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A + P used to mean something

 

"Goose" wrote:

Hi Gary,


I represent the part of your mind that knows A & P are ego inventions
you concocted because you suspected (rightly) that nobody would pay
any attention to what YOU thought ACIM means.

I am here to remind you that it was a cheap, unworthy and dishonest
trick.


HONK!

Hi Goose. Actually, you represent the part of my mind that mistakenly
believes it has separated itself from God, and now in its erroneous
guilt is hiding in a world of judgment and condemnation. Happily, the
separation from God never really occurred, and I forgive you, my
brother, for what you have not really done. That is the way home for
me, and when you choose it, also for you. Love and peace, Gary.
 

Renard wrote: Hi Goose. Actually, you represent the part of my mind
that mistakenly believes it has separated itself from God, and now in
its erroneous guilt is hiding in a world of judgment and
condemnation. Happily, the separation from God never really occurred,
and I forgive you, my brother, for what you have not really done.
That is the way home for me, and when you choose it, also for you.
Love and peace, Gary.



That's OK, Gary. You aren't the first person to try to sell your
soul to make a buck or to achieve your fifteen minutes of fame, even
if you are one of the more obvious about it. You lie for self-
serving reasons, like yesterday when you posted on TRCM as "Zak" and
pretended to be from Endeavor -- for no purpose other than to promote
your book. You will deny that, I'm sure, but you have sucked your
publisher into your petty deception, even though the fact of your
deception is patent. It is rather like when your wife fist posted on
TRCM to promote your book and overtly pretended to not even know you.

You don't need my forgiveness for your childishness, but you do need
to face it yourself and deal with the fear that motivates you. Plus,
you might really reconsider the wisdom and usefulness to you
personally, not to mention how it might affect others, of your habit
of lies, for this is what you are actually teaching whether you
comprehend it or not.


HONK!
 

Good morning, Frank. Thanks for the opportunity to help me self-reflect. Hmm... the whole idea of a book and how it affects me. It is a symbol to me, actually, of everything. Did Gary make me buy this book. No, Gary did not let me know in any way about his book. It was recommended to me by a friend. Based on the knowledge that my friend and I have very similar ideas about things, I bought the book. But it was my decision alone by asking myself if I wanted it? Who made me believe the book? No one out there in the world. It was myself who chose to. I can change my mind at any time about believing it. I absolve any guilt or responsibility from Gary or anyone else from whatever I do or don't do. Even the Course. One of my favorite lines from the Course is this:
?
Empty your mind of everything it thinks is either true or false, or good or bad, of every thought it judges worthy, and all the ideas of which it is ashamed. Hold onto nothing. Do not bring with you one thought the past has taught, nor one belief you ever learned before from anything. Forget this world, forget this course [and Gary's book - my words], and come with wholly empty hands unto your God.
?
The Course, Gary's book, everything I see or hear are tools for me. It is entirely up to me what I do with them, and there is no good nor bad. So as for myself, it makes no difference whether it is true or not as to what you speak. I take full responsibility for myself blaming no one for taking advantage of little ole me, because, you see, nobody really can in the whole world. So, if you feel so moved, you may take me off your list of victims.

goostaphalous wrote:
Renard wrote: Hi Goose. Actually, you represent the part of my mind
that mistakenly believes it has separated itself from God, and now in
its erroneous guilt is hiding in a world of judgment and
condemnation. Happily, the separation from God never really occurred,
and I forgive you, my brother, for what you have not really done.
That is the way home for me, and when you choose it, also for you.
Love and peace, Gary.

That's OK, Gary. You aren't the first person to try to sell your
soul to make a buck or to achieve your fifteen minutes of fame, even
if you are one of the more obvious about it. You lie for self-
serving reasons, like yesterday when you posted on TRCM as "Zak" and
pretended to be from Endeavor -- for no purpose other than to promote
your book. You will deny that, I'm sure, but you have sucked your
publisher into your petty deception, even though the fact of your
deception is patent. It is rather like when your wife fist posted on
TRCM to promote your book and overtly pretended to not even know you.

