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I'm trying to get my head wrapped around the sideband schemes for the TR-4 and have a question. Below is a table of how the sideband lamps react with the various BAND and SIDEBAND switch positions in my TR-4. Is this normal? I suspect it is and it is a matter of getting used to setting the SIDEBAND switch appropriately to get the "proper" sideband and, from what I can see, it's primarily an issue with 40M. Is that correct (and, hopefully nothing is wrong with those switches, etc., in my TR-4)?
BAND SIDEBAND LOWER UPPER
80 X
40 X
20 X
15 X
10 X
10 X
10 X
80 X X
40 X X
20 X X
15 X X
10 X X
10 X X
10 X X
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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X is needed for CW, so the switch will select the carrier to be on LSB for all but 20m. At least I think that's what you're showing because when I replied my email app changed the tab formatting :-)
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
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Show quoted text
On Tuesday, April 1st, 2025 at 2:58 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: I'm trying to get my head wrapped around the sideband schemes for the TR-4 and have a question. Below is a table of how the sideband lamps react with the various BAND and SIDEBAND switch positions in my TR-4. Is this normal? I suspect it is and it is a matter of getting used to setting the SIDEBAND switch appropriately to get the "proper" sideband and, from what I can see, it's primarily an issue with 40M. Is that correct (and, hopefully nothing is wrong with those switches, etc., in my TR-4)?
BAND SIDEBAND LOWER UPPER
80 X
40 X
20 X
15 X
10 X
10 X
10 X
80 X X
40 X X
20 X X
15 X X
10 X X
10 X X
10 X X
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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20 & 80 are the oddballs because they're only single conversion. 80 is the difference between CO and PTO and 20 is 9 MHz the sum. Other bands with difference frequencies.
Also, the sideband filter swaps on 20, I believe (or is it 80?).
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tuesday, April 1st, 2025 at 2:58 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: I'm trying to get my head wrapped around the sideband schemes for the TR-4 and have a question. Below is a table of how the sideband lamps react with the various BAND and SIDEBAND switch positions in my TR-4. Is this normal? I suspect it is and it is a matter of getting used to setting the SIDEBAND switch appropriately to get the "proper" sideband and, from what I can see, it's primarily an issue with 40M. Is that correct (and, hopefully nothing is wrong with those switches, etc., in my TR-4)?
BAND SIDEBAND LOWER UPPER
80 X
40 X
20 X
15 X
10 X
10 X
10 X
80 X X
40 X X
20 X X
15 X X
10 X X
10 X X
10 X X
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Steve,
I sent the chart as space-delimited with a fixed-width font but I suppose something transformed them. Sorry about that.
What I'm trying to understand is how to tune up for, say, 40M SSB.
If I have the BAND switch at 40M and SIDEBAND/X switch at SIDEBAND, then the UPPER lamp is on. From what I understand, without a key inserted and without a PTT mic inserted either, setting MODE to X.CW should allow me to tune up on 40M but it appears I'd be running in USB. Am I misunderstanding something?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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Show quoted text
X is needed for CW, so the switch will select the carrier to be on LSB for all
but 20m. At least I think that's what you're showing because when I replied my
email app changed the tab formatting :-)
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
On Tuesday, April 1st, 2025 at 2:58 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I'm trying to get my head wrapped around the sideband schemes for the TR-4 and
have a question. Below is a table of how the sideband lamps react with the
various BAND and SIDEBAND switch positions in my TR-4. Is this normal? I
suspect it is and it is a matter of getting used to setting the SIDEBAND switch
appropriately to get the "proper" sideband and, from what I can see, it's
primarily an issue with 40M. Is that correct (and, hopefully nothing is wrong
with those switches, etc., in my TR-4)?
BAND SIDEBAND LOWER UPPER
80 X
40 X
20 X
15 X
10 X
10 X
10 X
80 X X
40 X X
20 X X
15 X X
10 X X
10 X X
10 X X
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
You can tune up on either sideband using TUNE, which is an audio tone.
X is always used for CW which offsets the carrier oscillator to put its signal inside the passband of the filter (LSB filter I think).
?
20meters is the only odd ball band that uses the filters backwards (uses LSB filter for USB).? That is the only band that tunes
backwards on the PTO dial.
?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
|
Yes, either sideband is valid for tune-up; however, with the UPPER lamp on, I presume I will also transmit on USB which, of course, is backwards from normal 40M operation.? That's what's confusing me.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ?
You can tune up on either sideband using TUNE, which is an audio tone.
X is always used for CW which offsets the carrier oscillator to put its signal inside the passband of the filter (LSB filter I think).
?
20meters is the only odd ball band that uses the filters backwards (uses LSB filter for USB).? That is the only band that tunes
backwards on the PTO dial.
?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
|
Actually, there is no TUNE position on a TR3/4. One uses CW for tuning. Then, when going on SSB, use the SIDEBAND switch to select the proper sideband.?
