Re: What is so fear producing...

Jeanette

#312

开云体育

Gene Bogart wrote:

?

"a very "down to earth" manner; sort of "sit down, have a drink and we'll discuss it" --

?

My kind of world.

?

Jeanette

Re: Re-Posting: FYI: I have no control over this board

[email protected]

#311

In a message dated 7/10/2003 11:36:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, starchild1124@... writes:

But then I've also read Abraham Lincoln (supposedly) said "Just 
because you can shut someone up doesn't mean you've changed 
how they 
feel".Is that the goal, to change how another person feels?

starchild1124@... writes:

when asked about a song he wrote about a young girl who kills her 
father who has been raping her-("Janey Got a Gun") and if this is a 
proper subject for a  song..."it what we DON'T talk about 
that causes 
the problems."When my son passed away, part of the grieving process was to talk about it, and to discuss it with folks who knew what I was going through and I would discuss it only in a place where it felt safe to do so.  

It has now coming close to three years since his passing and now I am I getting in touch with and observing the specialness of my situation.  So now I am especially mindful of what I really want to put out there when I discuss this particular aspect of my life.  Is it an attempt to be special (awwwww, I am so sorry to hear that that your son passed away  etc., etc.), or do I want to share with the hopes of being of assistance to others who have are going through the same thing?  I vacillate between the two ... but unlike other folks who are completely identified by their role as a greiving parent, spouse, etc., I have a choice to see things differently ... and at this particular time in my life ... that is a tremendous gift.

Peace

Ossie

"Ideas Leave Not Their Source"

Re: What is so fear producing...

#310

I have to wonder, though, what is it that is so fear producing about
the various perspectives of the Course, and "Disappearance" in particular?
- SheilaI think it's as Jesus says in the Course, "the ego is afraid of you",
because it "realizes" that when you discover the Truth about yourself, it
will be dispelled... will vanish into the "simply nothing" that it really
is.  Pretty scary for the poor ego......  ;^)

As far as "Disappearance" in particular, I think it may be because the book
presents Course-oriented material in a very "down to earth" manner; sort of
"sit down, have a drink and we'll discuss it" -- and this makes the concepts
SO accessible (and perhaps particularly so to those for whom the Course has
not fully resonated yet), that the ego sees this as an exceptional threat.

That ol' Ego is a twicky widdle fewwah!!

Gene

What is so fear producing...

Sheila Bush

#309

Thank you, Gene...I, too, am appreciative of all the reminders from one and all.
I have to wonder, though, what is it that is so fear producing about
the various perspectives of the Course, and "Disappearance" in particular?

Sheila

Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.

From: Gene Bogart <gene@...>
Reply-To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
To: <Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...>
Subject: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] "Just A Reminder"; & Hi, I'mKaren
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:35:04 -0400

Hi Sheila,

In an earlier post, I mentioned:

"...if it's something wrong that I really did, I can understand their being
mad... but when I've simply been misunderstood, and I have clearly explained
the errors in their perception -- and they STILL remain upset with me --
yes, I know it's a wonderful opportunity for me to practice advanced
forgiveness, and let it go, and forgive what never happened...  And I do! I
really do, more and more all the time....  Still, there seems to be a part
of me that just wants to know, "why?"...

And then, you wrote:

2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you.  What others say and do is a
projection of their own reality, their own dream.  When you are
immune to the opinions and actions of others; you won't be the victim
of needless suffering.What a PERFECT reminder!  Thank you, Sheila...

...and to Karen, who said:

"You people are sweethearts..."Hey; it takes some to know some....

Hugs to all,

Gene

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

Re: A + P used to mean something

Jeanette

#308

开云体育

Martha,

?

"I am still working on accepting that."

?

Good to hear from you again.

?

Long time, no see. :-)

?

I reckon we are all working on some matters. I like what Gary mentioned about "his plate." I also like thinking about what I should put on the altar.

?

Jeanette?

?

Re: "Just A Reminder"; & Hi, I'm Karen

#307

Hi Sheila,

In an earlier post, I mentioned:

"...if it's something wrong that I really did, I can understand their being
mad... but when I've simply been misunderstood, and I have clearly explained
the errors in their perception -- and they STILL remain upset with me --
yes, I know it's a wonderful opportunity for me to practice advanced
forgiveness, and let it go, and forgive what never happened...  And I do! I
really do, more and more all the time....  Still, there seems to be a part
of me that just wants to know, "why?"...

