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Re: Nakamichi and the Dahlquist DQ-10
John, indeed interesting.? I had an old Nakamichi (Nak) cassette deck back in the day that was an audiophile item.? (Today putting cassette deck and audiophile?in the same sentence would be considered a faux pas.) On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 2:40 PM John van Son <jpvanson@...> wrote:
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Nakamichi and the Dahlquist DQ-10
Thought some of you might find this interesting... While going through my files to expand the group Wiki and make it a bit more useful, I ran across images of this old Nakamichi brochure for the DQ-10. Yes, Nakamichi. Back at the end of 1973, the DQ-10 so impressed Mr. Etsuro Nakamichi himself that he decided to import and distribute the model in Japan using his company. This is a brochure for the early units with the CTS woofer, but the model found its fans over there and they were sold in Japan by one outfit or another until the end of production. I can't say for certain, but it seems the DQ-10s Nakamichi brought over stuck the badges up top (or so it was for the couple of pairs I've seen) counter to the optionally mounted badges on the US versions with the tendency to glue them down low. |
Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
开云体育Off the cuff, take it to a good electronics repair shop.? The damage that can be done is likely greater than the savings you will realize by attempting it on your own.? This my friend comes from someone who made there living in the electronics industry.? Good luck and let us know how things work out. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of koryrf@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 6:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-20i muted output from one speaker ? Thank you to everyone for their input. ?It appears the issue is NOT with the speakers, but with my Acurus A150 amp. ?I thought I did a good job of troubleshooting before coming here, but apparently I didn't. With your insistence, I performed a fairly scientific exploration of the system and found that I could get the issue to switch sides, but only when I switched the speaker wires. I changed out connecting cables, sources (preamps and cd players), and speaker wires, and the problem persisted on the one side until I switched speaker wires. ?I then tried new speaker wires and the issue persisted, to include switching sides, when I swapped them around. Unfortunately, I only have the one amp so I am unable to swap out the Acurus out to verify my assumption. |
Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
Thank you to everyone for their input. ?It appears the issue is NOT with the speakers, but with my Acurus A150 amp. ?I thought I did a good job of troubleshooting before coming here, but apparently I didn't. With your insistence, I performed a fairly scientific exploration of the system and found that I could get the issue to switch sides, but only when I switched the speaker wires. I changed out connecting cables, sources (preamps and cd players), and speaker wires, and the problem persisted on the one side until I switched speaker wires. ?I then tried new speaker wires and the issue persisted, to include switching sides, when I swapped them around. Unfortunately, I only have the one amp so I am unable to swap out the Acurus out to verify my assumption.
Thanks to you folks, I won't be tearing into the speakers (for now), which is awesome. ?Sadly, I have to decide whether or not to rip into the amp. ?It's a simple device, but I'm not sure where to start. ?Someone told me off the cuff that they thought it might be an output capacitor going bad. ?Any thoughts? |
Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
Thanks John. ?You've given me a lot to think about. ?I am fundamentally lazy and the thought of tearing the speakers apart to troubleshoot issues upsets my constitution (and frightens me a bit). ?Still, if I am going to be in this game, I will have to suck it up and grab the soldering iron. I have already replaced resistors in both XO in that speaker (and one in the high pass XO in the other). ?I am going to go with Occam's Razor and say that I screwed up the solder job on the one speaker giving me issues. ?When I swapped out the resistor on the low pass XO, I did the work with the XO in place (in the speaker) which was was a feat of gymnastics that I don't soon want to repeat. ?Hence my question way back in the beginning about whether anyone here has tried moving XO's out of the speaker permanently into their own box that lives external to the speakers.?
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
With your speakers, they're new enough that the crossovers are one of the last things to check as a possible culprit. The Solens caps won't have gone bad by this time; polypropylene caps are much hydrophobic than the older polyester film types that used to be used, which makes them more resilient. Even then, those old film caps tend not to go bad until they've had a good four decades on them in my experience. Unless the resistors and/or inductors have gotten toasty (or crumbled as some old sandcast types sometimes do), they should also be in spec. There is the possibility that there's a loose connection or cracked solder joint somewhere causing an increase in resistance on the woofer leg of the crossover. That is a possibility and something I've encountered often enough, but save that for later to look for.
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For trouble shooting the reduced bass, you've already taken some good steps to that end and have received good advice. The first step in such a situation is to swap the speaker wires at the amp side of things. That's the easiest and quickest way to determine if the fault lies with the electronics. If it follows the channel, there you go. It'll also help negate the possibility of a slight short in the speaker leads at the amp side of things. A stray strand from the speaker wires shorting to the other post can lead to the amplifier still operating at a much reduced output without tripping the protection circuitry if it's not making too good of contact. Swapping wires will remove said strand if there is one.
