Thanks all for your quick helpful responses. Got it. ? ?Mike
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On Oct 22, 2020, at 6:30 AM, dina hirsch <Rdajr1079@...> wrote:
? Well the dq10¡¯s with them have better bass and much fuller sound then due the pair with solens! So much so I ordered a second set... but given your input I¡¯ll order some non polarized ones and still swap the solens out and see if the bass and sound improves On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 6:20 AM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: Polarized capacitors are used in electronic equipment like amplifiers per the reference, but after the final amplifier section, the signal goes from DC circuitry where the positive and negative polarities have their own signal path to an AC signal where the polarity alternates on the single path loop. Amplifiers and other electronics require polarized capacitors. Speaker crossovers must be non-polarized.
As for quality, since you referenced the Solens caps, those are?¡À5% tolerance in value. That means 80?F for the Solens will be within the range of 76?F to 84?F in value. The cap you linked to is -20%/+50%, which is about as bad a tolerance range as you can find in a purchasable cap. That means it can be anywhere from 64?F to 120?F in value. The resultant crossover point, even if that were a non-polarized capacitor would be ridiculously off what was designed.
Regarding sound, anything that says it's for a "guitar amp" is best interpreted as meaning "highly colored, very off parameter and high distortion". Anything that's thought good for something to produce music is terrible for reproducing it. The goals for the two are at utter odds with one another. One wants to induce distortion and colorations to get a desired sound, the other is meant to maximize fidelity to reproducing that sound the musician sought. Guitar amps are some of the most colored and distorted out there. You see "guitar" anywhere in the description for a component, don't touch it at the least and best to run away.?
TL;DR: Never use a polarized cap in a crossover. Double-never use a polarized cap meant for guitar amps in a crossover.
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Well the dq10¡¯s with them have better bass and much fuller sound then due the pair with solens! So much so I ordered a second set... but given your input I¡¯ll order some non polarized ones and still swap the solens out and see if the bass and sound improves  On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 6:20 AM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: Polarized capacitors are used in electronic equipment like amplifiers per the reference, but after the final amplifier section, the signal goes from DC circuitry where the positive and negative polarities have their own signal path to an AC signal where the polarity alternates on the single path loop. Amplifiers and other electronics require polarized capacitors. Speaker crossovers must be non-polarized.
As for quality, since you referenced the Solens caps, those are?¡À5% tolerance in value. That means 80?F for the Solens will be within the range of 76?F to 84?F in value. The cap you linked to is -20%/+50%, which is about as bad a tolerance range as you can find in a purchasable cap. That means it can be anywhere from 64?F to 120?F in value. The resultant crossover point, even if that were a non-polarized capacitor would be ridiculously off what was designed.
Regarding sound, anything that says it's for a "guitar amp" is best interpreted as meaning "highly colored, very off parameter and high distortion". Anything that's thought good for something to produce music is terrible for reproducing it. The goals for the two are at utter odds with one another. One wants to induce distortion and colorations to get a desired sound, the other is meant to maximize fidelity to reproducing that sound the musician sought. Guitar amps are some of the most colored and distorted out there. You see "guitar" anywhere in the description for a component, don't touch it at the least and best to run away.?
TL;DR: Never use a polarized cap in a crossover. Double-never use a polarized cap meant for guitar amps in a crossover.
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Well the dq10¡¯s with them have better bass and much fuller sound then due the pair with solens! So much so I ordered a second set... but given your input I¡¯ll order some non polarized ones and still swap the solens out and see if the bass and sound improves
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 6:20 AM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: Polarized capacitors are used in electronic equipment like amplifiers per the reference, but after the final amplifier section, the signal goes from DC circuitry where the positive and negative polarities have their own signal path to an AC signal where the polarity alternates on the single path loop. Amplifiers and other electronics require polarized capacitors. Speaker crossovers must be non-polarized.
As for quality, since you referenced the Solens caps, those are?¡À5% tolerance in value. That means 80?F for the Solens will be within the range of 76?F to 84?F in value. The cap you linked to is -20%/+50%, which is about as bad a tolerance range as you can find in a purchasable cap. That means it can be anywhere from 64?F to 120?F in value. The resultant crossover point, even if that were a non-polarized capacitor would be ridiculously off what was designed.
