---

Do you Yahoo!?
- Now only $29.95 per month!

Sheila,

".as if we've had a "disappearance" of conflict within our own group."

Perhaps a healthy dose of forgiveness. Sounds good to me.


Jeanette

---

Do you Yahoo!?
- Now only $29.95 per month!

So, as to relanguaging.. I try to use the word "seems" more and more. It
allows my mind to release the death grip it holds on so many cherished
beliefs. It may portend the "little willingness" the course suggests.
"I SEEM to get upset. I SEEM to see you as confused. I seem, I seem....
I seem to be in this world."

Jim and All,

I seem to just LOVE you guys and this seemingly healthy and whole approach to this forum on "Disappearance" and ACIM. What seems to have been negative energy the other day now seems to have dissipated...as if we've had a "disappearance" of conflict within our own group.

We seem to be "agreeing to disagree" as well. That seems to be way cool!!!

Peace to All....


Sheila

Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.

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Carrie wrote: --- In
Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "garyrrenard"
<garyrrenard@y...> wrote:

It seems to me there are an awful lot of people having an awful lot
of FUN around here. What's the matter with you guys? Don't you know
the Course is for SERIOUS spiritual students? LOL.

And don't you remember this whole mess started because we forgot to
laugh?

Yup, I do. Just joking! As Pursah says on P.348
of "Disappearance," "One of the Holy Spirit's finest tools is
laughter, my brother. If you take the world too seriously, it will
take you." Love and peace, Gary.

Hey Carrie. Yes, I feel like things are being resolved in a very
good way too, and I never thought you and I had a problem. Isn't it
interesting you grew up in Revere, Massachusetts? I grew up about 20
miles north of you in Beverly (I was born in Salem, the next town
over.) And you're right, my last name is French, Renard meaning "fox".
Lewiston, Maine does have a large French population. A lot of
French people moved down from Canada about a hundred and fifty years
ago and built up the place. But I never had any connection to the
area until I moved up here to Poland Spring (where the water comes
from) about 13 and a half years ago from Massachusetts. It's sunny as
you say, but it sure is cold in the winter! The experiences described
in the book started about 10 and a half years ago, about 3 years
after I moved here. I do live in the Lewiston area, but not in
Lewiston itself. Right now I'm in Auburn, still at the same place
that I moved to at the end of 1999, as mentioned in the book. I never
actually said what town I was in for the book, (I think I had some
delusion about privacy, LOL) but most of it happened on White Oak
Hill in Poland, Maine.
It's great to have you here, and I hope you like the book. Let
me know what you think. Love and peace, Gary.


Hi Gary,

Sorry about last night, I kind of overreacted (I have all fire and
air signs and tend to combust)

But it all worked out, and I feel it's resolved (in a really good
way) with Patrick and Karen.

"All things are lessong God would have us learn", and such.

I don't know about you, I don't think you and I had a problem to
start with (LOL)

btw, are you originally from MA? You mentioned going there and one
of your emails (that Karen used) seems to indicate that. But then I
think your name is french, and Lewiston was a predominately french
area, at least at one time. We used to get the paper from there (long
ago) and considered it as a place to move to.

For some reason I always think of it as sunny (don't know why, I
haven't seen it all that much)

Just wondering about MA because I grew up in Revere, North(Shore)
of Boston.

~ Carrie

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "garyrrenard"
<garyrrenard@y...> wrote:

It seems to me there are an awful lot of people having an awful lot
of FUN around here. What's the matter with you guys? Don't you know
the Course is for SERIOUS spiritual students? LOL.

And don't you remember this whole mess started because we forgot to
laugh?

I've often thought of that and wondered if this is the way to get
back- reverse it?

Like the comics of the world.

And notice how so many of them live such a long time- because of
making people laugh and giving so much of themselves?

Bob Hope, George Burns for example.

Though there was Freddie Prinz who committed suicide at a very young
age.

Maybe he laughed himself out of his body.

And who says "leaving the body" is something all that bad?

If anything it's nothing.

