Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 05:18 AM, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 wrote:
These drives also need a pre-loading, which is why the mounting shaft appears to be at a non 90° angle. The bearings must be pressed against the race for the drive to work.?
I don't think so.? Unless the shaft is worn like shown in the article I attached above. The non 90degree mounting shaft is just so it can fit the hole in the chassis and allow it to be bent as needed by manufacturing tolerances. The one I show in my hand seems to work fine out of the radio without any pre-load.? It does feel like it has a little "notchiness" so its not totally smooth. I think.... 73, Gary WB6OGD
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Re: TR7 Service Kit - Extender Boards Needed
Mark:
Jim Shorney can check in later after work....but I do not believe he ever made TR-7 extender cards to sell to others....or even for himself.? That link on Ron's page refers to extender card sets that were made and sold by Bob, W7AVK.? I met him at a PNWVHFS conference in Moses Lake about 10 years ago and he had stopped making them at that time, though I believe he had a few sets left then.? Bob's e-mail address is on his QRZ site.
Mike made a pretty?limited supply of his excellent boards.? I have a set and they are unique in that there is a separate SINGLE extender for each of the TR-7 boards, unlike the ones Drake (and others) were (are?) offering.? Not sure what the current status of availability?is.
73 Peter VE7PS
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 6:58?AM Mark - WB0IQK < mgilger@...> wrote: John,
Have you checked with Jim Shorney?? He makes the extender boards. Go to Ron's web page here:
Mike Bryce, The Heathkit Shop,? also has them. Look on page 14 of the following link on Ron's website.?
73's,
Mark, WB0IQK
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Re: DRAKE MN-2000 Ceramic wafer replacement/repair for Antenna Selector Switch help?
Interesting and timely thread!? I'm working on a homebrew legal-limit antenna tuner that an old friend of mine started building years ago but did not finish before he passed away in 2018.? I need a rotary switch to use as the antenna selector.? I found this one on eBay -- ? -- and it seems like it should do the job.? Would this one be a good choice??
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Re: TR7 Service Kit - Extender Boards Needed
John,
Have you checked with Jim Shorney?? He makes the extender boards. Go to Ron's web page here:
Mike Bryce, The Heathkit Shop,? also has them. Look on page 14 of the following link on Ron's website.?
73's,
Mark, WB0IQK
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Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
That drive looks like it has been worked on before and not properly reassembled. There should be a second part that covers the bearings like in the first photo.
These drives also need a pre-loading, which is why the mounting shaft appears to be at a non 90° angle. The bearings must be pressed against the race for the drive to work.?
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 10:02 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU < billincolo73@...> wrote: Gary, Your drive is similar, but noticeably different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated? Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I can set the Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft. The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive. I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X. Is yours like this?  ? Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used. How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside. Getting the crimp force right is the adjustment. 73, Gary WB6OGD ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
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Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
The bottom line was that this was not documented. One would need to insert the new??layout of the switch onto the latest T-4X schematic. It would probably be simpler to take the B schematic and redo the PTO as the older?bipolar transistor circuit.?
I can remember writing ECO’s back in the day and changing the vellum master schematics, which it appears is how Drake also did changes.?
The filters, although different, looked the same on either schematic.?
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 00:33, wb6ogd < garywinblad@...> wrote: Very interesting Steve.
I happen to have 3 T-4X's here.? Each one has a different mode switch!
They seem to be from 3 different production runs.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
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Re: TR7 Service Kit - Extender Boards Needed
If it counts up but eventually stops, it could be the transformer core (T2101) on the power supply regulator board.? Its a two piece core and I have had the top half fall out, which kills the +24V power supply.
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Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
Very interesting Steve.
I happen to have 3 T-4X's here.? Each one has a different mode switch!
They seem to be from 3 different production runs.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
?
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Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Bill,
I just searched for "vernier".
Look for this one:
Repair and Fabrication of a Preselector Vernier Drive
Shows how one guy fixed his which must have looked like yours.
I am guessing that the T-4XC is the same as my T-4X and T-4XB however.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
On 03/14/2023 10:02 PM Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
Gary,
Your drive is similar, but noticeably?different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated?
Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best?way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto?the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I?can set the?Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft.
The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive.
I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article?you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X.? Is yours like
this?
 ?Sent from my iPhone
Gary,
I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used.
How about some photos.
The Drake drive is crimped together by the
outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the?
adjustment.
73,
Gary?
WB6OGD?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
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Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Bill,
It looks like you are missing half of your drive!
Your photo looks like mine when dissassembled and half is gone.
Look in the Files section, there is an article on how someone fixed his by building the parts
you are missing in plastic (I think).
Your spring must be someones work-around to sort of fix it.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
On 03/14/2023 10:02 PM Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
Gary,
Your drive is similar, but noticeably?different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated?
Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best?way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto?the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I?can set the?Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft.
The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive.
I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article?you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X.? Is yours like
this?
 ?Sent from my iPhone
Gary,
I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used.
How about some photos.
The Drake drive is crimped together by the
outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the?
adjustment.
73,
Gary?
