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Re: A "Fringe Benefit" of Forgiveness

 

Yes Billy, That was very helpful. For me, it's especially when you
say you learn by first, asking for correction, and second, by always
being aware of how you are perceiving your brothers. Thanks and
peace, Gary.
Re: A "Fringe Benefit" of Forgiveness

 

Thanks, Jim. Talk about a "holy encounter!" That's a great story
about a wonderful experience. Thanks for sharing it with us. Peace,
Gary.
Re: A "Fringe Benefit" of Forgiveness

[email protected]
 

In a message dated 5/16/03 11:09:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, g35813@... writes:

For my own curiousity, I'd be interested in hearing how anyone
has felt they were more truly guided and could more clearly hear the
Voice of the Holy Spirit either by forgiveness or through the
practice of prayer and meditation


Perhaps by the peace I feel in the present moment, is indication
that somewhere within, the mind is forgiving.? Projecting a
split mind, there is always the temptation to indulge the ego's
voice, as we learn to utilize that choice by looking at its
purpose.? My experience of the Course is that it is a serious
study.? We have to be a part of the process, by going into the
heart of its message that the Son of God is guiltless, and look
at the temptation that is an active choice to prove it wrong.?
Forgiveness is the simplest thing in the world to do, but there
is a tremendous resistance to the actual process.? We all have
a strong? investment in being right.? We are so sure of
our judgments, and so it takes what seems like "time,"
to relinquish control.? In my experience, this is why it is
difficult to truly follow guidance by the Holy Spirit.? I learn by
first, asking for correction, and second, by always being
aware of how I am perceiving my brothers.? I hope this is
helpful.

Billy
Re: A "Fringe Benefit" of Forgiveness

Jim Dunn
 

开云体育

??? I was speeding down the San Diego Freeway somewhere in Orange County, California, and meditating on the phrase from the Bible, "Behold the Son of God, with whom He is well pleased." I was doing daily ACIM Workbook lessons, as is my habit.
??? For no apparent reason I spoke that quotation aloud. Suddenly I heard a persistent honking from a car alongside of me, looked at who might be honking at me and saw my middle son, a student of San Diego State University. Since he was nearly 90 miles form his college I was surprised to see him, and even more surprised that he had appeared just as I had quoted that verse from the Bible. I was awestruck by the amount of love that engulfed me as I waived, and watched him zoom off to his destination.? A very clear voice inside my head said, "When you greet everyone the way you greeted your son, you will know what heaven is."
?
?
Jim Dunn

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary [mailto:g35813@...]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 7:24 PM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] A "Fringe Benefit" of Forgiveness

???? On P.224 of "Disappearance" Arten said to me, "Even though the
Holy Spirit doesn't do anything in the world, His interpretation of
form can help you see more clearly what you should do here. That's
just a fringe benefit of choosing Him as your Teacher, not the main
reason, which is salvation."
???? Although Arten was talking about how much more clearly you can
receive guidance when your mind is at peace from looking at the world
with true perception, we also talked later about the subject of
receiving guidance in the chapter, "True Prayer and Abundance."
???? For my own curiousity, I'd be interested in hearing how anyone
has felt they were more truly guided and could more clearly hear the
Voice of the Holy Spirit either by forgiveness or through the
practice of prayer and meditation. Love and peace, Gary.



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A "Fringe Benefit" of Forgiveness

 

On P.224 of "Disappearance" Arten said to me, "Even though the
Holy Spirit doesn't do anything in the world, His interpretation of
form can help you see more clearly what you should do here. That's
just a fringe benefit of choosing Him as your Teacher, not the main
reason, which is salvation."
Although Arten was talking about how much more clearly you can
receive guidance when your mind is at peace from looking at the world
with true perception, we also talked later about the subject of
receiving guidance in the chapter, "True Prayer and Abundance."
For my own curiousity, I'd be interested in hearing how anyone
has felt they were more truly guided and could more clearly hear the
Voice of the Holy Spirit either by forgiveness or through the
practice of prayer and meditation. Love and peace, Gary.
Re: ..."Attitudes.Q"

 

I agree Sheila. For most people, the best environment to do the course is the one they are presently in. Not that it makes it easy, but it works as an reminder that it is "a required course". The relationships with people at home or at work make the mess in our mind very visible and often quite painful and therefore hard to forget or deny.

