Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?Thanks for an incredibly dramatic illustration Rob!!
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
" He who gets there first gets to create the standards ".
I note that in my Central Electronics 20A you could still select the sideband independent of the band.
John K5MO
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:58?PM Rob Sherwood < rob@...> wrote:
Hi Rick,
?
Until the advent of direct sampling radios, or at least direct sampling band scopes (TS-890S), informing a station of his excessive transmit bandwidth was blamed
on my receiver.? Now what we see on the generic term SDR radios is reality whether the offending ham wants to believe it or not.?
?
If the signal to noise ratio is good enough, today we can easily see splatter or key clicks down 50 dB.? That is where PureSignal or Icom DPD shines with signals
that are virtually rectangles on both the scope and the waterfall.? Here is an example of what PureSignal with an Apache looks like vs. a typical rig, in this case my TS-890S.
?
?
Rob, NC0B
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
And there are also some that are (seemingly unbeknownst to them) operating outside the band edge running MORE than roughly 3kHz wide.
After I verified it on different SDRs around the country !!,? I tried to explain to one (Extra Class "Amateur") station that he was 5kHz wide with a suppressed carrier frequency of 14347 USB and was 2kHz out the top of the band!? He actually told me that it
must be my equipment......All I wanted to do is inform him before a VM (Volunteer Monitor)? did!
Unfortunately, Some are their own worst enemies when they turn all knobs to the right (and then intentionally crank the BW to? 3 or more kHz)
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 10:23 AM, Rob Sherwood wrote:
Decades ago hams often operated on USB on 7.297 kHz so their opposite sideband wasn¡¯t out of band.? Opposite
sideband attenuation often wasn¡¯t as good as it is today.? On the other hand, transmit IMD (splatter) with tube PAs was often much lower than today with solid-state PAs. ?
?
Rob, NC0B ??
?
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Hi Rick,
?
Until the advent of direct sampling radios, or at least direct sampling band scopes (TS-890S), informing a station of his excessive transmit bandwidth was blamed
on my receiver.? Now what we see on the generic term SDR radios is reality whether the offending ham wants to believe it or not.?
?
If the signal to noise ratio is good enough, today we can easily see splatter or key clicks down 50 dB.? That is where PureSignal or Icom DPD shines with signals
that are virtually rectangles on both the scope and the waterfall.? Here is an example of what PureSignal with an Apache looks like vs. a typical rig, in this case my TS-890S.
?
?
Rob, NC0B
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
And there are also some that are (seemingly unbeknownst to them) operating outside the band edge running MORE than roughly 3kHz wide.
After I verified it on different SDRs around the country !!,? I tried to explain to one (Extra Class "Amateur") station that he was 5kHz wide with a suppressed carrier frequency of 14347 USB and was 2kHz out the top of the band!? He actually told me that it
must be my equipment......All I wanted to do is inform him before a VM (Volunteer Monitor)? did!
Unfortunately, Some are their own worst enemies when they turn all knobs to the right (and then intentionally crank the BW to? 3 or more kHz)
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 10:23 AM, Rob Sherwood wrote:
Decades ago hams often operated on USB on 7.297 kHz so their opposite sideband wasn¡¯t out of band.? Opposite
sideband attenuation often wasn¡¯t as good as it is today.? On the other hand, transmit IMD (splatter) with tube PAs was often much lower than today with solid-state PAs. ?
?
Rob, NC0B ??
?
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
So true about the FT-101E or EE, not very good from an overload standpoint. I can't complain as my father purchased an National NC-2-40C and Viking Ranger for me at age 14 when I had my general class license. I didn't get my R-4 until I was in college, and my T-4X couple years later. TR-4/TR-4C, a C-Line, let alone a 7-line, were long after I was working in broadcasting at KOA in Denver paid for on my own dime.