~ Carrie

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:

I am listening to Ken's workbook lesson tapes. In lesson 26, "My

attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability" in chapter 3, in
the first paragraph it says: "The idea for today introduces the
thought that you always attack yourself first."

Then Ken said: "If I perceive you as attacking me, and I react in

that way as if it were true, it is only because I attacked first. In
my mind. This has nothing to do with behavior. That is what that line
at the end of "The Dynamics of the Ego" in chapter 11 says: "If he
speaks not of Christ to you, you spoke not of Christ to him."

"Again we are not talking about what other people are doing. We are

talking about our perception of what other people are doing. And by
this, we mean our interpretation, that they are attacking us. It
doesn't mean that you don't see attack thoughts in other people.
Jesus is seeing attack thoughts in all of his students. It's when you
judge against them, your making them real."

To me, it seems like you would have to be a saint or like Jesus

himself, not to judge against people you perceive as attacking. I
know the Course itself, says, the ego always speaks first, and it is
always wrong. And that everything is basically reducible to love or
fear. Love or a call for love. But is there anyone that is so
constantly right minded that they see it this way all of the time?

Just wondering? Martha

I think it's mainly something to aim for, and pull back to, over
and over when we slip.

If we were perfect we wouldn't be here.

And, of course we continually have to forgive and not attack
ourself.

But Ken is very good at clearly explaining the concepts and
lessons in the course.

I bascially remember them, because of this.

Like content and form and how he said "you can read the newspaper
to someone from a content of love and heal" (the form doesn't matter)

Of course, coming from a content of love, you would have love in
your own mind,(and be healed) and regardless of what you were
reading, would "see only love" in others.

The newspaper would just be a prop.

~ Carrie

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., BBFBBN@a...
wrote:

In a message dated 7/10/2003 11:36:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,

starchild1124@y... writes:

But then I've also read Abraham Lincoln (supposedly) said "Just
because you can shut someone up doesn't mean you've changed
how they
feel".

Is that the goal, to change how another person feels?

Is that who's goal? It's not mine, but I get a told to "shut up"
a lot, in various ways. Subtle to outright.

People who have moderated/controlled discussion boards get to shut
people up if it's something they don't agree with and don't want to
hear. It doesn't change how the people feel, in fact might even
perpetuate and increase the grievance.

Especially when the moderation/control is unfairly used. Like no
clear rules and not applied fairly to all.

starchild1124@y... writes:

when asked about a song he wrote about a young girl who kills her
father who has been raping her-("Janey Got a Gun") and if this is

a

proper subject for a song..."it what we DON'T talk about
that causes
the problems."

When my son passed away, part of the grieving process was to talk

about it, and to discuss it with folks who knew what I was going
through and I would discuss it only in a place where it felt safe to
do so.

It has now coming close to three years since his passing and now I

am I getting in touch with and observing the specialness of my
situation. So now I am especially mindful of what I really want to
put out there when I discuss this particular aspect of my life. Is
it an attempt to be special (awwwww, I am so sorry to hear that that
your son passed away etc., etc.), or do I want to share with the
hopes of being of assistance to others who have are going through the
same thing? I vacillate between the two ... but unlike other folks
who are completely identified by their role as a greiving parent,
spouse, etc., I have a choice to see things differently ... and at
this particular time in my life ... that is a tremendous gift.

I understand what you're saying.

I don't think people always know what to say, and maybe try not
to bring it up or get into it.

There may have been times when you just wanted to vent, and
not "be nice" and hopefully others would accept this as just how you
feel and not personal attack on them.

I think the term "unconditional love" is better expressed
as "unconditional acceptance and allowing".

I was kind of upset last night (not on the same scale as losing a
child!) and felt safe enough to express that here, it seemed like a
loving and kind place. Going by the little bit of vibes, or whatever
I picked up on.

Of course this was made into a bigger deal back on the newsgroup
and I was told I had "disrupted" your peaceful group. Like if it's
really all that peaceful can one person expressing their feelings
really harm it?

Anyway, it all turned out for the best, it cleared the air and
with a little bit of email communication it seems to be over and done.