I have been keeping in touch with the Course for 3 years, but I didn't seem to have enough time to give it appropriate amount of time to be considered a serious course student. But when our doughter was born and I had to face the negative emotions which came as my reaction to watching a crying baby, I figured out that the time came to become more serious about my mind trainig in order to deal with it in a way I would possibly call successful. I can't imagine a better classroom for me since there were no escape nor a way how to fix the situation on the level of the illusion.

So I still have a long way ahead, but at least I got myself moving again :o)

Petr
Re: ..."Attitudes."

Sheila Bush
 

Beautifully stated, Jim!

You wrote:
" Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning
is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time
I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or
respond from love, and forgive."

My daily struggle, if and when these days, is accepting my husband and
his own inner struggles, along with the resulting and seemingly offensive
and childish behaviors. I am especially concerned about our teenage
children who perceive him negatively for the most part.

The book and the Course have assisted me in learning what a powerful
gift this man has been to me and our family. It seems that I do choose
each day whether to respond in love or fear, and thanks be to the Holy
Spirit it's usually love, and forgiveness certainly follows. But it means that
I am also learning to forgive myself and accept my own behaviors,
attitudes, and perceptions.


This is a quote I will tape onto my computer monitor, as it simply and
beautifully nips it in the bud for me! When I struggle with my own perception
of anyone at all as appearing less than the child of God s/he is intended to be,
I will read:

"Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning
is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time
I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or
respond from love, and forgive."

Jim, this is my gift this day! Thank you!!!


Sheila

Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.





From: "Jim Dunn" <jldunn8@...>
Reply-To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
To: <Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...>
Subject: RE: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Gary to Petr, youngnel, and Jim on "Attitudes."
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:50:08 -0700

Gary,

In the groups I have led and the on line chats, I try to emphasize that
we will always find what we seek. If we want peace, we will laugh gently
at the "seeming" discord within the course community. Remember, the
need to be right will surface as long as we still think it holds some
value. ACIM has convinced me that no one else has to "do" the course..
It was created by J entirely for me. If I can understand that
"Salvation of the world depends on me," then I will not care if Ken and
Robert agree of disagree, since I invented both of them in my dreamscape
anyway. Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning
is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time
I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or
respond from love, and forgive.

Bless you Gary for this wonderful, uncompromising book.



Jim Dunn

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary [mailto:g35813@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Gary to Petr, youngnel, and Jim
on "Attitudes."


I think all three of you, within your fine observations about
duality, non-duality, etc. managed to come up with the Answer. That's
a very good sign. Petr very wisely put the focus back on the Workbook
and forgiveness, as did youngnel ("constant practice of the
teaching") and you Jim, in the way you look at things. As my
contribution, I'd like to put here a slightly edited e-mail I sent to
a fellow Course student who has been on a spiritual path for many,
many years and has studied the Course without it producing very much
happiness in his life so far. I think it speaks to a very important
issue and can be of value to all of us:

Dear ----, You mention how confusing it is to have highly intelligent
people like Wapnick and Perry disagreeing with each other. Perhaps we
should take more note of the things they don't disagree about. I
remind you of the following two statements from ACIM:

"This is not a course in philosophical speculation, nor is it
concerned with precise terminology. It is concerned only with
Atonement, or the correction of perception. The means of the
Atonement is forgiveness." (CL77)

"Forgiveness is the central theme that runs throughout salvation,
holding all its parts in meaningful relationships, the course it runs
directed and its outcome sure." (W324)

My teachers stressed that without forgiveness, metaphysics are
useless, yet time and time again I see people engage in philosophical
speculation when talking about the Course; at the same time, I see
very little discussion about forgiveness or specific examples of
people doing it. That's why I think there are a lot of unhappy people
doing the course. I don't know you specifically, so I'm only speaking
in general terms here. And I include myself when I say that my
teachers were very clear that if I wanted to be happy, I'd use the
Course for what it was meant for.
I see all around me, from my study group, to friends, to people
throughout the Course community, very few people using the Course
purposefully and habitually to practice forgiveness. I think I could
count on two hands the people I've seen really practicing the Course!
(But then I've only been looking for 10 years.)
So if you want to be truly unique, you have a marvelous
opportunity. If you ever read my book again, I would try to notice
most the parts that deal with forgiveness of our relationships and
the situations that confront us. I'd say no more than 4 out of the 17
chapters in my book were dominated by metaphysics, but the theme of
forgiveness can be found in all 17. I'm not suggesting that you
didn't see those things the first time; I'm suggesting they must be
utilized with great effort until they become almost automatic. For as
the Course says, "Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary."
(T3) In other words, unintentional. It takes a long time for that to
become such a deep part of you, but it is possible. I wish you God's
speed. Peace, Gary.