Rob, NC0B
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Shorney Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 2:12 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:17:25 +0000 "Rob Sherwood" <rob@...> wrote: For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips. Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or R-7? I thinks some of that was happening in the TR8 prototypes. Of which samples are known to still exist. By that point the handwriting was on the wall. The Japanese could produce fancy radios faster and cheaper. Money talks. I am sure your remember when the Yaesu FT-101xx hit the market. They were cheap and flew off the shelves. Better than a TR7? No, not by a long shot. I lusted after the TR7 when I was a broke teenage ham but I lobbied my parents for a FT-101. They said no. I guess they thought my HW-101 was good enough (which it actually was). To this day I have never owned a FT-101 and I probably never will for good reasons. :) A decade later I had my first TR7. I still have that radio and have put a lot of hours on it. -- 73 -Jim NU0C
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
I have been there, done that. After telling them I have verified it on my radio and at least one independent WebSDR I never hear from them again. I have pretty much given up on the idea. On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 13:19:01 -0700 "Rick W4XA" <myr748@...> wrote: And there are also some that are (seemingly unbeknownst to them) operating outside the band edge running MORE than roughly 3kHz wide.
After I verified it on different SDRs around the country !!,? I tried to explain to one (Extra Class "Amateur") station that he was 5kHz wide with a suppressed carrier frequency of 14347 USB and was 2kHz out the top of the band!? He actually told me that it must be my equipment......All I wanted to do is inform him before a VM (Volunteer Monitor)? did! -- 73 -Jim NU0C
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
And there are also some that are (seemingly unbeknownst to them) operating outside the band edge running MORE than roughly 3kHz wide.
After I verified it on different SDRs around the country !!,? I tried to explain to one (Extra Class "Amateur") station that he was 5kHz wide with a suppressed carrier frequency of 14347 USB and was 2kHz out the top of the band!? He actually told me that it must be my equipment......All I wanted to do is inform him before a VM (Volunteer Monitor)? did!
Unfortunately, Some are their own worst enemies when they turn all knobs to the right (and then intentionally crank the BW to? 3 or more kHz)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 10:23 AM, Rob Sherwood wrote:
Decades ago hams often operated on USB on 7.297 kHz so their opposite sideband wasn¡¯t out of band.? Opposite sideband attenuation often wasn¡¯t as good as it is today.? On the other hand, transmit IMD (splatter) with tube PAs was often much lower than today with solid-state PAs. ?
?
Rob, NC0B ??
?
? --
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Yes it is too bad Drake didn¡¯t get the timing better for the TR-7 and R-7 vs. the rigs that landed in embassies around the world some years later.?? Rob, NC0B
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of VE7PS
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 2:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Evan/Rob;
In addition to the TR-4310 transceiver, aka TR-7(A) + RV-75, the
R-4245 receiver was also pretty much an R-7(A) with an RV-75 built in.? Both rigs are among the rarest Drakes around. Both rigs were rack mount style, as were some of the other variants that preceded them, though I believe most, if not
all, of those did not have the digital VFO.? The RR-3, for instance, essentially a rack mount version of the R-7/R-7A, has the non-digital PTO.
?
The RV-75 was part of the TR-7, called the 4310.
On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 02:14:27 PM EDT, Rob Sherwood <rob@...> wrote:
What I didn¡¯t like about the old mixing scheme was my TR-4 and later TR-4C tuned backwards on 80m. This complicated the frequency scales of the discs immensely.? By the time
the TR-4Cw with RIT came along the old-style mixing method could have been replaced, but that wasn¡¯t Drake¡¯s style of management.?
?
For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips.? Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or R-7?? The R-4C power supply could have been
updated by the factory like my RPS-4 board.? The L-4B power supply needed updating like Harbach and others did.?
?
Sadly slow to react US amateur OEMs faded away with Ten-Tec the last of the vintage US companies.? Flex and Elecraft revived the US OEMs though the larger volume OEMs are still
out of Japan.?
?
With software (firmware) running all current products, it is interesting to see the variation in software stability across different brands.
?
Rob, NC0B
?
From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Manufacturers meaning Drake, right??
The majority of the others, Collins, Heath, Hallicrafters, Sideband Engrs, National? used single SSB filters and selectable crystal carrier/BFO oscillators to move the suppressed carrier frequency from one side of the filter passband to the other while without
shifting the final output frequency.
