FYI: As far as I know, no one is moderated on this list. However, it
is not my group. I didn't start it and I don't have any control over
it. I cannot edit, delete or affect what is on the board. It was
started by a guy named Nelson, but he is a different Nels than
someone of a similar name who has posted here recently. The founders
e-mail address is YoungNel97@y...(Yahoo.com). As Patrick said in his
announcement that he sent out to readers of my book:

This group was started independently by a reader,
and has no affiliation
with Fearless Books or the author. However, Gary
does participate and will
answer any questions you may have about his work.

I personally do not believe in controlling what anyone else has to
say and have never done so, not even on my old board where I would
have had the power to do so. However, it is my decision whether or
not I choose to participate, and I personally will not take the time
to respond to posts of a personally critical nature, as I believe
they are beneath the dignity of serious spiritual students and do not
serve anyone. If you'd like to ask the founder any questions, please
feel free. Love and peace, Gary.

开云体育

开云体育

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Jim Dunn"
<jldunn8@c...> wrote:

Hey.. Whets the big deal? Some part of my mind that I have

rejected and

projected "out there" likes to insult.

The Course says your brother is your savior and a creation of God.
You seem to be saying your brother is a psychotic delusion of a
solipsistic Jim Dunn. How can a delusion be either your savior or
God's child?

I know, Jeanette some of us undesirables who say how they honestly
feel and think might find it and disrupt the group.

Wouldn't want any for-real, honest communication going on.

But, why not? It's so easy to invalidate them and make them into non-
persons and ignore what they have to say. If it's not what you want
to hear.

Wouldn't you think if Gary felt like this he'd suggest to the list
owner the board be RESTRICTED? (personally I think the board owner is
probably his wife, Karen. Giving him a handy cop out of "it's not my
board, I have no control over it".)

Then people from the newsgroup who might be beneath the dignity of
the highly spiritual people here wouldn't be allowed in.

If there's no one to disrupt and be seen as wrong, how can other
people feel better and more spiritual?

See, you need us unspiritual low-lives who are always writing how
we honestly feel and think and disrupting peaceful boards with our
truth.

How could you be a wonderful, kind, loving, phoney- spiritual snob
without us?

~ Carrie





--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Jeanette"
<jeanettejoy@e...> wrote:

Gary,

"However, it is my decision whether or not I choose to participate,

and I

personally will not take the time to respond to posts of a

personally

critical nature,"

My apologies for mentioning the list and offering the address.


Jeanette

--- In
Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "starchild1124"
<starchild1124@y...> wrote:

I know, Jeanette some of us undesirables who say how they

honestly

feel and think might find it and disrupt the group.

I am on quite a few African American listservs and a couple of
singing listservs ... and the "drama" that I have seen on CIMs
listservs pale in comparison, simply because on some level we are
very aware of what we are doing. Some one always chooses to be
the "saner" and we in one way or another always remind each other
to "choose once again."

However, outside of the CIM listservs, I have learned that when
I "call" myself being "honest" and what I get is "attacked" ... and
then in turn I feel "attacked" and want to "justify" my reaction to
the attack ("I was only being honest" LOL).. then I know that is an
indication that I sent my dogs out to find someone to attack me, and
on some unconscious level I want to be both the victim and
victimizer. I have done this often enough to realize where to place
the blame. :-)

In studying the Course and observing my ego, it is not about being
honest ... because when I am honest about where I am coming from I
will not feel attacked when someone disagrees.

So my lesson is when I am tempted to be "honest" is "can I deal with
the remarks that will come as a result?" And if I find that I do not
want negative responses, or only want positive responses ... then I
know what my real intent is... I want to be special, I want to be
right ... I want to be God.


Peace

Ossie

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "ynottakeall"
<BBFBBN@a...> wrote:

--- In
Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "starchild1124"
<starchild1124@y...> wrote:

I know, Jeanette some of us undesirables who say how they

honestly

feel and think might find it and disrupt the group.

I am on quite a few African American listservs and a couple of
singing listservs ... and the "drama" that I have seen on CIMs
listservs pale in comparison, simply because on some level we are
very aware of what we are doing. Some one always chooses to be
the "saner" and we in one way or another always remind each other
to "choose once again."

However, outside of the CIM listservs, I have learned that when
I "call" myself being "honest" and what I get is "attacked" ... and
then in turn I feel "attacked" and want to "justify" my reaction to
the attack ("I was only being honest" LOL).. then I know that is an
indication that I sent my dogs out to find someone to attack me,

and

on some unconscious level I want to be both the victim and
victimizer. I have done this often enough to realize where to

place

the blame. :-)

In studying the Course and observing my ego, it is not about being
honest ... because when I am honest about where I am coming from I
will not feel attacked when someone disagrees.

