Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
The other argument against buying the absolute high end CPU (more CPU
than necessary for the purpose) is that Moore's Law still holds when
it comes to CPU performance vs. price. By the time the user's needs
even come close to the capability of the CPU the price of that CPU
will drop significantly or newer CPUs will be available with major
advances in capability.
A typical lifetime of computer technology is something on the order
of six years - or perhaps two major versions of Windows. Purchasing
capability beyond that lifetime is a waste of time. At every 6-8
year point I have replaced computers with new systems having four
times the performance (MOps/Sec, RAM, etc.) the previous system at
half the cost of the "obsolete" system.
Today, with systems featuring CPUs at the median ~24,000 CPU Mark
level available for between $350 and $500, it makes no sense to
pay three to four times as much for the highest performance CPUs
that show CPU Marks of ~28,000-29,000.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2025-03-26 5:57 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote: + AA6YQ comments below
I've followed this thread with some interest. It seems to me that an
important feature of computer, monitor, and graphics cards purchases is
missing.
I believe one should attempt purchases that reflect more what demands on
these devices are likely to be in the future than what they might be in
the present. While the future is unknown, it seems very likely that
demands for more memory, more sophisticated and faster processors will be
the future as they have been in the past. High-end graphics cards are a
requirement in the AI world we'll be living in well before you will want
to retire today's computer purchase.
Even if you can afford a computer used exclusively for amateur radio you
are likely to benefit from buying the? most powerful hardware you can
afford rather than buying what's needed for using the software hams are
using today.
+ That's a slippery slope:
1. It's not clear that high-end graphics cards will be a requirement for using AI. Yes, the development and training of Large Language Models (LLMs) currently involves the heavy use of graphics processing units (GPUs) because GPUs can rapidly execute the matrix multiplication operations employed in neural networks. However, exploiting LLMs - which is what hams would likely do - does not require such computation. Furthermore, the DeepSeek LLM demonstrates that the race for market share led many LLM developers to forgo optimizations that enable training with significantly less computation.
2. With respect to CPUs, plotting available CPU models on a price vs. performance graph generally reveals a suite spot. At the high end, paying an extra 25% to get 10% more performance makes little sense.? Larger CPU caches are worthwhile. More CPU cores will definitely make DXLab applications run faster. As described in the "Hardware Capabilities" section of
SpotCollector alone can make good use of 3 cores. One core for each additional application you expect to consume CPU cycles in parallel is a reasonable rule of thumb. Don't count the DXLab Launcher, as it only consumes significant cycles during upgrades. You won't need 256 cores unless you're going into weather forecasting.
3. With respect to RAM, more is always better. While 32 GB may be more than sufficient today, a motherboard with 32GB that is expandible to 64GB when you need it would be preferable.
4. Secondary storage - whether solid state or rotating - is easy to expand as your needs evolve. The 4 terabyte rotating drive I use for local backup connects to my laptop via USB 3.2 and cost $112! No, it won't meet my needs if I start DXing for dark matter and begin recording and analyzing data from radio telescopes, but likely other upgrades will be required if I head in that direction.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
+ AA6YQ comments below
So have I, a bit. And a VERY important issue has been missing from the discussion -- RF NOISE! Monitors and their power supplies are a well-known source of noise on our ham bands, and the last thing we need is more of that. This is an issue you're not going to be able to figure out in the showroom or on the internet -- you won't know until you fire it up and poke around it with a battery operated receiver that tunes to HF.
My favorite probe has long been a vintage Kenwood TH-F6A talkie, which has wideband RX from below the AM broadcast band to about 550 MHz, and detectors for AM, FM, and SSB.
If you don't have something like that, an inexpensive Tecsun AM/FM/shortwave receiver will do the job. They use DSP chips designed for consumer radios and their RF performance is amazingly good. My favorite hotel radio, the PL380, sells for about $55. coupled to a roof-top dipole, it is able to receive a weak FM station sandwiched between two much louder ones on the frequencies right next theirs on both sides. That's something that my vintage Technics receiver with a six-gang variable capacitor couldn't do. It sold for $500 25 years ago, and was the best you could buy.
Another issue has arisen with some models of touchscreen monitors. A member of a local club gave me a vintage Samsung with that feature that did flips when he transmitted AND produced lots of noise. I quickly re-gifted it, after figuring out that it couldn't be tamed with ferrites.
My recommendation is to try to choose from something you can buy from a vendor like Costco, who offers no questions asked returns (limited to 90 days for certain products like computers and major appliances). That way, if you get it home and it's a dog you can return it.
