I did some more reading about the dim bulb tester and I agree that it is a good method to prevent my filament fuse wire from opening and instead make a light bulb glow! Now that I have a better understanding on what it actually does I will look into building one.
Thank you very much for your suggestion!
Mark
|
Re: Drake SPR-4 50 Khz IF and 50 Khz Filter alignment
Thanks Jim, I will do it this evening but it quite strange that it is happening the same issue in both SPR4,s that I have.
?
I have come across with other advice, a 11 meg ohm input meter will drag the AGC down. The voltmeter I have , a Sanwa Em 700 has an internal resistance as high as 2,5 to M Ohms.
?
?https://www.zerobeat.net/drakelist/drakemod/drmod10.html
|
Re: Strain Relief for AC-4
I usually use a chassis punch for 1/2 inch or greater holes. ?Trying to drill a hole that big without a drill press can be difficult, if not dangerous. ?I¡¯ve found Greenlee chassis punches on EBay, new for a real good price; for a 1/2 inch pinch, I think that requires a 1/4 inch hole, so it¡¯s probably beyond that right now. ?I have a drill guide, but have never tried to use it; probably would need to clamp the guide to the chassis. ?I¡¯ve also never tried a Unibit; I understand they keep dropping through to the next larger hole size for big holes. ?I use a counter sink to place a bevel edge in the existing hole which helps to keep the bit centered. ?This works if you have a set of bits; incrementally increase the bit size followed by the counter sink bit. ?It takes some time, but works.
?
Mike, N4KZO
|
Re: Strain Relief for AC-4
Cable glands are a wonderful thing, I replaced the squish and smash strain relief on my Alpha 76 when I put a new power cord in with a suitable size gland. Easy-peasy and no stress on the wires. On Wed, 28 May 2025 02:11:11 +0000 "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...> wrote: Ill take a look at this tomorrow with my 27¡± monitor :1)
Steve Wedge, W1ES -- 73 -Jim NU0C
|
Re: Strain Relief for AC-4
Ill take a look at this tomorrow with my 27¡± monitor :1)
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 21:36, Jim Shorney via groups.io < jimNU0C@...> wrote: How about something like this?
https://www.platt.com/p/0303520/mencom/pg-9-cable-gland-0157-to-0315-black/menpcg09b
On Tue, 27 May 2025 18:04:33 -0700
"Michael Smith via groups.io" <tw8kcabpilot@...> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Knowing that you asked for 16/3 power cord information, I¡¯ll pass along what I found with a suggestion. ?Here is a photo of a late make that has an 18/3 SVT 300V power cord installed, from the factory, best I can tell; it¡¯s about five feet long.
--
73
-Jim
NU0C
|
Re: Strain Relief for AC-4
Thanks, Mike. I have the install tool somewhere in my stockroom. 18 is probably fine?
I¡¯ll need to look this up. To do a 1/2¡± round hole, I¡¯ll likely see if I can use a reamer to get it almost to size, then a drill bit.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 21:04, Michael Smith via groups.io < tw8kcabpilot@...> wrote:
Steve,
?
Knowing that you asked for 16/3 power cord information, I¡¯ll pass along what I found with a suggestion. ?Here is a photo of a late make that has an 18/3 SVT 300V power cord installed, from the factory, best I can tell; it¡¯s about five feet long. ?You are correct that 14 AWG is not needed. ?The 18/3 SVT power cord with PVC insulation, etc. is safely rated at 10 amps; the 120 VAC load calculation for a TR-4C with three final tubes is 3.7 amps based on the loads outlined in the manual. ?Considering a normal design safety margin, Drake is specifying a 5 amp time delay fuse for the AC-4, while there is no need for a time delay fuse, and I tend to use the smallest size fast-response (AGC) fuse that will work to protect the transformer as it should, but I¡¯m digressing a bit. ?If you don¡¯t have your mind completely set on a 16/3 power cord, I suggest you use an 18/3 SVT with much less stiffness.
?
