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Re: More from Ken, that I found to be helpful.
acimgirl
Hi Martha.... you wrote:
This seems like a nice format. I recently attended a group thatwere trying to follow that, but from what I understand from a friend of mine, who is a regular there, so many new people were constantly joining in, that they found it hard to keep to a schedule. Me: The trick there is to not have a schedule. The Holy Spirit is the REAL teacher and if he sends new folks I find it fun and I love telling them about ACIM. The Course tells me a good teacher doesn't mind repeating the lessons 'til the student gets it. Guess who the REAL student is :) You wrote:the Course, although he has been very supportive of me, as he sees how much it means to me. In fact, as I seem to grow in the Course, it seems as if he is growing too. Not in understanding of the Course necessarily, (and probably he never needed it ;-),) but in appreciation of one another. Me: Could we be married to the same man? That's exactly my experience only we've been married 27 years. Kenneth Wapnick is a superb teacher. The Holy Spirit made no mistake there. I have been drawn mostly to Hugh Prather because the complete set of the tapes he made when he was in Santa Fe teaching at the Dispensable Church sort of fell into my lap a few years ago. Truth is true.... Blessings, Suzanne |
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What is forgiveness? W.B.Page 401.(1)
mstreet
开云体育One of my favorite sections from the Workbook. So I
thought I would share this. Again....
This is taken from Ken Wapnick's tape series on the
Lessons of the Workbook. Volume VI, tape (1.)?? 1. What Is Forgiveness?
?
(W-pII.1.)
"Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your
brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real.
It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven."
?
Ken: This is probably one of the most central ways in which the Course
departs from every other spiritual system, many of which would emphasize our
forgiveness of each other. But in the Course, Jesus is making it clear, that we
forgive our brothers for what they have not done.
?
In other words, since there is no world, and every one is simply a figure
in the dream there is no one who could truly do anything.
?
And the ultimate meaning of this, is that we forgive
ourselves for what we have not done. We just believe that we have separated from
God and destroyed His kingdom. In truth, nothing happened.
?
So as I have said many many times, that there is no way that you could
understand or practice this Course, without first understanding its underlining
metaphysics. And so to understand the meaning of forgiveness, means - that you
must understand that there is literally nothing to forgive.
?
On the practical level of our daily experience, what forgiveness means -
is, that what has not occurred, is that you have not taken away the peace of
God. So - forgetting for the moment, that this is an illusion and we are not
even here, even on the level of my experience of being here, and being involved
with you, my difficulties all stem from the thought, that I am accusing you of
having done something, or failed to do something, which took my peace away. So I
forgive you for what you have not done. Because the only one who could take the
peace of God away from me, was myself.?
?
"What is sin, except a false idea about God's
Son?"
?
Ken: Sin is not a fact. It is simply a mistaken
thought. Basically it comes from the mistake in believing what the ego told us
is the truth, and the Holy Spirit has lied. And the false idea about God's Son,
is that God's Son is not this glorious Self of Christ, created by God, but that
self rather is a separated being, that we give a name too.
?
"Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and
therefore lets it go."
?
Ken: As we will see in just a minute, this is the key
theme of what forgiveness is. That it looks on the ego, and realizes that there
is nothing to forgive. So that you cannot forgive without first looking at what
is false. You don't have to deal with what is true. You look at what is false.
You look at it. All of your false perceptions. All of your grievances. All of
your investments in specialness. And realize that they are not what you thought.
That you do not know your own best interests.
?
What you thought would make you happy, which would
always come at someone else's expense, was simply not true. But you won't know
it is not true, until you first look at it. And the purpose of a relationship
with Jesus, as I have repeatedly said - is to be in his loving presence - which
allows you to share his vision and use his eyes, so that you could realize
again, in the end that there is nothing to forgive.
?
"What then is free to take its place is now the
Will of God."
?
Ken: So what forgiveness does - is undo the false and what remains, is the
truth that is always present in our minds.
?
Now, paragraph 2 and 3, talk about what the opposite is. What an
unforgiving thought does. And basically what he is talking about here, is, the
unforgiving thoughts I hold towards you. And how this is a defense against the
ultimate unforgiving thought that I hold towards myself for having destroyed
Heaven.