If you buy something that's noisy and you can't return it, check out my tutorial on finding and killing noise sources. Two versions, both pdfs. Text is
Slides for talks I've done at Pacificon, Visilia, and to several ham clubs is
+ Good point, Jim. It would be nice to establish and maintain a list of "known quiet" monitors. + Before I got my ham license in 1990,I bought a Commodore Amiga to introduce my sons to electronic music. The first time I connected it to my IC-735, there were strong birdies everywhere - on every band. I had to completely enclose the monitor in aluminum foil before I could hear any DX. ? ? 73, ? ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
On 3/26/2025 1:36 PM, Larry, K4KGG via groups.io wrote: I've followed this thread with some interest. So have I, a bit. And a VERY important issue has been missing from the discussion -- RF NOISE! Monitors and their power supplies are a well-known source of noise on our ham bands, and the last thing we need is more of that. This is an issue you're not going to be able to figure out in the showroom or on the internet -- you won't know until you fire it up and poke around it with a battery operated receiver that tunes to HF. My favorite probe has long been a vintage Kenwood TH-F6A talkie, which has wideband RX from below the AM broadcast band to about 550 MHz, and detectors for AM, FM, and SSB. If you don't have something like that, an inexpensive Tecsun AM/FM/shortwave receiver will do the job. They use DSP chips designed for consumer radios and their RF performance is amazingly good. My favorite hotel radio, the PL380, sells for about $55. coupled to a roof-top dipole, it is able to receive a weak FM station sandwiched between two much louder ones on the frequencies right next theirs on both sides. That's something that my vintage Technics receiver with a six-gang variable capacitor couldn't do. It sold for $500 25 years ago, and was the best you could buy. Another issue has arisen with some models of touchscreen monitors. A member of a local club gave me a vintage Samsung with that feature that did flips when he transmitted AND produced lots of noise. I quickly re-gifted it, after figuring out that it couldn't be tamed with ferrites. My recommendation is to try to choose from something you can buy from a vendor like Costco, who offers no questions asked returns (limited to 90 days for certain products like computers and major appliances). That way, if you get it home and it's a dog you can return it. If you buy something that's noisy and you can't return it, check out my tutorial on finding and killing noise sources. Two versions, both pdfs. Text is Slides for talks I've done at Pacificon, Visilia, and to several ham clubs is 73, Jim K9YC
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
+ AA6YQ comments below
I've followed this thread with some interest. It seems to me that an important feature of computer, monitor, and graphics cards purchases is missing.
I believe one should attempt purchases that reflect more what demands on these devices are likely to be in the future than what they might be in the present. While the future is unknown, it seems very likely that demands for more memory, more sophisticated and faster processors will be the future as they have been in the past. High-end graphics cards are a requirement in the AI world we'll be living in well before you will want to retire today's computer purchase.
Even if you can afford a computer used exclusively for amateur radio you are likely to benefit from buying the? most powerful hardware you can afford rather than buying what's needed for using the software hams are using today.
+ That's a slippery slope:
1. It's not clear that high-end graphics cards will be a requirement for using AI. Yes, the development and training of Large Language Models (LLMs) currently involves the heavy use of graphics processing units (GPUs) because GPUs can rapidly execute the matrix multiplication operations employed in neural networks. However, exploiting LLMs - which is what hams would likely do - does not require such computation. Furthermore, the DeepSeek LLM demonstrates that the race for market share led many LLM developers to forgo optimizations that enable training with significantly less computation.?
2. With respect to CPUs, plotting available CPU models on a price vs. performance graph generally reveals a suite spot. At the high end, paying an extra 25% to get 10% more performance makes little sense.? Larger CPU caches are worthwhile. More CPU cores will definitely make DXLab applications run faster. As described in the "Hardware Capabilities" section of
SpotCollector alone can make good use of 3 cores. One core for each additional application you expect to consume CPU cycles in parallel is a reasonable rule of thumb. Don't count the DXLab Launcher, as it only consumes significant cycles during upgrades. You won't need 256 cores unless you're going into weather forecasting.
3. With respect to RAM, more is always better. While 32 GB may be more than sufficient today, a motherboard with 32GB that is expandible to 64GB when you need it would be preferable.
4. Secondary storage - whether solid state or rotating - is easy to expand as your needs evolve. The 4 terabyte rotating drive I use for local backup connects to my laptop via USB 3.2 and cost $112! No, it won't meet my needs if I start DXing for dark matter and begin recording and analyzing data from radio telescopes, but likely other upgrades will be required if I head in that direction.
? ? ? 73,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
I've followed this thread with some interest. It seems to me that an important feature of computer, monitor, and graphics cards purchases is missing.
I believe one should attempt purchases that reflect more what demands on these devices are likely to be in the future than what they might be in the present. While the future is unknown, it seems very likely that demands for more memory, more sophisticated and faster processors will be the future as they have been in the past. High-end graphics cards are a requirement in the AI world we'll be living in well before you will want to retire today's computer purchase.
Even if you can afford a computer used exclusively for amateur radio you are likely to benefit from buying the? most powerful hardware you can afford rather than buying what's needed for using the software hams are using today.
K4KGG, Larry
|
Re: Tom NY4I is the new steward of the N1MM-DXKeeper Gateway
+ AA6YQ comments below
So a new user of K4-Control for Elecraft by DL8MRE? and trying to get its UDP interface working with N1MM-DXLab Gateway (v1.3.0)? So far no success.
In the app settings there is a section for UDP Broadcast- N1MM / Log4OM message. I entered my local PC ip address and port 2333 and then sent a Test msg - nothing received. Or should I be using the Subnet mask? In the Gateway app, have the same boxes checked as shown in the Gateway Online Help page.?
