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Re: Negativity
Hi, everyone -
Well, I have to say during the interchange the past week or two my peace has been disturbed and it looks to me the same is true for most of you on this list - although I realize that is judgment and projection on my part. Yesterday my Inner Teacher guided me to the Introduction to Chapter 11. If you read all of paragraphs 3 and 4 the Answer is there. I don't think I need to quote it but will if anyone wants. The light is in me. The closer I come to the foundation of the ego's thought system, the clearer the light becomes. Yet the little spark in my mind is enough to lighten it. I will bring this light "fearlessly" with me and bravely hold it up to the foundation of the ego's thought system. I will be willing to judge it with perfect honesty. We all know - or should know as ACIM students - that form is an illusion and we should be concerned with content. My brother can say the Urtext is the true teaching of Jesus - and he is right for him. For me it is ACIM - and I am right for me. However the Urtext and ACIM are both form. It is the content that is important. So let's all let that light shine and quit arguing about who is right. I want to be happy. I usually don't sign off with love, because I don't know what love is. But I am willing to find out and in the end what I perceive to be "all of us" will know. I will say my peace has returned. I am spirit - I am as God created me. Judy |
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Re: Pursah, 41 illusory years, etc.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "garyrrenard" <garyrrenard@...> To: <Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:41 PM Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: Pursah, 41 illusory years, etc. Billy wrote:Gary wrote:Hope I am not too off topic, but this helps me to digest theunreality ARTEN: ...As Einstein noted, past, present and future all occurExactly what Jon Mundy learned from his NDE (near death experience.) I was fascinated by NDE's up until a couple of years ago when I got more deeply into ACIM. Thanks to ACIM and the teachers who have helped me to understand the metaphisics more clearly, I have moved a bit above that fascination to just acception that the HS speaks to us in ways that we can understand. In the end I am the only one out there - that one still has to become part of me. Judy |
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Re: Negativity
Hello jupete@...,
In reference to your comment: ¨¨ Well, I have to say during the interchange the past ¨¨ week or two my peace has been disturbed and it looks ¨¨ to me the same is true for most of you on this list - ¨¨ although I realize that is judgment and projection on ¨¨ my part. I forgive you.? :-) All ignorance is actually repression that |
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Re: Pursah, 41 illusory years, etc.
Hello jupete@...,
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Show quoted text
In reference to your comment: ¨¨ I was fascinated by NDE's up until a couple of years ¨¨ ago when I got more deeply into ACIM.? Thanks to ¨¨ ACIM and the teachers who have helped me to ¨¨ understand the metaphisics more clearly, I have moved ¨¨ a bit above that fascination to just acception that the ¨¨ HS speaks to us in ways that we can understand.? In ¨¨ the end I am the only one out there - that one still has ¨¨ to become part of me. Amen Judy I had the same fascination with folks who are able to speak to the dead. I would watch those shows all the time and after a while I realized that those on the other side had egos, in other words there was nothing special about them, other than to those who needed to have contact with them? When you do the Course and realize all the special relationships we have with the dead and undead ... really makes this whole world insane. LOL That is why is Pursah and Arten did not make a big deal out of how they came here ...? they told Gary what he needed to know, what he was able to accept and at times humored him ... but they were very clear as to why they were there ... to remind Gary to get started on his forgiveness work. All ignorance is actually repression that ----- Original Message -----
From: "garyrrenard" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:41 PM Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: Pursah, 41 illusory years, etc. >Billy wrote: >>Hope I am not too off topic, but this helps me to digest the >unreality >of time, and can see Pursah appearing from a future state, to >the present, thorough the past.? It is all occuring right now in this >instant, and all we have to recognize at this point is the importance >of >forgiving our dream scripts, to remember the resplendent truth that we >never left home. > >Billy > >Thanks Billy. The rest of your post was excellent too, as were a >couple of others on this subject. It all reminded me of an exchange I >recorded with Arten on P.59. Gary wrote: >ARTEN: ...As Einstein noted, past, present and future all occur >simultaneously. >GARY: That Einstein was a really smart guy. >ARTEN: Yes, but he still had to learn it actually never happened at >all. Exactly what Jon Mundy learned from his NDE (near death experience.) I was fascinated by NDE's up until a couple of years ago when I got more deeply into ACIM.? Thanks to ACIM and the teachers who have helped me to understand the metaphisics more clearly, I have moved a bit above that fascination to just acception that the HS speaks to us in ways that we can understand.? In the end I am the only one out there - that one still has to become part of me. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Naturally Painless &Spray Away Backaches &Joint Pain. $19.97 ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ |
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Re: I know what I'm going to do
Hello cracker.jack@...,
In reference to your comment: ¨¨ And when correction is completed, time IS ¨¨ eternity."? (ACIM ¨¨ Urtext) my ego likes that. All ignorance is actually repression that From: Gene Bogart ? "And when correction is completed, time IS eternity."? (ACIM Urtext) ? (Told you it was more interesting than you think! ;-) ? ~ Stephen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the . |
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Re: Actually, Gene's being nice so far...
