Quartslab was a subcontractor for Klove that manufactured crystals on their behalf.? Quartslab suspended orders about two years ago.? ? Klove is still operating and manufacturing crystals in HC-6/U holders.? Last year, I purchased a pair of BFO crystals for a Hallicrafters Cyclone III.? Klove’s contact information appears below.? Be prepared for price shock. ? As I recall, neither Steve Johnston at AF4K nor Bomar could supply typical BFO frequency crystals in a HC-6/U case.? I made the purchase from Klove primarily because I didn’t want to diddle with any other option. ? Paul, W9AC ? ---------------------------------------------- Guy Peeters 
?
Grote Steenweg 36 ?|??2260 Westerlo ?|??Belgium???|??Tel +31 229 230 044 ?|??Fax +32 14 54 94 43 ? ?
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On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 7:56?PM Richard Knoppow < 1oldlens1@...> wrote: ? ? It seems to me that the Tube Collector's group may have information
on how to distinguish the actual manufacturer, done by means of
construction, as you point out, and sometimes by markings. Some of the
markings may be subtle. I am not sure if this stuff is on their web site
or is available to non-members.
On 3/24/2024 1:56 PM, Clyde K2UE wrote:
> I had the good fortune to spend a good part of my working years as an RF
> Engineer at RFCOM and Scientific Radio Systems, and designed and
> supported commercial SSB gear with both "transmitting tubes" (6146,
> 8122, 3-400Z, 3-100Z, etc) and sweep tubes.? One of the things you have
> to do in a commercial manufacturing environment is evaluate and approve
> vendor changes, including tubes.? One of the first things you learn is
> that the name stenciled on the tube is not always the actual
> manufacturer, and there were rude surprises when major manufacturers
> decided not to run a give type (permanent or temporary) and instead
> bought unmarked tubes from a competitor and mark them as theirs.? We
> learned to discern details of internal and external construction as a
> clue to this sort of substitution.
>
> So since we can't really count on the brand name, how would a commercial
> PA designer approach this:
> 1.? First match tubes by internal construction details that give away
> the actual factory:? mica shapes, plate contours, grid leads and welding.
> 2.? Among the most similar I would want to first match by
> transconductance using a mutual conductance tester.? If the anode
> current change for a given grid change matches they will share the load
> on a large signal basis.
> 3.? Last I would match by idle current, so they start at similar
> currents and hence will track each other for best load sharing and
> linearity.
>
> My opinion, but based on actual experience with many thousands of tubes,
> YMMV.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Clyde Washburn, K2UE
> ClydeWashburn1@... <mailto:ClydeWashburn1@...>
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998
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In Mid 2021, Quartslab (UK) decided to stop its activities.
Since Klove Electronics (Netherlands) has been manufacturing the Quartslab crystals for several years now.The logical step was to have Klove Electronics take over all Quartslab activities,
within the quartz crystal business.
Klove Electronics ships worldwide!
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Nick, try Quartslab in the UK.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 4:38 AM, NICK SV1VS < sv1vs@...> wrote: Hi To ALL. I have a technical problem and I want some advices and/or help. I have a very old radio , hand made from a German man , The KARL BRAUN model SE 401 dig , it is a 10w fm/ssb/cw transceiver and in the fm simplex there is no transmit due to an xtal oscillator? malfunctioning. I need to replace the 10.0874 MHz xtal in the HC49 OR HC51 OR HC48 CASE? and it is impossible to find any ware nearby a place to order the xtal. SO I will be more than happy if anybody has any ideas about where to order , or to by this xtal , I want to have this radio in working order due to sentimental reasons ( it is my? first radio as a radio ham back to 1976. Thank you all. With my best 73's DE Nick SV1VS P.S. if anybody has by any chance this xtal and want to sell it to me OR CAN ORDER IT FOR ME? just let me know. ?
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Nick Try AF4K FOR CRYSTALS? BILL WB2UFC
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On Mar 25, 2024, at 4:38?AM, NICK SV1VS <sv1vs@...> wrote:
? Hi To ALL. I have a technical problem and I want some advices and/or help. I have a very old radio , hand made from a German man , The KARL BRAUN model SE 401 dig , it is a 10w fm/ssb/cw transceiver and in the fm simplex there is no transmit due to an xtal oscillator? malfunctioning. I need to replace the 10.0874 MHz xtal in the HC49 OR HC51 OR HC48 CASE? and it is impossible to find any ware nearby a place to order the xtal. SO I will be more than happy if anybody has any ideas about where to order , or to by this xtal , I want to have this radio in working order due to sentimental reasons ( it is my? first radio as a radio ham back to 1976. Thank you all. With my best 73's DE Nick SV1VS P.S. if anybody has by any chance this xtal and want to sell it to me OR CAN ORDER IT FOR ME? just let me know. ?