And then, you wrote:

2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you.  What others say and do is a
projection of their own reality, their own dream.  When you are
immune to the opinions and actions of others; you won't be the victim
of needless suffering.What a PERFECT reminder!  Thank you, Sheila...

...and to Karen, who said:

"You people are sweethearts..."Hey; it takes some to know some....

Hugs to all,

Gene

Re: A + P used to mean something

mstreet

#306

开云体育

Jeanette wrote:

?

>>I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.<<

?

Hi Jeanette:

?

I guess I have to agree with you in that I too believe the world exists. As Ossie pointed out, when I look in the mirror I still see me, looking back at me. So obviously I think I exist.

?

Not that I believe that is the truth in the ultimate sense. As it says in the Introduction to the Course.

?

"Nothing real can be threatened.

Nothing unreal exists.

Herein lies the peace of God."

?

I am still working on accepting that.

?

Peace Martha :-)

Re: Re-posting: FYI: I have no control over this board

#305

Does this group have stated rules?I didn't notice.

I know it apparently has unstated ones.

And I know I always have the choice of participating or not.

~ Carrie

Hi Carrie, As far as I know the group has no rules, and as you should 
be able to see for yourself by now, people are free to say anything 
they want. I believe in freedom of speech, and when you get the book 
in the mail you'll see that Pursah says very early, "You will find we 
are very free with our speech indeed." I like to follow their 
example. Also, I don't feel superior to you and I don't have any 
problem with you saying how you feel. Sometimes the reason I don't 
respond to posts is just because I have a lot of other things on my 
plate right now. Love and peace, Gary.

Re: All this negative stuff

Jeanette

#304

Sheila,

" In my field of special education, it's called "ignoring inappropriate
behaviour."

Seems a wise decision at times.

Thanks for reminding me.

"I wanted to write to you specifically,"

Together, in good will, we can accomplish anything.

Jeanette

Re: Re-Posting: FYI: I have no control over this board

mstreet

#303

开云体育

Carrie wrote: >>Does this group have stated rules?<< Hi Carrie:?

?

The purpose of the group is stated on the home page.?

?

>>This group is for spiritual seekers familiar with ACIM and have read the book "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary R. Renard. The topics of discussion should be focused on the teachings of ACIM and the experiences of living the Course. A Course in Miracles? and ACIM? are registered trademarks of FACIM(www.facim.org), the copyright holder.<<

?

And from my understanding of the Course, purpose is everything. And I need only be concerned with my purpose. (Something that I easily forget. ) And that would be for remembering why am here. And I am not just meaning this board.

?

Peace Martha :-)

?

?

?

All this negative stuff

Sheila Bush

#302

Jeanette, quite frankly, I can't believe my perception when I read some of the recent posts that feel really negative to me.  I've decided that it's a call for love, and I can forgive and let it go completely.    In my field of special education, it's called "ignoring inappropriate behaviour."

So instead of giving it ANY more energy on the list, I wanted to write to you specifically, and copy the list.  Talk about not being in control!  Whew!!!  I bless and release you, and all on the list...and all replies that come henceforth to this list...

Sheila

Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.

From: "Jeanette" <jeanettejoy@...>
Reply-To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:40:59 -0400

And within your forgiving attitude, I'll make this my conclusion to the
matter, as well,

Jeanette

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

Re: A + P used to mean something

Jeanette

#301

开云体育

Linda,

?

"I agree, Jeanette. Thank you for joining with me."

?

It certainly is good to feel a part of, a joining with, a reunion of minds, a knowing of togetherness. Such outcomes only do good, and they offer to everyone in my world a desire they know they are a part of God, too.

?

And that's how I look at it. The Course states we know the Holy Spirit through our brother, and right mindedness sets our Vision on a course of forgiveness in order for us to be a conduit for love in the world.

?

This group seems to be doing a good job of just that.

?

Jeanette

?

Re: Re-posting. FYI: I have no control over this board

Jeanette

#300

开云体育

Gary,

?