+ The N1MM-DXKeeper Gateway enables converts a "log QSO" directive received from N1MM via to a "log QSO" directive to DXKeeper, with some added options for callbook lookups and Clublog/eQSL/LoTW uploads. Configuration instructions are here: ? ? ? 73, ?
? ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Tom NY4I is the new steward of the N1MM-DXKeeper Gateway
So a new user of K4-Control for Elecraft by DL8MRE? and trying to get its UDP interface working with N1MM-DXLab Gateway (v1.3.0)? So far no success.
In the app settings there is a section for UDP Broadcast- N1MM / Log4OM message. I entered my local PC ip address and port 2333 and then sent a Test msg - nothing received. Or should I be using the Subnet mask? In the Gateway app, have the same boxes checked as shown in the Gateway Online Help page.? Wonder if anyone else has had any luck with the UDP feature of the new DL8MRE app?
If this is wrong forum for the question, my apologies.
?
73 Paul w2eck
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
Selecting a video card may be a bit of an oxymoron these days as
the integrated video capabilities on many of the newer systems
are more than adequate. For example, the integrated video in
the Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 based "mini PCs" rank in the high 700's
in the videocard benchmark 2D listings and handle 2, 3 or 4
monitors at 4K/120 Hz or better.
The W6DE article on selecting a monitor is valid with the key
points being specific attention to total pixels (H x V) as a
gauge of how much can be displayed at any one time and pixel
pitch (H pixels/screen width) being important to readability
of the smallest fonts (smallest details) within an application.
I found an inexpensive 35" (diagonal - 32" wide) 3440 x 1440
gaming monitor quite satisfactory 95% of the time (the only
nit is being the ability to read some of the smallest fonts, eg.
editing SQL filters in SC - which is easily addressed using the
Windows magnifier [Win-+/Win-Esc]). I am able to display
Commander, Commander Bandmap, DXView (no map), DXKeeper,
SpotCollector, WSJTX and JT Alert at the same time with spare
screen space for Waterfall Bandmap (or Commander Waterfall if
I had a supported radio).
A 43" 4K TV (3840x2160) would have approximately the same dot
pitch as my 35" 3440 x 1440 gaming monitor but would be half
again taller which might lead to "stiff neck syndrome" when
trying to see the top third of the screen.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2025-03-26 2:13 AM, Dave AA6YQ wrote: + AA6YQ comments below
An important distinction is that most of the features of these performance graphics cards are not going to be used at all with typical ham applications. Almost nothing in the ham application use 3D graphics. Instead, it's the 2D rendering performance that is key but it's not talked about at all in most card reviews. This is especially important because there is a complete and total mess in the higher end graphics market now which may confused and scare away hams from picking up a very fine graphics card that would meet their needs.
Fortunately there is a web page that will help guide relative speeds of graphic cards, both old and newer ones.
Take note at the G2D column, and sort from highest to lowest. Then just go down that list and check whatever graphic card you have an interest in.
Notice that the fastest card on the list is about 1000 in the 2D speed. The card I have in my main PC (GTX 1060) scores 770 - a card that must be at least 5 years old. It runs a trio of UHD monitors here in the shack. And you can get a similar one for under $100 on ebay.
I'm not advocating this card, rather mentioning that whatever card you are thinking of buying can be judged on it's speed by consulting this list. And anything that's on the top half (500 or more) will most certainly be completely fine for ham applications.
+ It would be nice to have a "Selecting a Video Card" article in the DXLab Wiki to go with the "Selecting a Monitor" article developed by Dave W6DE:
+ The above guidance regarding 2-dimensional rendering performance would certainly be included in "Selecting a Video Card", but there are additional considerations:
- resolution
- refresh rate
- power consumption
- physical size
- monitor connectivity (HDMI, DisplayPort, etc.)
- motherboard compatibility
+ Would someone like to take a crack at this?
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLab
+ AA6YQ comments below
An important distinction is that most of the features of these performance graphics cards are not going to be used at all with typical ham applications. Almost nothing in the ham application use 3D graphics. Instead, it's the 2D rendering performance that is key but it's not talked about at all in most card reviews. This is especially important because there is a complete and total mess in the higher end graphics market now which may confused and scare away hams from picking up a very fine graphics card that would meet their needs.
Fortunately there is a web page that will help guide relative speeds of graphic cards, both old and newer ones.
Take note at the G2D column, and sort from highest to lowest. Then just go down that list and check whatever graphic card you have an interest in.
Notice that the fastest card on the list is about 1000 in the 2D speed. The card I have in my main PC (GTX 1060) scores 770 - a card that must be at least 5 years old. It runs a trio of UHD monitors here in the shack. And you can get a similar one for under $100 on ebay.
I'm not advocating this card, rather mentioning that whatever card you are thinking of buying can be judged on it's speed by consulting this list. And anything that's on the top half (500 or more) will most certainly be completely fine for ham applications.