So my lesson is when I am tempted to be "honest" is "can I deal

with

the remarks that will come as a result?" And if I find that I do

not

want negative responses, or only want positive responses ... then I
know what my real intent is... I want to be special, I want to be
right ... I want to be God.


Peace

Ossie

Yeah, I've read a Whoopi Goldberg quote:"You can say whatever you
want if you're prepared to deal with what you get back".

But then I've also read Abraham Lincoln (supposedly) said "Just
because you can shut someone up doesn't mean you've changed how they
feel".

Then there was Steven Tyler, the singer with Aerosmith who said,
when asked about a song he wrote about a young girl who kills her
father who has been raping her-("Janey Got a Gun") and if this is a
proper subject for a song..."it what we DON'T talk about that causes
the problems."

With free communication allowed and maybe even respected, even if
everyone doesn't agree with everyone else, there is at least hope
that issues (ego though they may be) can be worked out. Without this
it's hopeless.

I've said this before and been told I'm telling people how they
should have and run THEIR board, just because I don't agree and
accept their rules on it.

Does this group have stated rules?

I didn't notice.

I know it apparently has unstated ones.

And I know I always have the choice of participating or not.

~ Carrie

开云体育

?

Peace Martha :-)

?

?

?

In a message dated 7/10/2003 11:36:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, starchild1124@... writes:

But then I've also read Abraham Lincoln (supposedly) said "Just
because you can shut someone up doesn't mean you've changed
how they
feel".

Is that the goal, to change how another person feels?

starchild1124@... writes:

when asked about a song he wrote about a young girl who kills her
father who has been raping her-("Janey Got a Gun") and if this is a
proper subject for a song..."it what we DON'T talk about
that causes
the problems."

When my son passed away, part of the grieving process was to talk about it, and to discuss it with folks who knew what I was going through and I would discuss it only in a place where it felt safe to do so.

It has now coming close to three years since his passing and now I am I getting in touch with and observing the specialness of my situation. So now I am especially mindful of what I really want to put out there when I discuss this particular aspect of my life. Is it an attempt to be special (awwwww, I am so sorry to hear that that your son passed away etc., etc.), or do I want to share with the hopes of being of assistance to others who have are going through the same thing? I vacillate between the two ... but unlike other folks who are completely identified by their role as a greiving parent, spouse, etc., I have a choice to see things differently ... and at this particular time in my life ... that is a tremendous gift.

Peace

Ossie

"Ideas Leave Not Their Source"

Hi Martha,

Nice to see you again.

I had joined this group, but didn't plan on participating until I
read the book (which is on it's way to me at this time)

Got a little sidetracked from stuff on the newsgroup, but that has
all been resolved. I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel the air
has been cleared.

Some see this as "negative" and "inappropriate behavior" but I see
it as working things out.

If we have issues and stuff them, and don't talk about them they'll
probably never get resolved and worked through and those involved
reach a peaceful understanding.

Which I believe has happened since last night.

As to having guidelines about a board/group being ACIM related, to
me all of my life is ACIM related.

I can't separate it and define what is or isn't course related.

Some people seem to have a life and find ACIM and try and fit it
in. I found ACIM and now try and have a life that fits into that.

Not saying one way is any better or more desirable than another.

~ Carrie


--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:

Carrie wrote:

Does this group have stated rules?<<

Hi Carrie:

The purpose of the group is stated on the home page.

This group is for spiritual seekers familiar with ACIM and have

read the book "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary R. Renard.
The topics of discussion should be focused on the teachings of ACIM
and the experiences of living the Course. A Course in Miracles? and
ACIM? are registered trademarks of FACIM(www.facim.org), the
copyright holder.<<

And from my understanding of the Course, purpose is everything. And

I need only be concerned with my purpose. (Something that I easily
forget. <g>) And that would be for remembering why <I> am here. And I
am not just meaning this board.

Peace Martha :-)

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., BBFBBN@a...
wrote:

In a message dated 7/10/2003 11:36:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,

starchild1124@y... writes:

But then I've also read Abraham Lincoln (supposedly) said "Just
because you can shut someone up doesn't mean you've changed
how they
feel".

Is that the goal, to change how another person feels?

Is that who's goal? It's not mine, but I get a told to "shut up"
a lot, in various ways. Subtle to outright.

People who have moderated/controlled discussion boards get to shut
people up if it's something they don't agree with and don't want to
hear. It doesn't change how the people feel, in fact might even
perpetuate and increase the grievance.

Especially when the moderation/control is unfairly used. Like no
clear rules and not applied fairly to all.

starchild1124@y... writes:

when asked about a song he wrote about a young girl who kills her
father who has been raping her-("Janey Got a Gun") and if this is

a

proper subject for a song..."it what we DON'T talk about
that causes
the problems."