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Hi To ALL. I have a technical problem and I want some advices and/or help. I have a very old radio , hand made from a German man , The KARL BRAUN model SE 401 dig , it is a 10w fm/ssb/cw transceiver and in the fm simplex there is no transmit due to an xtal oscillator? malfunctioning. I need to replace the 10.0874 MHz xtal in the HC49 OR HC51 OR HC48 CASE? and it is impossible to find any ware nearby a place to order the xtal. SO I will be more than happy if anybody has any ideas about where to order , or to by this xtal , I want to have this radio in working order due to sentimental reasons ( it is my? first radio as a radio ham back to 1976. Thank you all. With my best 73's DE Nick SV1VS P.S. if anybody has by any chance this xtal and want to sell it to me OR CAN ORDER IT FOR ME? just let me know. ?
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Re: DRAKE TECHNICAL NET ( March 24, 2024 )
Mark,
As a side note, you were still the strongest signal in the net today, 30-35 over S9. ?You were stronger than Jan. ? As I recall, you have an inverted V; in any case whatever you're using, it's definately working!
73,
Evan
On Sunday, March 24, 2024 at 05:04:36 PM EDT, M Gilger <wb0iqk@...> wrote:
We had 34 checking into the net today. The following radio's were used:
TR3 - 1 TR4(x) - 7 TR5 - 1 TR7(x) - 9 Twins - 6
Next week Bill W9MXQ will be our NCS.? 73's, Mark, WB0IQK
|
It seems to me that the Tube Collector's group may have information on how to distinguish the actual manufacturer, done by means of construction, as you point out, and sometimes by markings. Some of the markings may be subtle. I am not sure if this stuff is on their web site or is available to non-members.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/24/2024 1:56 PM, Clyde K2UE wrote: I had the good fortune to spend a good part of my working years as an RF Engineer at RFCOM and Scientific Radio Systems, and designed and supported commercial SSB gear with both "transmitting tubes" (6146, 8122, 3-400Z, 3-100Z, etc) and sweep tubes.? One of the things you have to do in a commercial manufacturing environment is evaluate and approve vendor changes, including tubes.? One of the first things you learn is that the name stenciled on the tube is not always the actual manufacturer, and there were rude surprises when major manufacturers decided not to run a give type (permanent or temporary) and instead bought unmarked tubes from a competitor and mark them as theirs.? We learned to discern details of internal and external construction as a clue to this sort of substitution.
So since we can't really count on the brand name, how would a commercial PA designer approach this:
1.? First match tubes by internal construction details that give away the actual factory:? mica shapes, plate contours, grid leads and welding.
2.? Among the most similar I would want to first match by transconductance using a mutual conductance tester.? If the anode current change for a given grid change matches they will share the load on a large signal basis.
3.? Last I would match by idle current, so they start at similar currents and hence will track each other for best load sharing and linearity.
My opinion, but based on actual experience with many thousands of tubes, YMMV.
______________________________________________________________
Clyde Washburn, K2UE
ClydeWashburn1@... <mailto:ClydeWashburn1@...>
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998
|
Hi Steve,
On 3/23/24 08:39, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
via groups.io wrote:
Stan,
be sure to see the article on Ron's site about getting the
textured finish.? It's fairly easy to do but takes a little
finesse.? You basically use satin black spray paint and drill a
small hole in a nozzle to enlarge it and make it spatter.? I
hold the can a couple of feet away and give it a light spray.?
That's usually enough for the desired result.
73,
Will do.?
It was nice enough here today, low 70's, to work on the MS-4
cabinet.? I sanded it a bit more and started priming it.? I'm not
happy with the results, so I'll probably sand it a bit and re-prime
it when we have another nice day. Definitely not tomorrow.? Suppose
to have 30 mph wind gust during the day and around 45 mph wind gust
in the afternoon.? Supposed to be upper 60's though.
Seems like I heard you check into the Drake technical net today.?
Forget what I was working on at the time, but I checked in later.
73
Stan
KM4HQE
|
Re: Drake Crystals needed
Your right Steve, I don’t need that one Thanks for the sharp eye Ron ? Sent from for Windows ?
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From: Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.ioSent: Sunday, March 24, 2024 3:35 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] Drake Crystals needed ? Ron, are you sure you need a 39.6?? That's the 10m SSB that comes with all of the Twins. I have one, if you do need it. Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana. On Sunday, March 24th, 2024 at 9:54 AM, Ronnie Hull - W5SUM <w5sum@...> wrote:
and here is the attachment I left off in the initial post LOL
Ron
?
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Re: DRAKE TECHNICAL NET ( March 24, 2024 )
My TR-4C tried but just couldn’t get recognized! Maybe next week!