WB6OGD?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Gary, Your drive is similar, but noticeably?different. Yours appears to have the bearings enclosed in a shell that I am guessing provides the needed pressure to force the outer (larger) shaft to rotate when the inner shaft is rotated. Mine (see pic below) as open bearings. In the current state, the small shaft rotates but does not cause the bearings to rotate, which means the larger shaft does not rotate (pic was taken with the bearings removed). Does the large shaft on your drive rotate when the small shaft is rotated? Earlier I referred to crimp pressure. That is probably not the best?way to describe what I was referring to. Inside the large shaft, and at the end of the small shaft there is a spring, which I believe causes the necessary friction to force the ball bearings to rotate. However, it is an extremely stiff spring and I simply cannot get enough force to compress it onto?the shaft that moves the slugs in the coils to the point where I?can set the?Allen screws, so when the small shaft is rotated, nothing happens with the large shaft. The pdf on the drive repair appears to show encapsulated bearings, similar to your drive. I tried searching the files section but didn't find the article?you just sent, or any others on vernier drives. What words did you use in your search?
Here is one out of a T-4X.? Is yours like this?  ?Sent from my iPhone ? Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used. How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD? ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: What are the differances between the T4X and the T4XB
Now I remember the research that I did.?
I compared schematics of the T-4X to the T-4XB and found there were quite a few differences in the keying circuit but it started to look doable. Then I noticed the mode switch differences.?
I’m remembering now that I discovered that it would be very difficult to change the keying circuit because the mode switch is not the same between the older and newer sets.?
The late “A” line has the whole circuit as shown in the “B” schematic — including the different wafers.?
I was going to convert my T-4 until I discovered this.?
73,
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 14:00, David < david.w5xu@...> wrote: While not all inclusive to my experience, it was a noticeable difference from the TR44 which uses the T4X that the SSB use either had to have the key closed or the key jack empty. On the B and C line, this is not the case. As I just finished restoring the R4A and T4X, I will have to remember this. As to an all encompassing list of these changes, I know of none; but it would be handy for those folks who switch around from radio to radio.
Nice piece of history. I guess that Drake did indeed pay attention to user feedback on future designs.
David Assaf III W5XU, VP8RXU
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:53?PM Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 via <w1es= [email protected]> wrote: I can't remember but there could be something on Garey's CD. There are several revisions of the schematic.
Steve Wedge, W1ES/4
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Sent with secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, March 14th, 2023 at 1:11 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU < billincolo73@...> wrote:
Steve,
Is this change documented anywhere?
--
Bill N0CU
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Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Search the Files section, there are a few articles on fixing the vernier drives.
Attached is another on I had on my disk.
All rebuilding and adjustment is done on the drive itself ( the drive is shown in my hand in the previous post).
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
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Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Here is one out of a T-4X. ?Is yours like this?  ?Sent from my iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 14, 2023, at 5:30 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU <billincolo73@...> wrote:
? Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used. How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD? ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
The extender boards are the same as any of the other TR7 boards. The only exception is, of course, the DR7 jumper lard. Good luck with that board as it has active components on it.?
The actual height is irrelevant as long as all are the same length and your extenders are long enough to extend a given board out far enough to allow servicing them.
Gary?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 14, 2023, at 1:36 AM, Tom Evans <Tom.AG9X@...> wrote:
? Jim,
Correct.? My TR-7 came with no noise blanker.? The woodpecker forced me to buy one.? The dummy board remains.? Thanks for pointing out that the dummy board was not part of the extender board set.
73, Tom, AG9X On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:57?PM Jim Shorney < jimNU0C@...> wrote:
The NB-7 dummy board, a.k.a. IF Switching Board, was not a part of the Drake extender kit. It was only used for TR7s that did not have the NB-7 option.
73
-Jim
NU0C
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Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Gary, I am suspecting that there is a crimp force part to the solution, but if so, I think that the crimp force has to be set with the long shaft attached. That is the shaft that moves the coil slugs. If so, then I wonder if there was a special fixture that Drake used to do it. The reason I say that is as soon as I loosened the Allen set screws, the shafts loosened up and they haven't operated properly since. Hopefully I am not the only one to encounter this problem and that there is a workaround for not having the fixture if one was used.
How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside.? Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD? ?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Jim, I searched around but couldn't find anything, Youtube or written
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
How about some photos. The Drake drive is crimped together by the outside. ?Getting the crimp force right is the? adjustment. 73, Gary? WB6OGD?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 14, 2023, at 4:30 PM, Jim W7RY via groups.io <jimw7ry@...> wrote:
?
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Re: Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
Surely there is a youtube video on this somewhere?
73, Jim W7RY
On 3/14/2023 4:49 PM, Bill Leonard N0CU
wrote:
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old
grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After
getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft
spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there
is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out
how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin
the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Need help with the planetary drive on T-4XC
I was trying to free up the RF Drive by cleaning out the old grease. Made the mistake of loosening the Allen screws. After getting the bearings back in their holes, the small center shaft spins freely without turning the large shaft. I noticed that there is a spring on the end of the small shaft, but I cannot figure out how to get enough tension on the center shaft to get it to spin the outer shaft. What am I missing?
--?
Bill N0CU
|
Gary WB6OGD