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Re: Gary to Petr, youngnel, and Jim on "Attitudes."

Jim Dunn
 

开云体育

Gary,
?
In the groups I have led and the on line chats, I try to emphasize that we will always find what we seek. If we want peace, we will laugh gently at the "seeming" discord within the course community.? Remember, the need to be right will surface as long as we still think it holds some value. ACIM has convinced me that no one else has to "do" the course.. It was created by J entirely for me.? If I can understand that "Salvation of the world depends on me," then I will not care if Ken and Robert agree of disagree, since I invented both of them in my dreamscape anyway. Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or respond from love, and forgive.
?
Bless you Gary for this wonderful, uncompromising book.
?
?
?
Jim Dunn

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary [mailto:g35813@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 11:51 AM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Gary to Petr, youngnel, and Jim on "Attitudes."

I think all three of you, within your fine observations about
duality, non-duality, etc. managed to come up with the Answer. That's
a very good sign. Petr very wisely put the focus back on the Workbook
and forgiveness, as did youngnel ("constant practice of the
teaching") and you Jim, in the way you look at things. As my
contribution, I'd like to put here a slightly edited e-mail I sent to
a fellow Course student who has been on a spiritual path for many,
many years and has studied the Course without it producing very much
happiness in his life so far. I think it speaks to a very important
issue and can be of value to all of us:

Dear ----, You mention how confusing it is to have highly intelligent
people like Wapnick and Perry disagreeing with each other. Perhaps we
should take more note of the things they don't disagree about. I
remind you of the following two statements from ACIM:

"This is not a course in philosophical speculation, nor is it
concerned with precise terminology. It is concerned only with
Atonement, or the correction of perception. The means of the
Atonement is forgiveness." (CL77)

"Forgiveness is the central theme that runs throughout salvation,
holding all its parts in meaningful relationships, the course it runs
directed and its outcome sure." (W324)

My teachers stressed that without forgiveness, metaphysics are
useless, yet time and time again I see people engage in philosophical
speculation when talking about the Course; at the same time, I see
very little discussion about forgiveness or specific examples of
people doing it. That's why I think there are a lot of unhappy people
doing the course. I don't know you specifically, so I'm only speaking
in general terms here. And I include myself when I say that my
teachers were very clear that if I wanted to be happy, I'd use the
Course for what it was meant for.
?? I see all around me, from my study group, to friends, to people
throughout the Course community, very few people using the Course
purposefully and habitually to practice forgiveness. I think I could
count on two hands the people I've seen really practicing the Course!
(But then I've only been looking for 10 years.)
???? So if you want to be truly unique, you have a marvelous
opportunity. If you ever read my book again, I would try to notice
most the parts that deal with forgiveness of our relationships and
the situations that confront us. I'd say no more than 4 out of the 17
chapters in my book were dominated by metaphysics, but the theme of
forgiveness can be found in all 17. I'm not suggesting that you
didn't see those things the first time; I'm suggesting they must be
utilized with great effort until they become almost automatic. For as
the Course says, "Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary."
(T3) In other words, unintentional. It takes a long time for that to
become such a deep part of you, but it is possible. I wish you God's
speed. Peace, Gary.




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Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...



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So glad to find this list!!!

Sheila Bush
 

Hello, Everyone!

Never mind the week long search for you, but "I'm just so proud to be here!" as Minnie Pearl might have said! =)

I've read through the thread of messages thus far, and want to thank youngnel97 for starting this list! It will be a pleasure to have Spirit a part of our lives again through this list; ie, NOT to have factioned discussions and egos abounding! LOL... Whew! It's hard work seeing ego everywhere and then realizing that you must have an issue or two hanging out everywhere!!! =)

All for now, but want to get into discussions soon on the topic of forgiveness...that daily agenda of mine these days!

Love and Blessings to all...


Sheila

Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: Attitudes of Learning

sapientobserve
 

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Petr Cisar"
<pc@g...> wrote:
Hi all I must admit that this topic made me to think and to get no
clear answer.



