Re: DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
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Show quoted text
It's on Sunday at 3:00 PM CST.? 7238 Khz +- depending on QRM.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 20:22, Ralph AD9FM via groups.io wrote:
Can someone please share the information on the Drake user's net? thanks
Ralph
AD9FM
Conditions were not good.? I couldn't hear Ron, WB4HFN. He's about 70 miles east of me. Evan is usually really strong here but he was only S5.? Not sure how well I was making it into Dayton with the B line twins, T-4XB, R-4B and the L-4B.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 16:04, William W9MXQ via groups.io wrote:
Today's Drake User's Net had the following participant information:
?
Total Check-in Stations: 22
Band Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great team of Net Control Stations!!
?
Radios:
?
Twins (All Versions): 5
TR-3: 1
TR4: (All Versions): ?2
TR5: 2
TR7: 4
?
Next week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net Control.
?
73,
?
Bill Shadid, Net Control
Drake Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
|
Re: DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
It's on Sunday at 3:00 PM CST.? 7238 Khz +- depending on QRM.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 20:22, Ralph AD9FM via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Can someone please share the information on the Drake user's
net? thanks
Ralph
AD9FM
Conditions were not good.? I couldn't hear Ron, WB4HFN. He's
about 70 miles east of me. Evan is usually really strong here
but he was only S5.? Not sure how well I was making it into
Dayton with the B line twins, T-4XB, R-4B and the L-4B.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 16:04, William W9MXQ
via groups.io wrote:
Today's
Drake User's Net had the following participant
information:
?
Total
Check-in Stations: 22
Band
Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special
thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great
team of Net Control Stations!!
?
Radios:
?
Twins
(All Versions): 5
TR-3:
1
TR4:
(All Versions): ?2
TR5:
2
TR7:
4
?
Next
week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net
Control.
?
73,
?
Bill
Shadid, Net Control
Drake
Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
|
Re: DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
7238 +/- QRM, 4 PM Sunday, EST. ?Welcome!
Can someone please share the information on the Drake user's net? thanks
Ralph
AD9FM
Conditions were not good.? I couldn't hear Ron, WB4HFN. He's about 70 miles east of me. Evan is usually really strong here but he was only S5.? Not sure how well I was making it into Dayton with the B line twins, T-4XB, R-4B and the L-4B.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 16:04, William W9MXQ via groups.io wrote:
Today's Drake User's Net had the following participant information:
?
Total Check-in Stations: 22
Band Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great team of Net Control Stations!!
?
Radios:
?
Twins (All Versions): 5
TR-3: 1
TR4: (All Versions): ?2
TR5: 2
TR7: 4
?
Next week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net Control.
?
73,
?
Bill Shadid, Net Control
Drake Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
|
Re: DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
Can someone please share the information on the Drake user's net? thanks
Ralph
AD9FM
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Conditions were not good.? I couldn't hear Ron, WB4HFN. He's about 70 miles east of me. Evan is usually really strong here but he was only S5.? Not sure how well I was making it into Dayton with the B line twins, T-4XB, R-4B and the L-4B.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 16:04, William W9MXQ via groups.io wrote:
Today's Drake User's Net had the following participant information:
?
Total Check-in Stations: 22
Band Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great team of Net Control Stations!!
?
Radios:
?
Twins (All Versions): 5
TR-3: 1
TR4: (All Versions): ?2
TR5: 2
TR7: 4
?
Next week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net Control.
?
73,
?
Bill Shadid, Net Control
Drake Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
|
Barry, Something else to consider - Every TR-n that I've worked on has had the plate current meter resistors aged high.? The result is that plate current measurement is not correct which of course means that idle current is not set correctly.? Seems to me that idle current is the basic foundation for everything and if its not right than there may be some odd things happen.? There are two resistors.? One is a standard value and the other is determined by the Drake tech during final alignment before the radio was shipped.
Also, I don't recall if you mentioned checking it or not but the 68ohm and 15ohm resistors under the amp tubes are also prone to aging high.? I always check and usually replace those resistors and then measure the resistors for the meter and replace if they have drifted.? You can of course verify your idle current by measuring resistance and voltage drop across the three resistors under the amp tubes, calculating the current draw, and adding up the current draw for all three.