You don't need my forgiveness for your childishness, but you do need
to face it yourself and deal with the fear that motivates you. Plus,
you might really reconsider the wisdom and usefulness to you
personally, not to mention how it might affect others, of your habit
of lies, for this is what you are actually teaching whether you
comprehend it or not.

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- Now only $29.95 per month!
 

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?
----- Original Message -----
From: LindaL
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Linda: [snip] "The Course, Gary's book, everything I see or hear are tools for me. It is entirely up to me what I do with them, and there is no good nor bad. So as for myself, it makes no difference whether it is true or not as to what you speak. I take full responsibility for myself blaming no one for taking advantage of little ole me, because, you see, nobody really can in the whole world. So, if you feel so moved, you may take me off your list of victims."
?
?
It is interesting how people will take what I write and use it as a launching pad to discuss a totally unrelated subject.? I am no more concerned about Gary Renard "victimizing" you (or anyone else) than I am with a used car salesman victimizing an unsophisticated and trusting car buyer, even though that type of transaction is much more costly.? So, you can? just forget whatever it is that you though I was talking about, because you didn't get it.
?
So, without getting yourself bogged down in the good vs. bad of it all, in a very short period of time Renard has, either directly or in cooperation with others (his wife & D. Pat Miller), injected several self-promoting bare faced lies into the on-line world of ACIM, that I am aware of.? This is in addition to the fact that the whole premise of his literary device involving A & P visitations and discussions is a lie.?
?
That's just the way it is.? If you choose to buy a used car from Renard, that's your problem, but your choice does not detract from the fact you will buy something that is based upon and commercially promoted by misrepresentations.
?
Best of luck to you.
?
?
HONK!
 

Thanks again, Frank.
?
Yes, I understood what you said and incompletely answered you, which would be the same thing as answering myself.
?
Never mind what Gary says. The Course says there are no victims and attackers. A liar would?be like someone attacking me. The Course says I made up this world. It also says there is no world out there. So what I see is a lie. The whole world is a lie. EVERYTHING but the Atonement. That I made. I made Gary. I made you. I made the used car salesmen. All to avoid God. Gary didn't say that. Nor Arten nor Pursah. It is in the Course. So the only difference in how you are seeing it and how I am attempting to see it and succeeding sometimes is that I chose to make up the whole lie of the world and everything in it including Gary and you. Even my talking to you I see as an illusion - that I'm really talking to myself as I am the Son and so are you every bit as the Son.
T18.VI.1-2. There is nothing outside you. That is what you must ultimately learn, for it is the realization that the Kingdom of Heaven is restored to you.
?
W.pI.132.6.1. There is no world because it is a thought apart from God, and made to separate the Father and the Son, and break away a part of God Himself and thus destory His Wholeness.
?
THERE IS NO GARY!!! THERE IS NO BOOK!!!
?

FRANK MANNIS wrote:
?
----- Original Message -----
From: LindaL
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Linda: [snip] "The Course, Gary's book, everything I see or hear are tools for me. It is entirely up to me what I do with them, and there is no good nor bad. So as for myself, it makes no difference whether it is true or not as to what you speak. I take full responsibility for myself blaming no one for taking advantage of little ole me, because, you see, nobody really can in the whole world. So, if you feel so moved, you may take me off your list of victims."
?
?
It is interesting how people will take what I write and use it as a launching pad to discuss a totally unrelated subject.? I am no more concerned about Gary Renard "victimizing" you (or anyone else) than I am with a used car salesman victimizing an unsophisticated and trusting car buyer, even though that type of transaction is much more costly.? So, you can? just forget whatever it is that you though I was talking about, because you didn't get it.
?
So, without getting yourself bogged down in the good vs. bad of it all, in a very short period of time Renard has, either directly or in cooperation with others (his wife & D. Pat Miller), injected several self-promoting bare faced lies into the on-line world of ACIM, that I am aware of.? This is in addition to the fact that the whole premise of his literary device involving A & P visitations and discussions is a lie.?
?
That's just the way it is.? If you choose to buy a used car from Renard, that's your problem, but your choice does not detract from the fact you will buy something that is based upon and commercially promoted by misrepresentations.
?
Best of luck to you.
?
?
HONK!


