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开云体育

Quantum physics does explain to the intellect that non-dualism is a
fact at the sub-atomic level. The event and the observer are inter-
connected into one. The intellect will only carry us so far toward
Oneness realization. Constant practice of the teachings will
dissolve the egoic mind and the dream it projects. It's a long
journey indeed. In Chaos theory, a small disturbance in a large and
seemingly random system can eventually bring out a profound impact on
the overall system. Once we choose the direction toward God, the
awakening is imminent. It may take many lifetimes. But time is also
an illusion……

Hi all I must admit that this topic made me to think and to get no clear answer. On one hand, I understand that this world is not real and that it can no way be a product of a sane God and if there is God, then there must be a reality consistent with his nature, with the attributes Course speaks about---no levels, no changes, no differences, eternal existence and constant exchange of love from all to all. On the other hand, even since I can see myself taking the world I see less seriously, I still do not really know where I am going. I (not surprisingly) can't imagine the Real non-dualistic world, my true identity and God, since this is possible only through experience and I don't remember having one. So I would guess that my experience is still mostly dualistic, but I am less and less believing in it. So I will keep doing the Course's workbook and trying to forgive whatever seems to happening in the world and hope that my experience will eventually shift. Petr

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Gary"
<g35813@y...> wrote:

That's an interesting topic, but not an easy one to nail down. I
think the reason for that is best stated by Pursah
in "Disappearance." "You should keep in mind that each of the four
major attitudes of learning are long roads in themselves, and you
will sometimes bounce around like a ping pong ball in between them.

Gary, I think you bring up some good points. I think everyone would
have to agree, the road can be long, and I know I have been road-kill
more times than I would like to remember. I apologize for the
lengthiness of this. My finger would not obey me; even they
recognize they are not real.

Dualism:
I spent over forty years purposely fine-tuning my Dualism attitude.
I would have to say I could Bible thump with the best of them. I
knew God was there, I was here and Jesus was the path to salvation.
Of course, there was always hell to catch you if you fell off the
straight and narrow.

Semi-Dualism:
I would have to say despite my Bible thumping qualities I always had
questions. They haunted me for years and conveniently, I was able to
tuck them in the far reaches of my mind. I think more in fear of
condemnation than anything. However, I could not hide from them
forever. They begin to become real and louder as time went on. How
could God kill what He created? Was punishment (hell) an act of
love? Does perfect love really make one supplicate on a daily
bases? Of course, there was the fear factor. In addition, hell,
where did that come from? For me the door has always been nudging
open. It just took my mind longer get over the fear of God Himself.
Not to mention that is one hell of a pitchfork the devil carries
around. Shiskaboob anyone?

Non-Dualism:
Now this became my answer to all the questions I harbored for all of
those years. Oneness, now there is something to ponder. I used to
entertain how we as bodies are linked through DNA and genetics. Say
you have a child and everyone who comes to see this child always has
comments like, they have your eyes, her mouth. Not to mention the
good old DNA tests for those who lack the courage to admit that child
is theirs and how much is child support.

I knew being a creation of God had to go deeper. I knew He knew me
by my soul (His creation). A level that is conceptually more
difficult to fingerprint in my mind. How does one (spirit) divide
oneself from what is inseparable? Of course, as bodies, we see the
individualism but as spirit, the slicing dicing game does not work.
Run out and try separating the fog one morning. Now if I am truly
Gods creation, then how the hell did I end up in an orphanage (body,
earth)? Who put me on the adoption block? Knowing a loving Father
(God) would never give up His children, I was forced to face the
devil.

Perhaps I never was given up for adoption. So where was I if I was
not adopted out? Perhaps I was nowhere. As any child, I perhaps
longed for the freedom of individualism and dreamed of faraway
places. Of course not realizing what was in my own best interest.
Dreaming a dream of running away and going nowhere. A place where
time and space do not exist and dividing by zero is plausible. It
became apparent I was in a deep REM cycle and the big bang signified
the beginning of my nightmare, by my hand. I now realize reality is
not a dream, but a goal. I know the truth is not out there, but
within. The place where we all are and have never left.

"Spirit is in a state of grace forever. Your reality is only
spirit. Therefore, you are in a state of grace forever."

"God, Who created neither sin nor death, wills not that you be bound
by them."

