4.1:? I modified the build with silver input wire and teflon caps, along with US and Russian military tubes, both in the audio section and power supply. I’m also using an Auralic G1 streamer and a Singxer USB bridge.? In all the time I’ve owned these speakers, the SQ has never been better; I prefer my DAC setup to any other source, my TT, tuner and even my R2R. These Audio Note Kit DACs are amazing; it took a good 400 hours for it to burn in. I have a hearing issue, tinnitus from hearing damage in my youth and cannot listen if the music is loud. So, I’m using an Ayre preamp with a Bryston 4b3 amplifier and most often listen below 50 db. Even at this volume, for the most part, the music is holographic; the speakers mostly disappear and thanks to the DAC.? Given all the years I’ve owned and have been listening to my speakers, I imagine they’re my paradigm. I’ve listened to many systems and many different speakers and have not found I pair I enjoy more, except one setup that included Martin Login CS2’s, driven my Boulder pre and amps - was more than a $100,000. Also, I purchased my speaker wires from a reviewer that works for Sound Stage Network, I think it’s called, magazine and when I told him what speakers I have, he said: “Don’t sell them, don’t replace them, they’re fantastic - you’d be hard pressed to find better!” It is most definitely worth marrying a decent digital front end with these old beauties!?
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? Ed Lindsey All Messages By This Member #6500 开云体育 Your usage model may not justify a CD ripper.? I have around 5000 albums on either vinyl, R2R or CD, and still buy used CDs of titles that are of interest.? ? Given the cost of a used 2TB Zen Mini, having the ripper is just goodness.? Your milage may vary.? BTW, Innuos does a very good job of supporting both their hardware and software products.? ? I live in an area of frequent thunderstorms.? Shortly after setting up my Zen Mini it stopped booting.? The local dealer tried to troubleshoot the issue with the help of Innuos technical support.? When they were unable to diagnose the problem, Innuos shipped to Portugal and reinstalled the software at no cost.? Turn-around took 2-1/2 weeks.? Mind you, this was a >1yr old used NAS. ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io <DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io> On Behalf Of SpongeSound Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2023 6:48 AM To: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? ? That Zeni looks nice. One thing though, I don't buy CD's anymore, so once you've ripped your collection as a library, the CD player kind of becomes no-value anymore right?
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? SpongeSound All Messages By This Member #6499 Dealing with a mass of CD's just seems unnecessary these days. Don't really have a convenient place to store them and I find I don;t listen to music as much if I have to plow through rows of CD's. Rip em' all as flac files to a NAS and be done with it is what I'm going for. Most of the music I collect these days is pulled from Youtube. OR, I stream from Amazon Music, Spotify, etc. Once done, a free service like Plex which works well with a NAS will help categorize and let you play your collection back, all from your laptop or phone.
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? SpongeSound All Messages By This Member #6498 That Zeni looks nice. One thing though, I don't buy CD's anymore, so once you've ripped your collection as a library, the CD player kind of becomes no-value anymore right?
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? Ed Lindsey All Messages By This Member #6497 开云体育 You might want to look at an Zen Mini music server.? It comes with a CD ripper and DAC built in.? They are relatively small and can be had for the range of $$$’s you are talking about. ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io <DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io> On Behalf Of russ jackson Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2023 5:50 AM To: DahlquistSpeakers@groups.io Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? ? Basically Apple's version of the MP3, AAC files, which are still lossy files... maybe slightly better than MP3's...? I always ripped my CDs (300ish?) to iTunes as I had never used a good system to listen before I got back into it.? Everything was either in the car or at the office...? Also, I needed the laptop space for work and lossless files are BIG... I should have just gotten an external and ripped them all lossless, but that's hindsight. I've looked into re-ripping everything (ugh... but needs to be done) and creating a network that is probably what you are doing, but right now I'm sinking my earmarked audio funds into the base system.? I have looked into setting up a network using hard-wired storage of lossless files and a good DAC, I've listened to similar systems that sounded "really" well.? I'm going to wait until my wife and I make one last move and we settle (we plan to change locations and abodes next year), so (hopefully!) I'll never have to move it. When I first started trying to figure it out, I went to Pro Musica in Chicago and they pitched some of Naim's all-in-one's as a solution (CD ripper, streamer, storage, integrated amp), but that unit alone was twice what I have in the whole system.? It sounded very good (with ProAc speakers, REL sub) but it was going to be at least $15k for the basic system...? One interesting fact about their in-house library was that they not only ripped CDs, but most of their library was ripped from vinyl (that's a rabbit hole I'm getting close to... lol).? After demoing all that, he took me downstairs to listen to a pair of Quad 57's using their digital network... wow!? That is what really opened me up to vintage...? many thanks to them! Right now Im waiting to see if my Krell player is resurrected...? if not, then I'm really considering getting a higher-end CD/SACD player that will have an on-board DAC that can be used separately...? probably gonna spend $1500-$3000...? ouch!? But, I think it will pay off in the long run and be a cornerstone for the system...? And having listened to some very expensive audiophile systems playing digital, it will still be extremely modest for the return...? and the DQ10s sound sooooo good with the right power and source material.