+ It would be nice to have a "Selecting a Video Card" article in the DXLab Wiki to go with the "Selecting a Monitor" article developed by Dave W6DE:
+ The above guidance regarding 2-dimensional rendering performance would certainly be included in "Selecting a Video Card", but there are additional considerations:
- resolution
- refresh rate
- power consumption
- physical size
- monitor connectivity (HDMI, DisplayPort, etc.)
- motherboard compatibility
+ Would someone like to take a crack at this?
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLabs
An important distinction is that most of the features of these
performance graphics cards are not going to be used at all with
typical ham applications.? Almost nothing in the ham application
use 3D graphics.? Instead, it's the 2D rendering performance that
is key but it's not talked about at all in most card reviews.?
This is especially important because there is a complete and total
mess in the higher end graphics market now which may confused and
scare away hams from picking up a very fine graphics card that
would meet their needs.
Fortunately there is a web page that will help guide relative
speeds of graphic cards, both old and newer ones.?
Take note at the G2D column, and sort from highest to lowest.?
Then just go down that list and check whatever graphic card you
have an interest in.
Notice that the fastest card on the list is about 1000 in the 2D
speed.? The card I have in my main PC (GTX 1060) scores 770 - a
card that must be at least 5 years old.? It runs a trio of UHD
monitors here in the shack.? And you can get a similar one for
under $100 on ebay.
I'm not advocating this card, rather mentioning that whatever
card you are thinking of buying can be judged on it's speed by
consulting this list.? And anything that's on the top half (500 or
more) will most certainly be completely fine for ham applications.
Good luck!
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
On 3/25/2025 3:13 AM, Richard Hill via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Henk, thank you.? It is not yet clear to me that my system
will handle 4K monitors.? I need to learn more, but I read
that Dell made several design choices in the XPS 8950 that may
limit resolutions depending on the version of 8950.? Some seem
to have motherboard limitations and DisplayPort version 1.2.?
Some had add on Intel 730 graphics cards that offer higher
performance, or so I read.? I need to learn more.
Thanks for the insight.
Rich, NU6T
On Tue, Mar 25, 2025,
12:12?AM Henk Remijn PA5KT via <pa5kt= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi,
The Intel UHD 730 chipset supports 4k resolution.
(Max 4096x2160@60Hz).
Depending on the motherboard you might not need an
additional graphics card.
I use a 32 inch 4K monitor.
Make sure it has all possible inputs: HDMI,
Displayport and USB-C. Then you can use it for future
computers.
73 Henk PA5KT
Op 25-3-2025 om 01:24 schreef Richard Hill via :
I hope this is not too far off topic.? I'm
researching graphics cards and monitors to upgrade
my shack to have more DXLabs and WSJT-X?windows.?
My current monitor is a TV/Monitor that just does
not offer enough room for much more than WSJT-X or
DXKeeper.? I do understand that I do not need all
windows open at once to be able to use DXLabs.? I
gave my daughter my old monitor and it allowed so
much more on the screen while maintaining good
detail.
My problem is I have not yet been able to
define the use case so I can decide which
combination of capabilities is best for ham
radio.? There is a good general reference on this
subject in the DXLab references.? Written by?
Dave, W6DE, it is:? ?
My computer?has an Intel UHD 730 graphics card
(max resolution is 1920 x 1080p but 1360 x 760p is
recommended).? It may well be too basic for a UHD
or 4K monitor (3840 x 2160p), and I'm not yet
convinced that a QHD 1440p monitor will meet my
needs.? I'm seeing UHD graphics cards designed for
gaming or photo editing that seem to cost as much
as a monitor.? I'm doubting that hams need all
that graphics power but I don't actually know what
capability I need to have.? My real goal is to be
able to place most of the DXLabs windows up at
once with enough sharpness to read all the
details.
I'm looking to understand what is needed in a
new graphics card to match a 4K/UHD or a 1440p
monitor without breaking the bank, grin.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks
Rich, NU6T
--
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLabs
Henk, thank you.? It is not yet clear to me that my system will handle 4K monitors.? I need to learn more, but I read that Dell made several design choices in the XPS 8950 that may limit resolutions depending on the version of 8950.? Some seem to have motherboard limitations and DisplayPort version 1.2.? Some had add on Intel 730 graphics cards that offer higher performance, or so I read.? I need to learn more.
Thanks for the insight.
Rich, NU6T
On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 12:12?AM Henk Remijn PA5KT via <pa5kt= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
The Intel UHD 730 chipset supports 4k resolution. (Max
4096x2160@60Hz).
Depending on the motherboard you might not need an additional
graphics card.
I use a 32 inch 4K monitor.
Make sure it has all possible inputs: HDMI, Displayport and
USB-C. Then you can use it for future computers.
73 Henk PA5KT
Op 25-3-2025 om 01:24 schreef Richard
Hill via :
I hope this is not too far off topic.? I'm researching
graphics cards and monitors to upgrade my shack to have more
DXLabs and WSJT-X?windows.? My current monitor is a TV/Monitor
that just does not offer enough room for much more than WSJT-X
or DXKeeper.? I do understand that I do not need all windows
open at once to be able to use DXLabs.? I gave my daughter my
old monitor and it allowed so much more on the screen while
maintaining good detail.