"Hi Jeanette. No problem. I went over and checked out your post and it looked to me like you were just trying to point out that this group is thriving, which I appreciate. Everything happens the way it's supposed to. It's all a forgiveness lesson. It's just that sometimes I reserve the right to forgive and not respond! Love and peace, Gary."

?

Thanks for the kindness.

?

What I?should have done, though, was ask the?membership if offering the?discussion?site was ok. I made a mistake. I thought I was offering a postitive note to something which I felt needed a ray of positive focus, instead, perhaps, I opened a box I wish I hadn't.

?

Mostly I am glad our relationship has not been harmed by my erroneous decision.

?

And within your forgiving attitude, I'll make this my conclusion to the matter, as well,

?

Jeanette

Re: Re-Posting: FYI: I have no control over this board

#299

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "ynottakeall" 
<BBFBBN@a...> wrote:
--- In 
Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "starchild1124" 
<starchild1124@y...> wrote:

  I know, Jeanette some of us undesirables who say how they honestly 
feel and think might find it and disrupt the group.

I am on quite a few African American listservs and a couple of 
singing listservs ...  and the "drama" that I have seen on CIMs 
listservs pale in comparison, simply because on some level we are 
very aware of what we are doing.  Some one always chooses to be 
the "saner" and we in one way or another always remind each other 
to "choose once again."

However, outside of the CIM listservs, I have learned that when 
I "call" myself being "honest" and what I get is "attacked" ... and 
then in turn I feel "attacked" and want to "justify" my reaction to 
the attack ("I was only being honest" LOL).. then I know that is an 
indication that I sent my dogs out to find someone to attack me, and 
on some unconscious level I want to be both the victim and 
victimizer.  I have done this often enough to realize where to place 
the blame.  :-)

In studying the Course and observing my ego, it is not about being 
honest ... because when I am honest about where I am coming from I 
will not feel attacked when someone disagrees.

So my lesson is when I am tempted to be "honest" is "can I deal with 
the remarks that will come as a result?" And if I find that I do not 
want negative responses, or only want positive responses ... then I 
know what my real intent is... I want to be special, I want to be 
right ... I want to be God.


Peace

Ossie
  Yeah, I've read a Whoopi Goldberg quote:"You can say whatever you 
want if you're prepared to deal with what you get back".

   But then I've also read Abraham Lincoln (supposedly) said "Just 
because you can shut someone up doesn't mean you've changed how they 
feel".

   Then there was Steven Tyler, the singer with Aerosmith who said, 
when asked about a song he wrote about a young girl who kills her 
father who has been raping her-("Janey Got a Gun") and if this is a 
proper subject for a  song..."it what we DON'T talk about that causes 
the problems."

   With free communication allowed and maybe even respected, even if 
everyone doesn't agree with everyone else, there is at least hope 
that issues (ego though they may be) can be worked out. Without this 
it's hopeless.

   I've said this before and been told I'm telling people how they 
should have and run THEIR board, just because I don't agree and 
accept their rules on it.

  Does this group have stated rules?

  I didn't notice.

  I know it apparently has unstated ones.

  And I know I always have the choice of participating or not.

  ~ Carrie

Re: Re-posting. FYI: I have no control over this board

#298

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "garyrrenard" 
<garyrrenard@y...> wrote:
My apologies for mentioning the list and offering the address. Jeanette

Hi Jeanette. No problem. I went over and checked out your post and it 
looked to me like you were just trying to point out that this group 
is thriving, which I appreciate. Everything happens the way it's 
supposed to. It's all a forgiveness lesson. It's just that sometimes 
I reserve the right to forgive and not respond! Love and peace, Gary.

 And wouldn't there also be the option of forgiving AND responding?

 Seems like if one really forgives, and lets it go, there would be no 
need to "not respond" - right?

 Just for the sake of discussion (as always). This is a discussion 
group, right?

  ~ Carrie

Re: A + P used to mean something

#297

I agree, Jeanette. Thank you for joining with me.

?

Love,

Linda

Jeanette wrote:

Hey Linda,

?

"It is my belief that the whole purpose for me in this world is to learn forgiveness and part of that forgiveness is that there is no world."

?

Although our metaphysics disagrees to a degree, I am enjoying reading you once again.

?

I feel on reading your messages your heart and mind is open to a forgiving attitude which has offered you much good, and extended itself as love and understanding in your world.

?

I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.