When my son passed away, part of the grieving process was to talk

about it, and to discuss it with folks who knew what I was going
through and I would discuss it only in a place where it felt safe to
do so.

It has now coming close to three years since his passing and now I

am I getting in touch with and observing the specialness of my
situation. So now I am especially mindful of what I really want to
put out there when I discuss this particular aspect of my life. Is
it an attempt to be special (awwwww, I am so sorry to hear that that
your son passed away etc., etc.), or do I want to share with the
hopes of being of assistance to others who have are going through the
same thing? I vacillate between the two ... but unlike other folks
who are completely identified by their role as a greiving parent,
spouse, etc., I have a choice to see things differently ... and at
this particular time in my life ... that is a tremendous gift.

I understand what you're saying.

I don't think people always know what to say, and maybe try not
to bring it up or get into it.

There may have been times when you just wanted to vent, and
not "be nice" and hopefully others would accept this as just how you
feel and not personal attack on them.

I think the term "unconditional love" is better expressed
as "unconditional acceptance and allowing".

I was kind of upset last night (not on the same scale as losing a
child!) and felt safe enough to express that here, it seemed like a
loving and kind place. Going by the little bit of vibes, or whatever
I picked up on.

Of course this was made into a bigger deal back on the newsgroup
and I was told I had "disrupted" your peaceful group. Like if it's
really all that peaceful can one person expressing their feelings
really harm it?

Anyway, it all turned out for the best, it cleared the air and
with a little bit of email communication it seems to be over and done.

Had my posts here been deleted and how I felt invalidated, or put
down, that might not have happened. (I'm use to that on the
newsgroup, which is more a place to practice learning my lessons and
putting my beliefs into use)

Sometimes we just need to vent- let off steam, and say how we feel.

And sometimes we need to remember this when someone else is doing
it (LOL)

And I'm not going to insult you by saying I know how you feel
because of losing a child. Because I can only imagine it.

But my husband suffered a stroke 5 years ago, and has been
serverly ill and handicapped in a nursing home ever since.

I know what that is like. And I know what helps and what doesn't
from others.

You know, if nothing else, what happens to us in life- and over a
lifetime things do happen, sometimes what we had previous
thought"only happen to other people"- does give us a better idea of
what someone else in a similar situation might be going through.

We lived in northern VT with 7 children and not a lot of money and
sometimes were cold and hungry (and frustrated by the lack of
employment in the cold, rural area- we had been drawn to most of our
lives) but you know, I always know what it's like to be cold, hungry
and frustrated. Wanting to do something to help ourselves, but there
being nothing to do.

That was way before I learned ACIM (and Abraham-Hicks, and
deliberate creation, Universal Principles, etc)

Thanks for sharing with me,

~ Carrie

Peace

Ossie

"Ideas Leave Not Their Source"

---

Do you Yahoo!?
- Now only $29.95 per month!

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--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:

What a slew of posts since last I looked. :-)

Hi Carrie, you wrote:

Some people seem to have a life and find ACIM and try and fit it

in. I found ACIM and now try and have a life that fits into that.<<

I am not exactly sure of what you are meaning, but I don't think

that any of us are asked to give up whatever our life's scripts are,
in order to practice the Course. In fact it is whithin our very life
situations (whatever they maybe) that we have the opportunites of
practicing forgiveness and following what the Course teaches. At
least this is my understanding.

BTW I am glad to hear that you resolved whatever problems you were

having.:-)


I'm not always quite sure what I mean, either (LOL)

Like I was always a housewife and mother and didn't go out to
work, and spent a lot of time either with the kids, or
reading/writing letters (or both) I led a kind of sheltered life
compared to some. And it was what I wanted.

I also spent the last 15 years reading and trying to apply what
ACIM says. And I know it doesn't say we have to "give up" the ego
world of form. In fact in the PSYCHOTHERAPY pamphlet it says "Holy
Spirit knows you have earthly needs, (need money for) since you have
choisen to live in a world of form" (paraphrased from memory).

Now that my kids are grown and gone (sort of) and my husband is in a
nursing home, and I'm pretty much on my own for the first time in my
almost 60 years, I seem to be more in a "making a life" type of mode.

More "doing" (though I don't yet have a car so can't go very far-
the computer more than makes up for that).

Thus, I am trying to make a life "around" my ACIM beliefs.

Some (probably the majority) who find ACIM and start to learn it,
already have more of an "out in the world" life. Going to work,
career, with or without kids.

So, they already have the life (set up) and try and fit ACIM into
this.

As I said, not that one is anymore good/better than the other. Just
different ways of looking at it.

As to resolving the problems I had (very briefly) here, that is
mainly Karen's doing. She emailed me and made the first move.

Making the second one is a lot easier if someone else has already
make the first (LOL)



~ Carrie