?
(to be continued) ..........
? |
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Re: Suzanne:
Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è? hope you didn't tell him, that I am transcribing some of è his commentaries on the workbook, and freely passing è them on. :-)) Actually, I am trying to keep it down to è the one's that are most meaningful to me, but the è problem is, most of them are. Didn't notice .. just thought you were sharing.? And you know that Ken is not concerned with form .. just content.?? :-) Today was a rough day ... took all week but I finally broke down ... we discussed lesson 23 about looking at attack thoughts ... and I just filled in the blanks ... and then it hit me hard all the objects of hatred I have and the next question am I willing to let them go. Ken mentioned something about seeing a "contrast" that we really won't give things up until we see the cost.? I got a glimpse of the cost today ... price is much too high. Peace Ossie |
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Re: Suzanne:
mstreet
开云体育>>BTW Marttha ... Ken
says Hello? :-)<<
Thanks Ossie: ?
I hope you didn't tell him,
that I am transcribing some of his commentaries on the workbook, and freely
passing them on. :-)) Actually, I am trying to keep it down to the one's that
are most meaningful to me, but the problem is, most of them are.
?
I have had an viral
infection of the inner ear, which results in extreme dizziness, nausea etc. My
son, who is a medical doctor prescribed pills for it about a month ago, but as
soon as I started feeling better, I went off them. But then the symptoms came
back with a whammy, about three days ago. I could hardly sit up. Now I have been
told to stay on the pills for at least a couple of months.
?
Well... at least it
promoted a nice joining with my son, as he had to look into my eyes, if only to
confirm his prognosis. ;-)
?
Hope you enjoy the rest of
the workshop with Ken. And it is so good to hear what you are learning. Hope to
be hearing more from you.
?
Peace Martha
:-) |
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Re: More from Ken, that I found to be helpful.
mstreet
开云体育Hi again Suzanne:
?
Starting with your last sentence, I did notice that your last post had an
attachment, and seemed to go to BB, although I don't know what that is. :-) But
it seems fine now. It could be it had something to do with Yahoo. You
wrote:
? >>I suppose I am the teacher but so are the others.? We read
and discuss the Course paragraph by paragraph. We eventually get through it and
start over.? I don't do the Workbook in groups though because it is
impossible to have everyone on the same lesson at the same time. That is done on
our own but we are free to
talk about it if we want in the group.<< ?
This seems like a nice format. I recently attended a group that were
trying to follow that, but from what I understand from a friend of mine, who is
a regular there, so many new people were constantly joining in, that they found
it hard to keep to a schedule.?
?
I tend to go into intense periods of studying on my own, and then go
into periods of when I need to digest it, although I am still trying to apply
what I have learned. But, ever since starting I have never doubted that this was
to be my pathway home.?
?
It is nice to be able to have someone to share with though. Even if we
are not always on the same page.
?
My husband of over 40 years is not the slightest bit interested in the
Course, although he has been very supportive of me, as he sees how much it means
to me. In fact, as I seem to grow in the Course, it seems as if he is growing
too. Not in understanding of the Course necessarily, (and probably he never
needed it ;-),) but in appreciation of one another.
?
That is something that I am really getting from the Course lately, and
also from Ken's teachings, is, that basically none of us is different. Even
though we all share in having a wrong mind, yet we also share in the same right
mind of the Holy Spirit. And we also share in the same need to waken from the
dream of separate interests.
?
I don't want to sound like a preacher here, because actually I realize
that the only one who needs to remember that, is myself.:-)
?
Peace Martha :-)
?
?
?
?
?