My problem is I have not yet been able to define the use
case so I can decide which combination of capabilities is best
for ham radio.? There is a good general reference on this
subject in the DXLab references.? Written by? Dave, W6DE, it
is:? ?
My computer?has an Intel UHD 730 graphics card (max
resolution is 1920 x 1080p but 1360 x 760p is recommended).?
It may well be too basic for a UHD or 4K monitor (3840 x
2160p), and I'm not yet convinced that a QHD 1440p monitor
will meet my needs.? I'm seeing UHD graphics cards designed
for gaming or photo editing that seem to cost as much as a
monitor.? I'm doubting that hams need all that graphics power
but I don't actually know what capability I need to have.? My
real goal is to be able to place most of the DXLabs windows up
at once with enough sharpness to read all the details.
I'm looking to understand what is needed in a new graphics
card to match a 4K/UHD or a 1440p monitor without breaking the
bank, grin.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks
Rich, NU6T
--
|
Re: Graphics cards and Monitors for the shack/ DXLabs
Dave, thank you.? Beautiful!
Rich, NU6T
+ AA6YQ comments below
I'm looking to understand what is needed in a new graphics card to match a 4K/UHD or a 1440p monitor without breaking the bank, grin.
?
Any advice will be appreciated.
+ I use a 32" HP Z32 display, whose resolution in 3840 x 2160, driven by an Nvidia GTX760. As you can see in this screenshot, it can simultaneously display SpotCollector's, DXKeeper's, DXView's, and Commander's Main windows, DXKeeper's Capture window, DXView's World Map window, Commander's Bandspread and Spectrum-Waterfall windows, the WSJT-X Main and "Wide Graph" windows, and my email client:
?
+ Amazon sells the Z32 for $1100, but they also sell a 32" Samsung display with same resolution for $300. Check objective evaluation sites like "Tom's Hardware" and ZDNet to understand the differences.
?
+ Perplexity reports that "The Nvidia GTX 760, a mid-range GPU from 2013, is roughly equivalent in performance to modern entry-level GPUs like the GTX 1650 or RTX 3050. These cards provide better efficiency, updated features (e.g., ray tracing), and support for modern games, making them suitable replacements". Amazon sells the GTX 1650 for $175. Again, check objective evaluation sites.
+ When I first began developing DXLab back in 1990, a 1280 x 1024 Eizo monitor cost $5000. My assumption about the long-term cost of screen space was accurate.
? ? ? 73,
? ? ? ? ? ?Dave, AA6YQ
|
+ AA6YQ comments below
It was the databases in DXView the caused the problem.
+ There was no "problem" - you simply forgot to copy or download the eQSL and LoTW databases to your new computer . There are step-by-step instructions to avoid this:
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: question regarding Commander
+ AA6YQ comments below
2025-03-25 20:22:08.824 > ? ?RadioFreq + theAdjustment ?= -0.01
2025-03-25 20:22:08.824 > CIVModule.SetXcvrFreq: NewFreq = -0.01, ?theBand = -1, ?QSYBand = -1
2025-03-25 20:22:08.824 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Wait
2025-03-25 20:22:08.832 > CIVModule.GetRadioSMeter: True
2025-03-25 20:22:08.841 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Frequency, count = 10
2025-03-25 20:22:08.842 > ? ?response timeout Request Frequency
2025-03-25 20:22:08.842 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 10 [Request Frequency] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:08.843 > CIVModule.RequestFrequency
2025-03-25 20:22:09.048 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 18 [Wait] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:09.253 > CIVModule.PollXcvr, Idle Mode = 9, PollCount = 12
2025-03-25 20:22:09.253 > CIVModule.RequestFrequency
2025-03-25 20:22:09.447 > CIVModule.PollXcvr, Idle Mode = 10, PollCount = 12
2025-03-25 20:22:09.448 > CIVModule.SendCommand: ?FE ?FE ?6A ?E0 ?1A ? 6 ?FD ?
2025-03-25 20:22:09.653 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 1
2025-03-25 20:22:09.827 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Wait
2025-03-25 20:22:09.828 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Request Frequency
2025-03-25 20:22:09.828 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Wait
2025-03-25 20:22:09.829 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Request Mode
2025-03-25 20:22:09.859 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 2
2025-03-25 20:22:10.065 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 3
2025-03-25 20:22:10.269 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 4
2025-03-25 20:22:10.467 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 5
2025-03-25 20:22:10.667 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 6
2025-03-25 20:22:10.871 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 7
2025-03-25 20:22:11.086 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 8
2025-03-25 20:22:11.286 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 9
2025-03-25 20:22:11.480 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 10
2025-03-25 20:22:11.481 > ? ?response timeout Request Data Submode
2025-03-25 20:22:11.481 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 18 [Wait] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:11.684 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 10 [Request Frequency] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:11.684 > CIVModule.RequestFrequency
2025-03-25 20:22:11.685 > CIVModule.SendCommand: ?FE ?FE ?6A ?E0 ? 3 ?FD ?