sa_grippe
You've made it quite clear you don't much like Jesus. Shall I digup the quotes?No, let me do the footwork, because I think you'd have a hard time coming up with quotes where I actually said I don't "like" Jesus. What I've often said is what I say in the Foreword to DISAPPEARANCE: "As shocking as it may sound to other ACIM students, I've never much cared whether Jesus Christ had anything to do with it. The authenticity of the Course has been verified me because it *works* ... but *not* because it purports to have a divine source." That is, my focus on the Course has always been primarily utilitarian, not religious. Paradoxically, that's what I think the message of Jesus has always been: "Don't worship me, but do the work of forgiveness as I have done it, so that you can eventually recognize we are no different." I try to do that work on a regular basis, and I've made some progress over the years. That's how I can keep calling you -- in all sincerity -- a fine fellow, even as you continue to question my integrity, intelligence, etc., and so on. If you do come up with quotes about me not liking Jesus, please do footnote them with date, time, IP address from which I posted it, the full documentation of my bad words against Jesus... the whole ball of wax. I'll want to show it to Him tomorrow at our Putt Putt date, even though I know what he'll say already: "Good ol' Gene. He's a fine fellow, isn't he? Now, shall I give you a handicap on the windmill?" |
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Re: Urtext
Stephen
From: "garyrrenard" <garyrrenard@...>
To: <Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:07 AM Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Urtext Gene Bogart wrote:Tsk, Tsk, silly boy."Now, we know that time does not exist." (ACIM Urtext, pg. 35)Thanks Gene. There's just no getting away from it, is there? You can't just answer one quote with another - they just cancel each other out and you would be left without any answer at all. You have to find a way to make things *congruent*, Gary. What are you left with if you don't? Saying that this quote..... "God created time so that man could use it creatively, and convince himself of his own ability to create. Time is a teaching device, and a means to an end. It will cease when it is no longer useful for facilitating learning." (ACIM Urtext) .... is wrong, while this quote.... "Now, we know that time does not exist." (ACIM Urtext) ..... is right? Why should that be the case? Why isn't it the other way around? And why did the Author say something that you must be syaing is wrong in the first place? Or is there more to it than that? Sadly, too many Course students when faced with this issue and others like it are all too tempted to just deal with the quotes they like and ignore those they can't fathom. But the funny thing is it's totally unnecessary: "And when correction is completed, time IS eternity." (ACIM Urtext) ..... and well I never! Is it not possible that if "time IS eternity" when correction is completed, the Universe is also Heaven when correction is completed: "But the swiftness with which your new and ONLY real perception will be translated into knowledge, will leave you only an instant to realize that this judgment is true. And then everything you made will be forgotten, the good and bad, the false and the true. For as Heaven and earth become one, even the real world will vanish from your sight. The end of the world is not its destruction, but its TRANSLATION into Heaven. The REINTERPRETATION of the world is the transfer of ALL perception to knowledge." (ACIM Urtext) TheWhat are actually trying to say with this statement? Whatever you're trying to say, the JCIM pretty much "is" the Urtext minus the conversational stuff and 'special messages'. and theLOL that was done later by Helen, withThat would be Ken assisting Helen with the editing when she slept through parts of it? The Hugh Lynn version and the blue book are very much the same,See above, you're talking nonsense. The Blue Book is 're-worked' while the JCIM is best described as just missing some material. Plus, there is a comparisons document going around which with the JCIM which shows exactly how extensive the editing was. especially in the heart of the Course, Text Chapters 15 on.So it's alright that the first half of the Course (there are 31 chapters) is heavily edited? And you're wrong anyway. I'm just after opening up my comparisons document and scrolling down to "Chapter 15" and the scroll bar on the side of my word-processor lies about two thirds of the way down. That still means plenty of changes in the second half of the Course. ~ Stephen |
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Re: Urtext
ideaofgod
--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "garyrrenard"
<garyrrenard@y...> wrote: The funny thing is, since most of the people who study the Urtext alsoYou've taken a poll, or did Pursah tell you? In other words, by the end of the Text they both mean the same thing.This sentence makes no sense. They either say the same thing or they do not; in some cases, they do not. |
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Re: Actually, Gene's being nice so far...