73, Another Barry KJ5GQM
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 05:23:44 PM CDT, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I tested all three tubes for gas and none were bad in that respect.? Interestingly, I decided to perform the "LIFE TEST" where the filament voltage is reduced (I think it goes down to about 5.8V or maybe 5.9V for a 6.3V filament).? While transconductance drops by an acceptable amount when that button is pressed, the fall in value looked a lot like what I see for plate current when the key is down.
With all the tubes back in place, I decided to monitor the filament voltage.? I've been running the rig between 110VAC and 115VAC and that was giving me a low-to-start-with filament voltage of just under 6VAC.? With that, key-down would cause that voltage to drop to around 5.7VAC.? I then bumped the autotransformer up to closer to 120VAC which gave me very close to 6.3VAC and, oddly enough, on key-down, that voltage would drop just a small amount - perhaps 0.1VAC to 0.2VAC.? That seems a bit odd that the sag was smaller but, perhaps, the transformer is more efficient at the input voltage closer to 120VAC but that's just a guess.
Also, with the input voltage closer to 120VAC, I think I'm seeing a good increase in plate current at resonance.? I suppose that's expected since the plate voltage also climbs with that input voltage.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Barry" <n4buq@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 1:03:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Richard, Steve, Thank you both for the responses.? I wasn't sure if "soft" was just a generic for "weak" and, in general, maybe that's true. My three tubes do not exhibit some of the more obvious signs of excess gas (e.g. white coating or a "getter-like" spot but that's not a very good indicator of small gas amounts.? I'm going to pull them again and run the gas test as I didn't do that when I was testing them.? Maybe that will be revealing. Thanks again, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 12:37:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Yep, that sounds like a textbook example. ?Power falls off first on the higherbands as the gain (transconductance) decreases. ?The electrons are generated at the heated cathode and eventually, the cathode material gets depleted.
I¡¯m starting to think that my TR-4Cw RIT is having similar issues, though strangely, the output only sags when on the antenna and not on the dummy load. ?The tubes in it are well-used.
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sat, May 17, 2025 at 10:46 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: Can someone please tell me what is meant by the term "soft finals"? I'm still having problems getting proper output from my TR-4 and, for all I know, that might be the problem. I've tested them for transconductance and all three are very close to the same value and, furthermore, that value is quite a bit above the minimum for a good tube.
Aside from low output (i.e. about 300 mA plate current maximum into a dummy load), I notice that if I hold down the key for a few seconds the plate current tends to drop just slightly and I think if I were to continue holding the key down, the current would continue to slowly decrease.
I measured the voltage across each cathode resistor and I notice the same phenomenon: the voltage climbs to about 1.6 VDC and then begins to drop a bit. Like the transconductance values, each cathode resistor is "matched" in value and behavior to the other two so I suppose that's one good thing.
Am I seeing the result of weak/soft tubes or is something else going on that would cause this?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
Speaking of Heathkit...
?
I was fairly addicted to building Heathkit gear after the first kit when I was 10.? I think I spent about all the money I earned fixing people's TVs and radios as a teenager on Heathkit test gear.? I even built a GR-2000 TV for a friend's father...it was ground breaking for its time and what a kit, it took weeks of after-school work to get it done! ?
I still have 19 pieces of Heathkit test equipment...all of it functional as far as I remember.? They have mostly been retired over the last forty years as I was able to afford better equipment.? About half I built, the rest I bought from others.? I know this is a bit OT, but would love to find a home for them, so if anyone is interested here is what I have to offer:
?
IM-16 SS VOM, IM-18 VTVM, IM-25 SS VOM
IB-101 Counter, IB-102 Scaler, IR-18 Chart Recorder
IG-18 Sine, Square Gen, IG-37 FM Stereo Gen, IG-57 TV Sweep Gen
IO-105 Dual Trace Scope, ID-101 Elect. Switch
IB-28 LCR Bridge, IT-17 Tube Checker, IT-28 Cap Checker
IT-3121 Semi Curve Tracer, IM-48 IMD Analyzer, IM-58 THD Analyzer
IP-17 HV Supply, IP-27 LV Supply
?
I sold my Heatkit HW ham gear when I bought the Drake Twins in 1977, although I still have the HW-7.
?
No offer ignored.
Cheers & 73,
Howie / WA4PSC
Drake 4-Line
?
?