?

I have enjoyed reading what you and others are offering here. No matter what the metaphysics, or approach it seems, all that matters is a forgiving mind, and an open heart.

?

?

Jeanette

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Do you Yahoo!?
- Now only $29.95 per month!

Re: Forgiveness Lessons

#296

Thank you for joining with me, David. I am grateful for you.

?

Love,

Linda

sonnetone wrote:

Hi linda,
I think your post was a very clear message from the sacred heart,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Langlois"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:08 PM
Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: Forgiveness Lessons

> Hi, all,
>
> I "took the bait" and I'd like to explain why. There are several
> reminders I have had lately that have caused me to remember not to
> ignore another's call for help.
>
> 1) Take the bait would seem to me to mean more about the bait to
> become upset - not about whether or not to take a certain action.
> Throw away all concepts of what to do or not to do. To answer
> someone who is angry or upset is to answer someone's call for help.
> I am not taking the bait if I am not upset but attempting to answer
> the other in love. In the past I have been rather fearful of someone
> who seems angry - not wanting to inflame further. But choosing to
> answer a call for help would mean to choose to not be upset. That
> does not mean that one need answer verbally. I must listen to hear
> what my actions should be and I cannot listen if I already have a
> certain concept about how a situation should be handled.
>
> 2) I have a friend who has been very well liked in the Course
> groups. In fact, it was really because of she and her fiance's
> presence in a group that it was so popular. Coincidentally, as both
> started sincerely revving up their studies of the Course, the got a
> good grip in there (imagine that?) and they started having serious
> trouble in their relationship. She is one of those that when she is
> upset, she can't stop talking about it and really asks for help
> anyway she knows how. I was not there, but I heard all about what
> happened when we had an esteemed ACIM teacher visit and this
> woman "monopolized" everybody's precious time by having to listen to
> her call for help rather than hear the words of the popular teacher.
> She got a bunch of cricism for it and was shunned by her former
> friends. Not permanently, but temporarily. They tried counselling,
> but the counsellor could not help getting upset. Finally, she came
> to me and asked if she could stay with me awhile while she and her
> fiance worked it out. She said that the teacher when she asked for
> advice just told her to forgive, but did not tell her how. I worked
> with her and found her to be so earnest in wanting to learn. The
> situation is much better now.
>
> 3) Once a another friend of mine who has studied and taught the
> Course for eons was in the kitchen of a friend helping her with the
> dishes. The whole time she was griping on and on about the boyfriend
> of husband of hers. He has a deep voice but all of a sudden a much,
> much deeper voice than his BOOMED out and said, There is not
> f*ing Allen" - or whoever the guy was. It was just such a shock
> to her that she totally shut up for awhile. Later, she thanked him
> so much. The shock helped her to see what she was doing.
>
> 4) I experienced for a period of time a lot of growth in the Course
> and became frightened for awhile and stepped back into the ego. Even
> though I had helped many, I found that after I had two times talked
> in an ego way for about 15 minutes about a situation I thought I had
> long forgiven, I was shunned. It was just as if everyone withdrew
> from me. It was not so much in what was said. I just felt the
> separation. What I had done was make a call for help, and what I got
> instead was the same thing as my friend experienced. Impatience that
> my ego was interfering with their chance to get great wisdom.
>
> After thinking about mine and my friend's situations, I was struck
> by how ironic it was. In a Course group we felt more judgment than I
> would feel among a regular group of people when we called for help,
> because clearly the Course says that anytime we see someone angry or
> fearful, that is a call for help. I thought that both of those
> situations could have been used as examples right in the group of
> what it means to forgive complete with discussions and everything!
> No time need have been lost in gaining wisdom.
>
> When I answered Frank, I knew I was taking a risk of making him even
> angrier and, therefore, having a man go on and on, but I stopped and
> asked if I should answer or not. I thought I might regret it, but I
> was willing to take a risk and see. In other words I did not know if
> I was listening to ego or Spirit, but this was how I could find out.
> Even as I write this, I am taking yet another risk. I do not know
> now either if I am listening to ego or Spirit. So it is either a
> call for love or a gift of love. In form it is just putting it out
> there, I guess, to see if we wish to learn together in this great
> classroom and opportunity and embrace Frank, if he wished to be
> embraced, and embrace Karen, and, hopefully, we can all see how we
> are One and joined in love.
>
> Love,
>
> Linda
>
> P.S. OK. Do I dare press the Send button? Here goes.... LOL (Above
> all, I want to not forget to laugh along with love.)
>
>
> wrote:
> > Hugh Prather says simply, "Do not
> > take the bait." I'm still learning to take that advice.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Coral Calcium for Greater Health - $23.95
http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2805&lp=calcium2.asp
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MmkSQC/NTVGAA/ySSFAA/UlWolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Do you Yahoo!?
- Now only $29.95 per month!