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? russ jackson All Messages By This Member #6496 Basically Apple's version of the MP3, AAC files, which are still lossy files... maybe slightly better than MP3's...? I always ripped my CDs (300ish?) to iTunes as I had never used a good system to listen before I got back into it.? Everything was either in the car or at the office...? Also, I needed the laptop space for work and lossless files are BIG... I should have just gotten an external and ripped them all lossless, but that's hindsight. I've looked into re-ripping everything (ugh... but needs to be done) and creating a network that is probably what you are doing, but right now I'm sinking my earmarked audio funds into the base system.? I have looked into setting up a network using hard-wired storage of lossless files and a good DAC, I've listened to similar systems that sounded "really" well.? I'm going to wait until my wife and I make one last move and we settle (we plan to change locations and abodes next year), so (hopefully!) I'll never have to move it. When I first started trying to figure it out, I went to Pro Musica in Chicago and they pitched some of Naim's all-in-one's as a solution (CD ripper, streamer, storage, integrated amp), but that unit alone was twice what I have in the whole system.? It sounded very good (with ProAc speakers, REL sub) but it was going to be at least $15k for the basic system...? One interesting fact about their in-house library was that they not only ripped CDs, but most of their library was ripped from vinyl (that's a rabbit hole I'm getting close to... lol).? After demoing all that, he took me downstairs to listen to a pair of Quad 57's using their digital network... wow!? That is what really opened me up to vintage...? many thanks to them! Right now Im waiting to see if my Krell player is resurrected...? if not, then I'm really considering getting a higher-end CD/SACD player that will have an on-board DAC that can be used separately...? probably gonna spend $1500-$3000...? ouch!? But, I think it will pay off in the long run and be a cornerstone for the system...? And having listened to some very expensive audiophile systems playing digital, it will still be extremely modest for the return...? and the DQ10s sound sooooo good with the right power and source material.
Re: Has anyone used one of these to measure speaker performance/range? Charlie Conger All Messages By This Member #6495 That video is good overview of integrating subs into a system. Despite having done this since the 70's I personally am not able to do this properly by ear, you have to measure. My experience with dozens of others that claim they have properly integrated sub(s)by ear? is the same.? If you are interested in doing this there are dozens of tutorials online, some bad, some good, a few excellent. For a one stop shop this is perhaps the best overall, particularly if you use their products. It is both clear and technically accurate, something you rarely find in most YT videos: Just choose your topic of interest and go from there. Note that they use REW a lot. If you are not familiar the is FREE software the has a huge support community on the web. It has evolved over many years to be one of most capable and flexible programs around. It is also widely used and easy to share data with others for help.? You can download for FREE for PC or Mac here: https://www.roomeqwizard.com
Re: Has anyone used one of these to measure speaker performance/range? Ed Marrs All Messages By This Member #6494 Yes, not something you do often.? Here’s a link that should give you an idea about the process.? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 7:57?PM SpongeSound <wm.edmiston@...> wrote: Haven't done this before Ed. Whats involved and what do you do with the results? and is it a "use it once and then never again" type device?
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? SpongeSound All Messages By This Member #6493 hey Russ - I also like to find bargain gear that helps up my sound! I have two Hafler DH500's and a first generation Adcom 555 amp (Nelson Pass design I believe) so I have the power-part covered. I use one Hafler to power the DQ-10's and the Adcom for the DQ sub. I mimic that same setup for a second pair of 10's and a second DQ sub in another room. About 13 years ago I spent the better part of a week ripping and creating a FLAC music library from all my CD's (400+ maybe?). But somehow in the fog of multiple moves, etc. I can't find the flac files and my library is all MP3. I think I tried to clean up tags and converted it...anyway. To your point, I suspect to get the most out of a DAC I'd have to go back to CD's as the source. When you were using your laptop for the music were they lossy MP3's? I hate the thought of having to re-rip all mine again as FLAC files but it's probably worth it because I don't have a convenient place to store 400+ CD's!! (Now if I just a had a good CD drive/reader!!).
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? Bob G All Messages By This Member #6492 开云体育 Oppo is definitely overkill if you don’t have DSF files and/or want to stream video. The 205 was a once in a generation product that will never be made again. At $1300 new, it was a huge bargain. ?It will decode just about any type of audio or video file/disk except for Atmos, but you can use Bitstream output to send it to an Atmos decoder. Built like a tank, and top-notch electronics. That’s why they’re 2-3X original retail on eBay. NAS is definitely the way to go. You can get inexpensive all in one units for a couple hundred dollars. Best to spend a little more and get something that’s expandable though, to accommodate your music collection as it grows. You can also back up your laptop hard drive.? I’ve had a Synology NAS for about eight years and it’s been rock solid. Tons of free software comes with it too. toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Dec 19, 2023, at 9:03?AM, SpongeSound <wm.edmiston@...> wrote: ?The Oppo seems like a bit of overkill. I don't stream video or have any Blu-ray stuff. Esp at $2500. A NAS device may be a good idea if that frees up my laptop from having to store the music files.
Re: Anyone using a DAC? Which ones? Diminishing returns on vintage speakers? MUDDFISH #6491 I usee a music service like spotify or tidal I use the premium plan .. As you get older and loose hearing finding music to hear at your fingertips is priceless.? Don't get me wrong, I still have preamplifier,? amps and speakers. Solid state and tubes stuff but what I value now is time. If a song or album? pops in my mind and I just want to listen to it, I can just use spotify? find it with a cluck of a button and press play. The bluesound node is a bluetooth streamer. It can pick up the signal from your phone or computer? and can be totally wireless from your source. toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 8:49 AM, George Ahlborn <the_ahlborns@...> wrote: Here’s an interesting video talking about using vintage, audio speakers with today’s modern DACs and DSP:

Regards

George?

On Dec 19, 2023, at 6:41 AM, russ jackson <rjackson@...> wrote:

?I've been down a similar road, I just got back into it a couple of years ago...? I used my laptop for music and my wife streamed.? I ended up getting a Dragonfly DAC which was slightly better than the laptop (iMac and iTunes Library).? I thought this sounded great, and it did sound good (DQ10s with a Mcintosh MC4100).? Then I upped the power with a Crown DC300A II, used the Mcintosh as a preamp, and the DQ10s sounded even better.? Then for kicks I used a super cheap Sony CD player and spun some discs, and was amazed at the difference...? my library was compressed and I didn't know what I was missing.

I'll interject here and ask how you've saved your music files?? If they aren't totally lossless, then changing your source is probably one of the the biggest gains you can make?

When I realized that the source made so much difference I bought a decent CD player ($100 used) Denon DCD 820 with a great DAC chip... and OMG...? now I get it!? And the DQ10s sounded amazing!? I still had issues with bass and clipping if I tried to crank it up, until I ran across an Adcom GFA 555 II...? completely changed the soundstage and gave me headroom.

Now I have DQ W1s, and both a passive and active crossover to choose from, that are being gone through with my local tech...? I'll hook those up early next year and can't wait to hear/see the improvement!? I've also got a Krell Standard SACD player that I got at an auction (cheap), it was DOA but the same techs are trying to bring it back to life...? if they succeed, I have no doubt it will be another leap.

Basically all this to say, your DQ10s will only sound as good as your source file!??

Also... over the last two years I've gone to Chicago (no place in Louisville except Best Buy and Home Theater stores) and listened to quite a few systems, some very high end... and to get to the sound of my modest DQ10 system, I'd have to spend 10s of thousands...? I've got less than 4k invested, including everything I mentioned.

NOTE? My opinion, if you're hoping to get a sizable gain with a cheap DAC, probably not worth it...

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