Now, I looked for the usual Heyco marking on the strain relief in the photo, but none was there. ?The round hole size you see is 0.5 inches. ?I bought a handy install tool from one of the parts supply warehouses online, if you don¡¯t have one; I struggled a bit until finding this a few of years ago. ?I need to get back to work now, or I would look up the Heyco number for you. ?You can go to their website, find the one you want/need, and they will sample a few to you upon request if in stock at their warehouse; you can then check it out and order more when needed.
In summary, an 18/3 SVT power is much more than sufficient for the AC-4 loads; apparently Drake made that determination when they started installing a ground with the power cord.
?
73,
Mike, N4KZO
|
For those who don't know how the TR4/TR4C/TR4CW filament circuit is
fused,
I have all 4 Drake TR3, TR4, TR4C, and TR4CW HF series transceiver
manuals
on my website for downloading. Click the following link then scroll
down to the
Drake manual listing and click the appropriate TR3/4 series manual.
The Drake TR3 has a physical "pigtail" fuse in series between pin 4
of the power
connector and the lamp and filament wiring.
Drake changed the "pigtail" fuse in the TR4, TR4C, and TR4CW to a 1
& 1/2" length
of #26 tinned wire in series with pin 4 of the power connector to
the lamp and filament
wiring. This is stated in the TR4, TR4C, and TR4CW schematics.
73
Mike W5RKL
On 5/27/25 7:09 PM, Mark N2DMI via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Ken I looked for a dim bulb tester on youtube and I don't see
how that would help me?
It looks like you put the AC line cord into one end and a
light bulb tells you if you have a short or not.
I believe the filament fuse circuit is on the 12.6VAC
circuit.
I need something that will tell me what is causing the fuse
to blow. Or guidance on how to troubleshoot.
The rig was working beautifully except for one of the USB or
LSB not making good contact. When I moved the bulb?
around to make better contact is when the fuse first blew. I
don't see either of the bulb sockets touching
anything so I can't figure out why the filament keeps
popping?
Mark
|
Re: Strain Relief for AC-4
How about something like this? On Tue, 27 May 2025 18:04:33 -0700 "Michael Smith via groups.io" <tw8kcabpilot@...> wrote: Steve,
Knowing that you asked for 16/3 power cord information, I¡¯ll pass along what I found with a suggestion. ?Here is a photo of a late make that has an 18/3 SVT 300V power cord installed, from the factory, best I can tell; it¡¯s about five feet long. -- 73 -Jim NU0C
|
It should be obvious that where you messed with the bulb is the cause of the current problem.? Look for the obvious first.
?
If the fuse didn't blow quickly, the short you caused may have removed insulation from that wire (supplying Voltage to those items you stated were not lit.? Again, look for the obvious.
?
73, Bill, K8TE
|
I'd be surprised if the're not D'Arsonval meters.
If you see a moving coil it's a D'Arsonval meter.
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Show quoted text
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 7:40?PM Richard Knoppow via <1oldlens1= [email protected]> wrote: Are these in fact moving coil meters.? Don't look like it.?? Moving coil (d'Arsenval) meters act like motors, if you short the terminals a back- emf is generated which demos the Meyer.? The Drake meters do not show this effect.? They may use eddy current damping but I have never figured out how it is accomplished.? If these meters were properly damped when new then something has changed. What?? Can it be changed back?? There has never been a satisfactory answer in this list, or anywhere else I can find on the web.?? I have read everything I can find on the theory of voltmeters but not any of the sort used by Drake.? Maybe I am just not smart enough, but no one else seems to either.? It is very frustrating.? Putting capacitors across the meter does not seem to work, although frequently suggested.? I suspect it is wishful thinking and those suggesting it have never actually tried it.? A practical answer would be very welcome, the bouncing meters (sounds like a vaudeville act) can make them virtually useless.
-------- Original message -------- Date: 5/27/25 1:31 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR3/4 Meters
The needle damping is electrical by design?due to eddy currents in the armature of the moving coil, thus can not changeable.
73 de Andrew/N5ASE On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 10:46?AM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via <w1es= [email protected]> wrote: Hi, Craig ¡ª
These solutions have been discussed before. The best we have found is that the bouncing meter problem is entirely mechanical. People have tried swamping with capacitance to no avail. It has something to do with mechanical damping.?