ideaofgod
--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "sa_grippe"
<sa_grippe@y...> wrote: chance. It is simply a fact that I am an intellectual. If the word "intelligentsia" bothers you, or the implication it might apply to me, I suggest it is your ego problem. The ego "lives" by comparison. However, Course students should trying to learn differently, and get over the idea that they are egos, that the ego has value as such, or that their value is given by the value of their ego. Case in point:It does not imply any such thing. This incredibly confused thinking does at least show you need not worry about the question. If your value depends on intelligence, then you are in trouble. By the way, why the majuscule? Those of you who find the book sound, worthwhile, and inspiring -- the 99.75% ofthere in the Smarts Department with Gene.Are you attacking me because you think this is true, but I shouldn't have suggested it, or because you think it isn't true? So thanks once again, Gene, for the comic relief. Jesus loves youYou've made it quite clear you don't much like Jesus. Shall I dig up the quotes? |
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Re: Forgiveness question
I peeked at Stephen's brief posting and saw this: (Martha is first.)
Hi Stephen:I am not sure I am following you completely, but perhaps you can help me with this: how do you feel the Course suggests that we come to realize our Oneness? Essentially, Martha, this is just the Lessons. For a better understanding look at Lessons 28, 29 and 184. ~ Stephen I couldn't help but notice that Stephen recommended Lesson 29, "God is in everything I see" yet he conveniently forgot to mention Lesson 30: "God is in everything I see because God is in my mind." A Course in Miracles does *not* seek to make the world real or bring God into it. The two Lessons are about switching over to the Holy Spirit's way of seeing. Or as this same Lesson 30 puts it, "The idea for today is the springboard for vision." Love and peace, Gary. |
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Re: I know what I'm going to do
Stephen
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
?
"And when
correction is completed, time IS eternity."? (ACIM
Urtext)
?
(Told you it was more interesting than you
think! ;-)
?
~
Stephen |
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Re: Forgiveness Question
Stephen
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
Essentially, Martha, this is just
the?Lessons.? For a better understanding look at Lessons 28, 29 and
184.
?
~
Stephen |
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Re: Pursah, 41 illusory years, etc.