The Fourth Obstacle: The Fear of God
"What would you see without the fear of death? What would you feel
and think if death held no attraction for you? Very simply, you
would remember your Father. The Creator of life, the Source of
everything that lives, the Father of the universe and of the universe
of universes, and of everything that lies even beyond them would you
remember. And as this memory rises in your mind, peace must still
surmount a final obstacle, after which is salvation complete, and the
Son of God entirely restored to sanity. FOR HERE YOUR WORLD DOES
END."

Pure Non-Dualism
How can we place value on what is not real? Easy! Ever dream of
what it would be like to drive around in Lamborghini Diablo? Live in
your dream house? Visit other countries and travel the world? How
about seeing someone who just begs to be lusted after? We have
placed value on things that are not real. They have a power over us
simply because we have chosen to give them that authority. When I
view someone and see ugly (such as the guy in the mirror) or see
someone who begs to be mentally undressed, I have placed value and
judgment on them. There is no hierarchy in judgment. There are no
good judgments that would be an oxymoron.

ACIM Chapter 20 Page 440
It is impossible to see your brother as sinless and yet to look upon
him as a body. The unholy instant is the time of bodies. Who sees a
brother's body has laid judgment on him, and sees him not.

If I look at the Catholicism and see a myriad of wrongs and bad
judgments. I have fallen into judgment. As Jesus was neither
judgmental nor reactionary (page 39, Arten). Just try not reacting
to the ass that just cut you off in traffic. Yet sitting back and
realizing they are you, one with OUR Father helps shed a little more
forgiveness on the situation. How about Advanced forgiveness (page
38, Arten)? Forgiving what has never been done. Ever been angry
with someone who you knew was not going to do what you asked them to
do? All of these have power over you because you have acknowledged
that power and given rise to its authority.

Nothing is so key to everything. Anything that comes from God must
be exactly like Him. God could not create anything that is not
perfect or else He would not be perfect. Since there is nothing
perfect and eternal in this world, Jesus was able to see it for what
it was…. Nothing (page 39, Arten).

Summary:
I think anyone who believes the truth of the Course and recognizes
the validity of Gary's visitors can intellectualize each one of these
and gain the understanding needed. Faith is a powerful and in
reality moves beyond the intellect. I can add 2 + 2, but must ask
where the hell did 2 come from in the first place? There used to be
this chasm between science and religion, for the most part scientist
were more on the atheist side of belief. I have come to believe that
Quantum Physics is the bridge that connects the two. Even Quantum
Physics recognizes time, space, and everything in between in not
real.

Page 40, Arten: J made a complete and uncompromising distinction
between God and everything else – everything else being totally
insignificant except for the opportunity it provided to listen to the
Holy Spirit's interpretation of it, instead of the world's. I remind
myself that thousands of lifetimes are a lot of undoing.

Thank you,
Sapient
"Always looking for something, someone else thinks they lost."

That's an interesting topic, but not an easy one to nail down. I
think the reason for that is best stated by Pursah
in "Disappearance." "You should keep in mind that each of the four
major attitudes of learning are long roads in themselves, and you
will sometimes bounce around like a ping pong ball in between them.
The Holy Spirit will correct you along the way and set you back in
the right direction." (P.37) The Holy Spirit works with all people.
They don't have to be studying the Course, but one of the main goals
of the Course is to enable us to hear the Voice for God within us
more clearly.
I personally spent a lot of years in the second attitude of
learning, semi-dualism. That's where I was when Arten and Pursah
first appeared to me. I was a pretty gentle, New Age type Christian
at the time. I knew God was love and Jesus must have practiced
unconditional love and forgiveness, but I didn't see a lot of other
people really emulating him. And of course I've bounced around like
everyone else. Today, I'd say most of the time I'm in the third
attitude of learning, non-dualism. I'm very clear that none of this
is
real, but sometimes it still takes me a while to remember, so I may
temporarily act like I think it's real. Then sometimes I
remember fast. But like everyone else, when it hits the fan it takes
me a
while. I think that's a universal experience. Then there are
times when I've had glimpses of the absolute truth and experiences of
pure non-dualism. They haven't lasted long, but they've been
beatific. Some of them have been so great that I couldn't do anything
else that day except sit there in a stupor of awe. The cool thing is
I know that someday my natural inheritance will be all that I
experience, so it encourages me to apply the Holy Spirit's major
learning tool of forgiveness as often as possible. Peace, Gary.