The indicator should not be interpreted as automatically selecting the correct sideband.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 17:24, Gary WB6OGD via groups.io < winbladgary@...> wrote:
You can tune up on either sideband using TUNE, which is an audio tone.
X is always used for CW which offsets the carrier oscillator to put its signal inside the passband of the filter (LSB filter I think).
?
20meters is the only odd ball band that uses the filters backwards (uses LSB filter for USB).? That is the only band that tunes
backwards on the PTO dial.
?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
|
Thanks for that clarification! ? This is what I was looking for.
Barry - N4BUQ
The indicator should not be interpreted as automatically selecting the correct sideband.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 17:24, Gary WB6OGD via groups.io <winbladgary@...> wrote:
You can tune up on either sideband using TUNE, which is an audio tone.
X is always used for CW which offsets the carrier oscillator to put its signal inside the passband of the filter (LSB filter I think).
?
20meters is the only odd ball band that uses the filters backwards (uses LSB filter for USB).? That is the only band that tunes
backwards on the PTO dial.
?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
|
I reckon that if the sideband selection was fully in-line with the reality of our conventions that they wouldn¡¯t have needed the lamps and we would be simply selecting manually ¡ª like with the transmitters.?
I have no idea what costs were in 1963, when the original design was done. Two more crystals in, say the late 60s and 70s probably would have been cheaper than all the switching, lamps, etc would have been. Today, of course, crystals are more expensive again.?
Drake wasn¡¯t the only manufacturer that used this scheme ¡ª I believe that Swan did, also, as well as other companies.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 09:39, n4buq < n4buq@...> wrote:
Thanks for that clarification! ?
This is what I was looking for.
Barry - N4BUQ
The indicator should not be interpreted as automatically selecting the correct sideband.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 17:24, Gary WB6OGD via groups.io <
winbladgary@...> wrote:
You can tune up on either sideband using TUNE, which is an audio tone.
X is always used for CW which offsets the carrier oscillator to put its signal inside the passband of the filter (LSB filter I think).
?
20meters is the only odd ball band that uses the filters backwards (uses LSB filter for USB).? That is the only band that tunes
backwards on the PTO dial.
?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
|
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
Thank you for that attachment.? I'll give it a closer read later but the last five pictures are quite helpful.? I think what I mostly confused myself was that I didn't have a key inserted so switching to some of those positions would automatically cause the rig to transmit.? Plugging in a key resolved that for me but I was still questioning the need to go to "X" for the sideband switch because I [mis]understood that X always implied CW.? Steve's answer and Jeff's document straightened that out for me.? The manual certainly discusses Jeff's explanations but I think Jeff's may be a bit clearer - at least to me.? Thanks again guys!
Now to determine why I don't get any output on the two upper 10M bands.? The oscillator is working for all three (verified by the scope and frequency counter) so something else is amiss.? So much fun with this "new" rig!
Barry - N4BUQ
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
I¡¯d seen this before. Accessing it from a phone is fiddly and if I¡¯d remembered it, I¡¯d have gone to a real computer to grab it. Thanks for finding it!
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 11:17, Gary WB6OGD via groups.io < winbladgary@...> wrote:
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
Gary, frequently the problem with the upper 10m bands could be that the xtals aren¡¯t there. If you have all three 10m xtals, look in the alignment section on aligning the three band oscillators (L1, L2 and L5). Set your scope or VTVM on the test point near V1 and adjust each per the manual for peak voltage.?
I just worked on an older TR-4 where the calibrator sounded very rough on all three segments and performance was poor. An adjustment of the 10m coil fixed it all.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 11:42, n4buq < n4buq@...> wrote:
Thank you for that attachment.? I'll give it a closer read later but the last five pictures are quite helpful.? I think what I mostly confused myself was that I didn't have a key inserted so switching to some of those positions would automatically cause the rig to transmit.? Plugging in a key resolved that for me but I was still questioning the need to go to "X" for the sideband switch because I [mis]understood that X always implied CW.? Steve's answer and Jeff's document straightened that out for me.? The manual certainly discusses Jeff's explanations but I think Jeff's may be a bit clearer - at least to me.? Thanks again guys!
Now to determine why I don't get any output on the two upper 10M bands.? The oscillator is working for all three (verified by the scope and frequency counter) so something else is amiss.? So much fun with this "new" rig!
Barry - N4BUQ
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
Yes, I checked those.? They all were probably quite close and I tweaked them to make sure.? All three 10M bands are quite close in negative voltages and the frequencies are extremely close to what they should be.? On the scope, I can see the band switch is fiddly-noisy when I switch between the three 10M bands.? I think I need to see if there are any obvious problems with those wafers and maybe clean them just a bit.? I need to recheck if I can get output on the two upper bands now.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2025 11:49:17 AM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Sideband Selections
Gary, frequently the problem with the upper 10m bands could be that the xtals aren¡¯t there. If you have all three 10m xtals, look in the alignment section on aligning the three band oscillators (L1, L2 and L5). Set your scope or VTVM on the test point near V1 and adjust each per the manual for peak voltage.?