2025-03-25 20:22:11.886 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Frequency, count = 1
2025-03-25 20:22:12.103 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Frequency, count = 2
2025-03-25 20:22:12.294 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting respo
?
These are the errors showing up-hope this makes sense.
+ Those aren't error reports, those are diagnostics reported when you enable "Log debugging info". They indicate that Commander is not receiving responses from your IC-7800. ? ? ? ? 73, ? ? ? ? ? ?Dave AA6YQ
|
Re: question regarding Commander
?+ AA6YQ comments below
Still trying to get Commander up and running with the Icom 7800. Am using a straight through DB-9 cable. have set the 7800 ci-v to on, ci-v address to 6A in both commander and the 7800 but still appears the radio/computer link is not there. Anybody got any ideas?
+ Make sure Commander and your IC-7800 are set to the same baud rate. + You don't want "CI-V transceive" enabled, though enabling it would not prevent interaction + Contact Icom to determine the pinouts on the IC-7800's RS232 port (pins 2 and 3, specifically). Though I have an IC-7800, I used its CI-V remote port so that I can quickly switch to a backup transceiver if necessary. ? ? 73, ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ
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Re: question regarding Commander
2025-03-25 20:22:08.824 > ? ?RadioFreq + theAdjustment ?= -0.01
2025-03-25 20:22:08.824 > CIVModule.SetXcvrFreq: NewFreq = -0.01, ?theBand = -1, ?QSYBand = -1
2025-03-25 20:22:08.824 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Wait
2025-03-25 20:22:08.832 > CIVModule.GetRadioSMeter: True
2025-03-25 20:22:08.841 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Frequency, count = 10
2025-03-25 20:22:08.842 > ? ?response timeout Request Frequency
2025-03-25 20:22:08.842 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 10 [Request Frequency] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:08.843 > CIVModule.RequestFrequency
2025-03-25 20:22:09.048 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 18 [Wait] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:09.253 > CIVModule.PollXcvr, Idle Mode = 9, PollCount = 12
2025-03-25 20:22:09.253 > CIVModule.RequestFrequency
2025-03-25 20:22:09.447 > CIVModule.PollXcvr, Idle Mode = 10, PollCount = 12
2025-03-25 20:22:09.448 > CIVModule.SendCommand: ?FE ?FE ?6A ?E0 ?1A ? 6 ?FD ?
2025-03-25 20:22:09.653 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 1
2025-03-25 20:22:09.827 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Wait
2025-03-25 20:22:09.828 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Request Frequency
2025-03-25 20:22:09.828 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Wait
2025-03-25 20:22:09.829 > CIVModule.EnqueueXcvrCmd: Command = Request Mode
2025-03-25 20:22:09.859 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 2
2025-03-25 20:22:10.065 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 3
2025-03-25 20:22:10.269 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 4
2025-03-25 20:22:10.467 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 5
2025-03-25 20:22:10.667 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 6
2025-03-25 20:22:10.871 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 7
2025-03-25 20:22:11.086 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 8
2025-03-25 20:22:11.286 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 9
2025-03-25 20:22:11.480 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Data Submode, count = 10
2025-03-25 20:22:11.481 > ? ?response timeout Request Data Submode
2025-03-25 20:22:11.481 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 18 [Wait] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:11.684 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd: 10 [Request Frequency] F = 0, M = 0, A = 0, A2 = 0
2025-03-25 20:22:11.684 > CIVModule.RequestFrequency
2025-03-25 20:22:11.685 > CIVModule.SendCommand: ?FE ?FE ?6A ?E0 ? 3 ?FD ?
2025-03-25 20:22:11.886 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Frequency, count = 1
2025-03-25 20:22:12.103 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting response from Request Frequency, count = 2
2025-03-25 20:22:12.294 > CIVModule.ExecuteNextXcvrCmd awaiting respo
These are the errors showing up-hope this makes sense.
Steve, WD8NPL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Still trying to get Commander up and running with the Icom 7800. Am
using a straight through DB-9 cable. have set the 7800 ci-v to on, ci-v
address to 6A in both commander and the 7800 but still appears the
radio/computer link is not there. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks,
Steve, WD8NPL
On 3/23/2025 11:50 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> > Should the stright through cable work or do I need a null
> > modem cable?
>
> Computer is generally DTE.? Does the 7800 have a female DE9
> RS-232 connector and the computer a male DE9 connector?? If
> so, a straight through (pin for pin) connection is appropriate.
>
> It should work with connections for only pins 2,3 and 5 ...
> make sure Commander and the IC-7800 are set for the same
> CI-V address (6Ah default) and the same data communication
> rate. DO NOT use the default AUTO in the 7800 - either
> 9600 or 19200 should work fine.? Since only 2,3,5 are used,
> Commander's Primary CAT Serial Port (and MultiRadio port if
> used) should be 8,N,1, OFF/N, OFF/N ...