Swan (single filter)? put a USB/LSB "line" on the 350/500 VFO readout so you could retune when switching. (the 350 didn't even allow you to switch)? And many of their radios sideband switching selector was labeled "NORM/Opposite" to keep the myth going
Never did understand why Drake (one of the few "odd men out") used 2 filters.? Later even Kenwood and Icom and I think Yaesu used only 1 SSB filter Although many Yaesu radios (like Swan)? needed to retune to get back to the original freq.
The phasing transmitters did a simpler and better job of staying on the same suppressed carrier frequency!
"NORM" should have always been upper sideband!? But as always,? I digress!!
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 05:12 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far more expensive than two simple crystals.?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Correct, but more of a commercial product for the government.?? Rob, NC0B
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Evan via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 1:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
The RV-75 was part of the TR-7, called the 4310.
On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 02:14:27 PM EDT, Rob Sherwood <rob@...> wrote:
What I didn¡¯t like about the old mixing scheme was my TR-4 and later TR-4C tuned backwards on 80m. This complicated the frequency
scales of the discs immensely.? By the time the TR-4Cw with RIT came along the old-style mixing method could have been replaced, but that wasn¡¯t Drake¡¯s style of management.?
?
For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips.? Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or
R-7?? The R-4C power supply could have been updated by the factory like my RPS-4 board. ?The L-4B power supply needed updating like Harbach and others did.?
?
Sadly slow to react US amateur OEMs faded away with Ten-Tec the last of the vintage US companies.? Flex and Elecraft revived the US
OEMs though the larger volume OEMs are still out of Japan.?
?
With software (firmware) running all current products, it is interesting to see the variation in software stability across different
brands.
?
Rob, NC0B
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Manufacturers meaning Drake, right??
The majority of the others, Collins, Heath, Hallicrafters, Sideband Engrs, National? used single SSB filters and selectable crystal carrier/BFO oscillators to move the suppressed carrier frequency from one side of the filter passband to the other while without
shifting the final output frequency.
Swan (single filter)? put a USB/LSB "line" on the 350/500 VFO readout so you could retune when switching. (the 350 didn't even allow you to switch)? And many of their radios sideband switching selector was labeled "NORM/Opposite" to keep the myth going
Never did understand why Drake (one of the few "odd men out") used 2 filters.? Later even Kenwood and Icom and I think Yaesu used only 1 SSB filter Although many Yaesu radios (like Swan)? needed to retune to get back to the original freq.
The phasing transmitters did a simpler and better job of staying on the same suppressed carrier frequency!
"NORM" should have always been upper sideband!? But as always,? I digress!!
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 05:12 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far
more expensive than two simple crystals.?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:17:25 +0000 "Rob Sherwood" <rob@...> wrote: For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips. Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or R-7? I thinks some of that was happening in the TR8 prototypes. Of which samples are known to still exist. By that point the handwriting was on the wall. The Japanese could produce fancy radios faster and cheaper. Money talks. I am sure your remember when the Yaesu FT-101xx hit the market. They were cheap and flew off the shelves. Better than a TR7? No, not by a long shot. I lusted after the TR7 when I was a broke teenage ham but I lobbied my parents for a FT-101. They said no. I guess they thought my HW-101 was good enough (which it actually was). To this day I have never owned a FT-101 and I probably never will for good reasons. :) A decade later I had my first TR7. I still have that radio and have put a lot of hours on it. -- 73 -Jim NU0C
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Evan/Rob;
In addition to the TR-4310 transceiver, aka TR-7(A) + RV-75, the R-4245 receiver was also pretty much an R-7(A) with an RV-75 built in.? Both rigs are among the rarest Drakes around. Both rigs were rack mount style, as were some of the other variants that preceded them, though I believe most, if not all, of those did not have the digital VFO.? The RR-3, for instance, essentially a rack mount version of the R-7/R-7A, has the non-digital PTO.
73, Peter VE7PS
The RV-75 was part of the TR-7, called the 4310.
On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 02:14:27 PM EDT, Rob Sherwood < rob@...> wrote:
What I didn¡¯t like about the old mixing scheme was my TR-4 and later TR-4C tuned backwards on 80m. This complicated the frequency scales of the discs immensely.?