Interestingly, it¡¯s only these edge-reading meters that manifest the bouncing problem. In fact, one can see the problem with no power applied at all and shorting the terminals makes no difference.?
I don¡¯t have a scrap meter that bounces or I¡¯d start to get inside it and see if any sort of adjustment could be made.?
The owner of this set has told me that it¡¯s not important To him but I¡¯d still like to find an answer!
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 09:20, Craig W8CS via < craig_severson@...> wrote:
I hesitate to offer this as it's not what you're asking for, but if you can't find a direct solution, you might try experimenting with some caps across the meter leads to slow down the time constant of the meter response.?
?
Start by adding something ridiculously large (mF-wise)? to see if it over-compensates and makes the meter "too slow," and then adjust down from there.?
--
Craig/W8CS
Greenville, SC
|
A (somewhat) OTT solution would be to relegate the voltage measurement to a RaspiPI Pico (RP2040?microcontroller) ($12 for 2):
AMAZON -?2Pcs Raspberry Pi Pico Development Board, Raspberry Pi RP2040
and a program to over-drive the hardware voltmeter so that it settles faster at the actual voltage.
Use one of the five built-in A/D converters to sense the voltage being measured and one of the 8 built-in PWM channels to output the voltage with overdrive to coubteract the excessive time constant of the analog voltmeter.? Use another ADC channel to measure the voltage across a trim pot so you can adjust the new time constant to your pleasure without reprogramming.? Note the Pico has enough I/O for FOUR meters, so that's comes to a whopping $1.50/meter. :-)
The RP2040 may be $6 but it's specs weigh-in at 642 pages:
RASPBERRY PI - RP2040 Microcontroller (Datasheet)
A/D:? ? ?p. 557?(PDF p. 558) PWM:? p. 521 (PDF p. 522)
This reply was prepared with the assitance of GeminiAI for the number of A/D and PWM channels and verified against the RP2040's tech specs for correctness.? GeminiAI's number of A/D channel is correct at 4, but the actual number of PWM channels is 4x2 = 8 (not 4), perhaps because it missed that each channel can drive two independent outputs.
YOUTUBE - RaspberryPI Pico and the RP2040 (6 Videos)
DRONEBOT WORKSHOP - RasPI Pico Oscilloscope (2x Chan Analog, 8x Chan Digital)
YOUTUBE - RasPI Pico Oscilloscope (2x Chan Analog, 8x Chan Digital)
Steep learning curve for your first Pico project, but then it's microcontroller projects galore for your Shack.
Y'all note I haven't ever done any of this, this is just me and GeminiAI.
Python Code for overdriving the voltmeter:
Q1:??Design a function that will overdrive an analog voltmeter to compensate against an excessively long time constant
(GeminiAI?suggests a closed loop system, i.e. sensing the ananlog meter's needle position, an unneeded complication.)
Q2:??Try again without the closed loop. GeminiAI:? Okay,
let's design a function for overdriving an analog voltmeter without
requiring a closed-loop feedback mechanism (i.e., no need for an ADC
to read the meter's position). This simplifies the hardware setup
considerably, as you only need to drive the meter's input.
This approach relies entirely on pre-determined timing and
an initial "kick" voltage, making it an
"open-loop" control. It's less precise than a closed-loop
system but can be very effective for speeding up slow meters if the
overdrive parameters are well-tuned.
Important Considerations (Still Apply!):
Safety First:
Overdriving can still damage the meter. Know the maximum
safe input voltage/current for your specific analog voltmeter.
Analog Output:
You still need to convert the Pico's PWM signal into a relatively
smooth analog voltage. A simple RC low-pass filter
is almost always necessary for this.
Meter Characteristics:
You will still need to experimentally determine the
OVERDRIVE_FACTOR and
OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS for your specific
voltmeter to achieve the desired quick settling without excessive
overshoot or damage.
Microcontroller Specifics: This code is
written for MicroPython on the Raspberry Pi Pico, utilizing
machine.PWM .