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If you've cleared the electronics, then it's to the speakers...maybe. Much as we put well-deserved weight of sound quality to the speakers, ultimately, the factor with the greatest impact on the sound is the room especially in the bass frequencies below the room's Schroeder frequency. If one speaker is in a corner and the other more out into the room or one ordinarily placed and the other near an opening into an adjacent room, there will be a significant imbalance in levels between the channels especially in the bass frequencies. It may be placement is causing your issues or you may be experiencing something related to more complex modal behavior. (50Hz falls in the range of common room mode issues due to the floor-to-ceiling distance.) You can cross this off your list of possibilities by swapping speakers, take the right channel and substitute it for the left and vice versa. If the depressed bass follows the speaker, you know it's not the room, but the speaker. If not, you'll need to work with placement to see if you can adjust for things using a SPL meter (even a basic SPL meter app for your phone will be a start) to suss out the room's behavior or progress to more in depth understanding using software like Room EQ Wizard and a calibrated mic to run frequency sweeps.
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If it follows the speaker, you'll need to check the drivers. It could be the woofer in the one has loosened up over the years allowing for an air leak around the frame, which will reduce bass output. Beyond that, the DQ-20i is of the last series to still use the Advent style woofer, which is very prone to foam rot. All surround materials suffer age related decay, foam is just more visually obvious in it. Pull the grill covers and give it a good inspection. If pieces of the surround are missing, well, there you go. If not, check it more closely. Foam that is about to fall apart, but not there yet can develop slits that'll leak be it across the surround or at the edges where it meets the cone and/or frame. You'll have an idea it's getting to that point just by the color (foam in its last days takes on a yellowish tint) and especially by feel: run a finger lightly along it and foam about to give out will feel rough, crumbly and leave sand like grit on your finger tip with a pass. If it's at this point, plan on refoaming both woofers. This is easy to do with a kit from an outfit like Simply Speakers that offers a complete kit and instructions good for a first time refoamer, but there are plenty of other sources for foams if you feel more secure in going about it.
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If everything checks out, pull the woofers. Measure the DC resistance of the voice coil and compare. A woofer that's been overdriven, but not to the point to blowing, can toast the VC enough to increase resistance. This will, of course, reduce output (and shift the crossover point). If that checks out, feel if the cone moves freely by applying gentle, even force around the edges of the dust cap and feel for resistance, grinding or hear a hashing sound. If you feel any of that, it may be the woofer has been bottomed out at some point, deforming the voice coil former causing binding that'll reduce output. Though, if that's the case, you should've heard a hash like sound before during playback. If everything checks out still, swap the woofers between the cabinets and see if the problem follows the woofer or sticks to the speaker.
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If it doesn't follow the woofer, well, you've eliminated most everything but the crossover. As I mentioned, the caps are unlikely to have gone bad and if they've degraded, it's not to a degree inexpensive cap testers bought online can tell. They're garbage. I've seen one say an electrolytic cap was good that when dissected had no electrolyte left in it and was just a crystalized mess inside (ie as bad as it gets without having blown its guts out all over). Waste of money unless spending several hundred or thousand on an actually decent tester. More importantly, there is no cap directly in the signal path to the woofer. The 68?F cap in the woofer circuit is part of a Zobel network for impedance smoothing. If it were bad, the behavior around the intended crossover point would change and shift, but you wouldn't be hearing a difference at 50Hz. So, anyways, you'll need to eliminate everything else first. Check the connections, are the wires making good connection to the woofer? How about at the crossover? Between the crossover and binding posts on the back? Soldier joints look good on the board (ie no visible cracks when you look at them with a handheld magnifier)? I doubt you'll get to this point, having found the problem long beforehand, but this is the last likly cause of the issue you're having.