Petr,
I understand the thoughts and questions. We all are at times in the
same mindset at any given moment. The fact that you see this world
as not real and that God has not gone mad and condemned us to hell is
a sign you have moved way beyond dualism. I have my times of
struggle and understanding yet there are also those times of
enlightenment and vision. It is a process, which for me, is not
always an easy one. Remember there are many lifetimes of undoing. I
have noted several quotes from the Course that really help me in
times when hopelessness, confusion, and frustration creep in. I
might add I have them more times, than I would like. I also know
the key is forgiveness and remembering who we really are. The
introduction to chapter 24 was a revelation. I spent many nights
reading it repeatedly.

Chapter 21, VIII 5
Do I desire a world I rule instead of one the rules me?
Do I desire a world where I am powerful instead of helpless?
Do I desire a world in which I have no enemies and cannot sin?
And do I want to see what I denied BECAUSE it is the truth?
Forget not that the choice of sin or truth, helplessness or power, is
the choice of whether to attack or heal.

Chapter 24, Introduction
Forget not that the motivation of this course is the attainment and
the keeping of the state of peace. Given this state the mind is
quiet, and the condition in which God is remembered is attained. It
is not necessary to tell Him what to do. He will not fail. Where He
can enter, there He is already. And can it be He cannot enter where
He wills to be? Peace will be yours because it is His WILL. Can you
believe a shadow can hold back the Will that holds the universe
secure? God does not wait upon illusions to let Him be Himself. No
more His Son. They are. And what illusions that idly seems to drift
between Them has the power to defeat what is Their Will?

To learn this course requires willingness to question every value
that you hold. Not one can be kept hidden and obscure but it will
jeopardize your learning. No belief is neutral. Every one has the
power to dictate each decision you make. For a decision is a
conclusion based on everything that you believe. It is the outcome
of belief, and follows it as surely as does suffering follow guilt
and freedom sinlessness. There is no substitute for peace. What God
creates has no alternative. The truth arises from what He knows.
And your decisions come from your beliefs as certainly as all
creation rose in His mind because of what He knows.

Lesson 126
"All that I give is given to myself.
The Help I need to learn that this is true
Is with me now. And I will trust in Him."
Gary to Petr, youngnel, and Jim on "Attitudes."

 

I think all three of you, within your fine observations about
duality, non-duality, etc. managed to come up with the Answer. That's
a very good sign. Petr very wisely put the focus back on the Workbook
and forgiveness, as did youngnel ("constant practice of the
teaching") and you Jim, in the way you look at things. As my
contribution, I'd like to put here a slightly edited e-mail I sent to
a fellow Course student who has been on a spiritual path for many,
many years and has studied the Course without it producing very much
happiness in his life so far. I think it speaks to a very important
issue and can be of value to all of us:

Dear ----, You mention how confusing it is to have highly intelligent
people like Wapnick and Perry disagreeing with each other. Perhaps we
should take more note of the things they don't disagree about. I
remind you of the following two statements from ACIM:

"This is not a course in philosophical speculation, nor is it
concerned with precise terminology. It is concerned only with
Atonement, or the correction of perception. The means of the
Atonement is forgiveness." (CL77)

"Forgiveness is the central theme that runs throughout salvation,
holding all its parts in meaningful relationships, the course it runs
directed and its outcome sure." (W324)

My teachers stressed that without forgiveness, metaphysics are
useless, yet time and time again I see people engage in philosophical
speculation when talking about the Course; at the same time, I see
very little discussion about forgiveness or specific examples of
people doing it. That's why I think there are a lot of unhappy people
doing the course. I don't know you specifically, so I'm only speaking
in general terms here. And I include myself when I say that my
teachers were very clear that if I wanted to be happy, I'd use the
Course for what it was meant for.
I see all around me, from my study group, to friends, to people
throughout the Course community, very few people using the Course
purposefully and habitually to practice forgiveness. I think I could
count on two hands the people I've seen really practicing the Course!
(But then I've only been looking for 10 years.)
So if you want to be truly unique, you have a marvelous
opportunity. If you ever read my book again, I would try to notice
most the parts that deal with forgiveness of our relationships and
the situations that confront us. I'd say no more than 4 out of the 17
chapters in my book were dominated by metaphysics, but the theme of
forgiveness can be found in all 17. I'm not suggesting that you
didn't see those things the first time; I'm suggesting they must be
utilized with great effort until they become almost automatic. For as
the Course says, "Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary."
(T3) In other words, unintentional. It takes a long time for that to
become such a deep part of you, but it is possible. I wish you God's
speed. Peace, Gary.
Gary, Re: Sapient, Attitudes of Learning