Billy wrote:
Hope I am not too off topic, but this helps me to digest theunreality of time, and can see Pursah appearing from a future state, to the present, thorough the past. It is all occuring right now in this instant, and all we have to recognize at this point is the importance of forgiving our dream scripts, to remember the resplendent truth that we never left home. Billy Thanks Billy. The rest of your post was excellent too, as were a couple of others on this subject. It all reminded me of an exchange I recorded with Arten on P.59. ARTEN: ...As Einstein noted, past, present and future all occur simultaneously. GARY: That Einstein was a really smart guy. ARTEN: Yes, but he still had to learn it actually never happened at all. |
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PURSAH: I PRACTICED THE COURSE FOR 41 YEARS
Paul wrote:OK...BUT "THE MANUSCRIPT FOR A COURSE IN MIRACLES WAS COMPLETED IN 1973." IF PURSAH PRACTICED FOR 41 YEARS AND IT TOOK GARY 9 YEARS TO WRITE THE BOOK...IT DOESN'T ADD UP. Hi Paul, I remind you of what Arten said on P.21-22 of "Disappearance." "...our bodies symbolize the last earthly identities we had. We won't tell you when that was, because it's in your future and we don't want to get into a pattern of giving you information about what is seemingly yet to come." So Arten and Pursah's final lifetimes, which Pursah is describing when she says she practiced the Course for 41 years, are in our future. Thus she could have practiced the Course from say, 2052 to 2093 and it wouldn't matter that the Course was completed in 1973, or how long it took me to write the book. For more, see P.249-253. Also, remember that when Pursah speaks in the past tense it's because time is over for her. The situations being described are in the future. I hope that clarifies things for you. Love and peace, Gary. |
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Urtext
Gene Bogart wrote:
"Now, we know that time does not exist." (ACIM Urtext, pg. 35)Thanks Gene. There's just no getting away from it, is there? The funny thing is, since most of the people who study the Urtext also believe that the Hugh Lynn Casey version of the Course was supposed to be the "final" edit (by Bill) then that would mean there are even *fewer* differences in meaning when you compare Bill's edit and the more professional, published one that was done later by Helen, with Ken acting as her assistant. The Hugh Lynn version and the blue book are very much the same, especially in the heart of the Course, Text Chapters 15 on. In other words, by the end of the Text they both mean the same thing. There was an artistic process involved for Jesus to get the reader (and an admittedly fearful Helen) to the truth that the Course is teaching. Peace, Gary. |
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Re: Forgiveness question
I am continuing to re-read your book, and have just started Chapter3, "The Miracle." Thanks again, Gary, for being available to us all here. I am glad that your book is selling so well. Peace, Elizabeth Thanks again Elizabeth. I'll be curious to know your impressions of the book after another reading, ie. does it sink in more, do you notice things you didn't notice the first time, will it make it more helpful to you? Let me know. Love and peace, Gary. |
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Nothing Special
Maybe there are those "out there" who are jealous because Arten andPursah appeared to you and not them, Gary. I know I am just a leeetle bit. As Ossie says ......sighing. Judy I think there may be some of that going on, Judy. But I don't think there's any need for it. Arten and Pursah always stressed how *no one* should feel slighted if they don't have certain mystical experiences. For example, most people don't hear Jesus' Voice the way Helen did, or have what the Course describes in Lesson 15 as "light episodes" or see The Great Rays or experience Revelation. That's because everyone's gifts and abilities are different from lifetime to lifetime. Yet *all* of us either have, or will, experience all spiritual gifts in one dream lifetime or another. As the Course says, no one has any powers that are not available to everyone. (M62) I met Ted Poppe and had a long talk with him in Massachusetts on July 5. We've had a lot of similar experiences. Yet most of these experiences come as a result of spiritual work, and especially forgiveness. So the focus should not be on the illusory gifts but on the means to healing the mind. Maybe someone doesn't have a lot of obvious spiritual gifts, but they spend a lifetime forgiving people. Then in the next illusory lifetime they find that they have all these spiritual powers and they don't know where they came from! I know when people used to ask Helen Schucman to ask the Holy Spirit for advice as to what they should do, she'd sit them down and pray with them for the Holy Spirit to guide them to forgiveness so they would better be able to hear His Voice for themselves. So I think the focus should be put on the means and not the end. Love and peace, Gary. |
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Re: Actually, Gene's being nice so far...
Jeanette
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThe
Grippe wrote:
?
"So
I took it right to Jesus Himself, who's been renting a little walk-up over on
Addison Street"
?
LOL
?
I'm
quite sure if we are not careful someone will pull the rug on the Atonement, and
cause great harm, by sharing their personal metaphysical
experiences.
?
?
Jeanette
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