Regarding sound, anything that says it's for a "guitar amp" is best interpreted as meaning "highly colored, very off parameter and high distortion". Anything that's thought good for something to produce music is terrible for reproducing it. The goals for the two are at utter odds with one another. One wants to induce distortion and colorations to get a desired sound, the other is meant to maximize fidelity to reproducing that sound the musician sought. Guitar amps are some of the most colored and distorted out there. You see "guitar" anywhere in the description for a component, don't touch it at the least and best to run away.?
TL;DR: Never use a polarized cap in a crossover. Double-never use a polarized cap meant for guitar amps in a crossover.
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Polarized capacitors are used in electronic equipment like amplifiers per the reference, but after the final amplifier section, the signal goes from DC circuitry where the positive and negative polarities have their own signal path to an AC signal where the polarity alternates on the single path loop. Amplifiers and other electronics require polarized capacitors. Speaker crossovers must be non-polarized.
As for quality, since you referenced the Solens caps, those are?¡À5% tolerance in value. That means 80?F for the Solens will be within the range of 76?F to 84?F in value. The cap you linked to is -20%/+50%, which is about as bad a tolerance range as you can find in a purchasable cap. That means it can be anywhere from 64?F to 120?F in value. The resultant crossover point, even if that were a non-polarized capacitor would be ridiculously off what was designed.
Regarding sound, anything that says it's for a "guitar amp" is best interpreted as meaning "highly colored, very off parameter and high distortion". Anything that's thought good for something to produce music is terrible for reproducing it. The goals for the two are at utter odds with one another. One wants to induce distortion and colorations to get a desired sound, the other is meant to maximize fidelity to reproducing that sound the musician sought. Guitar amps are some of the most colored and distorted out there. You see "guitar" anywhere in the description for a component, don't touch it at the least and best to run away.?
TL;DR: Never use a polarized cap in a crossover. Double-never use a polarized cap meant for guitar amps in a crossover.
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They sound much better then big Solen ones
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 5:12 AM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: What's shown in this photo is a polarized capacitor hence the band with arrows formed into it. Don't use these in a crossover, it does bad things (ie blows up and stinks when power is applied) and the speaker will not sound right before the cap goes. Only use non-polarized (or bipolar depending on the company's choice of nomenclature) capacitors in a speaker. Music is an AC signal, not DC.
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What's shown in this photo is a polarized capacitor hence the band with arrows formed into it. Don't use these in a crossover, it does bad things (ie blows up and stinks when power is applied) and the speaker will not sound right before the cap goes. Only use non-polarized (or bipolar depending on the company's choice of nomenclature) capacitors in a speaker. Music is an AC signal, not DC.
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On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 3:56 AM dina hirsch < rdajr1079@...> wrote:
I used the big solen in one and a Chicago I¡¯ll. One from eBay in another set. The Chicago ones have better bass even after installing two redone prof woofers.?
Clarity caps. Parts list is in files. Madisound . Skip the piezo caps as they hi quality film . On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 3:30 AM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: Though a bit sun faded, those old yellow polyester capacitors are still servicable unless the speakers are sounding really off. (Film caps can and do go bad, but sporadically and after forty years or so in my experience.) The resistors and inductors don't look like they've gotten toasty and so should still be good. New polypropylene capacitors would be an improvement, but it'd be small enough you'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to really notice it, to be honest. However, there will be a bit improvement in replacing that blue 80?F electrolytic in the upper right as others have noted. You'll want to buy a non-polarized or bipolar capacitor for use in a crossover. These will be larger and more expensive than a standard polarized capacitor of that value, so be sure you watch what you buy when you order. One of these two would be suitable:?
Depending on your preference, other shops that have the capacitors include Parts Express and Madisound, but if you're in Canada, Solen.ca is the better option and, if in Europe, (though the options there can be overwhelming and they cater to less rational and more esoteric tastes thus making for some very expensive, though poorly made, options).