?
|
Out mains typically runs 126VAC and that puts the HV well over 700VDC (I don't recall the exact value at the moment).? 6JB6s are rated at 770VDC plate voltage max so I think that's probably okay.
I bought a heavy-duty transformer with two 12VAC windings that, when in parallel, can give 8A that I want to use as a bucker.? In retrospect, that may not work as well as I'd hoped and I may need to look for a 6VAC version.? If the the rig is intended to run with the AC-4 at 120VAC, then perhaps that extra 6V may not matter too much and I can just leave the bucker out of the setup.? I was just looking at prolonging the life of the tubes as much as practical.
Thanks for the info.? I was thinking that 115 was probably the standard when these rigs were built but apparently that's not the case.
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 5:35:37 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
There is a common misconception that our Drake rigs were designed for 115VAC or even 110VAC.? They were designed for 120VAC nominal -- which, through all my years of testing and helping to design raw and linear power supplies, were given a tolerance of +/-5% (so, 114 - 126 VAC.? Of course many of those supplies would do just fine outside that tolerance band.? It also explains why you get 6.3VAC at the filaments at 120VAC.
When I started working as a tech in 1976, 120VAC had already been the standard.? Interestingly, the buss bars at out plant were sometimes labelled "120V/60CPS", so the changeover to 120 preceded the changeover from CPS to Hz.
We had the whole gamut in that Digital Equipment plant: 120/240 single-phase and 208/440 three-phase (IIRC).? Our equipment runs fine at 120VAC.? Yes, you can eke a little more tube life running the filaments slightly lower but our rigs were designed for 120 (it's in the manuals).
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, May 18th, 2025 at 6:23 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I tested all three tubes for gas and none were bad in that respect.? Interestingly, I decided to perform the "LIFE TEST" where the filament voltage is reduced (I think it goes down to about 5.8V or maybe 5.9V for a 6.3V filament).? While transconductance drops by an acceptable amount when that button is pressed, the fall in value looked a lot like what I see for plate current when the key is down. With all the tubes back in place, I decided to monitor the filament voltage.? I've been running the rig between 110VAC and 115VAC and that was giving me a low-to-start-with filament voltage of just under 6VAC.? With that, key-down would cause that voltage to drop to around 5.7VAC.? I then bumped the autotransformer up to closer to 120VAC which gave me very close to 6.3VAC and, oddly enough, on key-down, that voltage would drop just a small amount - perhaps 0.1VAC to 0.2VAC.? That seems a bit odd that the sag was smaller but, perhaps, the transformer is more efficient at the input voltage closer to 120VAC but that's just a guess. Also, with the input voltage closer to 120VAC, I think I'm seeing a good increase in plate current at resonance.? I suppose that's expected since the plate voltage also climbs with that input voltage. Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Barry" <n4buq@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 1:03:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Richard, Steve, Thank you both for the responses.? I wasn't sure if "soft" was just a generic for "weak" and, in general, maybe that's true. My three tubes do not exhibit some of the more obvious signs of excess gas (e.g. white coating or a "getter-like" spot but that's not a very good indicator of small gas amounts.? I'm going to pull them again and run the gas test as I didn't do that when I was testing them.? Maybe that will be revealing. Thanks again, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 12:37:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Yep, that sounds like a textbook example. ?Power falls off first on the higherbands as the gain (transconductance) decreases. ?The electrons are generated at the heated cathode and eventually, the cathode material gets depleted.
I¡¯m starting to think that my TR-4Cw RIT is having similar issues, though strangely, the output only sags when on the antenna and not on the dummy load. ?The tubes in it are well-used.
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sat, May 17, 2025 at 10:46 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: Can someone please tell me what is meant by the term "soft finals"? I'm still having problems getting proper output from my TR-4 and, for all I know, that might be the problem. I've tested them for transconductance and all three are very close to the same value and, furthermore, that value is quite a bit above the minimum for a good tube.
Aside from low output (i.e. about 300 mA plate current maximum into a dummy load), I notice that if I hold down the key for a few seconds the plate current tends to drop just slightly and I think if I were to continue holding the key down, the current would continue to slowly decrease.
I measured the voltage across each cathode resistor and I notice the same phenomenon: the voltage climbs to about 1.6 VDC and then begins to drop a bit. Like the transconductance values, each cathode resistor is "matched" in value and behavior to the other two so I suppose that's one good thing.