Conceptual Python Function (for MicroPython on
Raspberry Pi Pico - Open Loop)
Python
import time
from machine import Pin, PWM
from utime import sleep
# --- Hardware Configuration (Adjust these based on your setup) ---
# Assuming you're driving the voltmeter's input via a PWM output + low-pass filter
VOLTMETER_PWM_PIN = 0 # Example: PWM output pin (e.g., GP0). Choose any available PWM pin.
PWM_FREQ = 10000 # PWM frequency in Hz (e.g., 10kHz). Higher frequencies are generally better for RC filters.
# --- Calibration Constants (You'll need to determine these experimentally) ---
PWM_MAX_DUTY = 65535 # Max duty cycle for 16-bit PWM resolution on Pico
# VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE: The maximum safe input voltage for your *actual* analog voltmeter.
# This should correspond to the maximum voltage your PWM+filter can output safely.
VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE = 5.0 # Example: if your meter's full scale is 5V.
# If your Pico is powered by 3.3V, your max *output* voltage
# after the filter will be close to 3.3V. Adjust this value
# to match your actual maximum output voltage.
# --- Overdrive Parameters (Crucial for function behavior) ---
# OVERDRIVE_FACTOR: How much higher than the target voltage to initially go (e.g., 1.2 for 20% higher).
# Start low (e.g., 1.1 or 1.2) and increase gradually. Too high can damage the meter.
OVERDRIVE_FACTOR = 1.3 # Start with 1.2 and adjust based on your meter's response
# OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS: How long to hold the overdrive voltage (in milliseconds).
# This is the "kick" duration. Too short, not enough effect. Too long, the meter might overshoot.
OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS = 100 # Start with 50-100ms and adjust
# --- Initialize Hardware ---
try:
voltmeter_pwm = PWM(Pin(VOLTMETER_PWM_PIN))
voltmeter_pwm.freq(PWM_FREQ)
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error initializing PWM on pin {VOLTMETER_PWM_PIN}: {e}")
print("Please ensure VOLTMETER_PWM_PIN is a valid PWM-capable pin on the Pico.")
print("This script assumes a Pico environment.")
def map_value(value, in_min, in_max, out_min, out_max):
"""Maps a value from one range to another."""
return (value - in_min) * (out_max - out_min) / (in_max - in_min) + out_min
def voltage_to_pwm_duty(voltage, max_output_voltage=VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE, pwm_max_duty=PWM_MAX_DUTY):
"""Converts a target voltage to a PWM duty cycle."""
if voltage < 0: voltage = 0
if voltage > max_output_voltage: voltage = max_output_voltage
return int(map_value(voltage, 0, max_output_voltage, 0, pwm_max_duty))
def set_voltmeter_display(target_voltage):
"""
Sets the display of an analog voltmeter using an overdrive technique
without requiring feedback.
Args:
target_voltage (float): The final desired voltage to display on the voltmeter.
This must be within the meter's safe operating range.
"""
if not 0 <= target_voltage <= VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE:
print(f"Warning: Target voltage {target_voltage:.2f}V is out of the safe range (0-{VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE:.2f}V). Clamping.")
target_voltage = max(0, min(target_voltage, VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE))
# Calculate overdrive voltage
overdrive_voltage = target_voltage * OVERDRIVE_FACTOR
# Ensure overdrive voltage doesn't exceed safe limits (max physical output)
if overdrive_voltage > VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE:
overdrive_voltage = VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE
print(f"Warning: Overdrive clamped to max safe output voltage {VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE:.2f}V.")
print(f"\nAttempting to set voltmeter to {target_voltage:.2f}V...")
print(f" Initial overdrive voltage: {overdrive_voltage:.2f}V for {OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS}ms")
# 1. Apply Overdrive Voltage (the "kick")
overdrive_duty = voltage_to_pwm_duty(overdrive_voltage)
voltmeter_pwm.duty_u16(overdrive_duty)
# print(f" Applied overdrive PWM duty: {overdrive_duty}")
sleep(OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS / 1000) # Convert ms to seconds
# 2. Reduce to Target Voltage (the final steady state)
target_duty = voltage_to_pwm_duty(target_voltage)
voltmeter_pwm.duty_u16(target_duty)
# print(f" Reduced to target PWM duty: {target_duty}")
print(f"Voltmeter output set to {target_voltage:.2f}V. Observe meter settling.")