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ideaofgod
 

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., LindaL
<lklanglois@y...> wrote:

Never mind what Gary says. The Course says there are no victims and
attackers.

It says the Son of God cannot be attacked, but it makes it very clear
that in our usual terms attack is both possible and a bad idea.


A liar would be like someone attacking me.
I would say a lie is more like a miscreation; in fact, thw two
concepts are very similar.

The Course says I made up this world.
Citation? Where, exactly, does it say this, and how do you relate
that to all the other things which get said about this topic in the
Course?

"The whole world is a lie. EVERYTHING but the Atonement. That I
made."

Citation? Where does it say you made the atonement? As for the world
being a lie, if you buy the idea that space-time is a learning
device, it follows it is a part of the atonement.

I made Gary.
Citation? GOD created Gary. This is the authority problem in a
nutshell. You are not God the Father; get over it.

"I made you. I made the used car salesmen. All to avoid God. Gary
didn't say that. Nor Arten nor Pursah. It is in the Course."

It is not. Please give a citation for this claim.
 

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You are so welcome, Linda.
?
Here is my brief summary of what you explained to me, except in different words.? Your philosophy is "Everything is a lie, so what's one more?"
?
Is this correct?
?
?
?
HONK!
?

----- Original Message -----
From: LindaL
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Thanks again, Frank.
?
Yes, I understood what you said and incompletely answered you, which would be the same thing as answering myself.
?
Never mind what Gary says. The Course says there are no victims and attackers. A liar would?be like someone attacking me. The Course says I made up this world. It also says there is no world out there. So what I see is a lie. The whole world is a lie. EVERYTHING but the Atonement. That I made. I made Gary. I made you. I made the used car salesmen. All to avoid God. Gary didn't say that. Nor Arten nor Pursah. It is in the Course. So the only difference in how you are seeing it and how I am attempting to see it and succeeding sometimes is that I chose to make up the whole lie of the world and everything in it including Gary and you. Even my talking to you I see as an illusion - that I'm really talking to myself as I am the Son and so are you every bit as the Son.
T18.VI.1-2. There is nothing outside you. That is what you must ultimately learn, for it is the realization that the Kingdom of Heaven is restored to you.
?
W.pI.132.6.1. There is no world because it is a thought apart from God, and made to separate the Father and the Son, and break away a part of God Himself and thus destory His Wholeness.
?
THERE IS NO GARY!!! THERE IS NO BOOK!!!
?

FRANK MANNIS wrote:
?
----- Original Message -----
From: LindaL
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Linda: [snip] "The Course, Gary's book, everything I see or hear are tools for me. It is entirely up to me what I do with them, and there is no good nor bad. So as for myself, it makes no difference whether it is true or not as to what you speak. I take full responsibility for myself blaming no one for taking advantage of little ole me, because, you see, nobody really can in the whole world. So, if you feel so moved, you may take me off your list of victims."
?
?
It is interesting how people will take what I write and use it as a launching pad to discuss a totally unrelated subject.? I am no more concerned about Gary Renard "victimizing" you (or anyone else) than I am with a used car salesman victimizing an unsophisticated and trusting car buyer, even though that type of transaction is much more costly.? So, you can? just forget whatever it is that you though I was talking about, because you didn't get it.
?
So, without getting yourself bogged down in the good vs. bad of it all, in a very short period of time Renard has, either directly or in cooperation with others (his wife & D. Pat Miller), injected several self-promoting bare faced lies into the on-line world of ACIM, that I am aware of.? This is in addition to the fact that the whole premise of his literary device involving A & P visitations and discussions is a lie.?
?
That's just the way it is.? If you choose to buy a used car from Renard, that's your problem, but your choice does not detract from the fact you will buy something that is based upon and commercially promoted by misrepresentations.
?
Best of luck to you.
?
?
HONK!