I just worked on an older TR-4 where the calibrator sounded very rough on all three segments and performance was poor. An adjustment of the 10m coil fixed it all.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 11:42, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
Thank you for that attachment.? I'll give it a closer read later but the last five pictures are quite helpful.? I think what I mostly confused myself was that I didn't have a key inserted so switching to some of those positions would automatically cause the rig to transmit.? Plugging in a key resolved that for me but I was still questioning the need to go to "X" for the sideband switch because I [mis]understood that X always implied CW.? Steve's answer and Jeff's document straightened that out for me.? The manual certainly discusses Jeff's explanations but I think Jeff's may be a bit clearer - at least to me.? Thanks again guys!
Now to determine why I don't get any output on the two upper 10M bands.? The oscillator is working for all three (verified by the scope and frequency counter) so something else is amiss.? So much fun with this "new" rig!
Barry - N4BUQ
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
As a follow-up, this must've been operator error.? I just checked and I can get output on all three 10M bands.? It's only about 60W but I think that's not all that abnormal.
Barry - N4BUQ
Yes, I checked those.? They all were probably quite close and I tweaked them to make sure.? All three 10M bands are quite close in negative voltages and the frequencies are extremely close to what they should be.? On the scope, I can see the band switch is fiddly-noisy when I switch between the three 10M bands.? I think I need to see if there are any obvious problems with those wafers and maybe clean them just a bit.? I need to recheck if I can get output on the two upper bands now. Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2025 11:49:17 AM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Sideband Selections
Gary, frequently the problem with the upper 10m bands could be that the xtals aren¡¯t there. If you have all three 10m xtals, look in the alignment section on aligning the three band oscillators (L1, L2 and L5). Set your scope or VTVM on the test point near V1 and adjust each per the manual for peak voltage.?
I just worked on an older TR-4 where the calibrator sounded very rough on all three segments and performance was poor. An adjustment of the 10m coil fixed it all.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 11:42, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
Thank you for that attachment.? I'll give it a closer read later but the last five pictures are quite helpful.? I think what I mostly confused myself was that I didn't have a key inserted so switching to some of those positions would automatically cause the rig to transmit.? Plugging in a key resolved that for me but I was still questioning the need to go to "X" for the sideband switch because I [mis]understood that X always implied CW.? Steve's answer and Jeff's document straightened that out for me.? The manual certainly discusses Jeff's explanations but I think Jeff's may be a bit clearer - at least to me.? Thanks again guys!
Now to determine why I don't get any output on the two upper 10M bands.? The oscillator is working for all three (verified by the scope and frequency counter) so something else is amiss.? So much fun with this "new" rig!
Barry - N4BUQ
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
Many years ago when I owned an early TR-4 after reading the manual it became clear to me that anytime I needed to tune up on a band or another band segment I would ALWAYS go to the "X" position for that function.? After the rig was tuned then I set the switch for the desired sideband based on the band I was operating on.
73, Ron wa7gfe
|
12BA6 RF amp and 6EA8's can affect signal strengths.
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Wednesday, April 2nd, 2025 at 2:17 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
Yes, I checked those.? They all were probably quite close and I tweaked them to make sure.? All three 10M bands are quite close in negative voltages and the frequencies are extremely close to what they should be.? On the scope, I can see the band switch is fiddly-noisy when I switch between the three 10M bands.? I think I need to see if there are any obvious problems with those wafers and maybe clean them just a bit.? I need to recheck if I can get output on the two upper bands now.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2025 11:49:17 AM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Sideband Selections
Gary, frequently the problem with the upper 10m bands could be that the xtals aren¡¯t there. If you have all three 10m xtals, look in the alignment section on aligning the three band oscillators (L1, L2 and L5). Set your scope or VTVM on the test point near V1 and adjust each per the manual for peak voltage.?
I just worked on an older TR-4 where the calibrator sounded very rough on all three segments and performance was poor. An adjustment of the 10m coil fixed it all.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 11:42, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
Thank you for that attachment.? I'll give it a closer read later but the last five pictures are quite helpful.? I think what I mostly confused myself was that I didn't have a key inserted so switching to some of those positions would automatically cause the rig to transmit.? Plugging in a key resolved that for me but I was still questioning the need to go to "X" for the sideband switch because I [mis]understood that X always implied CW.? Steve's answer and Jeff's document straightened that out for me.? The manual certainly discusses Jeff's explanations but I think Jeff's may be a bit clearer - at least to me.? Thanks again guys!
Now to determine why I don't get any output on the two upper 10M bands.? The oscillator is working for all three (verified by the scope and frequency counter) so something else is amiss.? So much fun with this "new" rig!
Barry - N4BUQ
Sorry, I was thinking T-4X and the TUNE mode..
Attached? is a WA8SAJ article that really explains the TR-4..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
|
Gary WB6OGD
Ron Magnus