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reality
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Hello jldunn8@...,
In reference to your comment: è As far as I can find, there is no where in ACIM è where it states that "Bodies sure as hell can? harm/hurt è one another, and to deny it is inappropriate use of è denial as the Course says about the è body." We are dealing with level confusion. We know that there is no one out there .. but I know when I send out this email someone will read it and probably respond. One the ego level "Level 2" as Ken states all the time, bodies can hurt/bring pleasure, etc to other bodies On Level 1, yes, bodies do not exist ... nothingof form exists. But since we believe we are here .. do not be denial and say that your body or feelings cannot be hurt or feel pleasure. If that were the case, you would not need ACIM You would not be here.?? :-) Peace All ignorance is actually repression that |
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Jim Dunn
开云体育?
Martha
posted some interesting comments about what is real.
?>>?There's also the idea that the course teaches that we CAN'T "do harm/hurt to anyone else".<<?? ?In truth we can't. Because in truth we are still as God created us. But bodies sure as hell can harm/hurt one another. And to deny it is inappropriate use of denial as the Course says about the body. >>As long as they don't promote it as what A Course in Miracles teaches. :-) ??As far as I can find, there is no where in ACIM where it states that "Bodies sure as hell can? harm/hurt one another, and to deny it is inappropriate use of denial as the Course says about the body." What the course seems to have said is that the reason forgiveness works
is that "It never happened!.."Lesson 32 tells us we have invented the world we
see, and lesson 132, paragraph 7 gets brutally clear with this statement."THERE
IS NO WORLD!" (my emphasis)..?It goes on to add "This is the central
thought the course attempts to teach. Not everyone is ready to accept it, and
each must go as far as he can let himself be led along the road to
truth."
??? We can't have it both ways.. Either this world is a
hologram dream we invented, or it is real and people suffer and die and murder
and execute each other. To me, forgiveness is easy if I can remember that the
world is not real, that I have projected the contents of my mind "out there" so
I can blame others for my attacks.
??? In Spanish, the answer to an apology is "De Nada!" Which
literally means, "It is nothing." That's why forgiveness is
easy.
??? Would love to hear others comments on the reality of the
world.
?
Jim
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mstreet
开云体育Jim wrote:
>>As far as I can find, there is no where in ACIM where it states
that "Bodies sure as hell can? harm/hurt one another, and to deny it
is inappropriate use of denial as the Course says about the
body."<<
?
Hi Jim:
That is my interpretation of what the Course
says in several places. I will paste a couple below.
?
(T-2.IV.3.8-13)
"The body is merely part of your experience in the
physical world. Its abilities can be and frequently are overevaluated. However,
it is almost impossible to deny its existence in this world. Those who do so are
engaging in a particularly unworthy form of denial. The term
"unworthy" here implies only that it is not necessary to protect the
mind by denying the unmindful. If one denies this unfortunate aspect of the
mind's power, one is also denying the power itself."
?
( W-pI.161.6:1). "Bodies attack, but minds do not" ?
~ Martha :-)
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Jim Dunn
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mstreet
开云体育Jim
wrote:
>>I am currently hearing HS voice
asking me to hold to the highest truth I can remember in every encounter, but I
never intended to become confrontational. I need to keep reminding myself that
all my "work" or play is internal. I normally just read the posts, and perhaps should
return to that format.<<
?
No problem Jim, you were just becoming clear about your own beliefs, as far
as I can tell. ... which is basically, what I think most of us are doing.
?
~Martha :-)
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Stephen
开云体育
?Not quite, Jim.? Let's look at this exact quote of
yours:
?
"W-132.6.2??There is no world! 3 This is the
central thought the course attempts to
teach."
?
On the surface it does seem pretty clear, doesn't it??
The Course is, without question, saying "There is no world!" and it is quite
understandable why many might take this statement to mean much more than the
Author intended.? To understand it's limits you have to understand what
ACIM actually *means* by world - and to do this we need only look at Lesson 184
to find this?statement:
?
"W-184.8. Think not you made the world. 2 Illusions, yes! 3 But what
is true in earth and Heaven is beyond your
naming."
?
The "world" in ACIM is the world of Illusions - nothing
more and nothing less - and an "illusion" in the American Heritage Dictionary
(4th Ed.), Jim,?is "An erroneous perception of
reality".
?
But the *really* interesting thing about comparing these
two passages is that we can notice instantly how the?statements "There is
no world!" and "Think not you made the world.? Illusions, yes!" are saying
exactly the same thing - our egocentric world-view isn't real.? Yet,
crucially, "...what is true in earth and Heaven [and] beyond [our] naming." is
off-set against the "world of illusions" in L-184.
?
It's irrefutable.? 'Heaven and
earth' are placed over and against the world of illusions in L-184 and are
clearly stipulated?in the rest of that Lesson as *not* being part of the
illusion.? Here's the proof - just look at the first, second and then final
paragraphs of L-184:
?
"W-184.1. You live by symbols. 2 You have made up names for
everything you see. 3 Each one becomes a separate entity, identified by its own
name. 4 By this you carve it out of unity. 5 By this you designate its special
attributes, and set it off from other things by emphasizing space surrounding
it. 6 This space you lay between all things to which you give a different name;
all happenings in terms of place and time; all bodies which are greeted by a
name."
?
"W-184.2. This space you see as setting off all things from one
another is the means by which the world's perception is achieved. 2 You see
something where nothing is, and see as well nothing where there is unity; a
space between all things, between all things and you. 3 Thus do you think that
you have given life in separation. 4 By this split you think you are established
as a unity which functions with an independent
will."
?
"W-184.15. Father, our Name is Yours. 2 In It we are united with all
living things, and You Who are their one Creator. 3 What we made and call by
many different names is but a shadow we have tried to cast across Your Own
reality. 4 And we are glad and thankful we were wrong. 5 All our mistakes we
give to You, that we may be absolved from all effects our errors seemed to have.
6 And we accept the truth You give, in place of every one of them. 7 Your Name
is our salvation and escape from what we made. 8 Your Name unites us in the
oneness which is our inheritance and peace. 9
Amen."
?
And this is all fully confirmed in
the Manual for Teachers:
?
M-11.1.6? The world you see
cannot be the world God loves, and yet His Word assures us that He loves the
world. 7 God's Word has promised that peace is possible here, and what He
promises can hardly be impossible. 8 But it is true that the world must be
looked at differently, if His promises are to be accepted. 9 What the world is,
is but a fact. 10 You cannot choose what this should be. 11 But you can choose
how you would see it. 12 Indeed, you choose this.?
M-11.2. Again we come to the
question of judgment. 2 This time ask yourself whether your judgment or the Word
of God is more likely to be true.
That's not exactly true forgiveness or the?proper use
of denial in ACIM.
?
~
Stephen |
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Can we all agree to disagree - as in any great marriage or relationship? I believe as Jim does and differently than you do, but how you believe is ok with me. I do not have a desire to change your mind. I only have a desire to change my perception and no one else's. Stephen wrote:
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Stephen
开云体育
Of course, that's fine by me.? I'd be
delighted if everyone was as tolerant of others having alternative views of the
Course as yourself, Linda.? But why can't we not still?do that
and?explore the issue?
?
~
Stephen |
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