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I am so glad you asked, Frank, because it is an opportunity for me to tell a story, and I love to tell stories.
?
It is my belief that the whole purpose for me in this world is to learn forgiveness and part of that forgiveness is that there is no world. What I see out there is my own projection. If I have a beef with someone, it is really a beef I have within myself that I don't want to look at, so instead of looking at the other person, I forgive by looking inside myself and finding it there.
?
Well, once upon a time, I was furious with someone whom I thought had really betrayed me. The worst part of the betrayal was that he had lied to me in the worst way. The scenario was very juicy and set up to make me look like a victim. Most of the world would definitely think I had a "right" to be angry. Needless to say, I most definitely did think that the world was real and that this person was real and a body and - shall I say it? SINFUL! Of course, I did not use those words as I was not brought up in a church that used them, but the idea was the same. Furthermore, I could see that it wasn't me that lied. I am very conscious of not lying. It is a thing with me to be honest. Between bouts of anger at this guy, I had times when I was actually trying to practice the Course. My understanding of the Course is that I was not a victim, and he was not an attacker, that the world was unreal - something I created to hide my imagined guilt. That indeed I was projecting my own lying onto this guy. In fact this guy was a gift to me to help me see that. In fact, this guy wasn't really a guy, a body, but a gift that could help me see the truth if I turned the tables on the ego.
?
I brought up the story in my Course group and said that I didn't lie. One of the more courageous members said that, yes, I did (as he, too, knows it is all a projection). Well, I struggled and struggled unable to see where I had lied. Of course, the workbook lesson, I am not upset for the reason I think came to mind. I knew that I wasn't upset for this whole thing - that it was something far deeper, and I knew that the more resistance there is in finding the projection in myself that the more fear I have in having it exposed, so I bury it deeper. That is why is was so hard for me to see.
?
I struggled with this whole thing for some time, because in reality - subconsciously - I did not want to see it. Finally, I saw that what I was upset about in the world out there - my guy friend, the world, etc. was not the lie I saw out there, but the lie that was in me. First I saw that I did lie - to God. How many times had I told God that all I really wanted was to be with Him, and how many times had I not made the choices in my mind that would bring me to Him. Way, way more than the times that I did. But underneath it all, I saw that in making the whole world, I had made a lie. I made the lie,. and I was believing the lie. Once I realized this, I could laugh, and it was a wonderful release. I felt the Self smiling along with me. All that I went through to deny that I made a far, far huger lie than my friend did. And so, I forgave him and love for one another that is in truth how we all feel for each other underneath this illusion - well, I caught a glimpse.
?
So Frank, the message I meant to convey was not so much that it is about lies, but way more than that, that there is no world, and that if that is seen, forgiveness - true forgiveness if possible. (The lies are just a part, not the whole. I did leave some very good citations for you. What did you think of them?) How can it be otherwise? Is not the only way to see that nothing ever happened? If there is a belief in the world and bodies and Karen and Gary and the book and Ken and on and on - whatever the beef - and as Ossie said, the Indians, the whites, the blacks, hey, and depending on your persuasion, the Iraqians, or Bush or both or on and on and on... how can there be forgiveness? How can I forgive myself? There are?several lessons in the workbook that say I am not a body. No world either. If that is seen, what other conclusion can there be that no one has done anything? To believe anything differently would make forgiveness impossible.
?
So more and more, I learn to look at not what is out there, but what is in me. I have countless more stories like that that I can tell, if you would like to hear them. Starchild, welcome.

FRANK MANNIS wrote:
You are so welcome, Linda.
?
Here is my brief summary of what you explained to me, except in different words.? Your philosophy is "Everything is a lie, so what's one more?"
?
Is this correct?
?
?
?
HONK!
?
----- Original Message -----
From: LindaL
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Thanks again, Frank.
?
Yes, I understood what you said and incompletely answered you, which would be the same thing as answering myself.
?
Never mind what Gary says. The Course says there are no victims and attackers. A liar would?be like someone attacking me. The Course says I made up this world. It also says there is no world out there. So what I see is a lie. The whole world is a lie. EVERYTHING but the Atonement. That I made. I made Gary. I made you. I made the used car salesmen. All to avoid God. Gary didn't say that. Nor Arten nor Pursah. It is in the Course. So the only difference in how you are seeing it and how I am attempting to see it and succeeding sometimes is that I chose to make up the whole lie of the world and everything in it including Gary and you. Even my talking to you I see as an illusion - that I'm really talking to myself as I am the Son and so are you every bit as the Son.
T18.VI.1-2. There is nothing outside you. That is what you must ultimately learn, for it is the realization that the Kingdom of Heaven is restored to you.
?
W.pI.132.6.1. There is no world because it is a thought apart from God, and made to separate the Father and the Son, and break away a part of God Himself and thus destory His Wholeness.
?
THERE IS NO GARY!!! THERE IS NO BOOK!!!
?