? |
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Re: Inspiration
Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è That is why I especially like Ken Wapnick. He is è always urging students to act as normal people do. è Yes, Martha, I have lost count of how many times he has said that this week. I love the way he starts out talking about how insane and psychotic we are and then he says .. "but continue to act like normal people" LOL There was one person who said brought up a situation where she said If my husband leaves me, I am to look at my reaction to it with Jesus then Ken said, "yes, you go through the anger, etc." She said "yes, I know, but while I am experiencing that, I do it with Jesus ... ask to see it differently because this is part of the dream" Then here was the clincher ... Ken said "yes, but remember that the reason why you were hurt is because on some level you believed it the reasons why he left you ... that something was wrong with you ... otherwise it would not bother you that he left" ... And the look on her face ... realizing how insidious this ego thought system is. It is a full proof thought system ... no way to make it better, other than to choose once again. ::::sighing ::::: |
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Re: Suzanne:
Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è Personally, I just did most of my studying alone. è Although, I think I bought every tape and book that was è ever put out about the Course. Right now, as you can è probably tell I am studying along with Ken's tapes. He è is a fast talker, even though he tends to be on the quiet è side,? and I find that in order to get what he is saying, I è often need to go over it several times. Or, write it down. BTW Marttha ... Ken says Hello? :-) ========Original Message======== Subj: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Suzanne: Date: 7/4/2003 9:16:35 PM Central Daylight Time From: mastreet@... Reply-to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... Sent from the Internet (Details) Hi Suzanne: ? I don't know what happened to that last message, because it had an attachment with it. I hope it is not something that I was doing wrong. But I am interested in your groups. Are you the leader? And how long have you been teaching? Personally, I just did most of my studying alone. Although, I think I bought every tape and book that was ever put out about the Course. Right now, as you can probably tell I am studying along with Ken's tapes. He is a fast talker, even though he tends to be on the quiet side,? and I find that in order to get what he is saying, I often need to go over it several times. Or, write it down. ~ Martha :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the . |
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Re: Inspiration (and thank you, Suzanne)
Suzanne wrote: >In addition to our ACIM groups we have a bookstudy
group and guess what book we are starting next week :) Thank You AND Arten and Pursah! Suzanne Bruder Germantown, TN Thank you, Suzanne, and welcome! I'm really happy you've found the book to be helpful, and on behalf of myself, as well as Arten and Pursah, I appreciate your kind words. I'm also honored that you and your bookstudy group would use "The Disappearance of the Universe" at your meetings. I hope you'll let us know how it goes. Love and peace, Gary. |
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Re: More from Ken, that I found to be helpful.
acimgirl
Hi Martha.... There were several of us interested in ACIM in B'ham so
we began meeting. At the end of 1984 my husband's job moved us to the Memphis area and that is where we are to this day. I hooked up with some folks at the local Unity Church and I have been meeting with groups all these years. I suppose I am the teacher but so are the others. We read and discuss the Course paragraph by paragraph. We eventually get through it and start over. I don't do the Workbook in groups though because it is impossible to have everyone on the same lesson at the same time. That is done on our own but we are free to talk about it if we want in the group. For some reason all the stuff written here is showing up on my home e-mail. It's ok but is that the way this is supposed to work? That is why I wasn't sure my last post was going to you personally or to the BB. Blessings, Suzanne |
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More from Ken, that I found to be helpful.
mstreet
开云体育Lesson 246, "To love my Father, is to love His
Son"
This is from Ken Wapnick's Workbook lesson commentaries
Volume VI. Tape (2)
?
(W-246.1.&2)
"Let me not think that I can find the way to God,
if I have hatred in my heart.?
Let me not try to hurt God's Son, and think that I can
know his Father or my Self."
?
Ken: To truly mean that I love God, and that I want to return to Him, how
could I then harbor grievances against someone else? Which means, that when I
harbor grievances against someone else, I am really saying that I don't love
God. And that is what you clearly have to see.
?
If you are clear, that the only way that you could love God, is to see no
separation in His Son. Then that means when you see separation in the Son, in
terms of indulging your specialness at someone else's expense, or justifying
your anger, it automatically means I don't want to remember God. And that is
what honesty means. You must look at that thought and then understand "of
course I don't want to remember God." If I remember God I cease to exist.
Therefore the only I could continue to exist is to keep God away. And the way I
keep God away is to attack His Son. Ergo... I am always finding fault with
people.
?
And in that prayer of that lesson, in the beginning, we read:
?
"I will accept the way You choose for me to come
to You, my Father."
?