By the time the TR-4Cw with RIT came along the old-style mixing method could have been replaced, but that wasn¡¯t Drake¡¯s style of management.?
?
For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips.? Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or R-7?? The R-4C power supply
could have been updated by the factory like my RPS-4 board.? The L-4B power supply needed updating like Harbach and others did.?
?
Sadly slow to react US amateur OEMs faded away with Ten-Tec the last of the vintage US companies.? Flex and Elecraft revived the US OEMs though the larger volume
OEMs are still out of Japan.?
?
With software (firmware) running all current products, it is interesting to see the variation in software stability across different brands.
?
Rob, NC0B
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Manufacturers meaning Drake, right??
The majority of the others, Collins, Heath, Hallicrafters, Sideband Engrs, National? used single SSB filters and selectable crystal carrier/BFO oscillators to move the suppressed carrier frequency from one side of the filter passband to the other while without
shifting the final output frequency.
Swan (single filter)? put a USB/LSB "line" on the 350/500 VFO readout so you could retune when switching. (the 350 didn't even allow you to switch)? And many of their radios sideband switching selector was labeled "NORM/Opposite" to keep the myth going
Never did understand why Drake (one of the few "odd men out") used 2 filters.? Later even Kenwood and Icom and I think Yaesu used only 1 SSB filter Although many Yaesu radios (like Swan)? needed to retune to get back to the original freq.
The phasing transmitters did a simpler and better job of staying on the same suppressed carrier frequency!
"NORM" should have always been upper sideband!? But as always,? I digress!!
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 05:12 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far more expensive than two simple crystals.?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
The RV-75 was part of the TR-7, called the 4310.
On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 02:14:27 PM EDT, Rob Sherwood <rob@...> wrote:
What I didn¡¯t like about the old mixing scheme was my TR-4 and later TR-4C tuned backwards on 80m. This complicated the frequency scales of the discs immensely.?
By the time the TR-4Cw with RIT came along the old-style mixing method could have been replaced, but that wasn¡¯t Drake¡¯s style of management.?
?
For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips.? Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or R-7?? The R-4C power supply
could have been updated by the factory like my RPS-4 board. ?The L-4B power supply needed updating like Harbach and others did.?
?
Sadly slow to react US amateur OEMs faded away with Ten-Tec the last of the vintage US companies.? Flex and Elecraft revived the US OEMs though the larger volume
OEMs are still out of Japan.?
?
With software (firmware) running all current products, it is interesting to see the variation in software stability across different brands.
?
Rob, NC0B
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Manufacturers meaning Drake, right??
The majority of the others, Collins, Heath, Hallicrafters, Sideband Engrs, National? used single SSB filters and selectable crystal carrier/BFO oscillators to move the suppressed carrier frequency from one side of the filter passband to the other while without
shifting the final output frequency.
Swan (single filter)? put a USB/LSB "line" on the 350/500 VFO readout so you could retune when switching. (the 350 didn't even allow you to switch)? And many of their radios sideband switching selector was labeled "NORM/Opposite" to keep the myth going
Never did understand why Drake (one of the few "odd men out") used 2 filters.? Later even Kenwood and Icom and I think Yaesu used only 1 SSB filter Although many Yaesu radios (like Swan)? needed to retune to get back to the original freq.
The phasing transmitters did a simpler and better job of staying on the same suppressed carrier frequency!
"NORM" should have always been upper sideband!? But as always,? I digress!!
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 05:12 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far more expensive than two simple crystals.?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
What I didn¡¯t like about the old mixing scheme was my TR-4 and later TR-4C tuned backwards on 80m. This complicated the frequency scales of the discs immensely.?
By the time the TR-4Cw with RIT came along the old-style mixing method could have been replaced, but that wasn¡¯t Drake¡¯s style of management.?
?
For instance the DR-7 board of the TR-7 could have been simplified to a few chips.? Why didn¡¯t the RV-75 ever show up in a TR-7 or R-7?? The R-4C power supply
could have been updated by the factory like my RPS-4 board. ?The L-4B power supply needed updating like Harbach and others did.?