FRANK MANNIS wrote:
?
----- Original Message -----
From: LindaL
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Linda: [snip] "The Course, Gary's book, everything I see or hear are tools for me. It is entirely up to me what I do with them, and there is no good nor bad. So as for myself, it makes no difference whether it is true or not as to what you speak. I take full responsibility for myself blaming no one for taking advantage of little ole me, because, you see, nobody really can in the whole world. So, if you feel so moved, you may take me off your list of victims."
?
?
It is interesting how people will take what I write and use it as a launching pad to discuss a totally unrelated subject.? I am no more concerned about Gary Renard "victimizing" you (or anyone else) than I am with a used car salesman victimizing an unsophisticated and trusting car buyer, even though that type of transaction is much more costly.? So, you can? just forget whatever it is that you though I was talking about, because you didn't get it.
?
So, without getting yourself bogged down in the good vs. bad of it all, in a very short period of time Renard has, either directly or in cooperation with others (his wife & D. Pat Miller), injected several self-promoting bare faced lies into the on-line world of ACIM, that I am aware of.? This is in addition to the fact that the whole premise of his literary device involving A & P visitations and discussions is a lie.?
?
That's just the way it is.? If you choose to buy a used car from Renard, that's your problem, but your choice does not detract from the fact you will buy something that is based upon and commercially promoted by misrepresentations.
?
Best of luck to you.
?
?
HONK!


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Jeanette
 

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Hey Linda,
?
"It is my belief that the whole purpose for me in this world is to learn forgiveness and part of that forgiveness is that there is no world."
?
Although our metaphysics disagrees to a degree, I am enjoying reading you once again.
?
I feel on reading your messages your heart and mind is open to a forgiving attitude which has offered you much good, and extended itself as love and understanding in your world.
?
I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.
?
I have enjoyed reading what you and others are offering here. No matter what the metaphysics, or approach it seems, all that matters is a forgiving mind, and an open heart.
?
?
Jeanette
 

I agree, Jeanette. Thank you for joining with me.
?
Love,
Linda

Jeanette wrote:
Hey Linda,
?
"It is my belief that the whole purpose for me in this world is to learn forgiveness and part of that forgiveness is that there is no world."
?
Although our metaphysics disagrees to a degree, I am enjoying reading you once again.
?
I feel on reading your messages your heart and mind is open to a forgiving attitude which has offered you much good, and extended itself as love and understanding in your world.
?
I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.
?
I have enjoyed reading what you and others are offering here. No matter what the metaphysics, or approach it seems, all that matters is a forgiving mind, and an open heart.
?
?
Jeanette


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- Now only $29.95 per month!
Jeanette
 

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Linda,
?
"I agree, Jeanette. Thank you for joining with me."
?
It certainly is good to feel a part of, a joining with, a reunion of minds, a knowing of togetherness. Such outcomes only do good, and they offer to everyone in my world a desire they know they are a part of God, too.
?
And that's how I look at it. The Course states we know the Holy Spirit through our brother, and right mindedness sets our Vision on a course of forgiveness in order for us to be a conduit for love in the world.
?
This group seems to be doing a good job of just that.
?
?
Jeanette
?
mstreet
 

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Jeanette wrote:
?
>>I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.<<
?
Hi Jeanette:
?
I guess I have to agree with you in that I too believe the world exists. As Ossie pointed out, when I look in the mirror I still see me, looking back at me. So obviously I think I exist.
?
Not that I believe that is the truth in the ultimate sense. As it says in the Introduction to the Course.
?
"Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God."
?
I am still working on accepting that.
?
Peace Martha :-)
Jeanette
 

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Martha,
?
"I am still working on accepting that."
?
Good to hear from you again.
?
Long time, no see. :-)
?
I reckon we are all working on some matters. I like what Gary mentioned about "his plate." I also like thinking about what I should put on the altar.
?
?
Jeanette?
?
 