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I used the big solen in one and a Chicago I¡¯ll. One from eBay in another set. The Chicago ones have better bass even after installing two redone prof woofers.?
Clarity caps. Parts list is in files. Madisound . Skip the piezo caps as they hi quality film .
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 3:30 AM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: Though a bit sun faded, those old yellow polyester capacitors are still servicable unless the speakers are sounding really off. (Film caps can and do go bad, but sporadically and after forty years or so in my experience.) The resistors and inductors don't look like they've gotten toasty and so should still be good. New polypropylene capacitors would be an improvement, but it'd be small enough you'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to really notice it, to be honest. However, there will be a bit improvement in replacing that blue 80?F electrolytic in the upper right as others have noted. You'll want to buy a non-polarized or bipolar capacitor for use in a crossover. These will be larger and more expensive than a standard polarized capacitor of that value, so be sure you watch what you buy when you order. One of these two would be suitable:?
Depending on your preference, other shops that have the capacitors include Parts Express and Madisound, but if you're in Canada, Solen.ca is the better option and, if in Europe, (though the options there can be overwhelming and they cater to less rational and more esoteric tastes thus making for some very expensive, though poorly made, options).
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Though a bit sun faded, those old yellow polyester capacitors are still servicable unless the speakers are sounding really off. (Film caps can and do go bad, but sporadically and after forty years or so in my experience.) The resistors and inductors don't look like they've gotten toasty and so should still be good. New polypropylene capacitors would be an improvement, but it'd be small enough you'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to really notice it, to be honest. However, there will be a big improvement in replacing that blue 80?F electrolytic in the upper right as others have noted. You'll want to buy a non-polarized or bipolar capacitor for use in a crossover. These will be larger and more expensive than a standard polarized capacitor of that value, so be sure you watch what you buy when you order. One of these two would be suitable:?
Depending on your preference, other shops that have the capacitors include Parts Express and Madisound, but if you're in Canada, Solen.ca is the better option and, if in Europe, Hificollective.co.uk (though the options there can be overwhelming and they cater to less rational and more esoteric tastes thus making for some very expensive, though poorly made, options).
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Looks almost like my board. Have to look when I get home.
Change the blue cap.? It¡¯s an old electrolytic.? ?Hi Guys and Gals,? I know this question has probably been answered but searched through database and could not find anything definitive.? Have had these DQ10s for maybe 28 years.? Stereo pair s/n 42466 and 42467.? Other than woofer surround replacements they are unmolested (or un-updated?!).? I understand the electrolytic capacitors are the most problematic. Not looking to do a complete x-over overhaul, but is it advisable to replace only the electrolytic capacitors- the speakers do not sound bad, but not sure what I may be missing?? So, if so, which ones should I replace?? See image.? Suggestions for components/values.? And, are there polarity issues to worry about?? Thanks, yes I'm a novice, but enjoy the hobby.??? Mike
<IMG_4838.jpg>
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Change the blue cap. ?It¡¯s an old electrolytic.?
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On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:09 PM, rychjo via groups.io <rychjo@...> wrote:
?Hi Guys and Gals,? I know this question has probably been answered but searched through database and could not find anything definitive.? Have had these DQ10s for maybe 28 years.? Stereo pair s/n 42466 and 42467.? Other than woofer surround replacements they are unmolested (or un-updated?!).? I understand the electrolytic capacitors are the most problematic. Not looking to do a complete x-over overhaul, but is it advisable to replace only the electrolytic capacitors- the speakers do not sound bad, but not sure what I may be missing?? So, if so, which ones should I replace?? See image.? Suggestions for components/values.? And, are there polarity issues to worry about?? Thanks, yes I'm a novice, but enjoy the hobby.??? Mike
<IMG_4838.jpg>
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Hi Guys and Gals,? I know this question has probably been answered but searched through database and could not find anything definitive.? Have had these DQ10s for maybe 28 years.? Stereo pair s/n 42466 and 42467.? Other than woofer surround replacements they are unmolested (or un-updated?!).? I understand the electrolytic capacitors are the most problematic. Not looking to do a complete x-over overhaul, but is it advisable to replace only the electrolytic capacitors- the speakers do not sound bad, but not sure what I may be missing?? So, if so, which ones should I replace?? See image.? Suggestions for components/values.? And, are there polarity issues to worry about?? Thanks, yes I'm a novice, but enjoy the hobby.??? Mike
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Interesting. That does narrow down the introduction of the AD5062/W8 to the 48XXX s/n range then. Makes sense, Philips seems to have stopped making the AD5060 around 1983/85 and there'd be a delay before old stock in the supply channels dried up.