 

Sapient, thanks for your essay on the attitudes of learning. I see no
need to respond to it in detail because I think it was comprehensive
and made many valid and interesting points. I've asked most of the
same questions you have along the way, and as with you, the Holy
Spirit has provided the answers and continues to. Peace, Gary.
Re: Attitudes of Learning

Jim Dunn
 

开云体育

Workbook lesson 132, paragraph 6...."There is no world!?? This is the central thought the course attempts to teach. Not everyone is ready to accept it, and each one must go as far as he can let himself be led along the road to truth."
As a student of ACIM since 1980, it is amazing that I never comprehended this sentence before I read Disappearance...sometimes we must content ourselves that the truth is right in front of us, and we are just not ready to hear it.? Disappearance has been a Godsend to me..to think that the conclusions I have been making are already in print!?
Jim Dunn

-----Original Message-----
From: Petr Cisar [mailto:pc@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 7:26 AM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: Attitudes of Learning

Hi all? I must admit that this topic made me to think and to get no clear answer.? On one hand, I understand that this world is not real and that it can no way be a product of a sane God and if there is God, then there must be a reality consistent with his nature, with the attributes Course speaks about---no levels, no changes, no differences, eternal existence and constant exchange of love from all to all.? On the other hand, even since I can see myself taking the world I see less seriously, I still do not really know where I am going. I (not surprisingly) can't imagine the Real non-dualistic world, my true identity and God, since this is possible only through experience and I don't remember having one.? So I would guess that my experience is still mostly dualistic, but I am less and less believing in it.? So I will keep doing the Course's workbook and trying to forgive whatever seems to happening in the world and hope that my experience will eventually shift.? Petr



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Re: Non-dualism

Jim Dunn
 

开云体育

My approach to non-dualism is simply to "see" in everyone I meet that this is really a picture of me.. either how I used to be, how I am now, or how I could possible be.. This makes it fun, because at the same time I am interacting at the level of form, a part of my Self is holding the truth that it is all just an intricate hologram my separated self (ego) has projected.
The book has been a Godsend to me, in the sense that the conclusions I made on my own are being confirmed.
Jim Dunn

-----Original Message-----
From: youngnel97 [mailto:youngnel97@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 9:28 AM
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Subject: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Non-dualism

Quantum physics does explain to the intellect that non-dualism is a
fact at the sub-atomic level.? The event and the observer are inter-
connected into one.? The intellect will only carry us so far toward
Oneness realization.?? Constant practice of the teachings will
dissolve the egoic mind and the dream it projects.? It's a long
journey indeed.? In Chaos theory, a small disturbance in a large and
seemingly random system can eventually bring out a profound impact on
the overall system.?? Once we choose the direction toward God, the
awakening is imminent.? It may take many lifetimes.? But time is also
an illusion……



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Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@...



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Non-dualism

 

Quantum physics does explain to the intellect that non-dualism is a
fact at the sub-atomic level. The event and the observer are inter-
connected into one. The intellect will only carry us so far toward
Oneness realization. Constant practice of the teachings will
dissolve the egoic mind and the dream it projects. It's a long
journey indeed. In Chaos theory, a small disturbance in a large and
seemingly random system can eventually bring out a profound impact on
the overall system. Once we choose the direction toward God, the
awakening is imminent. It may take many lifetimes. But time is also
an illusion……
Re: Attitudes of Learning

 

Hi all I must admit that this topic made me to think and to get no clear answer. On one hand, I understand that this world is not real and that it can no way be a product of a sane God and if there is God, then there must be a reality consistent with his nature, with the attributes Course speaks about---no levels, no changes, no differences, eternal existence and constant exchange of love from all to all. On the other hand, even since I can see myself taking the world I see less seriously, I still do not really know where I am going. I (not surprisingly) can't imagine the Real non-dualistic world, my true identity and God, since this is possible only through experience and I don't remember having one. So I would guess that my experience is still mostly dualistic, but I am less and less believing in it. So I will keep doing the Course's workbook and trying to forgive whatever seems to happening in the world and hope that my experience will eventually shift. Petr
Re: Gary: Attitudes of Learning

sapientobserve
 

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "Gary"
<g35813@y...> wrote:
That's an interesting topic, but not an easy one to nail down. I
think the reason for that is best stated by Pursah
in "Disappearance." "You should keep in mind that each of the four
major attitudes of learning are long roads in themselves, and you
will sometimes bounce around like a ping pong ball in between them.