Had my posts here been deleted and how I felt invalidated, or put
down, that might not have happened. (I'm use to that on the
newsgroup, which is more a place to practice learning my lessons and
putting my beliefs into use)

Sometimes we just need to vent- let off steam, and say how we feel.

And sometimes we need to remember this when someone else is doing
it (LOL)

And I'm not going to insult you by saying I know how you feel
because of losing a child. Because I can only imagine it.

But my husband suffered a stroke 5 years ago, and has been
serverly ill and handicapped in a nursing home ever since.

I know what that is like. And I know what helps and what doesn't
from others.

You know, if nothing else, what happens to us in life- and over a
lifetime things do happen, sometimes what we had previous
thought"only happen to other people"- does give us a better idea of
what someone else in a similar situation might be going through.

We lived in northern VT with 7 children and not a lot of money and
sometimes were cold and hungry (and frustrated by the lack of
employment in the cold, rural area- we had been drawn to most of our
lives) but you know, I always know what it's like to be cold, hungry
and frustrated. Wanting to do something to help ourselves, but there
being nothing to do.

That was way before I learned ACIM (and Abraham-Hicks, and
deliberate creation, Universal Principles, etc)

Thanks for sharing with me,

~ Carrie

Peace

Ossie

"Ideas Leave Not Their Source"

As far as "Disappearance" in particular, I think it may be because

the book

presents Course-oriented material in a very "down to earth" manner;

sort of

"sit down, have a drink and we'll discuss it" -- and this makes the

concepts

SO accessible (and perhaps particularly so to those for whom the

Course has

not fully resonated yet), that the ego sees this as an exceptional

threat.

So doesn't the Urtext/original manuscript of the course, where
Jesus casually talks about subjects like sex, homosexuality and
mental retardation.

Sort of like the Conversations with God books, where God talks on
any and all topics. Like the real reason marijuana is illegal (LOL)

If we are All One and One with God (and Jesus) than "they" would
be readilly accessible and open to talk to and listen to about any
and all subjects.

It's only words. Form. In this case squggles on a computer screen.

~ Carrie

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Sheila Bush"
<namastebush@h...> wrote:

Thank you, Gene...I, too, am appreciative of all the reminders from

one and

all.
I have to wonder, though, what is it that is so fear producing about
the various perspectives of the Course, and "Disappearance" in

particular?

Sheila

Wouldn't this be fear in your own mind, projected?

If you had no fear yourself, you couldn't and wouldn't "see
fear" in anyone else, about anything else.

At least this is my understanding of what ACIM teaches.

I haven't read Gary's book yet, but I have had ACIM for around
15 years, and don't believe I have any fear about it.

~ Carrie

I think the world does exsist, because we are creating it with our
minds. And choosing to be part of it.

Personal reality and combined/mass consciousness reality overall.

Just that we can remember on a Higher Level it's not Truth, which
is that we are all One and One with God.

And not take what seems to be real and happening "in the world" too
seriously.

As Jesus said "in the world but not of it".

Detached from ego issues, that don't really matter in the overall
scope of things.

"Does this really matter"? and such... And *I* am the one who is
hurt and/or benefits by which teacher I choose to listen to at any
given time.

Something to aim for anyway.

~ Carrie





--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:

Jeanette wrote:

I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is

my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and
how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.<<

Hi Jeanette:

I guess I have to agree with you in that I too believe the world

exists. As Ossie pointed out, when I look in the mirror I still see
me, looking back at me. So obviously I think I exist.

Not that I believe that is the truth in the ultimate sense. As it

says in the Introduction to the Course.

"Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God."

I am still working on accepting that.

Peace Martha :-)

Hi Gary,

Sorry about last night, I kind of overreacted (I have all fire and
air signs and tend to combust)

But it all worked out, and I feel it's resolved (in a really good
way) with Patrick and Karen.

"All things are lessong God would have us learn", and such.