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Good luck! |
Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
Yup On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 6:43 AM <koryrf@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
开云体育I never use more than a AAA or AA battery? Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "bruce.colson" <onangenman@...> Date: 10/23/20 7:55 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-20i muted output from one speaker On Oct 23, 2020, at 7:37 PM, dina hirsch <Rdajr1079@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
He can simply use his speaker wires and a db meter.... set amp or receiver at a low to mid vol and bypass the crossover and put the speaker wires right on the driver terminal. Compare left and right woofer with a tone from bink audio cd fir each driver in left and right speaker.? On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:55 PM bruce.colson <onangenman@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
开云体育If you take a 9volt battery and connect a lead to each output, then briefly tap the positive and negative terminals on the individual speakers and it should be a very pronounced crack or thump. If this works then your crossover or the wire from the input terminals to the crossover is bad. Good luckOn Oct 23, 2020, at 7:37 PM, dina hirsch <Rdajr1079@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
Greeting Kory, Well prior to jumping to any conclusions check the a/c voltage. Compare the voltage level at the driver on both speakers preferably with a true rms meter. And at the speaker inputs. That will tell the tale electrically. You may have a voice coil that has shifted higher in resistance. Or perhaps just a high resistance solder joint.? Over the years I have found balance controls are frequently not centered in the center position. So don't assume that the center is balanced. Again the meter is your friend. DD On Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 6:11 PM Ed Lindsey <sealindsey@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
dina hirsch
These two meters are available at amazon and inexpensive.? On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:11 PM Ed Lindsey <sealindsey@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
开云体育I’m sure are familiar with the KISS principle.? Start with the simplest possible issue and work up to the more complex.? Connections and surrounds would be my first areas of investigation.? While capacitors and resistors do fail, connections and foam surrounds are much more common. ? Simplest test is to remove the woofers from the cabinets and run a 50Hz low volume sine wave through them.? If one of the drivers are bad you will know.? Since I am not familiar with DQ20’s, check the surrounds on the drivers.? The surrounds on the DQ10’s typically need to be re-foamed due to deterioration of the foam surround.? A loose connection on a driver can also result in lower volume, particularly a poor ground.? Check the connections while the drivers are out of the box. ? If one of these issues is not the culprit, then I would look for signs of burning or overheated passives on the cross-over.? I don’t have a copy of the cross-over schematic…it should be a fairly straight forward parallel 3-way design.? Look at the components in the woofer and mid-range high pass sections of the cross-over.? If you want help identifying those section there are many on this group who can help. ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of koryrf@...
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 3:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DahlquistSpeakers] DQ-20i muted output from one speaker ? I have a pair of DQ-20i and the right speaker is having issues. All drivers (woofer, midrange and tweeter) ?are putting out sound, but when I run a 50 hz tone through them, and move the balance back and forth, the right speaker much more quiet. My uneducated guess is that I am having an issue in the crossover (one of the caps going bad?). ?My crossovers have the black Solen caps, and they look like they are in good condition, but being nothing more than a neophyte, I am not confident I know how to test them. ?Could it be the midranges? |
Re: DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
Have you checked the obvious first? Reverse the speaker connections at the amp to eliminate a problem there and double check that you have a clean solud connection at the spaeker. Then check continuity from input jacks to the crossover.? On Fri., Oct. 23, 2020, 3:50 p.m. , <koryrf@...> wrote: I have a pair of DQ-20i and the right speaker is having issues. All drivers (woofer, midrange and tweeter) ?are putting out sound, but when I run a 50 hz tone through them, and move the balance back and forth, the right speaker much more quiet. My uneducated guess is that I am having an issue in the crossover (one of the caps going bad?).? My crossovers have the black Solen caps, and they look like they are in good condition, but being nothing more than a neophyte, I am not confident I know how to test them.? Could it be the midranges? |
DQ-20i muted output from one speaker
I have a pair of DQ-20i and the right speaker is having issues. All drivers (woofer, midrange and tweeter) ?are putting out sound, but when I run a 50 hz tone through them, and move the balance back and forth, the right speaker much more quiet. My uneducated guess is that I am having an issue in the crossover (one of the caps going bad?). ?My crossovers have the black Solen caps, and they look like they are in good condition, but being nothing more than a neophyte, I am not confident I know how to test them. ?Could it be the midranges?
If it is the capacitors, any recommendations on what brand and where to buy them? On a related note, has anyone considered moving the crossovers out of the box and into an external enclosure for easier access and tinkering? I met a guy that builds high end speakers and he does this. ?Seems convenient. Thoughts? ? TIA. |
Re: DQ10 Capacitors
I replaced them in one set and still don’t hear anything out of piezo but have always had sound from tweeters in both sets. I’ve test piezo directly by hooking them directly from speaker wires from amp at low vol and the driver produce sound that way. Not sure if xo freq but perhaps beyond my hearing range which is about 16k hz On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 11:28 AM Jack Harrington <sirreal63@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ10 Capacitors
开云体育
I would caution anyone from assuming the yellow poly caps, and the small poly caps for the super tweeter are good, just because they are poly caps.? On my set the super tweeter and tweeter circuit were both blown and caused the tweeter and super tweeter to
be out of the circuit on both speakers.? Test them and if in doubt change them with appropriate replacements.?
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