>
> 73,
>
> ?? ... Joe, W4TV
>
> On 2025-03-23 11:07 AM, steve baughn via groups.io wrote:
>> Good Morning All,
>>
>> Still trying to get the 7800 wired up right to the pc to get DX Lab
>> working. What I am using from the 7800 to the pc is a db9 straight
>> through cable. In the 7800 manual it says the rs232 jack is wired as
>> a modem (dce). Should the stright through cable work or do I need a
>> null modem cable? Thanks,
>>
>> Steve, WD8NPL
>>
>> On 3/22/2025 1:30 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> ??? I am running an Icom 7800 which I had hooked up to DX Lab until
>>> ??? about a year ago when we moved. I cannot remember for the life of
>>> ??? me how I had it hooked up but am thinking a ran an RS-232 cable
>>> ??? from the rig to the pc. I cannot get it to run now and am thinking
>>> ??? perhaps I do not have the right cable. Can someone please advise
>>> ??? this OM?
>>>
>>>
>>> + You must connect a COM port on your computer to an Icom CI-V
>>> interface, which is in turn connected to the Remote jack on the
>>> backpanel of your IC-7800. You can build or buy the CI-V interface; see
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> + If you have additional questions, don't hesitate to post them here.
>>>
>>> ? ? ? ? 73,
>>>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: question regarding Commander
Still trying to get Commander up and running with the Icom 7800. Am using a straight through DB-9 cable. have set the 7800 ci-v to on, ci-v address to 6A in both commander and the 7800 but still appears the radio/computer link is not there. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks,
Steve, WD8NPL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/23/2025 11:50 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
Should the stright through cable work or do I need a null
modem cable? Computer is generally DTE.? Does the 7800 have a female DE9
RS-232 connector and the computer a male DE9 connector?? If
so, a straight through (pin for pin) connection is appropriate.
It should work with connections for only pins 2,3 and 5 ...
make sure Commander and the IC-7800 are set for the same
CI-V address (6Ah default) and the same data communication
rate. DO NOT use the default AUTO in the 7800 - either
9600 or 19200 should work fine.? Since only 2,3,5 are used,
Commander's Primary CAT Serial Port (and MultiRadio port if
used) should be 8,N,1, OFF/N, OFF/N ...
73,
?? ... Joe, W4TV
On 2025-03-23 11:07 AM, steve baughn via groups.io wrote:
Good Morning All,
Still trying to get the 7800 wired up right to the pc to get DX Lab working. What I am using from the 7800 to the pc is a db9 straight through cable. In the 7800 manual it says the rs232 jack is wired as a modem (dce). Should the stright through cable work or do I need a null modem cable? Thanks,
Steve, WD8NPL
On 3/22/2025 1:30 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below
??? I am running an Icom 7800 which I had hooked up to DX Lab until
??? about a year ago when we moved. I cannot remember for the life of
??? me how I had it hooked up but am thinking a ran an RS-232 cable
??? from the rig to the pc. I cannot get it to run now and am thinking
??? perhaps I do not have the right cable. Can someone please advise
??? this OM?
+ You must connect a COM port on your computer to an Icom CI-V interface, which is in turn connected to the Remote jack on the backpanel of your IC-7800. You can build or buy the CI-V interface; see
+ If you have additional questions, don't hesitate to post them here.
? ? ? ? 73,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: Tom NY4I is the new steward of the N1MM-DXKeeper Gateway
Thanks Dave.
?
What started this is I was looking for a feature that the gateway did not provide so I discussed it with Dave and he asked if I wanted to take a look again at taking over maintenance. We had talked about in the past but other time commitments got in the way. The benefit is I could add the feature I wanted myself--which had already been implemented.
?
That feature--and I realize this is really an edge use case--is to allow SDR-Control, a Mac application from Marcus DL8MRE, which can control the Flex products as well as various radios from Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood. Additionally, there is also the latest app that controls the Elecraft K4 remotely.
?
When running with the SDR-Control applications, these apps can log to a central iCloud-hosted log. Then one has to occasionally do an ADIF export to import those QSOs into DXKeeper. That process works fine but was too manual for me :) I like to automate things where I can. SDR-Control has the ability to send a log record over UDP but it sends it in the WSJT-X standard format where it is an ADIF record wrapped in a <command> record. The change I made to the Gateway is to allow receiving this UDP message as well as the standard "N1MM UDP" messages. If SDR-Control sends that record, I will also log the record into DXKeeper.
?
The net of all of this is I can leave DXKeeper running on my shack's Windows computer, then using SDR-Control from a laptop elsewhere in the house QSOs made are automatically placed in the DXKeeper log. No ADIF export necessary. It still has all of the drawbacks of UDP of course where delivery is not guaranteed but it serves my purpose.
?
One point on the Gateway itself. It is historically named the N1MM-DXKeeper Gateway but that does not mean it can only be used by N1MM. I work on the team (along with N4AF) that maintains the TR4W contest logger. ?Many years ago after N1MM released its UDP standard for sharing contacts data, I implemented similar messages from TR4W so in my case, I use the N1MM-DXKeeper Gateway to send messages in real-time from TR4W to DXKeeper (I have since implemented a full TCP/IP interface in TR4W to send to DXKeeper without UDP but that is a different topic). Other programs also support this standard too. So if you want to send real-time QSOs from a logger to DXKeeper, check if it supports the N1MM UDP-style broadcasts and you can use the Gateway.