?
Sadly slow to react US amateur OEMs faded away with Ten-Tec the last of the vintage US companies.? Flex and Elecraft revived the US OEMs though the larger volume
OEMs are still out of Japan.?
?
With software (firmware) running all current products, it is interesting to see the variation in software stability across different brands.
?
Rob, NC0B
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Manufacturers meaning Drake, right??
The majority of the others, Collins, Heath, Hallicrafters, Sideband Engrs, National? used single SSB filters and selectable crystal carrier/BFO oscillators to move the suppressed carrier frequency from one side of the filter passband to the other while without
shifting the final output frequency.
Swan (single filter)? put a USB/LSB "line" on the 350/500 VFO readout so you could retune when switching. (the 350 didn't even allow you to switch)? And many of their radios sideband switching selector was labeled "NORM/Opposite" to keep the myth going
Never did understand why Drake (one of the few "odd men out") used 2 filters.? Later even Kenwood and Icom and I think Yaesu used only 1 SSB filter Although many Yaesu radios (like Swan)? needed to retune to get back to the original freq.
The phasing transmitters did a simpler and better job of staying on the same suppressed carrier frequency!
"NORM" should have always been upper sideband!? But as always,? I digress!!
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 05:12 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far more expensive than two simple crystals.?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Manufacturers meaning Drake, right??
The majority of the others, Collins, Heath, Hallicrafters, Sideband Engrs, National? used single SSB filters and selectable crystal carrier/BFO oscillators to move the suppressed carrier frequency from one side of the filter passband to the other while without shifting the final output frequency.
Swan (single filter)? put a USB/LSB "line" on the 350/500 VFO readout so you could retune when switching. (the 350 didn't even allow you to switch)? And many of their radios sideband switching selector was labeled "NORM/Opposite" to keep the myth going
Never did understand why Drake (one of the few "odd men out") used 2 filters.? Later even Kenwood and Icom and I think Yaesu used only 1 SSB filter Although many Yaesu radios (like Swan)? needed to retune to get back to the original freq.
The phasing transmitters did a simpler and better job of staying on the same suppressed carrier frequency!
"NORM" should have always been upper sideband!? But as always,? I digress!!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 05:12 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far more expensive than two simple crystals.?
?
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
?
?
?
?
? --
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Decades ago hams often operated on USB on 7.297 kHz so their opposite sideband wasn¡¯t out of band.? Opposite sideband attenuation often wasn¡¯t as good as it
is today.? On the other hand, transmit IMD (splatter) with tube PAs was often much lower than today with solid-state PAs. ?
?
As to IMD splatter in general, Apache has PureSignal pre-distortion and Icom with the 7610 has DPD (digital pre-distortion). The reduction in splatter is dramatic,
including distortion products on the opposite sideband.? Transmitter specs today often quote opposite sideband rejection more than 50 dB.? That would be with a single test tone and not indicative of the actual splatter power in the opposite sideband.?? The
IC-7600 was particularly poor in this respect.? It appeared the opposite sideband rejection was only 20 dB, which in reality was just IMD splatter.
?
Rob, NC0B ??
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rick W4XA
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 1:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
?
Hi Gary,
You are indeed in the minority knowing this gem of information!? The old ARC-5? 5.000-5.500 MHz VFO was perfect for this use!
I spent a fair amount of time trying to explain why I was using USB on 40 and 75 operating from Military (and civil) transport type aircraft from 1981 to 2018.?? I have since retired and even now, still use USB on 40 and 75.
You see, only "amateurs" and CB'ers use lower sideband on any MF/HF band.?? The rest of the MF/HF world standardized with USB long ago.
One would think that if those "amateurs" were really serious about inter-operating with the rest of that MF/HF world, and actually be "ready" for emergency communications with MF/HF Marine and Land Mobile services (many of which have
radios that don't operate on LSB) those "amateurs" would also agree to "standardize".??
But it will never happen.?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
|
Re: T-4XB Carrier Oscillator
Not yet, Glenn.? I am still puzzled at the voltages on pins 2 and 3.? I can't help but think that the ALC side of the 12AX7 is playing a part.