Am I seeing the result of weak/soft tubes or is something else going on that would cause this?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Hanvention tradition...broken
YES NO Rain, unbelievable weather for Hamvention!? But it was also such a great thing to see you there Evan.? Was so glad you were able to make it out there Evan. Rex WB8TDG
Ahhh, but you bonded with the puppies!!!!!!!
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 10:00:50 AM EDT, Dino Papas via <kl0s= [email protected]> wrote:
So envious we couldn't make it this year!
?
See you in 2026!
?
73 - Dino KL?S
|
I found a couple of references that agree that the standard US line voltage went to 120 in 1967.
The US started at 110/220 in the late 1800s because Edison¡¯s light bulbs were designed for 110 ¡ª AC or DC.
Europe started well after the US, in Germany, and started with 220V, 50 Hz. ?The rest of Europe and colonies followed.?
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 6:35 PM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io < w1es@...> wrote:
There is a common misconception that our Drake rigs were designed for 115VAC or even 110VAC.? They were designed for 120VAC nominal -- which, through all my years of testing and helping to design raw and linear power supplies, were given a tolerance of +/-5% (so, 114 - 126 VAC.? Of course many of those supplies would do just fine outside that tolerance band.? It also explains why you get 6.3VAC at the filaments at 120VAC.
When I started working as a tech in 1976, 120VAC had already been the standard.? Interestingly, the buss bars at out plant were sometimes labelled "120V/60CPS", so the changeover to 120 preceded the changeover from CPS to Hz.
We had the whole gamut in that Digital Equipment plant: 120/240 single-phase and 208/440 three-phase (IIRC).? Our equipment runs fine at 120VAC.? Yes, you can eke a little more tube life running the filaments slightly lower but our rigs were designed for 120 (it's in the manuals).
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with
secure email.
On Sunday, May 18th, 2025 at 6:23 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I tested all three tubes for gas and none were bad in that respect.? Interestingly, I decided to perform the "LIFE TEST" where the filament voltage is reduced (I think it goes down to about 5.8V or maybe 5.9V for a 6.3V filament).? While transconductance drops by an acceptable amount when that button is pressed, the fall in value looked a lot like what I see for plate current when the key is down.
With all the tubes back in place, I decided to monitor the filament voltage.? I've been running the rig between 110VAC and 115VAC and that was giving me a low-to-start-with filament voltage of just under 6VAC.? With that, key-down would cause that voltage to drop to around 5.7VAC.? I then bumped the autotransformer up to closer to 120VAC which gave me very close to 6.3VAC and, oddly enough, on key-down, that voltage would drop just a small amount - perhaps 0.1VAC to 0.2VAC.? That seems a bit odd that the sag was smaller but, perhaps, the transformer is more efficient at the input voltage closer to 120VAC but that's just a guess.
Also, with the input voltage closer to 120VAC, I think I'm seeing a good increase in plate current at resonance.? I suppose that's expected since the plate voltage also climbs with that input voltage.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Barry" <n4buq@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 1:03:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Richard, Steve,
Thank you both for the responses.? I wasn't sure if "soft" was just a generic for "weak" and, in general, maybe that's true.
My three tubes do not exhibit some of the more obvious signs of excess gas (e.g. white coating or a "getter-like" spot but that's not a very good indicator of small gas amounts.? I'm going to pull them again and run the gas test as I didn't do that when I was testing them.? Maybe that will be revealing.
Thanks again,
Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 12:37:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Yep, that sounds like a textbook example. ?Power falls off first on the higherbands as the gain (transconductance) decreases. ?The electrons are generated at the heated cathode and eventually, the cathode material gets depleted.
I¡¯m starting to think that my TR-4Cw RIT is having similar issues, though strangely, the output only sags when on the antenna and not on the dummy load. ?The tubes in it are well-used.
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sat, May 17, 2025 at 10:46 PM, n4buq <
n4buq@...> wrote:
Can someone please tell me what is meant by the term "soft finals"? I'm still having problems getting proper output from my TR-4 and, for all I know, that might be the problem. I've tested them for transconductance and all three are very close to the same value and, furthermore, that value is quite a bit above the minimum for a good tube.