Re: A + P used to mean something

Jeanette

#295

开云体育

Hey Linda,

?

"It is my belief that the whole purpose for me in this world is to learn forgiveness and part of that forgiveness is that there is no world."

?

Although our metaphysics disagrees to a degree, I am enjoying reading you once again.

?

I feel on reading your messages your heart and mind is open to a forgiving attitude which has offered you much good, and extended itself as love and understanding in your world.

?

I do feel the world exists, and so does my brother. I feel it is my responses to my brother which are erroneous, and illusional, and how I see my brother is greatly misperceived.

?

I have enjoyed reading what you and others are offering here. No matter what the metaphysics, or approach it seems, all that matters is a forgiving mind, and an open heart.

?

Jeanette

Re: Re-Posting: FYI: I have no control over t...

#294

Same with me, Ossie. I am much more at peace. But I do not deny that there is still much more forgiveness to go as long as I believe in this world in any way. Where is it in the Course that says that as long as I have the slightest irritation over anything, I believe the world is real. And the slightest irritation is no different than murder. It is still belief in the world. Until I see the face of Christ in every living being, I still have a long way to go. However, I am so grateful for the forgivenesses and help which I have received. I am grateful to everyone on this discussion group. Yes, that includes you, starchild. You are my teacher same as anyone here. You are no different. You are the same.

ynottakeall wrote:

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., LindaL
wrote:
> Yes, Ossie. There is no one out there. It is not the world that is
insane, since it is not out there. The Son of God is not a body nor
a part of a world and in my thinking that, I am insane! Not this
body, Linda, made up the world. But I am not Linda. I am not a body.
I have no name. Therefore, I, as Linda - a personality - an
individual separate from other individuals, am not real. If I think
so, I, the decision maker - not Linda - will not see myself as the
Son of God. And in seeing myself as the Son of God, it would be
impossible for me to see you as a Son of God and you as a Son of God
anymore than it is possible to see God and me.

Amen, Amen and Amen Linda.

But what I also keep in mind is the statement that Ken made many
times last week at the workshops "As long as you walk into your
bathroom and see someone looking back at you, you believe you are
here" ::::sighing:::::

I am on the bottom run of the ladder ... intellecturally (sp?) I
understand some of the metaphysics of the Course ... but it is far
from my experience ... even though I do have moments of "clarity"
when I choose to see this insane perception of myself with the Right
Teacher.

Peace

Ossie

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/UlWolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Do you Yahoo!?
- Now only $29.95 per month!

Re: Re-Posting: FYI: I have no control over t...

ynottakeall

#293

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., LindaL 
<lklanglois@y...> wrote:
Yes, Ossie. There is no one out there. It is not the world that is insane, since it is not out there. The Son of God is not a body nor 
a part of a world and in my thinking that, I am insane! Not this 
body, Linda, made up the world. But I am not Linda. I am not a body. 
I have no name. Therefore, I, as Linda - a personality - an 
individual separate from other individuals, am not real. If I think 
so, I, the decision maker - not Linda - will not see myself as the 
Son of God. And in seeing myself as the Son of God, it would be 
impossible for me to see you as a Son of God and you as a Son of God 
anymore than it is possible to see God and me.

Amen, Amen and Amen Linda.  

But what I also keep in mind is the statement that Ken made many 
times last week at the workshops "As long as you walk into your 
bathroom and see someone looking back at you, you believe you are 
here"  ::::sighing::::: 

I am on the bottom run of the ladder ... intellecturally (sp?) I 
understand some of the metaphysics of the Course ... but it is far 
from my experience ... even though I do have moments of "clarity"  
when I choose to see this insane perception of myself with the Right 
Teacher.


Peace

Ossie