I would like to start a discussion thread on the "Four Major
Attitudes of Learning". What are your thoughts around each one
and where do you see yourself in the scale of learning. I have noted
each one for reference.

Dualism
Semi-Dualism
Non-Dualism
Pure Non-Dualism

Thank you,
Sapient

I thank all the new members and Gary on this discussion board. I was
on the Fearless board and saw the "heated" discussions. I choose not
to participate in the positionalities. I like to think of every
person as eternal being of light who shares part of this illusory
world with me. We may be different wavelengths on the spectrum but
we can all shine and occupy the same space together. Together we
only add to the intensity – totally and unconditionally. The
messages of the Course resonate with me that love and forgiveness
will wake me from the world of forms back to the reality of God. The
egoic mind always wants us to create more drama, conflicts, and
opinions to perpetuate the illusion. I welcome everyone who joins
this board in exercising the teachings.

One would have to wonder why the copyright issue is such an issue in
the first place. Helen definitely did not have the corner on
enlightenment. Not to mention the Course had nothing to do with
Helen in reference to authorship. Just like us delusional illusions
to either kill the messenger or idolize them. Always remember people
in attack mode are there calling for love. Buddha once said to a
student of his, "If someone offers you a gift, and you refuse the
gift, whom does it belong to"? Copyright issues belong to those
with, well….. issues.

If an author falls in the middle of the forest, does he make a sound?
No! But who cares? I wrote the book (except for all those parts where
those other guys talk) so let's have some fun. Didn't you (with an
address like youngnel) post at the other message board? I can't
believe you started a group based on the book. But since you did, I
have a special for this week only; what the hell, make it a month. If
anyone has a question about the book, or about the Course, I'll stop
by once in a while and try to baffle you with my ineptitude. So check
back every couple of days to see if I'm stalking you. I might even
quote from the book or the Course because that makes me sound smart.
Just don't let those copyright "enthusiasts" waste our time. I don't
want to talk to mean people anymore. I don't mean to judge them, they
just suck. Just kidding. You know I ALWAYS forgive sooner or later.
Lately it's just been later. And I thought being an author was going
to be fun! Well, it has been sometimes. Especially when I get to talk
to you people who like the book and are getting something important
out of it. So feel free to say hello, or ask or say what's on your
mind. I may or may not answer. Don't feel bad if I don't answer you.
After all, I could have been arrested or something. Love and peace,
Gary.

I have been a student of ACIM and recently read Gary
Renard's "Disappearance of the Universe." The book has a profound
impact on my understanding of ACIM. There are many points in the
book that I am eager to discuss with fellow members. To start out, I
find this book to be very powerful because it expands many of the
concepts of ACIM. I would love to hear other people's impressions.

Hi Gary,

Thanks for that. Dialogue is the gentlest book. It, for me was truly like speaking to the man, made me weep. Tom is so gentle so I believe.

I'm in the UK so not likely to get to your US or Hawaii meetings. Any chance you will be coming to the UK at some point?

Hope so. Thanks for the response.


Love

Claire

Has anyone here read "Dialogue on Awakening" by Tom Carpenter? It has some very relevant stuff about healing the planet.

Love

Claire

Hi Larry

Spooky. I think my e-mail is up the creek with dates but what was really wierd there was that 16th March is my birthday.

Umm

Love to all!

Claire

Thank you for that Nancy - you said what I was looking for. I thought Paul was a rabid lunatic for many years and it was not until I did a little study into other religions and the symbology of the bible as opposed to it's literal translation that I began to appreciate the degreeof misinterpretation which surrounds nearly all sacred or spiritual texts. Looking then at what Paul wrote (subject of course to translator error) one can indeed see the grasp of metaphysics clearly set out. For "sin" read ego.

I'm not saying he was the best, but, there is a lot in there which speaks of a deep connection, tramelled perhaps by the age he lived in, his own religous origins and issues.

That must have been a wonderful experience with the goat and chickens. Says it all!

Love and thanks


Claire

I think we do have to place Paul in the context of the time and consider that his "sexist" agenda would have been part and parcel of the prevailing influences at that time. I had a deep argument with Paul for many years but believe he must have been sincere (if misguided or indeed MISREPRESENTED again). It doesn't make much sense to me to consider he may have been a spy because what on earth would he have gained from that?? He had, as far as I can recall, a pretty difficult existence - no government payoff there then? Perhaps Rogier can correct this?

Love to all


Claire