# --- Example Usage ---
if __name__ == "__main__":
print("--- Open-Loop Voltmeter Overdrive Demo ---")
print(f"Configured Max Safe Voltmeter Input: {VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE:.2f}V")
print(f"Overdrive Factor: {OVERDRIVE_FACTOR}, Duration: {OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS}ms")
print("Remember to connect a PWM + RC filter to your analog voltmeter.")
print("Press Ctrl+C to stop.")
try:
# Test with a few different target voltages
set_voltmeter_display(1.0)
sleep(2) # Give time for observation
set_voltmeter_display(3.5)
sleep(2)
set_voltmeter_display(0.5)
sleep(2)
set_voltmeter_display(2.5)
sleep(2)
# Try a voltage at the max limit
set_voltmeter_display(VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE)
sleep(2)
# Try a voltage that would be clamped by the function
set_voltmeter_display(VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE + 1.0)
sleep(2)
# Return to zero
set_voltmeter_display(0.0)
sleep(2)
except KeyboardInterrupt:
print("\nDemo interrupted by user.")
finally:
# Clean up PWM
if 'voltmeter_pwm' in locals() and voltmeter_pwm:
voltmeter_pwm.duty_u16(0) # Turn off output
voltmeter_pwm.deinit() # De-initialize PWM to release the pin
print("PWM de-initialized.")
How to Use and Refine (Key for Open-Loop):
Physical Setup (Crucial):
PWM Output:
Connect your chosen VOLTMETER_PWM_PIN
(e.g., GP0) to your RC low-pass filter.
RC Low-Pass Filter:
This is essential! A simple filter consists of:
A resistor
(e.g., 1k Ohm to 10k Ohm) in series with the PWM output.
A capacitor
(e.g., 1uF to 10uF, non-polarized if possible, but electrolytic is
fine if polarity is correct) from the junction of the resistor and
the voltmeter input to ground.
The output of this filter (after
the capacitor) goes to the input of your analog voltmeter.
Tuning the RC filter:
The PWM_FREQ and the RC values
determine how smooth your analog output is. A higher PWM_FREQ
allows for a smaller capacitor while still getting good smoothing.
Experiment with component values to get a clean, stable DC
voltage.
Voltmeter Connection:
Connect the output of your RC filter to the positive input of your
analog voltmeter. The negative terminal of the voltmeter connects
to the Pico's ground.
Calibration (The Most Important Part for Open-Loop):
VOLTMETER_MAX_INPUT_VOLTAGE :
Precisely determine the maximum voltage your physical
analog voltmeter can handle at its full-scale deflection. Also,
ensure your RC filter setup can actually output this voltage (e.g.,
if the Pico is powered by 3.3V, your max filtered output will be
close to 3.3V). Adjust this constant accurately!
Experimentation with
OVERDRIVE_FACTOR and
OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS :
Start with OVERDRIVE_FACTOR
= 1.1 and OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS = 50 .
Run the script and observe how
the meter needle behaves when you set target_voltage
(e.g., set_voltmeter_display(2.5) ).
If the needle is still slow,
gradually increase OVERDRIVE_FACTOR
(e.g., 1.2, 1.3) and/or OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS
(e.g., 75ms, 100ms).
Goal: You want
the needle to briefly overshoot the target
position slightly, and then quickly settle back without bouncing
excessively or taking a long time to stabilize.
Warning: If the
needle slams against the top stop or overshoots violently, your
OVERDRIVE_FACTOR or
OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS is too high.
Reduce them immediately.
Uploading to Pico:
This open-loop approach is simpler to implement but requires more
careful tuning of the OVERDRIVE_FACTOR
and OVERDRIVE_DURATION_MS through
observation and experimentation. -0-
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 6:43?PM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via <w1es= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks, Andrew.?