I think the world does exsist, because we are creating it with our
minds. And choosing to be part of it.

Personal reality and combined/mass consciousness reality overall.

Just that we can remember on a Higher Level it's not Truth, which
is that we are all One and One with God.

And not take what seems to be real and happening "in the world" too
seriously.

As Jesus said "in the world but not of it".

Detached from ego issues, that don't really matter in the overall
scope of things.

"Does this really matter"? and such... And *I* am the one who is
hurt and/or benefits by which teacher I choose to listen to at any
given time.

Something to aim for anyway.

~ Carrie





--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:
Jeanette wrote:

I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is
my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and
how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.<<

Hi Jeanette:

I guess I have to agree with you in that I too believe the world
exists. As Ossie pointed out, when I look in the mirror I still see
me, looking back at me. So obviously I think I exist.

Not that I believe that is the truth in the ultimate sense. As it
says in the Introduction to the Course.

"Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God."

I am still working on accepting that.

Peace Martha :-)
[email protected]
 

Hello starchild1124@...,

In reference to your comment:
è I think the world does exsist, because we are creating
è it with our? minds. And choosing to be part of it.

è "Does this really matter"? and such... And *I* am the
è one who is? hurt and/or benefits by which teacher I
è choose to listen to at any? given time.???? Something to
è aim for anyway.

In the long run, it does not matter.? :-)

This topic? was somewhat discussed when I was in Atlanta.? And one of the things that Ken cautions Course students is to judge or get into debates about the way people do the Course.?

He emphasized that the Course teaches that, even though it is not our experience, there is no world, we are not here (even though we think we are), that there is nothing good about this world, this world was made as an attack, with the ego's motto of kill or be killed which is reflected in everything in form, and that the only way out of it is through forgiveness.? This is reflected all throught out the Course.??

But if Course students start judging one another because of differences on how they perceive the Course, then the same thing will happen to the Course as did the Bible.

So I have learned when folks say something about the Course that I know is not in it, I just realize that is where they are and they are receiving from the Course exactly what they need.

But for me, I have run into too many teachers over the years who subtly in one way or another try to make this world real, try to make this world a better place to live .. etc., etc., and that is not my goal. So when I find myself in that situation ... I just leave .. I do not debate or argue about it.?

I try to find the Teachers that teach what is in the Course.? Ken is one,? Joe Jessup of the Course_talk is another one ... and after reading Disappearance ... Arten and Pursah in their own unique style say the same thing ... This world is not here .. nothing is going on here ... they repeat that over and over again and they emphasize that the only way out of here, the way to speed up the process is through forgivness which is realizing that we never left home, the mad idea did not happen ... etc., etc.

So for me, I stick to groups and Teachers that do not in any way make this world real.? I do that enough on my own and I need all the help I get to remember
that I am as God created me and my ultimate goal is to wake up.

Peace

All ignorance is actually repression that
exists in order to produce a particular effect
for a specific reason.? :-)
Jim Dunn
 