Gary, I think you bring up some good points. I think everyone would
have to agree, the road can be long, and I know I have been road-kill
more times than I would like to remember. I apologize for the
lengthiness of this. My finger would not obey me; even they
recognize they are not real.

Dualism:
I spent over forty years purposely fine-tuning my Dualism attitude.
I would have to say I could Bible thump with the best of them. I
knew God was there, I was here and Jesus was the path to salvation.
Of course, there was always hell to catch you if you fell off the
straight and narrow.

Semi-Dualism:
I would have to say despite my Bible thumping qualities I always had
questions. They haunted me for years and conveniently, I was able to
tuck them in the far reaches of my mind. I think more in fear of
condemnation than anything. However, I could not hide from them
forever. They begin to become real and louder as time went on. How
could God kill what He created? Was punishment (hell) an act of
love? Does perfect love really make one supplicate on a daily
bases? Of course, there was the fear factor. In addition, hell,
where did that come from? For me the door has always been nudging
open. It just took my mind longer get over the fear of God Himself.
Not to mention that is one hell of a pitchfork the devil carries
around. Shiskaboob anyone?

Non-Dualism:
Now this became my answer to all the questions I harbored for all of
those years. Oneness, now there is something to ponder. I used to
entertain how we as bodies are linked through DNA and genetics. Say
you have a child and everyone who comes to see this child always has
comments like, they have your eyes, her mouth. Not to mention the
good old DNA tests for those who lack the courage to admit that child
is theirs and how much is child support.

I knew being a creation of God had to go deeper. I knew He knew me
by my soul (His creation). A level that is conceptually more
difficult to fingerprint in my mind. How does one (spirit) divide
oneself from what is inseparable? Of course, as bodies, we see the
individualism but as spirit, the slicing dicing game does not work.
Run out and try separating the fog one morning. Now if I am truly
Gods creation, then how the hell did I end up in an orphanage (body,
earth)? Who put me on the adoption block? Knowing a loving Father
(God) would never give up His children, I was forced to face the
devil.

Perhaps I never was given up for adoption. So where was I if I was
not adopted out? Perhaps I was nowhere. As any child, I perhaps
longed for the freedom of individualism and dreamed of faraway
places. Of course not realizing what was in my own best interest.
Dreaming a dream of running away and going nowhere. A place where
time and space do not exist and dividing by zero is plausible. It
became apparent I was in a deep REM cycle and the big bang signified
the beginning of my nightmare, by my hand. I now realize reality is
not a dream, but a goal. I know the truth is not out there, but
within. The place where we all are and have never left.

"Spirit is in a state of grace forever. Your reality is only
spirit. Therefore, you are in a state of grace forever."

"God, Who created neither sin nor death, wills not that you be bound
by them."

The Fourth Obstacle: The Fear of God
"What would you see without the fear of death? What would you feel
and think if death held no attraction for you? Very simply, you
would remember your Father. The Creator of life, the Source of
everything that lives, the Father of the universe and of the universe
of universes, and of everything that lies even beyond them would you
remember. And as this memory rises in your mind, peace must still
surmount a final obstacle, after which is salvation complete, and the
Son of God entirely restored to sanity. FOR HERE YOUR WORLD DOES
END."

Pure Non-Dualism
How can we place value on what is not real? Easy! Ever dream of
what it would be like to drive around in Lamborghini Diablo? Live in
your dream house? Visit other countries and travel the world? How
about seeing someone who just begs to be lusted after? We have
placed value on things that are not real. They have a power over us
simply because we have chosen to give them that authority. When I
view someone and see ugly (such as the guy in the mirror) or see
someone who begs to be mentally undressed, I have placed value and
judgment on them. There is no hierarchy in judgment. There are no
good judgments that would be an oxymoron.