I am well aware that this issue comes up repeatedly in this and other Drake forums. I was of a mind that this would be a non-repairable problem, as I¡¯ve never seen a solution.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 16:31, Jahman N5ASE via < jah@...> wrote:
The needle damping is electrical by design?due to eddy currents in the armature of the moving coil, thus can not changeable.
73 de Andrew/N5ASE
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 10:46?AM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via
<w1es=
[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, Craig ¡ª
These solutions have been discussed before. The best we have found is that the bouncing meter problem is entirely mechanical. People have tried swamping with capacitance to no avail. It has something to do with mechanical damping.?
Interestingly, it¡¯s only these edge-reading meters that manifest the bouncing problem. In fact, one can see the problem with no power applied at all and shorting the terminals makes no difference.?
I don¡¯t have a scrap meter that bounces or I¡¯d start to get inside it and see if any sort of adjustment could be made.?
The owner of this set has told me that it¡¯s not important
To him but I¡¯d still like to find an answer!
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 09:20, Craig W8CS via
<
craig_severson@...> wrote:
I hesitate to offer this as it's not what you're asking for, but if you can't find a direct solution, you might try experimenting with some caps across the meter leads to slow down the time constant of the meter response.?
?
Start by adding something ridiculously large (mF-wise)? to see if it over-compensates and makes the meter "too slow," and then adjust down from there.?
--
Craig/W8CS
Greenville, SC
|
30uV is reasonable.? I can measure it using a calibrated signal generator.? While S-9. Is arbitrary, the sensitivity? spec of the receiver is not.? It is a gain spec and should be close.? If you need 1000 uV at at the? antenna jack to get it something is very wrong. Again,? while"S-9"? might be arbitrarily defined as 25uV, or 50uV or 100uV,? the spec for this particular receiver? is NOT arbitrary,? it is a specification of gain under specified conditions.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: n4buq <n4buq@...> Date: 5/27/25 5:43 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR3/4 Meters
Speaking of meters, the TR-4 manual states that 30uV should yield S-9.? I know there's a lot of "controversy" around this but I'm wondering if this is a realistic expectation.? I ask because I have to cram 1000 uV into the antenna jack to get S-9 on the meter and I'm pretty sure that's unreasonably too high.
I can get an S-9 with the calibrator signal on 80M and 40M but that starts to fall off as I run through the higher bands to the point that I can hardly see the meter move on any of the 10M bands. Using the signal generator into the antenna jack also falls off on the higher bands but not nearly as much as the calibrator does.
I suspect something's amiss with the receive circuitry but thought I'd see whether this might just be typical (but I doubt it is).
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Stan Gammons via groups.io" <buttercup11421@...> To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 6:23:34 PM Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR3/4 Meters
Has anyone ask Bill Frost if he knows who made the meters? ?Maybe one can determine the type of meter if we know who made it.
73
Stan? KM4HQE
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 1:03 PM, John K5MO via groups.io <johnk5mo@...> wrote:
Exactly, Barry!
The conclusion still seems to be that nobody knows.? I think these topics are cyclical...every couple of years since the dawn of the Drake reflector(s)
John K5MO
Like the one in this topic?
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "John K5MO via
" <johnk5mo=
[email protected]>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 10:34:34 AM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR3/4 Meters
This phenomenon is one of the long term mysteries of the various Drake lists.
Somewhere I have a tray of 100 EMICO (I think ) edgewise meters I bought that are visually the same as the drake units, but I'm not sure I know where they are, and I never tested them to see if electrically they were the same FS current.
I might launch a search mission, but it will be a day long affair to empty that closet.
John
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 9:45?AM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via
<w1es=
[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, Craig ¡ª
These solutions have been discussed before. The best we have found is that the bouncing meter problem is entirely mechanical. People have tried swamping with capacitance to no avail. It has something to do with mechanical damping.?
Interestingly, it¡¯s only these edge-reading meters that manifest the bouncing problem. In fact, one can see the problem with no power applied at all and shorting the terminals makes no difference.?
I don¡¯t have a scrap meter that bounces or I¡¯d start to get inside it and see if any sort of adjustment could be made.?