Ken: This goes back to that lovely prayer that ends lesson 189, and this
theme comes up over and over again: "Father, I do not know the way to you
but you have called and I will follow."
?
And so we don't go our way back to God. We choose His way. And what is His
way? His way is to forgive His Son. And His Son is everyone that I look upon or
think about past, present, or in the future. My way is to do all kinds of insane
things. I pray more. My life is full of devotions. I suffer. I sacrifice. I read
holy books. That is our way. It is not God's way. God's way is that we look upon
God's Son as one, without attack. (the end)
?
Peace Martha |
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FYI: I have no control over this board
FYI: As far as I know, no one is moderated on this list. However, it
is not my group. I didn't start it and I don't have any control over it. I cannot edit, delete or affect what is on the board. It was started by a guy named Nelson, but he is a different Nels than someone of a similar name who has posted there recently. The founders e-mail address is YoungNel97@... As Patrick said in his announcement that he sent out to readers of my book: This group was started independently by a reader,I personally do not believe in controlling what anyone else has to say and have never done so, not even on my old board where I would have had the power to do so. I don't know what happened to a couple of the posts here, but I imagine it's possible that Yahoo had a technical screw up, which has happened before. If you'd like to ask the founder any questions, please feel free. Love and peace, Gary. |
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Suzanne:
mstreet
开云体育Hi Suzanne:
?
I don't know what happened to that last message, because it had an
attachment with it. I hope it is not something that I was doing wrong. But I am
interested in your groups. Are you the leader? And how long have you been
teaching?
?
Personally, I just did most of my studying alone. Although, I think I
bought every tape and book that was ever put out about the Course. Right now, as
you can probably tell I am studying along with Ken's tapes. He is a fast talker,
even though he tends to be on the quiet side,? and I find that in order to
get what he is saying, I often need to go over it several times. Or, write it
down.
?
~ Martha :-) |
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Re: Inspiration
acimgirl
Hi Martha... I heard that about Barbara too.? It was a shock.?
To tell you the truth I don't have much exposure to Course people who are
not in my groups. I have 2 groups and they stay very small.? I like
it that way and I am very clear that we are all teachers as well as students.
If people come who are into judging the sick they don't stay long.?
Also if they are into "arranging form" they don't stay long either.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I see the return on this is the yahoo BB so I'll stop there.? I
was going to write more but if this is going to the BB I'll keep it brief.
mstreet wrote: ??>>Barbara Varley came to my Unity church in Birmingham with their harps in tow and their wonderful evening of music and musings on the Course.<<?When I heard that Barbara Varley died at such a young age from cancer it really shocked me. She was so beautiful and vibrant looking. But the more I think of it, how can any of us know, when another persons classroom here is over.?I know there is a part of me, that hates to even admitting to even being sick, especially amongst Course people, as it seems to me, they are so quick to judge. In this way non Course people are usually much kinder. At least that is my perception.?That is why I especially like Ken Wapnick. He is always urging students to act as normal people do.?~ Martha?????~ Martha |
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Something I found helpful from one of Ken's tapes on the workbook.
mstreet
开云体育This is from Ken Wapnick's Workbook lesson commentaries Volume VI. Tape (2)
It is actually the prayer in the lesson 243, and it? talks about our
oneness with each other.
(W-243.2.) "Father, today I leave creation free to be itself." Ken: In other words I accept the oneness in all of us. I accept the fact that we all share the same interest and need and purpose. "I honor all its parts, in which I am included. Ken: I honor all the parts of the Sonship. I don't attack anyone. I don't elevate any one, into a special love idol. I see everyone as being an equal part of the same unity. Including myself. "We are one because each part contains Your memory," Ken: We all share the same right mind. We all share the same Holy Spirit. "and truth must shine in all of us as one." Ken: If it doesn't shine in all of us, it's not the truth. So everything that people have taught is the truth through out history, and have killed in the name of that truth, is a lie, because it doesn't include everyone. Whether you are talking about a religious system, an economic system, or a political system, a social system, it always excludes. My way is right. My teacher is right. My spiritual path is right. And yours is wrong. That automatically means, it is not the truth. It maybe my path and it works for me, but it's no more true than anyone else's. So don't make that mistake with the Course either. Don't use the Course as a weapon against other people...... ~ Martha :-)
? |
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Re: Inspiration
mstreet
开云体育?