Aside from low output (i.e. about 300 mA plate current maximum into a dummy load), I notice that if I hold down the key for a few seconds the plate current tends to drop just slightly and I think if I were to continue holding the key down, the current would continue to slowly decrease.
I measured the voltage across each cathode resistor and I notice the same phenomenon: the voltage climbs to about 1.6 VDC and then begins to drop a bit. Like the transconductance values, each cathode resistor is "matched" in value and behavior to the other two so I suppose that's one good thing.
Am I seeing the result of weak/soft tubes or is something else going on that would cause this?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
Conditions were not good.? I couldn't hear Ron, WB4HFN. He's about
70 miles east of me. Evan is usually really strong here but he was
only S5.? Not sure how well I was making it into Dayton with the B
line twins, T-4XB, R-4B and the L-4B.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
On 5/18/25 16:04, William W9MXQ via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Today's
Drake User's Net had the following participant information:
?
Total
Check-in Stations: 22
Band
Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special
thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great team
of Net Control Stations!!
?
Radios:
?
Twins
(All Versions): 5
TR-3:
1
TR4:
(All Versions): ?2
TR5:
2
TR7:
4
?
Next
week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net
Control.
?
73,
?
Bill
Shadid, Net Control
Drake
Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
|
There is a common misconception that our Drake rigs were designed for 115VAC or even 110VAC.? They were designed for 120VAC nominal -- which, through all my years of testing and helping to design raw and linear power supplies, were given a tolerance of +/-5% (so, 114 - 126 VAC.? Of course many of those supplies would do just fine outside that tolerance band.? It also explains why you get 6.3VAC at the filaments at 120VAC.
When I started working as a tech in 1976, 120VAC had already been the standard.? Interestingly, the buss bars at out plant were sometimes labelled "120V/60CPS", so the changeover to 120 preceded the changeover from CPS to Hz.
We had the whole gamut in that Digital Equipment plant: 120/240 single-phase and 208/440 three-phase (IIRC).? Our equipment runs fine at 120VAC.? Yes, you can eke a little more tube life running the filaments slightly lower but our rigs were designed for 120 (it's in the manuals).
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, May 18th, 2025 at 6:23 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I tested all three tubes for gas and none were bad in that respect.? Interestingly, I decided to perform the "LIFE TEST" where the filament voltage is reduced (I think it goes down to about 5.8V or maybe 5.9V for a 6.3V filament).? While transconductance drops by an acceptable amount when that button is pressed, the fall in value looked a lot like what I see for plate current when the key is down.
With all the tubes back in place, I decided to monitor the filament voltage.? I've been running the rig between 110VAC and 115VAC and that was giving me a low-to-start-with filament voltage of just under 6VAC.? With that, key-down would cause that voltage to drop to around 5.7VAC.? I then bumped the autotransformer up to closer to 120VAC which gave me very close to 6.3VAC and, oddly enough, on key-down, that voltage would drop just a small amount - perhaps 0.1VAC to 0.2VAC.? That seems a bit odd that the sag was smaller but, perhaps, the transformer is more efficient at the input voltage closer to 120VAC but that's just a guess.
Also, with the input voltage closer to 120VAC, I think I'm seeing a good increase in plate current at resonance.? I suppose that's expected since the plate voltage also climbs with that input voltage.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Barry" <n4buq@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 1:03:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Richard, Steve, Thank you both for the responses.? I wasn't sure if "soft" was just a generic for "weak" and, in general, maybe that's true. My three tubes do not exhibit some of the more obvious signs of excess gas (e.g. white coating or a "getter-like" spot but that's not a very good indicator of small gas amounts.? I'm going to pull them again and run the gas test as I didn't do that when I was testing them.? Maybe that will be revealing. Thanks again, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 12:37:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Yep, that sounds like a textbook example. ?Power falls off first on the higherbands as the gain (transconductance) decreases. ?The electrons are generated at the heated cathode and eventually, the cathode material gets depleted.
I¡¯m starting to think that my TR-4Cw RIT is having similar issues, though strangely, the output only sags when on the antenna and not on the dummy load. ?The tubes in it are well-used.
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sat, May 17, 2025 at 10:46 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: Can someone please tell me what is meant by the term "soft finals"? I'm still having problems getting proper output from my TR-4 and, for all I know, that might be the problem. I've tested them for transconductance and all three are very close to the same value and, furthermore, that value is quite a bit above the minimum for a good tube.