73 -
Hank. WM1V
On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 5:04?PM M Gilger < wb0iqk@...> wrote: We had 34 checking into the net today. The following radio's were used:
TR3 - 1 TR4(x) - 7 TR5 - 1 TR7(x) - 9 Twins - 6
Next week Bill W9MXQ will be our NCS.? 73's, Mark, WB0IQK
|
DRAKE TECHNICAL NET ( March 24, 2024 )
We had 34 checking into the net today. The following radio's were used:
TR3 - 1 TR4(x) - 7 TR5 - 1 TR7(x) - 9 Twins - 6
Next week Bill W9MXQ will be our NCS.? 73's, Mark, WB0IQK
|
I had the good fortune to spend a good part of my working years as an RF Engineer at RFCOM and Scientific Radio Systems, and designed and supported commercial SSB gear with both "transmitting tubes" (6146, 8122, 3-400Z, 3-100Z, etc) and sweep tubes.? One of the things you have to do in a commercial manufacturing environment is evaluate and approve vendor changes, including tubes.? One of the first things you learn is that the name stenciled on the tube is not always the actual manufacturer, and there were rude surprises when major manufacturers decided not to run a give type (permanent or temporary) and instead bought unmarked tubes from a competitor and mark them as theirs.? We learned to discern details of internal and external construction as a clue to this sort of substitution.
So since we can't really count on the brand name, how would a commercial PA designer approach this: 1.? First match tubes by internal construction details that give away the actual factory:? mica shapes, plate contours, grid leads and welding. 2.? Among the most similar I would want to first match by transconductance using a mutual conductance tester.? If the anode current change for a given grid change matches they will share the load on a large signal basis. 3.? Last I would match by idle current, so they start at similar currents and hence will track each other for best load sharing and linearity.
My opinion, but based on actual experience with many thousands of tubes, YMMV.
______________________________________________________________ Clyde Washburn, K2UE
"It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness"
------ Original Message ------
Date 3/24/2024 3:47:57 PM
Subject Re: [DRAKE-RADIO] 6JB6 question.
I agree with using the Sylvania’s. They have already earned their position by their performance. Keep the others as backups.
Steve, Gary, David, Rob, I agree 100 percent and the Sylvania's will indeed remain.? I did a quick search on the subject earlier and wasn't able to find much info on mixing and matching tube finals so I thought the question was worth asking, and this is the place to do it.
Thanks for your willingness to share your experience/knowledge and valuable time.
73
Peter
VE9KX
|
A good move, Peter.
Side note: I remember seeing an article (sadly, I didn't save it) that advised padding the neutralisation cap by a few pF if using RCA finals.? This is not to say that the RCA tubes aren't as good but they are different.? Sylvanias and GE's are the go-to tubes.? They also have identical frames, so it's not surprising.
If you look at the tube from the top, there are some that have cut-outs that are rounded and others that are angular.? If you have a pile of these, you can quickly see the difference.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, March 24th, 2024 at 3:47 PM, Peter A <christinepeterarsenault@...> wrote:
I agree with using the Sylvania’s. They have already earned their position by their performance. Keep the others as backups.
Steve, Gary, David, Rob, I agree 100 percent and the Sylvania's will indeed remain.? I did a quick search on the subject earlier and wasn't able to find much info on mixing and matching tube finals so I thought the question was worth asking, and this is the place to do it.
Thanks for your willingness to share your experience/knowledge and valuable time.
73
Peter
VE9KX
|
Re: Drake Crystals needed
Ron, are you sure you need a 39.6?? That's the 10m SSB that comes with all of the Twins.
I have one, if you do need it.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, March 24th, 2024 at 9:54 AM, Ronnie Hull - W5SUM <w5sum@...> wrote:
and here is the attachment I left off in the initial post LOL
Ron
|
Re: L7/L75 Multimeter on eBay
Not surprised.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, March 24th, 2024 at 12:46 PM, Doug Renwick <ve5ra@...> wrote:
Sold already. ? Free Climbing - The ultimate test of strength and endurance ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via groups.io
Sent: March 24, 2024 7:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [DRAKE-RADIO] L7/L75 Multimeter on eBay ? If you need one, you know how scarce they are. Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
|
I agree with using the Sylvania’s. They have already earned their position by their performance. Keep the others as backups.
Steve, Gary, David, Rob, I agree 100 percent and the Sylvania's will indeed remain.? I did a quick search on the subject earlier and wasn't able to find much info on mixing and matching tube finals so I thought the question was worth asking, and this is the place to do it.
Thanks for your willingness to share your experience/knowledge and valuable time.
73
Peter
VE9KX
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Sage advice.? While the manual says use a brand not all brands are the same..? remember these tubes started life in TV sets..? there are several 6jb6 tubes that are taller than will fit in the set. On the receiving end there is little difference in max vrs sensible power ? At + $30 a tube you will want to save them soo do not tune for max,? tune for longevity.