I don't know about you, I don't think you and I had a problem to
start with (LOL)

btw, are you originally from MA? You mentioned going there and one
of your emails (that Karen used) seems to indicate that. But then I
think your name is french, and Lewiston was a predominately french
area, at least at one time. We used to get the paper from there (long
ago) and considered it as a place to move to.

For some reason I always think of it as sunny (don't know why, I
haven't seen it all that much)

Just wondering about MA because I grew up in Revere, North(Shore)
of Boston.

~ Carrie




--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "garyrrenard"
<garyrrenard@y...> wrote:

Does this group have stated rules?

I didn't notice.

I know it apparently has unstated ones.

And I know I always have the choice of participating or not.

~ Carrie

Hi Carrie, As far as I know the group has no rules, and as you

should

be able to see for yourself by now, people are free to say anything
they want. I believe in freedom of speech, and when you get the

book

in the mail you'll see that Pursah says very early, "You will find

we

are very free with our speech indeed." I like to follow their
example. Also, I don't feel superior to you and I don't have any
problem with you saying how you feel. Sometimes the reason I don't
respond to posts is just because I have a lot of other things on my
plate right now. Love and peace, Gary.

Hi Martha,

Nice to see you again.

I had joined this group, but didn't plan on participating until I
read the book (which is on it's way to me at this time)

Got a little sidetracked from stuff on the newsgroup, but that has
all been resolved. I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel the air
has been cleared.

Some see this as "negative" and "inappropriate behavior" but I see
it as working things out.

If we have issues and stuff them, and don't talk about them they'll
probably never get resolved and worked through and those involved
reach a peaceful understanding.

Which I believe has happened since last night.

As to having guidelines about a board/group being ACIM related, to
me all of my life is ACIM related.

I can't separate it and define what is or isn't course related.

Some people seem to have a life and find ACIM and try and fit it
in. I found ACIM and now try and have a life that fits into that.

Not saying one way is any better or more desirable than another.

~ Carrie


--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:

Carrie wrote:

Does this group have stated rules?<<

Hi Carrie:

The purpose of the group is stated on the home page.

This group is for spiritual seekers familiar with ACIM and have

read the book "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary R. Renard.
The topics of discussion should be focused on the teachings of ACIM
and the experiences of living the Course. A Course in Miracles? and
ACIM? are registered trademarks of FACIM(www.facim.org), the
copyright holder.<<

And from my understanding of the Course, purpose is everything. And

I need only be concerned with my purpose. (Something that I easily
forget. <g>) And that would be for remembering why <I> am here. And I
am not just meaning this board.

Peace Martha :-)

God's Higher Court Just Handed Out Some CITATIONS:

I'd like to share some CITATIONS from the Course for you
newcomers.
First, about, "I made you. It is in the Course.": "...What if you
recognized this world is an hallucination? What if you really
understood you made it up?" (T443) About God making the world and
people, not!: "The reality of death is firmly rooted in the belief
that God's Son is a body. And if God created bodies, death would
indeed be real. But God would not be loving." (M66-67) "The world you
see is an illusion of a world. God did not create it, for what He
creates must be eternal as Himself." (CL85) About God creating any
part of the world, not!: "There is no world! This is the central
thought the Course attempts to teach." (W243) About the unseen,
unconscious mind controlling bodies, as if they were ROBOTS, but
cleverly masking this control through the forces of the
universe: "The body appears to be largely self-motivated and
independent, yet it actually responds only to the intentions of the
mind." (PRxii) About unconscious guilt being the driving force behind
this world: "Guilt asks for punishment, and its request is granted.
Not in truth, but in the world of shadows and illusions built on
sin." (T554) About non-duality. Duality = 2. (This is for you
mathematicians out there.) Non-duality = 1, which is non-twoness.
Thus oneness means no division. Duality (2) = DIVISION. Thus oneness
= NON-DUALITY. Two or more (division) = ego. "The ego is the part of
your mind that believes in division. How could a part of God detach
itself without believing it is attacking Him?" (T84) The
solution? "Forgiveness is the central theme that runs throughout
salvation, holding all its parts in meaningful relationships, the
course it runs directed and its outcome sure." (W324) Love and peace,
Gary.