Aside from low output (i.e. about 300 mA plate current maximum into a dummy load), I notice that if I hold down the key for a few seconds the plate current tends to drop just slightly and I think if I were to continue holding the key down, the current would continue to slowly decrease.
I measured the voltage across each cathode resistor and I notice the same phenomenon: the voltage climbs to about 1.6 VDC and then begins to drop a bit. Like the transconductance values, each cathode resistor is "matched" in value and behavior to the other two so I suppose that's one good thing.
Am I seeing the result of weak/soft tubes or is something else going on that would cause this?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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I tested all three tubes for gas and none were bad in that respect.? Interestingly, I decided to perform the "LIFE TEST" where the filament voltage is reduced (I think it goes down to about 5.8V or maybe 5.9V for a 6.3V filament).? While transconductance drops by an acceptable amount when that button is pressed, the fall in value looked a lot like what I see for plate current when the key is down.
With all the tubes back in place, I decided to monitor the filament voltage.? I've been running the rig between 110VAC and 115VAC and that was giving me a low-to-start-with filament voltage of just under 6VAC.? With that, key-down would cause that voltage to drop to around 5.7VAC.? I then bumped the autotransformer up to closer to 120VAC which gave me very close to 6.3VAC and, oddly enough, on key-down, that voltage would drop just a small amount - perhaps 0.1VAC to 0.2VAC.? That seems a bit odd that the sag was smaller but, perhaps, the transformer is more efficient at the input voltage closer to 120VAC but that's just a guess.
Also, with the input voltage closer to 120VAC, I think I'm seeing a good increase in plate current at resonance.? I suppose that's expected since the plate voltage also climbs with that input voltage.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Barry" <n4buq@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 1:03:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Richard, Steve, Thank you both for the responses.? I wasn't sure if "soft" was just a generic for "weak" and, in general, maybe that's true. My three tubes do not exhibit some of the more obvious signs of excess gas (e.g. white coating or a "getter-like" spot but that's not a very good indicator of small gas amounts.? I'm going to pull them again and run the gas test as I didn't do that when I was testing them.? Maybe that will be revealing. Thanks again, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io" <w1es@...>
To: "DRAKE-RADIO" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 12:37:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] TR-4 - Soft Finals?
Yep, that sounds like a textbook example. ?Power falls off first on the higherbands as the gain (transconductance) decreases. ?The electrons are generated at the heated cathode and eventually, the cathode material gets depleted.
I¡¯m starting to think that my TR-4Cw RIT is having similar issues, though strangely, the output only sags when on the antenna and not on the dummy load. ?The tubes in it are well-used.
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sat, May 17, 2025 at 10:46 PM, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: Can someone please tell me what is meant by the term "soft finals"? I'm still having problems getting proper output from my TR-4 and, for all I know, that might be the problem. I've tested them for transconductance and all three are very close to the same value and, furthermore, that value is quite a bit above the minimum for a good tube.
Aside from low output (i.e. about 300 mA plate current maximum into a dummy load), I notice that if I hold down the key for a few seconds the plate current tends to drop just slightly and I think if I were to continue holding the key down, the current would continue to slowly decrease.
I measured the voltage across each cathode resistor and I notice the same phenomenon: the voltage climbs to about 1.6 VDC and then begins to drop a bit. Like the transconductance values, each cathode resistor is "matched" in value and behavior to the other two so I suppose that's one good thing.
Am I seeing the result of weak/soft tubes or is something else going on that would cause this?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
The library network is free¡my Mass. lib consortium is 38 public/municipal/memorial libraries¡. ? STAY SAFE AND STAY WELL! ? Respectfully,
Thomas K. Lanieri, NU2W NJ DOH Licensed EMT;? PHTLS, AMLS, PHPEC Millenium EMS ARC N.E. BioMedical Services ARC N.E. Disaster Cycle Services  ? 
