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T-4XC Final Cathode Resistors
After updating my AC-4, I fired up the T-4XC and am dealing with all of the little usual issues after being dormant for a quarter century.?
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Checked the final Cathode resistors which are 15ohm/1Watt. They are running at 18/17.5 ohms, roughly 20% high.?
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TIA
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Craig/W8CS
Greenville, SC |
In general I'd say use metal film for everything. In this case, maybe consider carbon film and don't overdo the power rating. If the resistor burns out it might just save the tube; metal film can usually take a lot of overload.
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The T4 I've just been working on had run just fine for years with 18ohm (2W metal film) resistors until operator error took them and the tubes out.
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I think the exact value isn't critical. 2 x 33R 0.5W is a simple option.
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Steve G8GSQ |
Carbon film will run at red heat without damage. I spent some of my wasted youth working for a resistor manufacturer. We made established reliability metal film and mil spec carbon film resistors.
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Otherwise I agree. There are oxide coated composition resistors which work well for this sort of application. There are very few virtues to old type carbon composition resistors. They were very widely used for a couple of generations because they were cheap to make. Laser trimming of carbon and metal film has reduced production costs to the point where they are now quite cheap. On 2/8/2025 9:58 AM, Steve G8GSQ via groups.io wrote:
In general I'd say use metal film for everything. In this case, maybe consider carbon film and don't overdo the power rating. If the resistor burns out it might just save the tube; metal film can usually take a lot of overload. --
Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL SKCC 19998 |
One watt is enough. Modern carbon film will do fine, they do not drift. Metal film will also do fine. I think Garry used to recommend oxide coated film. Since the drop is part of the measurement of "plate" current (actually cathode current) the value is of some importance.
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Old fashioned carbon composition resistors were never better than 5% because the heat of soldering them could cause that much drift. On 2/8/2025 6:24 AM, Craig W8CS via groups.io wrote:
After updating my AC-4, I fired up the T-4XC and am dealing with all of the little usual issues after being dormant for a quarter century. --
Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL SKCC 19998 |
In the T-4XC I worked on there's a separate 3.3ohm resistor for the current metering.
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Thanks for the info. on resistors; early in my working life ( mil comms) it was drilled into me that carbon film ones were fragile and to be avoided so I've always stuck with MOF and never questioned it. Always something new to learn.
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73, Steve G8GSQ |
I have an extensive collection of parts that I¡¯ve owned, off and on, since the 1980s (it¡¯s a long story). In this stockpile, I have lots of resistors, including some carbon comps that go back as far as 70 years old.? Most but not all of the CC resistors have drifted out of tolerance and I have enough good ones to throw them out as I go through them.? I¡¯m curious, though, if I could get them back into tolerance by baking them. It¡¯s easy enough to do and I¡¯ve heard hearsay that it could work but have any of you tried it? I¡¯m more interested in trying this with 1 W and larger resistors. I have more than enough 1/2 W and smaller.? 73, Steve Wedge, W1ES Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. Sent from for iOS On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 00:41, Jim VE7RF via groups.io <jim.thom@...> wrote:
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As I mentioned I worked for a manufacturer of carbon and metal film resistors many years ago. We made MIL spec carbon film resistors. They were NOT delicate or fragile. Bot types got tested for strength of leads, we used two methods of fastening leads, swaged end caps and epoxy conductive paint. Either type would take tensil strength tests that would pull apart the ceramic forms before thee leads came loose. Carbon film were generally painted with epoxy and baked, metal film resistors could be painted or molded, depending on application. Carbon film resistors will run at red heat without being destroyed. Sine the general construction of both types is similar there is little difference in strength and resistance to mechanical damage. '
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Our carbon film resistors were made by pyrolityc deposition. Prepared ceramic cores were subjected to a flow of carbon monixide gas in a fused quartz jar under yellow heat. The jar was tumbled during exposure to the gas. The thickness of the coating depended on the time of exposure. Once coated the leads were attached and the blanks were adjusted to the correct value and went through a series of tests before coating and final testing. The metal film resistors being established reliability parts, went through more extensive testing and were generally adjusted to must closer tolerances. The company also made wire wound precision resistors but I have much experience with them than the coated types. I should add that the metal film parts were made by vacuum deposition, the characteristics of the resistors, such as temperature coefficients, being determined by the mixture of metals used and exact details of the evaporation (trade secrets). I think both kinds are now spiraled and trimmed by laser rather than the carbide and diamond saws we used but this was long in the past. In any case deposited carbon resistors are NOT mechanically delicate and are generally difficult to damage. FWIW, metal oxide film resistors are excellent for some applications. A final note: film resistors are no more reactive than carbon composition resistors. In fact, they generally have superior RF characteristics. A good instrument for testing them is the old Boonton 250 RX-Meter but there are many more modern impedance meters that will prove this out. On 2/8/2025 11:59 PM, Steve G8GSQ via groups.io wrote:
In the T-4XC I worked on there's a separate 3.3ohm resistor for the current metering. --
Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL SKCC 19998 |
Carbon comp resistors are sensitive to moisture as well as heat. The resistance to moisture depends a lot on the quality of the housing. About the best of the CC resistors is either Allen-Bradly or Ohmite. They are the same, the resistors were made by AB and marketed by both companies and are recognizable by having the values in both color stripes and printed in ink on the body.
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CC resistors were made by a great many companies, including IRC and Stackpole. In general resistors with seams in the molded bodies will be found to have drifted significantly. CC resistors were never made in tolerances closer than 5% because just the heat of soldering them can most them that far. While they are supposed to have some advantage for handling pulses I don't think that makes a difference for most applications. For them most part they should be avoided as either replacements or new work. CC resistors are made from a slurry of granulated carbon in a carrier of an insulating material with a binder. Drift depends on absorption of moisture and heat. It is not moisture alone. Heat can change the way the carbon particles contact each other in a non reversible way. I was never involved directly in making them so don't know the details. In the industry they were called "mud" resistors. While they are supposed by some to be superior for RF applications it is a myth as measurements will demonstrate. On 2/9/2025 4:39 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io wrote:
I have an extensive collection of parts that I¡¯ve owned, off and on, since the 1980s (it¡¯s a long story). In this stockpile, I have lots of resistors, including some carbon comps that go back as far as 70 years old. --
Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL SKCC 19998 |
I think both kinds are now
spiraled and trimmed by laser rather than the carbide and diamond saws*** I worked for a telephone equipment manufacturer in the mid-70's. We had a rig for laser-trimming surface mount resistors on hybrids( small circuits assembled on ceramic substrates ). - Jerry, KF6VB |
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