The owner of this set has told me that it¡¯s not important
To him but I¡¯d still like to find an answer!
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 09:20, Craig W8CS via
<
craig_severson@...> wrote:
I hesitate to offer this as it's not what you're asking for, but if you can't find a direct solution, you might try experimenting with some caps across the meter leads to slow down the time constant of the meter response.?
?
Start by adding something ridiculously large (mF-wise)? to see if it over-compensates and makes the meter "too slow," and then adjust down from there.?
--
Craig/W8CS
Greenville, SC
|
Re: Strain Relief for AC-4
Steve,
?
Knowing that you asked for 16/3 power cord information, I¡¯ll pass along what I found with a suggestion. ?Here is a photo of a late make that has an 18/3 SVT 300V power cord installed, from the factory, best I can tell; it¡¯s about five feet long. ?You are correct that 14 AWG is not needed. ?The 18/3 SVT power cord with PVC insulation, etc. is safely rated at 10 amps; the 120 VAC load calculation for a TR-4C with three final tubes is 3.7 amps based on the loads outlined in the manual. ?Considering a normal design safety margin, Drake is specifying a 5 amp time delay fuse for the AC-4, while there is no need for a time delay fuse, and I tend to use the smallest size fast-response (AGC) fuse that will work to protect the transformer as it should, but I¡¯m digressing a bit. ?If you don¡¯t have your mind completely set on a 16/3 power cord, I suggest you use an 18/3 SVT with much less stiffness. 
?
Now, I looked for the usual Heyco marking on the strain relief in the photo, but none was there. ?The round hole size you see is 0.5 inches. ?I bought a handy install tool from one of the parts supply warehouses online, if you don¡¯t have one; I struggled a bit until finding this a few of years ago. ?I need to get back to work now, or I would look up the Heyco number for you. ?You can go to their website, find the one you want/need, and they will sample a few to you upon request if in stock at their warehouse; you can then check it out and order more when needed.
In summary, an 18/3 SVT power is much more than sufficient for the AC-4 loads; apparently Drake made that determination when they started installing a ground with the power cord.
?
73,
Mike, N4KZO
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Re: Drake SPR-4 50 Khz IF and 50 Khz Filter alignment
As I recently quipped to someone else, you need to follow the electrons. You should see the voltage at the collector on Q25 (power supply board) drop when you apply a signal. If not, Q25 is not functioning or there is a problem with C184. Check solder connections. C171 and C178 may be suspect as well. If Q25 is working as expected follow the voltage through the AVC circuit to see where you lose it. On Tue, 27 May 2025 10:33:01 -0700 "enriqueeeeee2001 via groups.io" <enriqueeeeee2001@...> wrote: Hello Jim, Quite sure that the alignment tool is not just spinning or there is a cracle ferrite core broken, this transformer has a clever desing and can be tweaket from the bottom too.
This evening have tried with the L11 coil, no movement at all in the voltmeter, same as before. I can heard clearly the 50,8 Khz tone and by ear I have adjust it at maximum peak. I have not gone further with the other coils since this has not sense at all.
Of course not movement in the S-meter too. -- 73 -Jim NU0C
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Not familiar with the rig but is the original fuse a slow blow or a fast blow and if slow are you using a slow blow ?
Ralph ku4pt
On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 08:15:00 PM EDT, Mark N2DMI via groups.io <markkiziuk1@...> wrote:
Yeah I thought the same thing FILAMENT fuse. But I wasn't sure on how to approach finding the culprit.
But yeah, pull all the tubes and bulbs out and ohm out them all out! Or it could be the stupid LSB or USB socket that is somehow shorting?
Gotta be something simple?
Mark
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Speaking of meters, the TR-4 manual states that 30uV should yield S-9.? I know there's a lot of "controversy" around this but I'm wondering if this is a realistic expectation.? I ask because I have to cram 1000 uV into the antenna jack to get S-9 on the meter and I'm pretty sure that's unreasonably too high.