>>Barbara Varley came to my Unity church in Birmingham with their
harps in tow and their wonderful evening of music and musings on the
Course.<<
?
When I heard that Barbara Varley died at such a young age from cancer
it really shocked me. She was so beautiful and vibrant looking. But the more I
think of it, how can any of us know, when another persons classroom here is
over.?
?
I know there is a part of me, that hates to even admitting to even
being sick, especially amongst Course people, as it seems to me, they are so
quick to judge. In this way non Course people are usually much kinder. At least
that is my perception.
?
That is why I especially like Ken Wapnick. He is always urging students
to act as normal people do.?
?
~ Martha??
?
?
?
?
?
~ Martha?? |
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Re: Inspiration
mstreet
开云体育Suzanne wrote:
>>I didn't know what an impact ACIM was going to make on my life
or I would remember the exact time and date that Robert and Barbara Varley came
to my Unity church in Birmingham with their harps in tow and their wonderful
evening of music and musings on the Course.? It was probably 1983.<< ?
Hi again Suzanne:
?
This bring a smile to my me, because I think they came to the Unity
in? Vancouver,B.C. in 1981, when I was already doing the lessons. Actually
I had almost completely forgotten about them, but they too spurred me on to
completing the lessons. I almost felt that once I was finished with the lessons
I would be one step away from being being just like Jesus. (LOL)
?
I actually did the lessons and Course on my own, but they were one of
the first people I heard of not only of who knew of the Course, but had done the
Workbook and were now singing and giving talks about it.
?
Thanks for the memories. Martha :-) |
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Re: Inspiration
acimgirl
---
Hi Martha... I'm not sure if I'm doing this right. Sorry about the double post earlier. I thought I was editing one post but ended up sending 2. At first I thought I might be shunned but then I remembered to forgive myself :) Anyway it sounds like we have similar stories. I didn't know what an impact ACIM was going to make on my life or I would remember the exact time and date that Robert and Barbara Varley came to my Unity church in Birmingham with their harps in tow and their wonderful evening of music and musings on the Course. It was probably 1983. Yikes! I decided I wanted what they had. I'm still working on it! Gary's book is really helping me focus. Blessings, Suzanne |
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Re: Inspiration
mstreet
开云体育Hi Suzanne:
>>I read about this book in Jon Mundy's newsletter and I just knew I had to read it.? I generally shy away from books about the Course because I felt, "I have the Course.... what else do I need?"?? I am much more focused now and determined to get this thing right after the loving direction of Arten and Pursah.< ?
Hi Suzanne:
?
I agree with you, Gary's book seemed to be like a confirmation of what
I had believed about the Course. Like you I started the Course in 1980, and
really did not have a clue as to what it was all about. But just had a
persistent inner voice, telling me that these books held all the answers that I
was seeking, before actually purchasing the books.
?
And then my disappointment because I really did not understand what
they were saying. However I did agree (to myself) to do the workbook faithfully
in 1981, and gradually it started making sense to me. And then I was eager to
understand what the actual Text said also. Which, it seems to me has been a long
process, and which made me appreciate even more Gary's book.
?
I also appreciate Gary for actaully trying to live by what he has
learned, and is teaching.
?
In appreciation. Martha? |
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Inspiration
acimgirl
Dear Gary,
Thank you for writing this book! I have been studying/teaching ACIM since the early 80's. I wonder if your teachers aren't working with us as well because I have been blown away by the examples they use and the way they say things. We speak the same "language" and have used so many of the same examples that it is uncanny. I have generally shied away from books about the Course because I felt, "I have the Course.... what else do I need?" But I saw this mentioned in Jon Mundy's newsletter and I felt compelled to read it. I am much more focused now and determined to get this thing right after the loving direction of Arten and Pursah. In addition to our ACIM groups we have a bookstudy group and guess what book we are starting next week :) Thank You AND Arten and Pursah! Suzanne Bruder Germantown, TN |
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