David Assaf III
W5XU??? VP8RXU
On Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 11:08 AM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via <w1es= [email protected]> wrote: Peter, as Rob mentioned: if you are getting adequate output, I would leave the tubes you have in the rig.? Keep others for spares.
IMO, the concept of having "matched" 6JB6's is overrated.? Given tolerances for other parts in the circuits, you can have one tube doing more "work" than the others, regardless of their DC characteristics.? The important thing to remember is not to overdrive them to try and eke out every last milliwatt from the set. (You'd be surprised how many people do this!).
A TR3/4 is capable of 200W output on 80 and 40 and new tubes can also do this on 20 but you're starting to push them.? 150W out on 15 and 10 is absolutely grand.??
Yes, I've been able to get 200W out on 15m with a fresh set but I throttle back on mine to about 140-150 on 10, going to about 180-200W on 80.? By keeping them below their absolute max, it doesn't matter if one tube is pulling more than the others because they're all within their plate dissipation ratings.? Those are 17.5W per tube in CCS -- you can run more than that in ordinary CW or SSB.
Having said all of the above, it's wise to use tubes that are the same brand or at least of the same mechanical design (it's easy to discern the two types from looking at the top of the frame inside) and within 20% of each other.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow.? Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
On Sunday, March 24th, 2024 at 9:43 AM, Peter A < christinepeterarsenault@...> wrote:
My Drake TR4cw/rit is going in tomorrow to a very experienced tech for a bit of servicing.? If needed, he'll be doing
an alignment for me.? All three of the 6JB6's presently in the rig are the green label Sylvania possibly originals, or at least were replaced
with the manual's recommended Sylvania tubes at one time?? All three are fairly close to 90% or a bit over on my Jackson 658-1 tube tester. I have a selection of 6JB6 tubes, which include anything from Raytheon, RCA, GE, Marconi, Westinghouse, but not another "matched" set of three of any specific brand.? I can match two, but not three.? I do have some that test at 107% +or- and would be able to put three tubes together that test around this 107%.
Do the three 90% green label Sylvania's stay in place or would three of the "stronger" non matching brand tubes, but are heathier at 107% +or- be better, or is it completely unacceptable to install different brand tubes for this purpose.
I was planning on bringing these extra 6JB6's with me tomorrow and asking the tech what he think about it, but
would love to hear what you think of this.? My take on it is you don't mix and match here and therefore leave the Sylvania's in.
Thanks,
Peter
VE9KX
?
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I agree with using the Sylvania’s. They have already earned their position by their performance. Keep the others as backups.
We must consider that any given tube type can vary by 20% or so from the specification and still be 100% good FOR THAT PARTICULAR TUBE.?
It is quite common for different brand new tubes to vary even more than that from brand to brand, which is why it is not a rare occurrence that a given tube can test 135% or more of rating. That is why tube testers have expected values in the data tables as the minimum acceptable value. Almost always you will get test readings greater than the specified reading, regardless which parameter you are testing, unless the tube is truly bad.
Also, emission tests can vary a lot from mutual conductance tests. While mutual conductance has some relationship with emission, it is not a 1:1 relationship.
Emission generally dictates idle plate current draw, pretty important as plate current can vary a lot as emission current varies. Two widely mismatched tubes in a parallel tube amplifier can result in one tube’s drawing excess idle current while the other draws significantly less than rating, causing premature failure of the hot-running tube.
Mutual conductance is the variation in plate current versus the grid voltage, whether that variation is DC, AC or RF. Tube design and condition, as well as circuit factors can cause differences in mutual conductance when measured with DC, AC and RF excitation, though I have found that DC step-and-measure tests produce the same values that I obtain using 5 KHz AC test values from my Triplett 3444 tester.?
Mismatch in mutual conductance does not have too much impact in performance in radio transmitters because the tubes are in generally operated in parallel so their operating currents (and subsequent operating power) are additive, as opposed to the condition seen in a push-pull design, wherein this imbalance can cause amplitude distortion.?
Two types can have the same emission reading and significantly different mutual conductance measurements.
All of the above is the reason that the best tube tester is the properly tuned radio operating into a stable test load.
Gary
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On Mar 24, 2024, at 11:07?AM, Peter A <christinepeterarsenault@...> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 12:43 PM, Rob Sherwood wrote:
With no data to support my suggestion, I would stick with the three Sylvania tubes if the RF output is reasonable. ?Rob, NC0B?
Thank you for your input Rob.? Output is between 165 and 185 watt SSB on my Array Solutions Powermaster II.
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Paul Christensen
Greg W9GB
Ronnie Hull - W5SUM
David