?
As many of you will no doubt ask, why not just export the log at the end of the contest? The main use-case for the Gateway is for the DX'er that wants to use a contest as a way to collect DX. In my case, I can rarely do a full-time competitive effort but I have time to make a few hundred contacts. I participate in the DX Marathon every year and this gives me a way to use SpotCollector to see what I need when there is a DX Contest on the air. As I work the stations in TR4W, the UDP message for the contact goes through the Gateway to DXKeeper and it updated SpotCollector's display so it no longer shows that country as needed.
?
All feature requests are welcome. I did setup an Issue tracker in the GitHub repository for the web page (the code is not in a public repository though). The issue tracker is accessible here:
?
73,
?
Tom NY4I
|
Thanks Dave
It was the databases in DXView the caused the problem.
-Kurt, KR2C
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/24/2025 9:04 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote: + AA6YQ comments below
That's ticked, Any other suggestions?
+ Yes: click the Colors button in the same pane and confirm that the Log Page Display background colors are set correctly.
+ Also visit DXView's Databases tab to confirm that you have the eQSL and LoTW databases loaded.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
|
Re: LoTW Application query
Hi to Dave and Stan,
?
Like Stan, that process is OK, but I think I will stick to my "Sticky Notes" on screen, where I keep a list of new ones worked until they are confirmed.
For the (now) two new ones that have confirmed since my LoTW application, I have marked them as "rcvd" and made them bold and in Italics.
?
Now I will just wait until my application is processed, and I will know which ones I need to check in the awards application.
?
73 de Phil GU0SUP
?
?
-----Original Message----- From: "Stan Gammons via groups.io" <buttercup11421@...> Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2025 03:06 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DXLab] LoTW Application query
Hi Dave,
On 3/24/25 21:52, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
> # AA6YQ comments below
>
> It would be handy if ADIF/Dave were to defined a 'P' (pending) status
> for those of us who prefer to manually prepare submissions as the
> confirmations arrive.
>
> # You can setup a user-defined item named "Pending" and use whatever codes you like to represent the states of your manually-managed award submissions.
>
> Using these instructions? https://dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/UserAwardProgressreports
>
> # No. This has nothing to do with user-defined award progress reports.
>
> # Here's the scenario:
>
> 1. You've used DXKeeper to generate a DXCC award application, so you have QSOs whose "QSL Rcvd" and "LoTW QSL Rcvd" items are set to 'S' ( for "submitted").
>
> 2. You're waiting for the ARRL's DXCC desk to process that application which can take months. When they notify you that your submitted QSOs have been granted DXCC Award Credit, you'd direct DXKeeper to "Verify" your submission to reflect the granting of DXCC award credit by change each 'S' in a "QSL Rcvd" and "LoTW QSL Rcvd" item to 'V'.
>
> 3. However, before you receive notice that your application has been processed, several more confirmations for previously unconfirmed DXCC entities, entity-bands, or entity-modes arrive. Instead of waiting until the DXCC desk finishes processing the application you've already submitted to complete step 2 and then direct DXKeeper to generate a new submission, the request to make it possible to manually generate a second application that includes then new LoTW confirmation. This can be done by defining a user-defined item called "Pending", and setting it to 'C' in each of those QSOs newly confirmed by QSL card, and to 'L' in each of those QSOs newly confirmed by LoTW.
>
> 4. At that point, you would
>
> 4a. make a copy of your log file
>
> 4b. direct DXKeeper to "Verify" the current submission
>
> 4c. direct DXKeeper to generate a new DXCC submission, which would automatically include those new confirmations (the ones their Pending items set to 'C' and 'L') and produce the documents needed to submit a second application
>
> 4d. revert to the Log file created in step 4a
>
> 4e. when you receive notice that your first DXCC application has been processed, you would direct DXKeeper to Verify it, changing each 'S' in a "QSL Rcvd" and "LoTW QSL Rcvd" item to 'V'
>
> 4f. then you would
>
> 4.f.1 filter the Log Page Display to contain all QSOs whose Pending item is set to 'C' and use the "Modify QSOs" function to set their "QSL Rcvd" items to 'S' and clear their Pending items
>
> 4.f.2 filter the Log Page Display to contain all QSOs whose Pending item is set to 'L' and use the "Modify QSOs" function to set their "LoTW QSL Rcvd" items to 'S' and clear their Pending items
>
> 5. when your receive notice that your second DXCC application has been processed, , you would direct DXKeeper to Verify it, changing each 'S' in a "QSL Rcvd" and "LoTW QSL Rcvd" item to 'V'
>
> Thus you will have worked around the limitation in DXKeeper's automation of DXCC award applications that only one submission can be outstanding at a time.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.? Having to do all that makes my
head hurt.? I'll pass and stay with the way I've been doing it.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
|
Tom Schaefer - NY4I
Phil Cooper