ACIM Chapter 20 Page 440
It is impossible to see your brother as sinless and yet to look upon
him as a body. The unholy instant is the time of bodies. Who sees a
brother's body has laid judgment on him, and sees him not.

If I look at the Catholicism and see a myriad of wrongs and bad
judgments. I have fallen into judgment. As Jesus was neither
judgmental nor reactionary (page 39, Arten). Just try not reacting
to the ass that just cut you off in traffic. Yet sitting back and
realizing they are you, one with OUR Father helps shed a little more
forgiveness on the situation. How about Advanced forgiveness (page
38, Arten)? Forgiving what has never been done. Ever been angry
with someone who you knew was not going to do what you asked them to
do? All of these have power over you because you have acknowledged
that power and given rise to its authority.

Nothing is so key to everything. Anything that comes from God must
be exactly like Him. God could not create anything that is not
perfect or else He would not be perfect. Since there is nothing
perfect and eternal in this world, Jesus was able to see it for what
it was…. Nothing (page 39, Arten).

Summary:
I think anyone who believes the truth of the Course and recognizes
the validity of Gary's visitors can intellectualize each one of these
and gain the understanding needed. Faith is a powerful and in
reality moves beyond the intellect. I can add 2 + 2, but must ask
where the hell did 2 come from in the first place? There used to be
this chasm between science and religion, for the most part scientist
were more on the atheist side of belief. I have come to believe that
Quantum Physics is the bridge that connects the two. Even Quantum
Physics recognizes time, space, and everything in between in not
real.

Page 40, Arten: J made a complete and uncompromising distinction
between God and everything else – everything else being totally
insignificant except for the opportunity it provided to listen to the
Holy Spirit's interpretation of it, instead of the world's. I remind
myself that thousands of lifetimes are a lot of undoing.

Thank you,
Sapient
"Always looking for something, someone else thinks they lost."
Gary: Attitudes of Learning

 

That's an interesting topic, but not an easy one to nail down. I
think the reason for that is best stated by Pursah
in "Disappearance." "You should keep in mind that each of the four
major attitudes of learning are long roads in themselves, and you
will sometimes bounce around like a ping pong ball in between them.
The Holy Spirit will correct you along the way and set you back in
the right direction." (P.37) The Holy Spirit works with all people.
They don't have to be studying the Course, but one of the main goals
of the Course is to enable us to hear the Voice for God within us
more clearly.
I personally spent a lot of years in the second attitude of
learning, semi-dualism. That's where I was when Arten and Pursah
first appeared to me. I was a pretty gentle, New Age type Christian
at the time. I knew God was love and Jesus must have practiced
unconditional love and forgiveness, but I didn't see a lot of other
people really emulating him. And of course I've bounced around like
everyone else. Today, I'd say most of the time I'm in the third
attitude of learning, non-dualism. I'm very clear that none of this
is
real, but sometimes it still takes me a while to remember, so I may
temporarily act like I think it's real. Then sometimes I
remember fast. But like everyone else, when it hits the fan it takes
me a
while. I think that's a universal experience. Then there are
times when I've had glimpses of the absolute truth and experiences of
pure non-dualism. They haven't lasted long, but they've been
beatific. Some of them have been so great that I couldn't do anything
else that day except sit there in a stupor of awe. The cool thing is
I know that someday my natural inheritance will be all that I
experience, so it encourages me to apply the Holy Spirit's major
learning tool of forgiveness as often as possible. Peace, Gary.
Attitudes of Learning

sapientobserve
 

I would like to start a discussion thread on the "Four Major
Attitudes of Learning". What are your thoughts around each one
and where do you see yourself in the scale of learning. I have noted
each one for reference.

Dualism
Semi-Dualism
Non-Dualism
Pure Non-Dualism

Thank you,
Sapient
Thanks all new participants!

 

I thank all the new members and Gary on this discussion board. I was
on the Fearless board and saw the "heated" discussions. I choose not
to participate in the positionalities. I like to think of every
person as eternal being of light who shares part of this illusory
world with me. We may be different wavelengths on the spectrum but
we can all shine and occupy the same space together. Together we
only add to the intensity – totally and unconditionally. The
messages of the Course resonate with me that love and forgiveness
will wake me from the world of forms back to the reality of God. The
egoic mind always wants us to create more drama, conflicts, and
opinions to perpetuate the illusion. I welcome everyone who joins
this board in exercising the teachings.
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