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave W7GZ via groups.io Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 5:29 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of...... ? Joe, there are 6 of them listed on Bookfinder at the moment. It looks like you will have to pay a C-note to get a copy though. Dave
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Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
Joe, there are 6 of them listed on Bookfinder at the moment. It looks like you will have to pay a C-note to get a copy though. Dave
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Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
If you are part of a big librarian consortium, have them do a search for you inside and outside their domain. I was looking for a ¡°non¡± existent history (way back) book on Ham radio for years¡.when I moved 4 miles south of NH I got into reading a lot and became friends with a few old school librarians who helped me¡the large book written when books filled columns, not paragraphs, was in Louisiana¡.40 years and 3 weeks to get that book in my hands¡ ? GOOD LUCK all! ? ? STAY SAFE AND STAY WELL! ? Respectfully,
Thomas K. Lanieri, NU2W NJ DOH Licensed EMT;? PHTLS, AMLS, PHPEC Millenium EMS ARC N.E. BioMedical Services ARC N.E. Disaster Cycle Services  ? 
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe - W7RKN via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2025 5:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO]"I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......? Any idea where to find this book?? Amazon shows it as out of publication and not available. ? Joe - W7RKN ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Terry WB0VQP via groups.io
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO]"I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of...... ? Anyone interested in the "Life and Times of Heathkit" should pick up a book titled "Heath Nostalgia."? It's good reading and details the company from it's meager start making airplane kits.?
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Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
Any idea where to find this book?? Amazon shows it as out of publication and not available. ? Joe - W7RKN ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Terry WB0VQP via groups.io
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO]"I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of...... ? Anyone interested in the "Life and Times of Heathkit" should pick up a book titled "Heath Nostalgia."? It's good reading and details the company from it's meager start making airplane kits.?
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Re: DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
Yeah, we went visiting today. I listened to 40 yesterday for the Kenwood Hybrid net and conditions were execrable. Didnt think they¡¯d recover from that today :-)
Steve Wedge, W1ES
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 17:04, William W9MXQ via groups.io < w9mxq@...> wrote:
Today's Drake User's Net had the following participant information:
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Total Check-in Stations: 22
Band Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great team of Net Control Stations!!
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Radios:
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Twins (All Versions): 5
TR-3: 1
TR4: (All Versions): ?2
TR5: 2
TR7: 4
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Next week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net Control.
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73,
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Bill Shadid, Net Control
Drake Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
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DRADE USERS NET UPDATE - 18 May 2025
Today's Drake User's Net had the following participant information:
?
Total Check-in Stations: 22
Band Conditions: As challenging as I can remember - A special thanks for understanding Check-In Stations and a great team of Net Control Stations!!
?
Radios:
?
Twins (All Versions): 5
TR-3: 1
TR4: (All Versions): ?2
TR5: 2
TR7: 4
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Next week ¨C 25 April 2025 ¨C will have Mark, WB0IQK, as Net Control.
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73,
?
Bill Shadid, Net Control
Drake Users Group for 18 May 2025
W9MXQ@...?
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Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
Anyone interested in the "Life and Times of Heathkit" should pick up a book titled "Heath Nostalgia."? It's good reading and details the company from it's meager start making airplane kits.?
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Re: "I Never Should Have Gotten Rid Of......
I have all of my Heathkits that I ever built and I have a lot of them!? My first was a CB transceiver, "Benton Harbor Lunch Box", probably called CB-1, A??handheld CB transceiver, battery charger/eliminator, radio control system for model airplanes on the 6meter?amateur radio band, etc, etc.? The one item I use most frequently is the SB-220 linear amplifier.? I have a stack of Heathkit sale flyers that were mailed to me too.? All great stuff!? 73, Karl, KO8S
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 11:16?AM Terry WB0VQP via <TLNixon357= [email protected]> wrote: I built quite a few pieces of Heathkit stuff including a RF/AF generator, and VHF Police Scanner. I still have a tube tester, and early signal tracer that I purchased at a flea market. Both still work as they should. The Signal Tracer didn't work well when I got it. it seemed to be clipping?the input signal.? So one snowy night, I pulled out enough caps to totally recap it.? I would put in one cap, then test it. Finally I got down to the last cap, the one?in series with the input jack. Turns out whoever built it wired that cap to ground instead of in series.? It's worked flawlessly ever since. I was in Civil Air Patrol for years and repaired and tweaked a lot of the HW-18 (4.5 MHz xtal-controlled) transceivers? they used.? I also modified a HW-12 into a HW-18 by removing the VFO and inserting a small International Crystal oscillator board.?
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NU2W