开云体育

?
?
?
Jim Dunn

-----Original Message-----
From: mstreet [mailto:mastreet@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:21 AM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Jeanette wrote:
?
>>I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.<<
?
??As Ossie pointed out, when I look in the mirror I still see me, looking back at me. So obviously I think I exist.
?
"Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God."
?
Dear gang,
??? All of us are"here" in the dreamscape we call this world simply because we have allowed our minds to cherish a hodge-podge of beliefs that are contradictory and self cancelling.? Lesson 307 tells us that "Conflicting beliefs cannot be my will."?
??????? We know instinctively that the process of "unlearning" is our true vocation, and that forgiveness is the task at hand. What we often fail to realize is how our languaging reinforces our attachment to the world. When we say, as Jeanette did, "I DO feel that the world exists, and so does my brother," we are unconsciously reaffirming a false belief.
??? Now it may sound like nit-picking, but I have found that ACIM has provided me a delightful word it uses so frequently when talking about the world of dreams.And i try to use this word in examining my beliefs..
One of my favorite course quotes is from chapter 21.. Responsibility for Sight...? "And everything that SEEMS to happen to me, I have asked for and received as I have asked."
???? So I might? loosen my grip on the delusion by saying,"I SEEM to believe the world exists, and my brother as well." This moves me to a position of not being so rigid, so stuck.
??? At a family reunion I was given a bunch of pictures of myself? from earlier years, and I started laughing at how I have "appeared" in so many excarnations. A skinny young boy, a yound? adult.. etc. etc. It occurred to me that all these images that I looked upon were not me. So I went to the mirror, and looked at my current presentation, and laughed outloud. IT WASN'T ME EITHER!
?
So, as to relanguaging.. I try to use the word "seems" more and more. It allows my mind to release the death grip it holds on so many cherished beliefs. It may portend the "little willingness" the course suggests.
"I SEEM to get upset. I SEEM to see you as confused. I seem, I seem.... I seem to be in this world."
?
I seem to be too wordy! But then again, I seem to know you all will forgive me.
?
Love and light to all. We walk hand in hand in our journey without distance to a place we never left.
?
Jim Dunn
?


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Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...



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Jeanette
 

开云体育

Jim,
?
"When we say, as Jeanette did, "I DO feel that the world exists, and so does my brother," we are unconsciously reaffirming a false belief."
?
I tend to believe in Creation. I find we each have a Soul, and are Part of God, and God asks us to see The World He Created, instead of the one we have miscreated. I feel my Vision is totally dependent upon my willingness to remain within right mindedness which is where the Holy Spirit enters the picture.
?
When I see my brother, or a flower, or hear a bird's song, I know Love is there, only removing the obstacles to my view of Love, will offer me The World for which Jesus teaches.
?
We do disagree, and that's ok. Life is for learning, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
?
?
?
Jeanette
sonnetone
 

开云体育

Hi Jim,
I liked your post and would tend to agree that we are kept in the dream because we still believe and treat it as real.
Douglas Harding developed an excellent way to show you there is no one there-it kind of freaks you a bit when you do it-www.headless.org?
David

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Dunn
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

?
?
?
Jim Dunn
-----Original Message-----
From: mstreet [mailto:mastreet@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:21 AM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: A + P used to mean something

Jeanette wrote:
?
>>I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.<<
?
??As Ossie pointed out, when I look in the mirror I still see me, looking back at me. So obviously I think I exist.
?
"Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God."
?
Dear gang,
??? All of us are"here" in the dreamscape we call this world simply because we have allowed our minds to cherish a hodge-podge of beliefs that are contradictory and self cancelling.? Lesson 307 tells us that "Conflicting beliefs cannot be my will."?
??????? We know instinctively that the process of "unlearning" is our true vocation, and that forgiveness is the task at hand. What we often fail to realize is how our languaging reinforces our attachment to the world. When we say, as Jeanette did, "I DO feel that the world exists, and so does my brother," we are unconsciously reaffirming a false belief.
??? Now it may sound like nit-picking, but I have found that ACIM has provided me a delightful word it uses so frequently when talking about the world of dreams.And i try to use this word in examining my beliefs..
One of my favorite course quotes is from chapter 21.. Responsibility for Sight...? "And everything that SEEMS to happen to me, I have asked for and received as I have asked."
???? So I might? loosen my grip on the delusion by saying,"I SEEM to believe the world exists, and my brother as well." This moves me to a position of not being so rigid, so stuck.
??? At a family reunion I was given a bunch of pictures of myself? from earlier years, and I started laughing at how I have "appeared" in so many excarnations. A skinny young boy, a yound? adult.. etc. etc. It occurred to me that all these images that I looked upon were not me. So I went to the mirror, and looked at my current presentation, and laughed outloud. IT WASN'T ME EITHER!
?
So, as to relanguaging.. I try to use the word "seems" more and more. It allows my mind to release the death grip it holds on so many cherished beliefs. It may portend the "little willingness" the course suggests.
"I SEEM to get upset. I SEEM to see you as confused. I seem, I seem.... I seem to be in this world."
?
I seem to be too wordy! But then again, I seem to know you all will forgive me.
?
Love and light to all. We walk hand in hand in our journey without distance to a place we never left.
?
Jim Dunn
?