I had to continue working on some other items I have had waiting but will return to it.? Right now, the weather is too go to remain in the cellar.? Going for around 26C today...
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, March 31st, 2024 at 11:54 AM, Glenn, OZ1HFT <glenn.mh.dk@...> wrote:
Have you rectified the problem(s)?
I am curious.
--
best regards,
Glenn, OZ1HFT
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Re: T-4XB Carrier Oscillator
Have you rectified the problem(s)?
I am curious.
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best regards,
Glenn, OZ1HFT
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Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
And yet, for some reason, manufacturers maintained this configuration, necessitating the use of an extra filter ¡ª which is by far more expensive than two simple crystals.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 03:05, Rick W4XA < myr748@...> wrote: Hi Gary,
You are indeed in the minority knowing this gem of information!? The old ARC-5? 5.000-5.500 MHz VFO was perfect for this use!
I spent a fair amount of time trying to explain why I was using USB on 40 and 75 operating from Military (and civil) transport type aircraft from 1981 to 2018.?? I have since retired and even now, still use USB on 40 and 75.
You see, only "amateurs" and CB'ers use lower sideband on any MF/HF band.?? The rest of the MF/HF world standardized with USB long ago.
One would think that if those "amateurs" were really serious about inter-operating with the rest of that MF/HF world, and actually be "ready" for emergency communications with MF/HF Marine and Land Mobile services (many of which have radios that don't operate on LSB) those "amateurs" would also agree to "standardize".??
But it will never happen.?
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73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
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Re: Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
Hi Gary,
You are indeed in the minority knowing this gem of information!? The old ARC-5? 5.000-5.500 MHz VFO was perfect for this use!
I spent a fair amount of time trying to explain why I was using USB on 40 and 75 operating from Military (and civil) transport type aircraft from 1981 to 2018.?? I have since retired and even now, still use USB on 40 and 75.
You see, only "amateurs" and CB'ers use lower sideband on any MF/HF band.?? The rest of the MF/HF world standardized with USB long ago.
One would think that if those "amateurs" were really serious about inter-operating with the rest of that MF/HF world, and actually be "ready" for emergency communications with MF/HF Marine and Land Mobile services (many of which have radios that don't operate on LSB) those "amateurs" would also agree to "standardize".??
But it will never happen.?
--
73/Rick
W4XA
*Every post is created using Linux
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Those of us members in the HALF Century (or more) Wireless Association
I¡¯m sitting here looking at my wonderful digital streaming audio system, and the Digital to Analog Inverter most often says USB as the operating mode. I can¡¯t help thinking about Upper SideBand! Just the musty mindset of aging¡
I thought I would share ancient history about USB, and its cousin, LSB.
Aside from Collins, who generally formed the SSB signals in their 455 Kc IF¡¯s, many other manufacturers generated the SSB signals at 9 Mc. This was true whether the generation method was phasing (Central Electronics and Hallicrafters, among others) or filter (Hallicrafters and others). McCoy even made 9 Mc filters for builders who could build their own SSB transmitters. Ten Tec used this IF through the Orion II!
The neat thing about this was that one could use a simple 5.0 to 5.5 Mc VFO to add with the 9 Mc SSB IF to get 20 meters and subtract the same two signals to get 75 meters. This saved the cost of two crystals in the radios. This inanely stupid cost saving choice is the ONLY reason why USB is used on bands higher than 9 Mc and LSB on all bands lower than 9 Mc.
I just find it amusing how ¡°standards¡± are established for no real technical reason¡
Gary
W0DVN
PS:Still thinking about Upper SideBand when I look at the display on my DAC...
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Re: T-4XB & R-4B For Sale
Steve,
?I always thought someone changed the knob on my R4B at some time in the past, but when I saw the picture of the R4B with the same knob I thought that's weird.
Anyway, thanks for the explanation.
? Also in the pictures provided the VOX or Anti VOX trim pots have their shafts chipped funny mine are the same. I 3D printed some caps?
that slid on the shafts to make it easier to adjust the trim pots.
Dave
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Rob Sherwood
Jim Shorney
W6MQI