I can get an S-9 with the calibrator signal on 80M and 40M but that starts to fall off as I run through the higher bands to the point that I can hardly see the meter move on any of the 10M bands. Using the signal generator into the antenna jack also falls off on the higher bands but not nearly as much as the calibrator does.
I suspect something's amiss with the receive circuitry but thought I'd see whether this might just be typical (but I doubt it is).
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
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From: "Stan Gammons via groups.io" <buttercup11421@...> To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 6:23:34 PM Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR3/4 Meters
Has anyone ask Bill Frost if he knows who made the meters? ?Maybe one can determine the type of meter if we know who made it.
73
Stan? KM4HQE
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 1:03 PM, John K5MO via groups.io <johnk5mo@...> wrote:
Exactly, Barry!
The conclusion still seems to be that nobody knows.? I think these topics are cyclical...every couple of years since the dawn of the Drake reflector(s)
John K5MO
Like the one in this topic?
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "John K5MO via
" <johnk5mo=
[email protected]>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 10:34:34 AM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR3/4 Meters
This phenomenon is one of the long term mysteries of the various Drake lists.
Somewhere I have a tray of 100 EMICO (I think ) edgewise meters I bought that are visually the same as the drake units, but I'm not sure I know where they are, and I never tested them to see if electrically they were the same FS current.
I might launch a search mission, but it will be a day long affair to empty that closet.
John
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 9:45?AM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via
<w1es=
[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, Craig ¡ª
These solutions have been discussed before. The best we have found is that the bouncing meter problem is entirely mechanical. People have tried swamping with capacitance to no avail. It has something to do with mechanical damping.?
Interestingly, it¡¯s only these edge-reading meters that manifest the bouncing problem. In fact, one can see the problem with no power applied at all and shorting the terminals makes no difference.?
I don¡¯t have a scrap meter that bounces or I¡¯d start to get inside it and see if any sort of adjustment could be made.?
The owner of this set has told me that it¡¯s not important
To him but I¡¯d still like to find an answer!
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 09:20, Craig W8CS via
<
craig_severson@...> wrote:
I hesitate to offer this as it's not what you're asking for, but if you can't find a direct solution, you might try experimenting with some caps across the meter leads to slow down the time constant of the meter response.?
?
Start by adding something ridiculously large (mF-wise)? to see if it over-compensates and makes the meter "too slow," and then adjust down from there.?
--
Craig/W8CS
Greenville, SC
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Re: Panel Spacer for 2-B and 4-Line
I'm not certain, but I think I used some plastic (neoprene?) washers from one of the big-box stores when I needed one for my 2-B.
Barry - N4BUQ
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From: "Michael Smith via groups.io" <tw8kcabpilot@...> To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 6:38:29 PM Subject: [DRAKE-RADIO] Panel Spacer for 2-B and 4-Line
Hey Everyone,
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I¡¯m restoring a 2-B and would like to get an update on panel spacer availability. ?Some time ago, ?2bradioparts.com stocked spacers that he had labeled as being for 4-Line radios; I compared one these to the a spacer installed that is in good shape, and it is the same size, while the new one looks  to be plastic instead of fiber, which is fine. ?Does anyone know a source for these spacers nowadays? ?The new uncompressed thickness is 2.6 mm. ?See photo.
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Thank you,
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Michael Smith, N4KZO
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Yeah I thought the same thing FILAMENT fuse. But I wasn't sure on how to approach finding the culprit.
But yeah, pull all the tubes and bulbs out and ohm out them all out! Or it could be the stupid LSB or USB socket that is somehow shorting?
Gotta be something simple?
Mark
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Ken I looked for a dim bulb tester on youtube and I don't see how that would help me?
It looks like you put the AC line cord into one end and a light bulb tells you if you have a short or not.
I believe the filament fuse circuit is on the 12.6VAC circuit.
I need something that will tell me what is causing the fuse to blow. Or guidance on how to troubleshoot.
The rig was working beautifully except for one of the USB or LSB not making good contact. When I moved the bulb?
around to make better contact is when the fuse first blew. I don't see either of the bulb sockets touching
anything so I can't figure out why the filament keeps popping?
Mark
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