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

 

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., BBFBBN@a...
wrote:
Hello starchild1124@y...,

In reference to your comment:
è I think the world does exsist, because we are creating
è it with our minds. And choosing to be part of it.

è "Does this really matter"? and such... And *I* am the
è one who is hurt and/or benefits by which teacher I
è choose to listen to at any given time. Something to
è aim for anyway.

In the long run, it does not matter. :-)

This topic was somewhat discussed when I was in Atlanta. And one
of the
things that Ken cautions Course students is to judge or get into
debates about
the way people do the Course.
Of course, then he might have to try and explain how his views
about suing people over the words in it relates to what it says in it.

I recently read a quote from him about this, saying that he was
suing over it because of some agreement "we made" when we came to
earth to live in form. Maybe to go by the rules of the world, that
the people in it have decided on?

How does that relate to all the course says, like "to have, give
all to all" and we can only keep something by giving it away?

And "we are under not laws but the laws of God's?"

If he were open to debate about what the course says, he would be
asked those questions.

Good practice in not judging Ken, accepting him as he is, and
giving it to the HOly Spirit to take care of.

But for me, I have run into too many teachers over the years who
subtly in
one way or another try to make this world real, try to make this
world a better
place to live .. etc., etc., and that is not my goal. So when I
find myself in
that situation ... I just leave .. I do not debate or argue about
it.

Me too, I have a kind of bell that goes off in my head when I pick
up on this stuff. LIke making the body real, and offering ways to
then "heal" it.


I think it comes down to whatever feels "right" for each of us.

~ Carrie



He emphasized that the Course teaches that, even though it is not
our
experience, there is no world, we are not here (even though we
think we are), that
there is nothing good about this world, this world was made as an
attack, with
the ego's motto of kill or be killed which is reflected in
everything in form,
and that the only way out of it is through forgiveness. This is
reflected all
throught out the Course.

But if Course students start judging one another because of
differences on
how they perceive the Course, then the same thing will happen to
the Course as
did the Bible.

So I have learned when folks say something about the Course that I
know is
not in it, I just realize that is where they are and they are
receiving from the
Course exactly what they need.

But for me, I have run into too many teachers over the years who
subtly in
one way or another try to make this world real, try to make this
world a better
place to live .. etc., etc., and that is not my goal. So when I
find myself in
that situation ... I just leave .. I do not debate or argue about
it.

I try to find the Teachers that teach what is in the Course. Ken
is one,
Joe Jessup of the Course_talk is another one ... and after reading
Disappearance
... Arten and Pursah in their own unique style say the same
thing ... This
world is not here .. nothing is going on here ... they repeat that
over and over
again and they emphasize that the only way out of here, the way to
speed up
the process is through forgivness which is realizing that we never
left home,
the mad idea did not happen ... etc., etc.

So for me, I stick to groups and Teachers that do not in any way
make this
world real. I do that enough on my own and I need all the help I
get to
remember
that I am as God created me and my ultimate goal is to wake up.

Peace

All ignorance is actually repression that
exists in order to produce a particular effect
for a specific reason. :-)
 

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Jeanette"
<jeanettejoy@e...> wrote:
MessageJim,

When I see my brother, or a flower, or hear a bird's song, I know
Love is
there, only removing the obstacles to my view of Love, will offer
me The
World for which Jesus teaches.
So, you are saying that if I see a problem with my brother, it's
really only my own mind/perception and this is all that ever has to
change?

Not anyone else?

LIke there really aren't any mean,unkind people "in the world" who
lie and attack us- in need of defense and counterattack, including
calling them names, and ignoring/shunning them?

That's always how I saw what the course says.

It's never anyone else, only my own mind perceiving it, and
the "someone else" (something else) will change just as soon as I
change my mind.

And feel the joy of God instead of pain.

~ Carrie



We do disagree, and that's ok. Life is for learning, and I wouldn't
have it
any other way.



Jeanette

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