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Same?Philips AD5060/W8 on both sets (37xxx and 47xxx)
Good question Roy. We've been waiting for real comparisons for?years.
DD
Interesting...I'll check that out and report back.
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Re: DQ-10 with a powered sub
I feel compelled to chime in, having read posts of people claiming the LP1 the only way to go! In the 40 years I¡¯ve owned my DQ10¡¯s, I¡¯ve never had a chance to listen to the DQ/LP1 combo, neither at home, nor in the showroom where I purchased them and so I can¡¯t say how this might compare to my setup. However: some 15 years ago I purchased a Totem Lightning sub, with an 8¡± cf driver (was inexpensive, used). Initially, it didn¡¯t mesh seamlessly with the DQ10¡¯s, fit the bill as some have described; however, after its plate amp failed, I replaced it with a 300 watt, Bash, digital plate amp and tapped off the amplifier instead of the preamp - this proved to be a wining combination as the sub now seamlessly integrates, while the digital plate amp is dead quite and runs cool .... I couldn¡¯t be happier! Also, like Paul, I listen quietly, but, even cranked, the combo works very well - I¡¯ve asked friends if they could distinguish the sub - no one¡¯s been able to! I¡¯m happy!
John
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Re: DQ-10 with a powered sub
I am no golden ear. Just a hobbyist. But did work for a Dahlquist retailer in the 80's and spent plenty of time with the DQ-1Q/DQLP1 combo. I really enjoyed that they matched the DQ-10s as well as they did. It was as if they had the same voice to me. On the down side, they did not bring the depth or dynamics I heard from other offerings. Fast forward to today, I have found myself happy with a Velodyne powered sub with my DQ-10s. Not trying to plug Velodyne as I think quite a few subs could fill the bill but the results are good. To get any sub to perform well is a challenge as tall as getting the DQ-10s to be at their best. Determining best location and good integration takes time and patience. A thoughtful installer should be able to make the Klipsch sub work well. As for the remote control, I love it. Mostly because of the variation in the recordings from era to era. Nothing wrong with warming up a lean mix, in my opinion. But also because I often listen at a low level at night, not wanting to disturb and my system sounds thin. No loudness button on my preamp and I like a little enrichment. Human factors... go figure :)?
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Interesting...I'll check that out and report back.
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Well, there was one change just above your 47xxxs that I haven't had a chance to enter into the Wiki yet. In the s/n 48xxx rangge, the Philips AD5060/W8 midbass was replaced with the Philips AD5062/W8, which was basically a newer, higher power version. I'm fairly certain the crossover wasn't changed as the examples I've seen had the same yellow Dahlquist label film caps that'd been in use since introduced with serial number 22000.
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I can send u the parts list from madisound and parts express ?along with Picts and instructions along with a few diff directions
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 3:49 PM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: I've been working on going through my files and searching the net to better fill out the DQ-10 revisions tracked in the Wiki. I'm currently at eleven with a few not worth mentioning because they just involved changing brand of capacitors and resistors, but not type. (Wouldn't mind any input if someone has examples of other revisions so I can fill things out better. There's some conflicting information I'm trying to sort out.) So, near as I've been able to tell, by serial number 29093 when factory mirror-imaged baffles were introduced, the design of the functional bits were finalized. By that time, the crossover hadn't changed since s/n 22000 and remained what it was until production was ceased in the low 50000s in 1988. The only change that happened is that oak trim rails were added as an option in 1981.
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So, your s/n 47xxxs coming out in the mid to late '80s are newer, but functionally the same as the others that came out in the early '80s. Near as I can tell, there's no reason to not just stick with the pair in better condition and call it good.
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